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2010-06-09 9:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
cusetri - 2010-06-08 5:01 PM
Marvarnett - 2010-06-08 2:42 PM Funny thing is that other than reading what you guys have said about the course, I haven't as much as looked at an elevation map let alone a course map.  Perhaps I should do that before I go up there next week to ride, run and swim the course for a week...

Perhaps...


Chapter 1, The Art of War:

Laying Plans/The Calculations explores the five fundamental factors (the Way, seasons, terrain, leadership, and management) and seven elements that define a successful outcome. By thinking, assessing and comparing these points you can calculate a victory, deviation from them will ensure failure. Remember that war is a very grave matter of state.

Lets not confuse stressing over course changes and squeezy tops, with knowing the terrain before you enter the battle field.  You must, especially for an IM course.  To me, it is the crux of how to attack it, how to distribute your effort, and ignoring it with all the tools at your disposal on the net is borderline foolishness.  Realize that those you will compete against for the few coveted golden tickets to the promise land that is Kona, are keenly aware of the terrain, and both out and back options....the difference is they don't stress over it....they use it to their advantage. 





Great book by the way!

And you are 100% correct.  That is why I will be there all next week riding, running and swimming the course.  Believe me, there will be no pothole I will not see when I'm done.

Where to surge, where to recover, places to pull away so your competition can't see you (out of site out of mind), etc.  Those will all be figured out by Monday after next. 


2010-06-09 10:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
I'm in the the IM Rookies, not competing with you fasties, just in it to finish and have an amazing experience along the way. I will be holding down the fort at the back of the pack!
2010-06-09 10:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
It's funny, I really don't approach IM racing like a competition against others. I don't spen time during the race concerning myself with what anyone's AG is or should I catch them or drop them or whatever. The only thing I can control is me, so my race is made with my preperation, done alone, for hours on end, week after week, month after month. Race day is simply the result of me executing what I have trained, no more, no less. If I have enough energy to be chasing dudes all over the bike course, I must have not well planned my pacing.

Edited by bryancd 2010-06-09 10:34 AM
2010-06-09 12:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
bryancd - 2010-06-09 11:34 AM

It's funny, I really don't approach IM racing like a competition against others. I don't spen time during the race concerning myself with what anyone's AG is or should I catch them or drop them or whatever. The only thing I can control is me, so my race is made with my preperation, done alone, for hours on end, week after week, month after month. Race day is simply the result of me executing what I have trained, no more, no less. If I have enough energy to be chasing dudes all over the bike course, I must have not well planned my pacing.


Agree x100. You race your race...period. That is what you trained for.
2010-06-09 12:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
Monty - 2010-06-09 12:08 PM
bryancd - 2010-06-09 11:34 AM It's funny, I really don't approach IM racing like a competition against others. I don't spen time during the race concerning myself with what anyone's AG is or should I catch them or drop them or whatever. The only thing I can control is me, so my race is made with my preperation, done alone, for hours on end, week after week, month after month. Race day is simply the result of me executing what I have trained, no more, no less. If I have enough energy to be chasing dudes all over the bike course, I must have not well planned my pacing.
Agree x100. You race your race...period. That is what you trained for.


I'm trying to learn and live "leave your ego off the course." I'm a slow biker and runner, hell, I'm just slow, and that damn time and speedometer keeps making me crazy.  
2010-06-09 12:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread

AdCo - 2010-06-09 12:14 PM
Monty - 2010-06-09 12:08 PM
bryancd - 2010-06-09 11:34 AM It's funny, I really don't approach IM racing like a competition against others. I don't spen time during the race concerning myself with what anyone's AG is or should I catch them or drop them or whatever. The only thing I can control is me, so my race is made with my preperation, done alone, for hours on end, week after week, month after month. Race day is simply the result of me executing what I have trained, no more, no less. If I have enough energy to be chasing dudes all over the bike course, I must have not well planned my pacing.
Agree x100. You race your race...period. That is what you trained for.


I'm trying to learn and live "leave your ego off the course." I'm a slow biker and runner, hell, I'm just slow, and that damn time and speedometer keeps making me crazy.  

I raced Kansas this past weekend with my bike computer showing Power, Cadence, and HR.  No time, no speedo.

It helps a lot.  I know my "budget", and made decisions whether to push or let someone go based on that.  The faster guys, are faster than me already.  The pretenders, well, I saw most of them again on the run ( or at the end of the bike leg ) as I passed them back. 

It's not a race to T2, it's a race to the finish line.



2010-06-09 12:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
I have never raced with a speedometer on the bike or GPS on the run. I just watch HR and RPE.
2010-06-09 5:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
coredump - 2010-06-09 1:33 PM

It's not a race to T2, it's a race to the finish line.



Awesome quote. Adding that to my list of things to tell myself during the race.

2010-06-09 7:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
 

I raced Kansas this past weekend with my bike computer showing Power, Cadence, and HR.  No time, no speedo.

It helps a lot.  I know my "budget", and made decisions whether to push or let someone go based on that.  The faster guys, are faster than me already.  The pretenders, well, I saw most of them again on the run ( or at the end of the bike leg ) as I passed them back. 

It's not a race to T2, it's a race to the finish line.



Well stated. I raced Mooseman 70.3 last weekend and my bike computer didn't work b/c of all of the rain and I think it was the best thing that could have happened. I raced by hr and when I got to the run I was feeling great and passed all kinds of people, which was even more fun!
2010-06-09 7:47 PM
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2010-06-09 7:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
so I am not sure why, but i booked at the northwoods for the race and it turns out its a total dump. Really bummed out about this because I stayed at the golden arrow this weekend and it was really nice. Anybody need a place to stay. I can't cancel it but I can transfer the reservation. Its from Wednesday to Tuesday.


2010-06-09 8:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread

The Northwoods is a dump?  Really!?!?  I'm spending a grand on a crap hole of a place?

2010-06-09 8:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
lesleyann - 2010-06-09 8:49 PM so I am not sure why, but i booked at the northwoods for the race and it turns out its a total dump. Really bummed out about this because I stayed at the golden arrow this weekend and it was really nice. Anybody need a place to stay. I can't cancel it but I can transfer the reservation. Its from Wednesday to Tuesday.


There's always camping!

(Wait, so really? You're cancelling? Where are you gonna stay? Isn't everything like, mega sold out by now?).

2010-06-10 5:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
That's the word. I heard it from several people this weekend up there. And consider yourself lucky because I am on the hook for $1500. And you can't cancel but you can transfer the reservation to someone else's name. The crown plaza had rooms last night but they were $409/n with a minimum of 6 nights. OUCH!
2010-06-10 6:25 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
lesleyann - 2010-06-10 6:33 AM That's the word. I heard it from several people this weekend up there. And consider yourself lucky because I am on the hook for $1500. And you can't cancel but you can transfer the reservation to someone else's name. The crown plaza had rooms last night but they were $409/n with a minimum of 6 nights. OUCH!


A group of us rented a house that sleeps 10 and there are only like 6 of us there right now.  I can get you in contact with the girl that is the organizer.  It's a mix of married and single folks, all fairly low key.  I believe each of us paid $600 for the week (Wed - Wed).

Just thought I'd throw that out there for you.
2010-06-10 6:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
The first thing I tell my guys is to never have mph on their bike computer.  NEVER.  There is no need for it and it does nothing to help you.  It's usually their biggest hurdle.  They would rather do 16 x 400 at 5K pace than not have a speed reading.

I find it funny.  I have focus on lap power, current power and cadence.  That's it.

And like Bryan said, let the race come to you.  I will race mine and you race yours.  I will add that the only time to race an IM is at mile 20 of the run.  But then it's a race against your brain, not necessarily the person with the number on their calf close to yours.


2010-06-10 6:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
Dream Chaser - 2010-06-09 9:14 PM

The Northwoods is a dump?  Really!?!?  I'm spending a grand on a crap hole of a place?



I would say it's a 2 1/2 to 3 star; depending on which room.  Our room last year was OK but the pervious years room had issues.  The Northwoods is one of the most convenient places in town.
 
I will NO longer recommend any thing in a public forum after the JeresyMan.  My standards and comfort levels are far too different than most.  Talking from a guy that spent many years in the military field and in third would countries.



2010-06-10 6:42 AM
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2010-06-10 6:45 AM
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2010-06-10 6:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
I am not going to sit a defend this statement.

 
I use MPH and RPE.  It works for me.  Maybe I am just one outside of the box.
 
Same as Power and HR works for others.  Oh yeah I use HR as well for added check. 
 
In my opinion yes “MY opinion” nothing wrong with using MPH, but train that way.  Know what MPH you can maintain well on flats hilly or windy courses.  It all adjustable (variable based on conditions) depending on the course.
 
Let the race come to you.  I heard that so many times.  Not sure I fully agree.  Maybe for the first timer Ironman triathlete or really inexperienced. 
 
Yeah you don’t have to agree with me.
2010-06-10 7:20 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
Thanks for the offer. I listed my reservation on craigs list so if someone bits, I would be interested.

There are just so many nice hotels up there, its just hard to believe they picked that one as the host. I am sure its fine but everyone has there own level of comfort. I may be a bit more high maintenance in this department.


2010-06-10 7:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
James, I think the point is that mph is likely the most variable way to quantify current output during a race or training. Power is the most consistent gauge for effort, follwed by HR andthen RPE if I had to rank them. MPH is the most variable based on course and conditions, mostly course. It's true you can try and estimate what your average pace might be for a given route, but then conditions that day might alter that and now you are doing all sorts of mental gymnastics to figure out what your pace should be. Power is pretty pure and simple. HR will be effected mostly by conditions, but HR doesn't care if you are going up hill or downhill or flat or into a headwind, it's simply a measure of effort based on % of threshold. And that's the rub, violate for too long a % of aerobic threshold for too long during an IM and you will have problems. If you can somehow manage it, that's cool, but for most, myself included, it's not the easiest way to approach bike pacing.

And in regards to "let the race come to you", well, I think it's fair to say I actually really do race Ironman from the front, and even I do not "race" other people per se as I mentioned above. I think the meaning of the term validates what I said, there's a maximum effort you can put forth and complete the race as fast as you can. It is what it is, it's not some variable that suddenly changes race morning becasue some guy in your AG rides by.
2010-06-10 7:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
bryancd - 2010-06-10 8:27 AM

And in regards to "let the race come to you", well, I think it's fair to say I actually really do race Ironman from the front, and even I do not "race" other people per se as I mentioned above. I think the meaning of the term validates what I said, there's a maximum effort you can put forth and complete the race as fast as you can. It is what it is, it's not some variable that suddenly changes race morning becasue some guy in your AG rides by.


Exactly.  By 'let the race come to you' I mean race the way you trained.  There is nothing new that shows up just because you have a bib number on.  Let the day come to you  just like all the hard work and effort you've been putting in to get to that starting line.
2010-06-10 7:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread

This the best blog entry I've read this year.  It's about the nuts and bolts that put together make "The Successful Triathlete":  http://elizabethfedofsky.blogspot.com/2010/06/on-success.html

I stole the link from Sally, another BT'er. 

2010-06-10 8:00 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
Dream Chaser - 2010-06-10 6:42 AM

This the best blog entry I've read this year.  It's about the nuts and bolts that put together make "The Successful Triathlete":  http://elizabethfedofsky.blogspot.com/2010/06/on-success.html

I stole the link from Sally, another BT'er. 



Wow. Thanks Bobby and Sally for finding that. That's Dan's coach, isn't it? I met her in Clearwater in 2008. I can honestly say that I can apply all 13 of those attributes to myself, without exception. I never thought of them in totality like that before.

1. Yep, I do every workout he gives me without question and do it as perscribed.
2. Yep, I train everyday, every week, every month, all year round.
3. Yep, I decide I am going to qualify for Hawaii and then train to that level.
4. Yep, I am self motivated.
5. Yep, I work so hard and everyone tells me I make winning look easy. It's not.
6. Yep, I am very calm and focused on race day.
7. Yep, I never dwell.
8. Yep, I am super consistent with diet and hydration.
9. Yep, I'm a control freak and focus only on that which I can control.
10. This one I don't have a lot of experience with as I have never had a major injury (knock on wood)
11. Yep, my rcae expectations are soley based on my training results.
12. Yep, that's why I have a coach, to make me work the things that aren't working.
13. Yep, I do this for me and if i never reaced again or received praise for my results, i would still be out there training evryday.

Edited by bryancd 2010-06-10 8:20 AM
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