Tri Mark's Madness Group-Closed (Page 15)
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() willrunforchocolate - 2011-04-20 5:15 PM OK, am I the only one who has some "off season pounds" to get rid of?? I am about 8 pounds over my usual weight, and I probably could even go a few pounds lower than that. I have TRIED to watch my food for several weeks, but unfortunately I am just watching myself shove more food in my mouth. (I confess to being an emotional eater and I really struggle with dieting.) Anyone up for a "get down to racing weight" challenge? Or maybe we could support each other as we concentrate on good nutrition as well as our physical training?? I am open to any tips and suggestions! ~Jacqui Sure, I am up for it! I survived tax season and have once again rejoined society |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() mwp1054 - 2011-04-20 7:16 PM I wouldn't taper much for those as the total workout time is probably no longer than you are scheduled for. The challenge is really a matter of how intense you actually race. If you are running/riding at race pace, you are working a lot harder than a long weekend run/ride. You need to make sure you allow for the recovery on the back side. Shorten up and avoid high intensity for a couple days. Be readdy to be fully engaged for the long workouts the next week. Racing is fun, but you have to make sure you don't do too much of it when you start doing longer distances. The demands of the training really require a lot of your attention. What I chose to do this year is bunch longer races together, so that at my peak of fitness, I am doing races of similar distances with just a few weeks in between. I'll do Racine mid July, Steelhead mid August, and a half marathon two weeks after Steelhead. That gives me just enough time to recover as they are far enough apart, but close enough together that I won't lose peak fitness levels. Then I'll go full steam towards the Chicago Marathon 6 weeks after that stretch. I forgot to mention that, since I'm retired, my long workouts are scheduled for midweek - so I'll still be able to get those in. Boy, that's some schedule you've got. Makes me tired just reading about it. I just read a bunch of last year's Racine race reports - sounds like it was awful - rain and then high heat and humidity. Denise |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() LadyNorth - 2011-04-21 7:39 AM I forgot to mention that, since I'm retired, my long workouts are scheduled for midweek - so I'll still be able to get those in. Boy, that's some schedule you've got. Makes me tired just reading about it. I just read a bunch of last year's Racine race reports - sounds like it was awful - rain and then high heat and humidity. Denise I've got a bunch more on the schedule, including volunteering at IM WI so that I can get entered for 2012, and cheering my wife on, which is a whole weekend ordeal. I bunch it all together so that I can train optimally and then compete when I'm at my absolute best. I have a couple shorter races in May and June, but I will likely actually do a long ride after both of those as the rides are only 17 miles. By end of May, all of my rides will exceed 60 miles and will have high intensity of at least 15 miles, and high z2 power for 20 more. I learned last year that by training for longer distances and racing some shorter races, I was not really prepared to do well in the short races. I was used to metered efforts over very long periods, and sprints were anything but that. This year I'm training hard at sprint efforts, and then crank it up from there. As for Racine, we had about 40 people from our club racing, and will again this year. It really depended on your wave. Some were off on the course when it all came through, some were in transition, etc. It was incredibly brief, but then the heat came in. Steelhead was similar last year as it rained from 5:30 to 6:45, and I didn't go off until 8:30, so I sat in Lake Michigan floating around and swimming to stay warm from 7:00 to 8:15. Not the ideal way to start your day. By the time I hit the bike it was 85 and the steam was rising, and it hit 90 on the run. Good fun. Word to the wise with wave starts. I ruined a race by throwing away the first half with a bad mood by being ready to go at 7:00. I knew my wave was at 8:30, but was at the start line watching the other waves go off. That's a bad deal. Time your hydration and nutrition and set your mind that your wave start is the time to go. If you have a friend going off way in front of you, it can be a huge distraction to hang out at the start too much before you go. You can spend your mental energy early and ruin your race.
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Mark, Do you know how they assign waves at Racine? I had assumed I'd be in the last wave (because of age) but after reading the race reports, that may not be the case. |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I don't know specific to Racine, but in general, the WTC events you'd be in an early wave. They generally put out the smallest few waves early. At a few of their events they put out the 50+ men and women together or right next to each other as they are smaller waves. Then they put out the women's waves, and then the male waves from oldest to youngest. This is kind of counter intuitive, as it creates a ton of traffic on the bike course. I was passing females and the last wave was a full 40 minutes ahead of me. By the end of the bike course, I was having to go 4 and 5 wide to pass, which is really nasty. The rationale for this, however, is that if you send off the slower waves first, the street closures are minimized from a time of day perspective. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Oh boy. That's good to know so I can be mentally prepared if that happens. I have been in one race where all the women went before the men so I kind of know what that's like. I would look behind me and not see anyone and a second later someone would speed by. I love those "whirring" wheels a lot of the guys have - you can hear them coming. I'm very good about staying way to the right - but I feel sorry for anyone behind me at a corner (although I'm practicing to not have to slow so much at corners). |
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New user ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() LadyNorth - 2011-04-21 6:43 AM Oh boy. That's good to know so I can be mentally prepared if that happens. I have been in one race where all the women went before the men so I kind of know what that's like. I would look behind me and not see anyone and a second later someone would speed by. I love those "whirring" wheels a lot of the guys have - you can hear them coming. I'm very good about staying way to the right - but I feel sorry for anyone behind me at a corner (although I'm practicing to not have to slow so much at corners). my first tri i did i hear those discs coming by and go "what the heck are those!". They def dont sneak up on you. They are bold as they fly by! My goal is to always beat as many people on the $$ bikes with disc wheels! Just cuz im jealous that i dont have that kind of set up! One day! |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hey Jacqui, I'm happy to be support for good nutrition! I was about 11 lbs up from my lowest weight (which is still 10 lbs above where I want to be ultimately) when I started training in October. I'm down 8 from that and feel good, since my lowest weight was at the end of P90X last summer. Let me know if you have any nutrition questions. -Henry willrunforchocolate - 2011-04-20 7:15 PM OK, am I the only one who has some "off season pounds" to get rid of?? I am about 8 pounds over my usual weight, and I probably could even go a few pounds lower than that. I have TRIED to watch my food for several weeks, but unfortunately I am just watching myself shove more food in my mouth. (I confess to being an emotional eater and I really struggle with dieting.) Anyone up for a "get down to racing weight" challenge? Or maybe we could support each other as we concentrate on good nutrition as well as our physical training?? I am open to any tips and suggestions! ~Jacqui |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Tried practicing this technique in Master's class this morning. It was hard to apply the new concepts w/out doing the drill where you isolate your forearm by hanging it over a lane divider, and I was in class so I couldn't do that, but I think it made a difference! I swam much longer distances and didn't get as out of breath as usual. I was circle swimming with 2 others and it seemed I could have gone a bit faster than either of them, and usually we seem to have about the same pace. I am definitely going to keep working on this! I did notice that my shoulders got a lot more tired & tense though because with always keeping my elbows higher (not stretching out as far under water) my shoulders never relaxed. I will pay special attention to this next time I'm in the water. Thanks for the link Mark! kathy caribe - 2011-04-19 9:12 PM +charged - 2011-04-18 7:18 AM Mark - Awesome showing by the whole fam! Congrats on the PR with challenging conditions. Very cool that those you love are out there with you. Also - thanks for the link: http://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/Swimming/How_To_Pull_Underwater_2009.html Watched and incorporated that into my swim yesterday.. Totally changed my stroke in the water, and paid off well. I could feel less resistance immediately. Now I just have to make it habit. Used muscles I haven't used before as well..
linfieldpt - Sweet victory for sure, Congrats. I look forward to reading the RR. Jacqui – awesome deal on the pace group thing. Sounds like fun, and a challenge Hope everyone else got in some quality training this weekend. Happy Monday.. x2 on the link. I swam AAU as a kid (and then masters) and we were always taught to "s" under your body. I tried this method my last workout and after decades upon decades of swimming one way it is going to take a while to teach this old dog new tricks, but I'm up for it. Thanks again, Mark for the link! |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Henry, I've noticed that the natural tendency when doing this is to "shorten up", or not fully extend the arm during recovery and extension. You need to make sure that you don't lose focus on reaching from the hip as you extend out, and that you keep your timing right. I believe very strongly in front quadrant swimming. That means both hands are simultaneously in front . It's almost like a catch up stroke where you touch both hands together. Your extended arm stays extended as your recovering arm moves forward and begins the process of the entry. At that point the extended arm is now catching and pulling backwards (with a high elbow). This lengthens your stroke, minimizes the number of strokes it takes to cover the same distance, and minimizes drag. |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Did anyone work like an animal today? I know I did. Today was track day as I cram for this half marathon a week from Sunday. 15' W/U 8x400m (1:35-1:40 per lap) coach gave me the option to run or walk 400 in between. I walked half and ran half this time, as I was fearing the final portion of the run Rest of time, Tempo Run @ T pace of 8:00 or under (about 19 minutes). Total run 1:15:02 T pace would not normally scare me, but most of my track workout end with easy cool down after the sprints for like 10 minutes. It's an entirely different thing doing T pace after that workout. I did manage to hold 8:01 on rolling hills, but I had to really kick at the flat on the end for the last 2 minutes! 45 minutes of strength at the gym and I'll be done for the day.
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New user ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() on paper today im supposed to knock out a tempo run and weights with some stretching. been a long work week! Hope i can get my butt to the gym afterwork.
Looks like i'll have to do the run on the treadmill |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() mwp1054 - 2011-04-21 12:48 PM I've noticed that the natural tendency when doing this is to "shorten up", or not fully extend the arm during recovery and extension... That was exactly my experience, my strokes were shorter, stroke rate went up, I was slower and my bilateral breathing was messed up. Today I went back to primarily concentrating on full extension and long strokes and secondarily thinking about the high elbows - and things fell back into place. I'm not much faster, but I feel like I am using way less energy with the high elbows. Also went for a short two mile run after the swim. Three weeks ago, that little run was taking me about 20 minutes - today I did it in 16:42, and half of that was with a 30mph head wind and driving snow in my face to the point I could hardly get a breath. Mark, I think your speed interval workouts are paying off - I don't think I would have gotten that much speed increase by just runnning further and further each week... thanks! Now if only I can get that kind of breakthrough in the pool. -Ron |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Thanks Mark, "catch-up" was one of the drills I chose to work on today, so that's good! Hopefully I can get used to this new technique by May 7. mwp1054 - 2011-04-21 2:48 PM Henry, I've noticed that the natural tendency when doing this is to "shorten up", or not fully extend the arm during recovery and extension. You need to make sure that you don't lose focus on reaching from the hip as you extend out, and that you keep your timing right. I believe very strongly in front quadrant swimming. That means both hands are simultaneously in front . It's almost like a catch up stroke where you touch both hands together. Your extended arm stays extended as your recovering arm moves forward and begins the process of the entry. At that point the extended arm is now catching and pulling backwards (with a high elbow). This lengthens your stroke, minimizes the number of strokes it takes to cover the same distance, and minimizes drag. |
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Member ![]() ![]() | ![]() Mark, it sounds like you had an awesome track workout today! I did not workout like an animal but, despite having a nasty cold I did run and swim. I just ran 4.5 miles at a fairly easy pace (my knee keeps acting up so I did not want to push it) and then swam 650 yards. I started eliminating my "breaks" at the end of each few laps. If I feel winded (which I still do often) then I switched to a side stroke or back stroke rather than stop completely. The swimming is coming along... |
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Member ![]() ![]() | ![]() QueerDrummer - 2011-04-21 1:33 PM Hey Jacqui, I'm happy to be support for good nutrition! I was about 11 lbs up from my lowest weight (which is still 10 lbs above where I want to be ultimately) when I started training in October. I'm down 8 from that and feel good, since my lowest weight was at the end of P90X last summer. Let me know if you have any nutrition questions. -Henry
Henry, Do you have any particular eating plan that you follow? I don't eat wheat and TRY to go somewhat easy on processed carbs (except immediately before, during and after exercise), but I struggle with carb cravings and then going crazy eating junk at night. You've done an awesome job getting down to your racing weight. I am sure you can maintain your loss for your race in just a few weeks. That is exciting!
Jacqui |
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New user ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Mark, couldn't keep up with your studyly track workout!
only made it a 40 min tempo run 10min WU 20min build up to 6:40 pace 10 min CD Legs felt tired. I trained through a HM last week and ran 3 days already this week...might need a day off. Long run this weekend. |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Jacqui, I think you'd benefit from some of Matt Fitzgerald's books. There are just a few basic steps that you really need to look at. The challenge is not to deprive your body if you're training under heavy load. I define heavy load as more than 1.5 hours per day. If you are under that, I think it's much easier to work at a deficit. If you are over that, you have to be very careful about creating a deficit. For instance, I want to race about 6 pounds lighter than I am right now at my A race. I have to lose it either VERY slowly between now and Aug. 14, or quickly in the week leading up to the race in my taper mode. Either is possible. What is not possible today is to work at a 300+ calorie daily deficit. I have to make sure I am repairing my body in the build phase. So let's look at your eating carbs before and after workouts. You have about 2 hours of fuel in the tank before you start the workout and before you take in any calories. Your body is smart. If you take in 200 calories, then go run 30 minutes, your body will use the cheap carbs you just gave it as fast as it can before it looks to the reserve tank. In this case, because you at the carbs, the reserve tank is stored glycogen in the muscles. We have not even begun to think about burning fat (our ultimate goal). If you don't eat those carbs right before the workout, your body will burn a combination of the glycogen and stored body fat, depending on the type of exercise you are doing and the intensity. When going long and slow (zone 2 HR), you are primarily burning fat for fuel, and some glycogen. If you go higher intensity, you are burning glycogen primarily, then fat when it's exhausted. I believe very strongly in the eating afterwards to allow your body to repair itself adequately and replenish the stored glycogen. This requires a balanced approach, however. You need protein and carbs. But not just any carbs will do. You need "resistant carbs", which are whole grain, leave you feeling full, and don't break down rapidly in your system. You can do some research on that. If you like cereal, look at Fitzgerald's quality score system. It's eye opening. Finally, the late night carb thing, you just have to ditch it. That's my issue. Not necessarily late night, but mindless eating because I'm not being pulled 1000 directions at once, my body is slowing down, but my mind has all sorts of things to think about and nothing do to. So eat!!!. Horrible habit. The only way I have had success with beating that habit was to make sure that I write down everything that goes in my mouth. By doing that and tracking calories burned, I have a bar graph on Training Peaks that shows me my daily deficit. I want to win the battle EVERY DAY, even if only by 100 calories or staying neutral. A footnote to that is that the Garmin grossly overestimates calories burned. Take 20-30% off to be safe. It's amazingly inaccurate on the bike where I can now measure within 1% accuracy on calories because the power meter tells you how much work you've done. Anyhow, I really recommend the quick start guide by Fitzgerald. If you're not working out more than 1.5 hours a day you can do that diet. If you are, you need to modify very specifically and we can work through that. I did it for 8 weeks in the winter and dropped 8 pounds fast. I've put a little back on in muscle as I've lowered my body fat percentage, but I'll take that conversion as long as it's in my legs where it helps. |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() If you didn't take down time this week after your race last week, you should take the weekend off or do nothing intense. Swimming or easy biking would be better for you than running. |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Keep it up Jacqui, you're getting there with the swim. I gave a guy in masters a tip the other day. He was working his as$ off in the pool and going nowhere. I told him to stop kicking. Kick only for balance. Kicking will not help you much with speed, it only really helps in sprints under 100m. What it does do is get your HR up, and if you're a poor swimmer, makes you think about one more thing. Just relax and focus on the top half of your body, drag the feet along. Use a bouy if you have to and just pull. It allowed him to make it through a workout at Masters for the first time ever. |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Well done Ron. Running after a swim will typically be very slow and difficult anyhow. I have a long/fast run this weekend, for instance, and since I'm just over a week away from a key race, my coach instructed me not to swim Saturday masters (she coaches it) because swimming 4500m then trying to do a long run near race pace would leave me disappointed. That's a huge drop in pace for you, keep it up. Changing intensity (increasing) does work. Not only will you go faster, you will change the shape of your legs and you will go farther. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm feeling a little bit frustrated right now. Since my HIM last month, my riding has been feeling good. I've been happy with it and I've been enjoying my training in general. The thing is, for the past two weeks even though I feel like I am putting in the effort, my heart rate does not agree (yes, zones were determined by testing). I've been through this before and coach said not to worry about it but I am worried. What causes this sort of mismatch between perceived effort and measured effort such as heart rate? |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm lacking a little information that would help. Is your HR out of whack high or low relative to your RPE? Do you train on the bike with power? Do you have speed zones established and are you tracking with them? |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() mwp1054 - 2011-04-22 8:18 AM I'm lacking a little information that would help. Is your HR out of whack high or low relative to your RPE? Low. I feel like I'm working but my heart rate indicates otherwise. Do you train on the bike with power? Do you have speed zones established and are you tracking with them? No power meter. |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() My hunch is that you didn't fully recover from your last race. I don't recall if you've done that distance before, but it sounds to me like your muscles may still have micro tears that didn't heal. I went through that bit after IM. I felt just fine by Wednesday, so I started running again. I wasn't tearing it up or anything, just 5k here and there. I did a 40 mile bike with a friend and I felt like I was working my as$ off. I wasn't. I did a half marathon and I was working my butt off, but really my legs were just dead. If it's a consistent thing, I strongly suggest a "reset". You have a coach, so I'd discuss it with him/her too. What I mean by reset is a week of different type of training. I do the elliptical machine when I'm tweaked or on rest weeks. I don't do strength that involves my legs, just core. Different things than you normally do. Then come back after 5 or 6 days of that reset and "pop". Higher intensity to get your body right back into rhythm. Redo baseline tests like 5k with HR. Time trial on the bike. Reset your baselines and test them again in a month. I think the risk for you if you don't do something to change the pattern is that you could get injured. Worse yet, if you're just not getting your HR near where it needs to be, your time spent training is really not all that effective. It's a shame to train that much and not get the benefits. I caveat all of this by saying it's just my opinion based on similar experiences and you should talk to your coach, but it really screams rest and recovery to me. That's the challenge of a hard early season race. |
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