Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club (Page 14)

Originally posted by msteiner

For tapering, I have a half marathon weekend that will dictate how the rest of my marathon training is paced.  Seeing that my body reacted so well to the recovery weeks in my plan, I'm trying that out as my taper for this week.  Basically it's similar to my regular training week, just with a lot easier pace (but still some fast stuff) and less volume.

I'll take Friday off though, since the race is Saturday.  

Originally posted by switch

So I'm having some additional reflection on how I've been "doing it wrong" for so many years.

pg 118

A few words of caution regarding how often to repeat identical workouts and monitor progress in a particular type of threshold workout: It's human nature that runners often want to see progress in their workouts and sometimes try to perform a particular workout at faster and faster speeds over the course of a fairly short period of times.  Trying to compete against yourself in this way in inadvisable.;  It doesn't conform to the principle of letting your body react and adjust to the particular type of stress before increasing the amount of stress.  It's better to perform the same workout quite a few times at the same speed, or until race performance indicates that you've reached a higher level.

Haha.  Oh, is that how I should be doing it?  Greeeeeeeeeat.

I just thought it might be important for someone else besides me to have this reiterated, maybe printed off, posted on the mirror in the bathroom, or something...

I think when I was younger I could really get away with it.  Now, getting back into training after kids, I'm realizing things are very different.  I'm going to have to really be patient.  So far I've sucked at that.

If I can get this leg thing under control, I'm going to start training for an early March marathon, looks like Phoenix.  I'm reeeeally trying to take it easy to get this thing licked.  If it's not looking better by the end of October, I'll probably need to full stop the running and put off my marathon attempt until next fall :/

I will be using JD's marathon "A" plan.   I guess I don't exactly understand what kind of weekly mileage I should be aiming for with that, but maybe I've just missed that detail?  I did also find it interesting that he said if you're up to 50mpw, you should start splitting your runs into two a days. pg 258, yep, doin it wrong again:/

Originally posted by switch

Are you talking about your recovery weeks in the 5-15K plan or a different plan?

When I took off the first 10 days after my leg thing, I was literally blown away by how good it felt to run again.  It really hit me that I had not been giving myself enough recovery to really reap the benefits of my training.  I am now going to put in biggish down time periods into my training--even more so than just a normal periodization curve, and see what happens. 

I think this could be one benefit to doing more regular racing; if you taper for those, you're building in forced down time periods quite often.  When I don't race, I don't give myself that same luxury.

Originally posted by msteiner

Different plan.  The marathon plan I'm on.  Next week would normally be my recovery week, but I moved it this week to taper for the half.  I'm thinking it will give me the happy medium between enough rest to be ready yet enough activity to keep me from losing form.

Originally posted by switch

So I'm having some additional reflection on how I've been "doing it wrong" for so many years.

pg 118

A few words of caution regarding how often to repeat identical workouts and monitor progress in a particular type of threshold workout: It's human nature that runners often want to see progress in their workouts and sometimes try to perform a particular workout at faster and faster speeds over the course of a fairly short period of times.  Trying to compete against yourself in this way in inadvisable.;  It doesn't conform to the principle of letting your body react and adjust to the particular type of stress before increasing the amount of stress.  It's better to perform the same workout quite a few times at the same speed, or until race performance indicates that you've reached a higher level.

Haha.  Oh, is that how I should be doing it?  Greeeeeeeeeat.

I just thought it might be important for someone else besides me to have this reiterated, maybe printed off, posted on the mirror in the bathroom, or something...

I think when I was younger I could really get away with it.  Now, getting back into training after kids, I'm realizing things are very different.  I'm going to have to really be patient.  So far I've sucked at that.

If I can get this leg thing under control, I'm going to start training for an early March marathon, looks like Phoenix.  I'm reeeeally trying to take it easy to get this thing licked.  If it's not looking better by the end of October, I'll probably need to full stop the running and put off my marathon attempt until next fall :/

I will be using JD's marathon "A" plan.   I guess I don't exactly understand what kind of weekly mileage I should be aiming for with that, but maybe I've just missed that detail?  I did also find it interesting that he said if you're up to 50mpw, you should start splitting your runs into two a days. pg 258, yep, doin it wrong again:/

Originally posted by popsracer

I think I have had the mentality that if I wasn't doing a workout faster every time I did it I wasn't improving and I became my own worst enemy.  I also think that by following the pace charts and staying at those paces until like Matt says I've proved in a race I'm faster  than the charts is sound advice.  It comes down to trusting that the pace charts are correct for you given your VDOT and sticking with the plan.  Progress will come soon enough.

Are you tallking about the Phoenix race that starts up outside Mesa?  If so, that was on my list last year but logistics didn't work out.  Looked like a great, fast race course.  I love Arizona.  My folks live in Scottsdale during the winter and I try to get down there to visit and get some sun.

Originally posted by popsracer I can't wait to see what your next road 5k time is going to be like.

Originally posted by msteiner

Yeah that's one thing I like about JD.  Think you're faster than the paces you're training at?  Prove it in a race!

Put up or shut up! 

Originally posted by Asalzwed

I really like this.

Races are a dime a dozen anyhoo, earn that VDOT! 

Originally posted by popsracer

I think I have had the mentality that if I wasn't doing a workout faster every time I did it I wasn't improving and I became my own worst enemy.  I also think that by following the pace charts and staying at those paces until like Matt says I've proved in a race I'm faster  than the charts is sound advice.  It comes down to trusting that the pace charts are correct for you given your VDOT and sticking with the plan.  Progress will come soon enough.

Are you tallking about the Phoenix race that starts up outside Mesa?  If so, that was on my list last year but logistics didn't work out.  Looked like a great, fast race course.  I love Arizona.  My folks live in Scottsdale during the winter and I try to get down there to visit and get some sun.

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Do I have this right? You are tapering this week for a HM this weekend, recovering next week (per your marathon plan, since it's already a "recovery" or step-back type of week?)

 

If correct, how far out are you from your marathon? Have you experimented with how long you like to taper before a HM or is this just an educated guess?

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Well, I really don't have a frame of reference on this one, because I've never (well, not since high school anyway) 1) focused on a race this short, or 2) tapered for a race this short, say, in the middle of training for something else.  For HMs and sprint tri's where you're talking 90 min to 2 hours of racing I usually back off the volume about 50%, and generally take two days off completely in the taper week, including the day before the race.  But for "just" a 5K...I'm not so sure the big drop in volume is needed.  I guess we'll find out. 

Originally posted by switch

So I'm having some additional reflection on how I've been "doing it wrong" for so many years.

pg 118

A few words of caution regarding how often to repeat identical workouts and monitor progress in a particular type of threshold workout: It's human nature that runners often want to see progress in their workouts and sometimes try to perform a particular workout at faster and faster speeds over the course of a fairly short period of times.  Trying to compete against yourself in this way in inadvisable.;  It doesn't conform to the principle of letting your body react and adjust to the particular type of stress before increasing the amount of stress.  It's better to perform the same workout quite a few times at the same speed, or until race performance indicates that you've reached a higher level.

Haha.  Oh, is that how I should be doing it?  Greeeeeeeeeat.

I just thought it might be important for someone else besides me to have this reiterated, maybe printed off, posted on the mirror in the bathroom, or something...

I think when I was younger I could really get away with it.  Now, getting back into training after kids, I'm realizing things are very different.  I'm going to have to really be patient.  So far I've sucked at that.

If I can get this leg thing under control, I'm going to start training for an early March marathon, looks like Phoenix.  I'm reeeeally trying to take it easy to get this thing licked.  If it's not looking better by the end of October, I'll probably need to full stop the running and put off my marathon attempt until next fall :/ 

I will be using JD's marathon "A" plan.   I guess I don't exactly understand what kind of weekly mileage I should be aiming for with that, but maybe I've just missed that detail?  I did also find it interesting that he said if you're up to 50mpw, you should start splitting your runs into two a days. pg 258, yep, doin it wrong again:/ 

Originally posted by msteiner Last time I had a recovery week like what I'm doing this week, I felt pretty ready to race. A week is the most I would normally taper for a HM.As far as my plan, what I'm doing is a little more risky. What I'm doing is swapping my rest and build week, so this week i'll recover up to the half, then I'll do the build week I would do this week. So what I have is 4 weeks of building before the next recovery week instead of 3. I'm still 2.5 months out from my full, so I think it will work.

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Yo, Debbie Downer here, just a reminder to try and wrap up Part II/III and move on to Part IV tomorrow-ish.

 

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Yo, Debbie Downer here, just a reminder to try and wrap up Part II/III and move on to Part IV tomorrow-ish.

 

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Oh, I see. Gotcha!

So, you will be building post HM? No recovery?

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

New question/thought for discussion.  I've noticed he doesn't discuss the need for recovery weeks as part of a plan, just in general in terms of a full-season approach.  As I look through the more detailed plans (5K to 15K specifically), there aren't any.

I dunno, it's just been beat into my head +10/+10/+10/-40, repeat, and his approach is nothing like that.

Originally posted by switch

Yeah, what's with that? Dale? Matt? Salty? Ben?

Whadayalldo with that?