Fast Twitch Tri-FULL (Page 15)

Fluids on a sprint?  (I'm going backwards here, so i'm not sure form whom this topic was hatched, but anyhow......)

I will work my way into a bottle of HEED before the race, and then on the bike there will just be a bottle half-full of water.  I do the half-full thing just in the spirit of "less weight", as experience has shown me that I don't even make it through 10oz of water.  (If I really followed the less-weight spirit, I would have the bottle barely 1/3 full.)

I will add that anything presented here shouldn't be considered a "guideline" or a "rule to follow".  My protocol has evolved over many years and many races in which I find I can do fine with minimal hydration on a sprint, and it also hinges tightly on how quickly I can do a sprint.  Were I a super-stud at sprints, I would carry no water on the bike; were I still pushing at the edges of developing my speed, it might be a whole bottle.

There was a thread a few days ago on the main forum about water during a (i forget which) a 5km run or the run portion of a sprint triathlon.  FWIW, I DO use aid stations on a sprint run, at least when the temp is above 60, I would guess.  I don't stop and try not to even slow down, and about 75% of the time it is for dousing purposes, but still -- I value the presence of aid stations on sprint runs!

MIKE and MATT -

Nifty photo, and the thought that went with it, Mike.  And Matt -- I love the "...ROCKED the return leg" comment!

Did you fare okay through all the "atmospherics" the past few days, Mike?   Got power?

DAN -

Yo!  Glad you're still with us!  ( You were conspicuous in your absence for 6 or 7 days, says old Mother Hen here!)

Your protocol for intensity is a good one, especially the run.  Back a few years ago I was doing intervals on the 'mill, but I have dropped them completely.  I think i will add them back on, however, but very judiciously.  Ther problem for me is that intervals often compromise my Achilles or hamstrings, so it can become a sub-zero-gain situation for me.  For the most part, my intensity comes from race-distance temp rides and runs, meaning if an oly ois coming up, I will do a 40km race-pace tempo ride, and a 10km race-pace tempo run -- and often several of each of those for any given important oly.  That is a very uncreative way to do speedwork, but itis asafest by far for my beleagured body!

MATT -

Here's to an ah-ha moment:

I was re-reading your bio, realizing that I STILL haven't given it the attention it so richly deserved, and when i came to the mention of Mayflower I thought --- I just saw that somewhere.  I thought a bit and realized that it was likely when i was prowling around the capstone site last night for my photos from Mainiac.  So I went there, scrolled down, and fhere it was.  (I am just soooooo pleased when my memory actually works well -- or at all!)

Of course, that then lead to finsing the photos of you --- and boy, did you ever have active workers from Capstone THAT day!  There were only about ten of me from mainiac, and some people had even less, so you at Mayflower draw the really long straw.

ANYHOW, it's a wonderful collection of you in action, catching all sorts of aspects of your day.  Neat stuff. 

Of course, that process all took time............and I now have to leave for the day...............but when I return my first oder of business will be to comment on the rich lode that is your bio!

As for the Wayland H-M ---- are you ready?  Mostly?  I know you are kinda conncerned about your trianing, but if nothing else it will let you know how deep you can go and what you can pull out of the hat.  At this stage of a season, with nothing coming up to worry about, one of thsoe "reach" races is not a bad idea.  Some people surprise themselves by what they can pull off with less-than-textbook training, and given your enthusiasm and all, that might well be you.  I'm sorry your "LSD partner" isn't with you for this --- but maybe she and the three kids can be Support Crew Nonpereil!

see you this evening!

During race season, I generally do at least one session per week of speed intervals.

For the swim which I do twice per week, at least one of those session will include 8-10 50 meter sprints.  So that's about 400-500 meters out of the 1500-2000 I'll do during that session.  Depending on the plan I'm following, sometimes both weekly swim sessions will include them.  

For the bike, if I'm riding outside, I don't usually have a plan other than riding around zone 3 and hitting AT a few times.  If I ride inside, it will always incorporate a few speed intervals.

We did fine...just lots of loud noises as rain and debris was beating off our siding and roof Tuesday night.  We're REALLY lucky obviously.  Power never went off, had internet and satellite the whole time, plus we were well stocked with beer. 

x2 on the beer.  We popped them open the minute power went out on Monday!  Finally back on, thank goodness.  Cranked a fire, the kids collected all our flashlites and we had a great time, given that trees were cracking and falling EVERYWHERE.  We were lucky, compared to many, as we had no real damage.

Actually got a mid-day run in on Monday, and by the end I was starting to fly to get out of harm's way.  Talk about LT...

Mike, where are you located?  I don't recognize from your handle.

EDIT: Baltimore, I'm now remembering... Spent enough time in Philly that I should have remembered that earlier.  You guys took it much harder than here in MA, for sure.  Glad to hear nothing too terrible happened.

M

Wow you guys keep this thread rolling I'm not sure where to start.

I guess with the simplest:

Drinking on a sprint: Always green gatorade or blue powerade. I started with a bottle on the down tube but during my second race I went to put it back in the cage and while doing so ended off the road and through the woods exterra style. Luckily I recovered and everyone around was cheering me on. Since then I have zip tied my cage between the arrow bars (why learn better bike handling skills right, LOL ) and don't usually drink much out of it until just about T2 and then maybe a big drink just before I leave T2 and then nothing during the run. I also make sure I'm well hydrated before the race.

Wet suit: I haven't had a race yet that I didn't sit down to take my suit off for. Maybe I will cut the legs shorter this year.

Adding Intensity: I have not done it yet in my short tri career. My problem is that I don't ever train consistent enough to add Intensity to my program. I'm currently training for a Dec. 16 13.1 and haven't missed a scheduled day yet, yes I know it has only been 6 workouts but I will take that. So if I can complete the short 8 week plan mostly I will then think about intensity or the "icing" for the run. This plan has me doing track work 3 times but I think I will spend that time swimming. After my HM I would like to try to get going on a bike plan ( maybe Jorge's )for the trainer and then ride hard for my outside rides weather permitting . Swimming starts soon with the Portland Tri Club every Saturday and I'm sure I will get plenty of feed back there. Like I said consistency is more important than intensity for me.

Question for the group: On my run last night I was thinking. How tight should I hold my hands? Mine are usually not quite clenched but pretty tight. Is this waisting energy? Second my shoulders, I hold mine pretty high and stiff and was wondering how relaxed they should be. Anyways I will experiment with this on my training runs leading up to the HM.

MATT -

Your enthusiasm for this stuff is palpable, and it was such a hoot to read you whole bio -- but especially "Story".  I have read about 150 bios in my mentoring days, but i can't think of one that captures raw, unfettered joy a S/B/R as does yours.  Best line has to be "....all the while pushing until you're drooling on your Garmin and seeing spots".  And right after that is accounting of the back-and-forths between you and Kim, as you launched into this in tandem.  Interspersed thoughout are a pound here......and few there.......and a couple more elsewhere -----and all the while the kids are watching their parents reinvent themselves right before their eyes.  All in all, just way too much fun!  (And we should all be so fortunate!)

As for "being a slow guy who unfortunately likes speed", well, i saw your results and you're hardly slow.  Considering that your bike is new for you and your running has only recently amped up, I think your upside is pretty grand.  (Ya gotta admt you're maybe thinking the same thing, right?)

When i posted to you this morning, I had missed the fact of your having doen a couple of 12-milers in prep for Wayland, and so that will serve you just about perfectly.  One of the tricks for a "time-crunched" triathlete is to not get all obsessive-compulsive about "doing all the mileage" before the race.  Adrenaline is a strong tool, as is the concept of aid stations, and these will easily catapult you over the "gap" of those that missing 1.1 miles.  Really, you won't even know the diff, and if all the rce offers by way of aid stations is 2 or 3, that alone will help quite a bit.  Of course the onus IS on you to pace somewaht intelligently, especially for the firt couple of miles, but if you can pull that off theen you should have a very successful half-marathon experience.

Periodization is not for everyone, but I firmly believe that all triathletes should study the concept and, at the very least, pick out one or two doable aspects of it and try to apply those to their training.  Probably the easiest is prioritizing races.......but then the problem becomes actually doing justice to the "A" races in their training.  The finer points of Build and Peak can often get muddied, but to my mind neither of those is quite a simportant as working on a solid Base.  So, there's key ones in prioritizing races and building a Base, and then a third would be honoring recovery weeks and even a dedicated post-season Recovery period. 

So, if you can make Periodization work for you, that's superb.  And if you can conceive of a realistic and viable plan that might cover more than just one season, even better.  That said, though, don't commit to much time to running into detailed scheduling plans (as on a week-to-week basis) for the second year.  Have some long-eterm race-related goals in mind, but keep each calendar-year season clear and pure on its own.

As for your 2013 plans, I fully support keeping at the sprints and olys, as I've grown to feel that most people are best-served by taking their time working up through the distances.  But as for a half-iron, especially later in the season, that's probably doable for you.  And I say late in trhe season because you're right to suspct that HIM training will compromise sprint/oly performances.  But if you treat the short stuff as part of your Base en route to a late-season half-iron, then that works!  If you are willling to travel some, there are a lot of really nice half-irons in the northeast -- Pumpkinman (ME), FirmMan (RI), Toughman (NY), Diamondman (DE), Half-Full (MD), and Bassman (NJ) come quickly to mind.  (The last two have a short swim and a longer bike, respectively, than the standard 1.2/56/13.1, but not by much.)

My son just phoned, and I'll post this now and return with a few last thoughts.

My shoulders stay pretty relaxed.  I suppose if I just stood up and let my arms hang to my side...that's about where my shoulders stay when I run.

As far as my hands...a friend of mine a long time ago told me that your hands should be as if you're holding a piece of paper in your hand...or a potato chip.  Firm enough so that you don't drop it, but not so firm that you crumple the paper or break the potato chip.

There are obviously different styles to how people run...but that's just how I do it.

You really want to relax everything that isn't getting you down the road more quickly. Meaning, the upper body, face, etc, should be as relaxed as possible (okay, don't go Jello on us).

I hold my hands with the middle finger lightly touching my thumb, but still relaxed. My arm carriage is higher than most coaches would say is prudent, but it works well with my higher cadence and midfoot landing. But the shoulders are relaxed, the face is relaxed... I had a cross-country coach in high school that said relaxation started with the face -- let the jaw flop, the cheeks bounce. The relaxation then travels down the neck and into the shoulders and arms.

MATT again -

Your various time-improvement goals are all realistic -- mildly ambitious, but realistic!!  I looked at the swim one and thought it was high...but that's through the lens of my NOT being able to do that for many years.  However, back when i started I lopped off a bunch of time in my first 2-3 years, so with focused training and good mechanices (the latter is the key!!!), big swim bumps can indeed happen.  (And hopefully for you, once you make those big time gains, you won't be stucj on a mostly endless plateau, as have I.)

For the bike, strong improvements can come from good mechanics, meaning efficient pedaling techniques and learning how to work through your gearings.  It might be easier, meaning more obvious, if you focus on the notion of speed/pace, as opposed to wattage.  Unless you have the right geek-toys (and they're expensive ones!) in your arsenal, wattage is tough to evaluate.

And for the run, well, once more it can come down to mechanics.  Taking a medium- to long-view, work at getting your cadence to 88-90 or so (based on single-foot strikes/minute).  You are probably around 80-84 now, on a consistent basis, and while the gap between that and 88-90 doesn't sound like much, it can take quite a while to get to being able to hold that cadence for, first, a mile ---- and then progressively longer and longer and longer until you can manage it for 10km, say.  There are lots of other aspect of runni g tchnique and mechanics, but I'll just leave it there for now.

Just back to the bike, with that figure of 88-90 in mind, something to work for on the bike is a similar cadence of pedal revolutions.  The trick here, though, is to get progressivley better at it against resisatnce.  Anybody can get into their small ring and largest cog and spin wildly for 125 rpm.....but that'll get them nowhere fast.  So, returning to the idea of watts, even without any techie stuff you can still push the edges of improved wattage by being able to sustain 90 rpm when in progressively harder gearings.  At some point in all of this, you will have a sense of which gearings allow you the most speed and power on flats, and on rollers, and even on decent hills.  But that's also future fodder for the Fast Twitch mill!

Great weight loss; mercy!

Finally, it's always good to have a serial obsessionist (confirmed or otehrwise) in a group like this, so thank you for your presence here!

I hold my hands higher than my elbows and I don't really let my arms swing around much. My podiatrist described my entire running form as "compact." I do hold the virtual potato chip like others have mentioned. And on longer runs I focus on relaxing my face, jaw, neck, and shoulders as I really begin to feel tightness about 8-10 miles. But in a sprint, it's probably more of a "pain face." Haha.

Increasing bike fitness/times over the off season.

My goal this off season is to increase my bike fitness/times for next years races.  I am looking for a bike training program (I see alot of people recommending Jorge's plan) but to be truthful I don't understand the jargon being used to describe each workout, also I don't have a heart rate monitor or power meter - just a cateye bike computer, in addition to a Cycleops fluid trainer.  Can anyone recommend a plan for this type of equipment that is in 'plain' english

When running, my shoulders are quite relaxed and my hands are very loose.  I too have heard the potato chip anlaogy, but almost all of my race photos show me with fingers close together, but never clenched and seldom in contact with my thumbs.

My photos also show that I almost always have my left arm crossing towards my mid-line.  i try to be aware of this and AVOID it during training runs....but the photos show that I'm not very successful.  Of the two arms, the left is the biggest offender, with the right in maybe 30% of photos.  i have never doen an assessment as to what stage of a race most of my photos come from..........and I'd like to think the tending-to-crossing-over motion is at the end of races where I'm maybe getting tired/sloppy........but i think it's just about any time that it can (and does) happen).

The good news is that (a) it is seldom across the midline, and (b) my body does not "twist" in accordance with that slightly wayward armswing.  So, at the very least, any wasted movement is restricted to the arms, with my torso and hips not waggling back and forth.

When i work at keeping arm movement minimal*, period, it has an almost-immediate effect on my foot speed.  The effect is that i can bump up a demi-gear without thinking about it and with no discernible increase in effort.  What IS discernible is the sense of being more compact and more efficient --- very little displaced/misplaced energy.  ( * -- arms close to body, very slight front-and-back movement.)

I did a half marathon last year.  Was having a great race, and was just trying to hang on for dear life the last couple of miles.  With about half a mile to go, a friend of mine was on the side of the road cheering.  I was in full tunnel vision mode, and all I heard was her yelling my name...didn't even see her. 

I talked to her the next week and thanked her for cheering me and others on, but apologized for not acknowledging her when I passed by.  She said "yeah...that's okay...you looked like you were hurting pretty bad."  LOL.

gti123,

You have the CO Fluid2 trainer? If so you can use the virtual power for the plan.  Attached is an Excel workbook I created to use the BT/Jorge's V4 cycling training plan without any fuss other that do the test and input the mph numbers in a cell.  The power/mph ranges are automatically calculated for each phase from the test results.  One stipulation though, you need to have the speed pickup on the rear wheel!  If you feel like this is something you would like to use and have any questions about it please feel free to ask me.

Donto

JASON -

There's been many a race in which I have been told on the run, by a spectator, "You're looking great" --- and if I'm struggling I will say something like "Thank you, it's nice to know I'm looking better than I'm feeling!" or "I just wish I felt half as good as you say I look!"

SHELLY -

Ha!  I just watched a piece on "Anderson Cooper 360" that dealt with the moving of those wee infants out of one of the hospitals.  i guess it could've been you, as part of one of those teams!

I can see why your work hours might make it difficult to make a standard training plan work for you.   My former coach told me often that constructing a training plan is far more art than science, and the same can be said for adapting "published" training plans to some people's somewhat extreme personal needs.  That would be you, i think!  And yet, it sounds like you have done well in following two plans already.........which I guess is why your looking for something beyond the beginner level.  That makes sense, given the training and races you've done, but I just gotta know  --- how much DO you tinker with those plans?

Your story is rermarkable on several fronts, and what you have worked through in terms of cancer and loss goes way beyond inspirational.  I think it is all of our gain, here, that your cardiologist has "restricted" you to sprints -- and that you seem very happy with that arrangement.  You jokingly refer to yourself as the "group guinea pig", but i can tell you right now that you will be so much more than that.  The way you manage family, work, and your own heart-based "limitations" will help all of us as we work through our own various and sundry struggles and setbacks.

I have no doubt that you can continue to improve!  I read your RR on River Cities (Hey!  Be nice to the 910, as it's an expensive toy!),and I will get to the others over the next few days.  It was a blast to read (beyond the 910 comment), but what I focused on were your times, and the conditions. 

First, for a "flatlander", you really did well on the bike course!  your pace was one that many people would be proud of on a flat course, so I think it's safe to say that your cycling is your ace card.  I'm guessing you have good mechanics and are pretty strong, and that will only imporve as you work more on both thsoe areas.  I think you made the right call on the DNS with a rainy mountain course, and you can probably count on  -- count on!!! -- gaining more confidence with both mountaisn and rain as you continue to train.  For sure, the topographic challenges of River Cities were handled well by you!

As for your run, were it not for the inclines AND the temperature AND the PF, you would've easily had a stronger 5km run than the one to which you were comparing times.  Those are three formidable challenges that you faced and worked you way through, and on a "smoother" course with less heat and minus foot problems, you almost certainly had the training under your belt to run a solid 5km.

Doing 5km 2-3 times a week is great, nothing to be apologetic about at all.  if you are managing that most weeks --- then that is indeed consistency.  (From your Tone Of Resolve, I think you'd run 2-3 times a week up here, in the winter, even when it's 20-below!)   In time, that consistency and resolve will move you away from BOP on the run.  I understand the aspects of "disorganized training" and your heart damage and associated concerns,  but I am sure you can improve just by way of developing better running mechanics.  much, much more on that later!

Truthfully, i have now forgotten the gist of your comments about the swim at R.C., and I am afraid to try to go to the RR and risk losing this post entirely.  I seem to remember some pleasure at getting through the swim with your heart rate in check, and you're rigth to view that as a big accomplishment.  Even for seasoned traitjletes, that is not always a gven; i will try to find the page on which I wrote about my own "breathless" episode on my second-to-last tri this season, and MATT's similar episode at one of his this year.  Keeping cool, calm, and collected counts for a lot with swimming, and it seems you did that at R.C.  (I will get back to look at that section again when i finish here.)

BUT!  With decent technique (really wise to have those lessons, Shelly!), which you "admit" to, you have alot of upside with your swimming speed.  With your history, i think you can benefit from developing a stroke that I think of as "langorous"  -- long, fluid, low-stroke-count, and altogether "fishlike".  Can you give me some idea of how many strokes you take to make it across a 25y pool?  (Count both hands.)

Memphisd in May -- great choice for an "A" race!  I haven't done it, but know people who have and its reputation not only precedes it, but seems to be completely warranted.  Cool beans!  as for repeating past race, it's always a great idea.  Just be fair with yoruself as to how conditions might be different from year to year to year, and not beat up on yourself if next year at River Cities, say, it is over 100F!  But seriously, there are not too many more satisfying ways to compare progress (or, to be honest, regress -- which has happened to me before).

Hammond where, exactly?  I have probably missed something, but I see Memphis.......and I see Atlanta.....and I see Santa Rosa (CA, perchance??)......and for all I know you could be in Hammond, INDIANA, and just an intrepid travelin' girl! 

Finally, for now, mega congrats on that weight loss ---  and if you can keep training as you have over the past couple of years, there should be no reason why you can't maintain it!

SHELLY again -

Ah-ha!  S.R.I. Tri is in FL, not CA, so if I triangulate I see GA and FL and TN............and so you must be somewhere in the southeast; am I as warm as your summer weather?

GREG -

Is yours by any chance the Fluid2??  If so, Donto's info above will help lots.  But if not, let us know and we'll move onwards from there.

Also, i will respond soon to you bio.  I know that with the uncertaintly back in the beginning, I decided to wait.  But now that you are a productive member of society here, it's time to go back to it and see what all you said about yourself!

SHELLY -

The key to catchhing up is pacing, and proper nutrition.  You don't want to go out too fast, as that might leave you gasping after the 15th post.  And if you am for a slow-and-steady "endurance slog", that could well result in blurred vision, as well as a general confusion as to threads and how they weave together.

For nutrition....this si one of thsoe instancesin which you can eat anything you want.  It has been clinically proven by the hand-picked medical team that Q and I have asembled that whatever you feel like eatinmg will only enhance your catching-up-with-past-posts experience.  And we're nothing if not about enhancing the experiences here!

Seriously, i.m very glad you saw my "disclaimer", and I think i really need to repost it soon.  It is very easy for anyone to get bogglefied if they miss a few days, and truth told -- I am still a bunch of pages behind.  I keep hoping to carve out some decent time to catch-up to posts that were made from about pages 4 through 12, which is when most of my bio responses were happening -- unfortunately at the exclsuion of much of thr "garden-variety" question/information posts.

So, You Are Not Alone in being a bit behind, and we can do this thing together --- both BOP here at Fast Twitch!

(Psst! --- I have a couple more questions/comments to add on to the lengthy response above, so stay tuned for them later on.)

I stole the pain face thing from some guys who were yelling it at me as I was finishing my very first OLY. They were right...the pictures are not pretty. But I still thought it was hilarious and now my husband and I yell it at each other at times.