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Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed (Page 140)
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 2012-09-24 7:19 PM in reply to: #4123283 |
Master  2238    Dallas |  Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - ClosedToday I started reading "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton. The book is about doping in the Lance era (he was his lieutenant). The book is one of those you just cannot put down, the things that those guys would do to win (including him) are beyond reason. There's a lot of physiology in the book, and one of the things he mentions is that Lance was the pioneer of high turnover in cycling, the reason behind it was that the EPO would increase his cardiovascular/circulatory efficiency by boosting red cell count to almost fifty hematocrit (maximum allowed by UCI). Since muscular capacity was limited he boosted speed by increasing the cadence to 105RPM and that's how, ladies and gentlemen, you get a seven times Tour de France winner. My take on it is that Maffettone training puts a LOT of accent on cardiovascular efficiency and those of us who have been doing both (MAF and high turnover training) are getting a "Lance effect" without even knowing it. It explains why my fat a$$ is able to bike and run at speeds that most guys couldn't do carrying 180lbs. I see myself cycling with dudes that are 150 to 155lbs. and do nothing but cycling six days a week. Today, slow very easy ride after work.
Andy S 9/ B 8/ R 11 Rest 4 Total 28 Time 39:24:20 Edited by ernestov 2012-09-24 7:21 PM |
| 2012-09-24 7:34 PM in reply to: #4425755 |
Master 1780  Boynton Beach, FL | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed ernestov - 2012-09-24 8:19 PM My take on it is that Maffettone training puts a LOT of accent on cardiovascular efficiency and those of us who have been doing both (MAF and high turnover training) are getting a "Lance effect" without even knowing it. By high turnover training, you mean high cadence focus? Any particular workout you recommend for that? On a side note, I receive my wetsuit today, so I think will fill my bathtub and just lie there wityh my wetsuit on and read a book or something... |
| 2012-09-24 7:46 PM in reply to: #4425770 |
Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Samyg - 2012-09-24 7:34 PM Yes, high turnover is high cadence. And that is for both running and cycling. LOTS of workouts but basically make sure you stay above 100RPM on the bike and 90SPM running.ernestov - 2012-09-24 8:19 PM My take on it is that Maffettone training puts a LOT of accent on cardiovascular efficiency and those of us who have been doing both (MAF and high turnover training) are getting a "Lance effect" without even knowing it. By high turnover training, you mean high cadence focus? Any particular workout you recommend for that? On a side note, I receive my wetsuit today, so I think will fill my bathtub and just lie there wityh my wetsuit on and read a book or something... If you're going to read in the tub with the wetsuit, I recommend you get that book that I was talking about, hehe. |
| 2012-09-24 9:09 PM in reply to: #4123283 |
Expert 1109 Guatemala | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Joe and Chris, you guys are running like gazelles and can't wait to see how crush your times in your upcoming marathons! Also looking forward to following Jackie"s first HIM next week and Ernesto's Ironman in a few weeks. Who else has races coming up? Adding my update from my race which got dropped plus a 55 min drainer recovery workout at easy pace today Gabe S 7/ B 13/ R 13 Rest 5 Total 32 Time 42:02:18 |
| 2012-09-24 9:46 PM in reply to: #4123283 |
Expert 1255 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Gabe S 7/ B 13/ R 13 Rest 5 Total 32 Time 42:02:18 |
| 2012-09-24 9:58 PM in reply to: #4123283 |
Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Gabe, did you read my private message? |
| 2012-09-24 10:01 PM in reply to: #4425901 |
| Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed - 49 minutes on computrainer and 50 minute crossfit class Gabe S 7/ B 13/ R 13 Rest 5 Total 32 Time 42:02:18 |
| 2012-09-24 10:52 PM in reply to: #4425921 |
Veteran 445 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed 4 mile run Gabe S 7/ B 13/ R 13 Rest 5 Total 32 Time 42:02:18 |
| 2012-09-25 12:09 AM in reply to: #4425770 |
Master 1609 Gold Coast Australia. | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Samyg - 2012-09-24 7:34 PM On a side note, I receive my wetsuit today, so I think will fill my bathtub and just lie there wityh my wetsuit on and read a book or something...
This was funny! Well, you could do better than reading a book. Maybe some high turnover workout with lots of splashing around? Or total immersion?
45 min bike ride for me this morning. Lots of wind, high turnover, but not so fast. Gabe S 7/ B 13/ R 13 Rest 5 Total 32 Time 42:02:18 Edited by markz 2012-09-25 12:13 AM |
| 2012-09-25 6:29 AM in reply to: #4425999 |
Expert 1480 Somewhere in the Swamps of Philly | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Took Monday as a rest day. This is a down week so I'm flipping around some of the workouts. Plus, I will be in NYC on Thursday and staying a block off Central Park and want to get run in there on Friday morning. Today was 50' run (6 miler). Garmin wasn't charged so I ran by feel. Ran negative splits. Have some lingering issues with my achilles that I need to watch out for. Been stretching and icing a lot, but no matter what I do when I wake up my AT's are tight as board (which goes away once I start moving). Anyone else experience this? Gabe S 7/ B 13/ R 13 Rest 5 Total 32 Time 42:02:18 Edited by JoePetto 2012-09-25 6:31 AM |
| 2012-09-25 6:57 AM in reply to: #4426070 |
Master 1780 Boynton Beach, FL | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Today 2,000 swim intervals (20x100). Went from every 2:30 to every 2:20. Never knew I could miss 10 seconds that much! Wanted to quite after 400, then after 600, then after 625...you get the idea. But felt great after I was done. Tomorrow rest day (Yom Kipur). Decided against working out since I will be fasting from tonight to tomorrow night, and working out might not be the best thing for it, specially without water. So if I underperform on my November race, I will always have my religion to blame... Gabe S 7/ B 13/ R 13 Rest 5 Total 32 Time 42:02:18 |
| 2012-09-25 7:06 AM in reply to: #4426070 |
Expert 2811 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed JoePetto - 2012-09-25 6:29 AM Took Monday as a rest day. This is a down week so I'm flipping around some of the workouts. Plus, I will be in NYC on Thursday and staying a block off Central Park and want to get run in there on Friday morning. Today was 50' run (6 miler). Garmin wasn't charged so I ran by feel. Ran negative splits. Have some lingering issues with my achilles that I need to watch out for. Been stretching and icing a lot, but no matter what I do when I wake up my AT's are tight as board (which goes away once I start moving). Anyone else experience this? Joe I have issues with Achilles tendonitis. When it flares up its all good until the morning and then I am hobbling around like an old man. I will stretch them about hourly during the day and lower my running speed. Also check your shoes. If I wear a flat soled loafer during a flare up, I am in trouble. I will also use an arch support when they act up. My older brother also has the same issue, he wears those socks that make his feet point straight up in the air at night. They are supposed to keep the achilles streached during sleep. He said they help, I've never tried them myself. Ice does not seem to help me . I have been lucky this year, I've only had the issue a couple of times this year after speed work. A massage therapist told me to get one of those rubber surgical tubes and stretch it with that including moving it and rotating it while under resisitance, and then massage the arch periodically during the day. |
| 2012-09-25 7:41 AM in reply to: #4426090 |
| Maple Grove, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed I have AT issues as well. Screwed up my Spring marathon training. Right now much better but still there. I stretch it a little after every run, but not that much. Basically, I just stopped worrying about it. Yes, every morning I wake up and feel like an old man. That's just the way it is if you run and are, well, old. |
| 2012-09-25 8:11 AM in reply to: #4123283 |
Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Horrible track session this morning, pulled out tired (only thirty minutes in out of one hour planned). HR strap went bananas too; need to allow muscles to recover from Sunday's run. Gabe S 7/ B 13/ R 13 Rest 5 Total 32 Time 42:02:18
Edited by ernestov 2012-09-25 8:41 AM |
| 2012-09-25 9:23 AM in reply to: #4123283 |
Expert 1544 Alexandria, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Adding in yesterday's workouts, 5 mile run then 26 mile bike ride. Got in yesterday to see a chiropractor here in town who specializes and apparently helped originally develop ART therapy. I've never been a big believer in chiropractors, never seen one before, and I'm going to wait and see how my body reacts to his "adjustment" yesterday. I decided to go see him somewhat out of curiosity and because he offered to barter with me, ART sessions in trade for goaltending lessons for his son in hockey. At this point I'm not sore or anything yet, but after the amount of cracking and adjusting it felt like he did, I'm a bit worried about it. The nice thing is that he has worked in the past with endurance athletes and top level triathletes, so he has a good grasp on what our training is all about and how it can affect the body. Today's going to be sluggish, heading out for run soon then going to hit the pool. Yesterday evening we took our two boys down to Mpls to see Rush in concert. We all had a great time, the boys loved it and we got home at 1am. I couldn't believe how many complete strangers thought we were the coolest parents ever for taking our boys to that concert!
Gabe S 7/ B 13/ R 13 Rest 5 Total 32 Time 42:02:18 Edited by Climbinggonzo 2012-09-25 9:32 AM |
| 2012-09-25 11:23 AM in reply to: #4426304 |
| Maple Grove, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed 9 miles of what the Hanson's call strength work. (Longer intervals at slower pace than speed work). 2 mile warmup. 2 miles at 1/2 marathon pace. 1 mile recovery. 2 miles again at 1/2 marathon pace. 2 mile cooldown. Felt very good. Did the fast portions at an "aspirational" versus actual 1/2 marathon pace. Heart rate readings artificially high first mile due to cold, so don't have an accurate average heart rate. Gabe S 7/ B 13/ R 13 Rest 5 Total 32 Time 42:02:18 Andy S 9/ B 9/ R 12 Rest 4 Total 30 Time 41:35:29 Mitch S 3/ B 12/ R 10 Rest 4 Total 25 Time 17:40:17 Ernesto S 4/ B 9/ R 12 Rest 5 Total 25 Time 30:17:29 Joe S 1/ B 1/ R 22 Rest 4 Total 24 Time 25:48:51 Jackie S 5/ B 11/ R 7 Rest 9 Total 23 Time 26:22:25 Mark Z S 3/B 11/R8 Rest 3 Total 22 Time 26:25:00 Chris S 0/ B 0/ R 21 Rest 4 Total 21 Time 29:23:50 Samy S 6/ B 6/ R 7 Rest 7 Total 19 Time 22:40:427 Matthews S 6/ B 6/ R 8 Rest 3 Total 19 Time 16:51:06 Charlotte S 2/B 8/R 8 Rest 5 Total 18 Time 12:24 Barry S 1/ B 2/ R 14 Rest 8 Total 17 Time 27:48:11 Jim S 2/ B 78 R 7 Rest 7 Total 17 Time 16:31:10 Scott S 0/ B 0/ R 13 Rest 6 Total 13 Time 19:00 Rachel S 3/ B 5/ R 5 Rest 4 Total 13 Time 10:19:42 |
| 2012-09-25 12:12 PM in reply to: #4123283 |
Expert 1544 Alexandria, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed I'm still trying to nail down running at MAF. I know Ernesto has said before that your MAF heart rate should really be as high as you go during a training run. If I understood correctly, let's say my MAF is 143, then I ought to really avoid any spikes in heart rate well above that. I'm just having a hard time with that, I suppose the easy answer is to slow down, but today's run seems a good example. My avg. HR worked out to exactly 143, but I spiked up into the 150's occasionally according to my Garmin and the graph. It seems my HR is just all over the place, beyond staring at my watch the entire run, what else can I do to get that HR graph more even and not so up/down. |
| 2012-09-25 1:07 PM in reply to: #4426610 |
Expert 2811 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed 12.2 miles on bike 36:56 then I had another blow out, so frusterated. Gabe S 7/ B 13/ R 13 Rest 5 Total 32 Time 42:02:18 had to fix things I got dropped
Edited by JBacarella 2012-09-25 1:10 PM |
| 2012-09-25 1:12 PM in reply to: #4426124 |
Expert 2811 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed chris2533 - 2012-09-25 7:41 AM I have AT issues as well. Screwed up my Spring marathon training. Right now much better but still there. I stretch it a little after every run, but not that much. Basically, I just stopped worrying about it. Yes, every morning I wake up and feel like an old man. That's just the way it is if you run and are, well, old. I deny being old just annually challenged. |
| 2012-09-25 4:20 PM in reply to: #4426872 |
Master 1609 Gold Coast Australia. | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed 12k run this morning in 1:02. Every time I pay attention to the form, the speed increases. This time it was Chi Running again. It's not that this style is more efficient, I just tend to go faster because I think about it. I should do this more often. Gabe S 7/ B 13/ R 13 Rest 5 Total 32 Time 42:02:18 Edited by markz 2012-09-25 4:22 PM |
| 2012-09-25 4:22 PM in reply to: #4427325 |
Expert 1544 Alexandria, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed 9 mile run from this morning then 3250 in the pool this afternoon including 2250 strait swim, 30seconds rest, 500, then 300 drills and 200 cool down. Gabe S 7/ B 13/ R 13 Rest 5 Total 32 Time 42:02:18 Edited by Climbinggonzo 2012-09-25 4:24 PM |
| 2012-09-25 4:30 PM in reply to: #4426730 |
Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed Climbinggonzo - 2012-09-25 12:12 PM Best way to do it is to set up your Garmin to alert you when your HR goes above 142 (143 will make it beep). It is not a black line that you can never go over, but setting the alert will make you aware of the HR spiking up and keep you from going ten beats over your MAF. The longer you use it in training, the more efficient your cardiovascular/musculoskeletal/parasympathetic systems will interact.I'm still trying to nail down running at MAF. I know Ernesto has said before that your MAF heart rate should really be as high as you go during a training run. If I understood correctly, let's say my MAF is 143, then I ought to really avoid any spikes in heart rate well above that. I'm just having a hard time with that, I suppose the easy answer is to slow down, but today's run seems a good example. My avg. HR worked out to exactly 143, but I spiked up into the 150's occasionally according to my Garmin and the graph. It seems my HR is just all over the place, beyond staring at my watch the entire run, what else can I do to get that HR graph more even and not so up/down. Consider it like running an engine at the maximum efficiency power, although it is not the fastest (or the slowest) it is the point in the curve where speed and energy expenditure is more sustainable. You could go slower and go a bit longer, or faster and blow up. It is the best training method I have found when building a diesel engine for Ironman races. Edited by ernestov 2012-09-25 4:31 PM |
| 2012-09-25 4:36 PM in reply to: #4426889 |
Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed JBacarella - 2012-09-25 1:12 PM Yesterday while I was riding my bike down the trail, this one guy approached me (while moving) and offered to pull me. I said no thanks, I'm doing my recovery ride, to what he replied: this is my threshold pace, it really sucks to be old. I thought about it for a while and really, getting old is a gift denied to many. Much less getting to be old AND healthy, so let's embrace aging, and thank God for age groups so we don't have to compete with 25 year olds!chris2533 - 2012-09-25 7:41 AM I have AT issues as well. Screwed up my Spring marathon training. Right now much better but still there. I stretch it a little after every run, but not that much. Basically, I just stopped worrying about it. Yes, every morning I wake up and feel like an old man. That's just the way it is if you run and are, well, old. I deny being old just annually challenged. |
| 2012-09-25 4:52 PM in reply to: #4426090 |
Expert 1480 Somewhere in the Swamps of Philly | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed JBacarella - 2012-09-25 8:06 AM If I wear a flat soled loafer during a flare up, I am in trouble. My loafers freaking kill me. I was walking around my office today in socks and my feet feel fine.
Jim- We are both attorneys - How do I convince my employer that I need to wear sandals or bare feet to work? ADA? |
| 2012-09-25 5:00 PM in reply to: #4427345 |
Expert 1480 Somewhere in the Swamps of Philly | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (4th season) - Closed ernestov - 2012-09-25 5:36 PM I thought about it for a while and really, getting old is a gift denied to many. Much less getting to be old AND healthy, so let's embrace aging, and thank God for age groups so we don't have to compete with 25 year olds! ^^ My wife likes to chide me that I'm the only person she knows who is happy about getting older so that he can move up in age groups. Becoming an adult athlete is really a revelation for me as I was a very average athlete growing up. Played high school varsity baseball, but never had what IT takes for college. I'm a better and faster athlete at 43 than I was at 23 (so long as I am moving forward). Lateral movements like tennis and basketball are killers. One game of pick up football and I'd be down for week. Twenty mile run - no sweat |
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