Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club (Page 17)

So awesome, Salty, you've been training hard and smart--look at how that pays off!  Wish I could buy you a beer...

Congrats!  I spent today riding a bike and complaining about how hard half marathons are.

Yeah, I really like the HM distance, and the recovery certainly beats marathon recovery but I have found that it always takes a LITTLE longer than I think it will. 

You have lots of time for your marathon training, so be sure to recovery well!

I'm evaluating how I am going to handle this week. I think I did a good amount of mileage last week that left me fresh enough to race well on Saturday, so I will do something pretty similar since I am racing this weekend. My hamstrings and back are a little sore, but nothing a little active recovery, icing and heat won't cure. I am just debating doing my track workout Wednesday. I know it won't benefit my performance for Saturday, as it takes longer than that to realize the benefits of a workout, but my long term is much more about end of season. So, that being said, I think I will complete the workout. If I feel like anything hurts (not just sore) I'll just stop.

Well, I look at training in blocks but ultimately I do have a long term plan and those block fit into it.

The marathon is my ultimate goal and so when it comes down to making a tough decision, I always use the "How will this benefit my marathon" filter.

Right now, I am focusing on the strength part of my training. This strength is meant to give me marathon strength, but I have this block totally oriented to shorter/harder types of workouts. Notice I am not doing much over 15 miles for long runs, as I am not "marathon training"

As for how many Q workouts. I don't even know that the number is specific to the type of racing you are doing. I think it simply has to do with how much your body can handle. The specific workout should be specific to the system you are trying to work, and more than likely that has to do with the type of races you are training for within that block.

I used to jump around a lot, but I've found that giving each block more focus is going to be much more beneficial to my bigger goals. I hope that makes sense ...

*Each time block seems to vary. A marathon/endurance  block is more than likely going to be much longer than a speed or strength block. But do keep in mind that it takes a period of time to actually allow a system to improve. I think JD says 6 weeks or so to increase the VDOT

And speaking of that ol' VDOT friend of ours ... I think I can get a pretty rough ballpark of mine but it's really difficult to determine with the kind of racing I have been doing!

Yeah, in my opinion that is a great way to do it. Gives you lots of time to really develop that speed/strength. You could even start with being consistent with 1Q workout and slowly work in 2, towards the end of that, peaking for that final 5K 

So, is this thread all wrapped up? 

Daily?...probably.  Though honestly I learned a ton from reading the book and sharing thoughts with you peeps, so I'd like to keep it around for running questions.  It's a lot easier than throwing it out in TT and getting 20 responses from folks that don't know your history or no responses at all.

I am still just getting into applying this stuff so my head is going to be in this for a while to come.  Since I haven't done a lot of it in 30 years I'm cautiously feeling my way into the workouts.  I did my 3rd weekly R workout the other day and it felt so good that I'm planning on doing a Q2 tomorrow or the day after.

I'm looking at the 5k to 15k plan (p. 244) since I'm focusing on some 5k's through the winter.  I'll stick to slightly scaled down phase II.  I'm a little freaked out at 5 or 6 mile repeats at T pace.  That's supposed to be about 30 seconds per mile slower than 5k pace.  Seems like a really, really tough workout so early in the phase.  I'm just wondering if I'm ready for this. 

These do work alright if you have a sense of how much harder running you want to get in. What kind of pace would you be running them at? I don't have the book in front of me, but often times it seems there is some recommendation of the amount of time spent doing something like this. 5 @6'/mi is much less than 6 @8'/mi. 30' vs 48'.

I think for us mere mortals, 20-30 minutes of T pace will do just fine, especially with your 5k focus.  For me, that's about 2.6 - 3.8 miles.  As Ben said, for someone who runs their T pace @ 6:30 would be able to get almost 5 miles in.

That said, 30 minutes at T pace is still one tough workout.  Maybe break it up into cruise intervals?  4 x 7', 1' RBI or something?

I'd be doing them a 7:30 so I think I'll do four.  I wasn't sure if doing less would take away much benefit of the workout but sounds like 30 minutes at T would be just about right.  Thanks.

That sounds good. I usually ran about half an hour or so for these types of workouts. Good solid work without wiping you out.

Something that really stood out to me in the book is how conscience he was of duration, or time. A lot of things are given in distance, but mostly due to it being easier or more convenient for people. These all had some adjustments in there to allow for the variation in ability. Lesser of 10 miles or 1 hr. Or lesser of 2 hrs or 16 miles (or whatever it was for some long runs). The VO2 work was where it most stood out with the 5 minute workbout cap for everyone. Slower people were more limited in their preset choices as they can't cover the longer ones within 5 minutes.

During this period of frequent racing, when my training is notched back a bit, do you think my VDOT can still increase?

Racing is speedwork, so possibly.  The added rest between races may actually help too.

It might. Even shorter races aren't exactly low stress.

Hmmmm before I ask my coach, I'm curious what you guys think of this.

I'll be starting marathon training in the middle of December. Typically I would do some sort of long(ish) tempo on Saturdays followed by my long run on Sunday. Do you think replacing 4-5 of those Saturday tempos (within a 16-18 week build) with a series of 2-mile races would be a good thing, break even or a bad thing?

I should add that IMHO, speed is my weakness. 

The main thing I would be concerned about would be the recovery cost and how it would affect your long run.  I would doubt that there's anything in your marathon training plan that calls for a 12-13 minute all-out effort.   

That said, racing is fun, you seem to be good at managing it, and it might keep you from going crazy not racing for four months. 

My thought is that a 2 mile race would be fairly comparable to a 4-6 mile "tempo."  I very well could be wrong though.

Ok, I FINALLY finished the book and want to start incorporating JD's training plan in the BT run focus plan I'm on now.  So I got the sessions typed in to my log then went to the VDot tables to get the pace at which I should be doing said sessions.

According to the Vdot table my E is at 11:48 per mile. Now I'm far from being Speedy Gonzales but I don't think I can do a long run at 11:48/ mile! The M they have listed (based on a recent HM and 1.5 mile test at work) is 10:14. That is closer to my  easy pace. Thoughts?