Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED (Page 18)

Unfortunately you can't fast forward endurance but I understand the basis of your question. I would strongly recommend running a min of 3x/week. For most people, it's very difficult to effectuate any physiological changes by doing a sport less than 3x/week. Another thing to consider is by doing "shorter" 4-5mi runs once or twice a week you begin to build run durability which; overtime, translates into more injury free running.

Something that might work for you would be:

Tue: Short run
Wed: medium run
Fri: short run
Sun: long run

Or at a minimum

Tue: short run
Th: medium run
Sat: long run

With a marathon at the end of April you need to be aware of the fact that you are building volume so take it easy on building intensity at the same time. Its more important to get volume now and after the marathon you can work on intensity over your built volume.

Edited by Steve- 2010-02-26 6:30 PM

Steve,Just curious about your thoughts regarding fueling during a marathon. Generally, on long runs I stick with water plus sport beans as I've read that mixing a sports drink plus eans/gus etc can wreck havoc on your GI. Last Sunday, I ran a mary and, unfortunately, did not stick with my normal routine and drank the Activater provided on course; alternating with the water. Needless to say, violating the cardinal rule of not doing or consuming anything new on race day, I suffered the consequences when my stomach knotted up around mile 18 and started twisting by 20. I lost 6 minutes over the last 6 miles as a result.I've since read that some people think you should stick with sports drink and do away with the gus etc, others advocate sports drink and gus and others water and gu. Using the sports drink, of course, assumes you have used the drink provided on course before the race and know how it affects you.What system do you advocate?On a different note, how long after a mary do you rest before getting back to normal workouts? I ususally wait to run and/or cross train until the following weekend. This time, i decided to get in the water on Monday evening for an easy swim with the thought that water is healing and would help work out the knots. It did feel good, right up until the time I got sick to my stomach. I'm guessing my glycogen (sp) stores were just too low for any type of workout.What are your thoughts?Thanks,Ann-Marie

ha ha ha.  why is it on crack?

how long do you anticipate the marathon to take you to complete?

you shouldn't need more than 1 gel every 45 min.  remember, all gels are not equal, so stay away from gels with simple sugars in the form of "ose" (i.e. fructose, sucrose, glucose, etc)

simple "ose" sugars take more water to dilute to the right osmolality for the body to absorb and if they are not diluted enough then it makes the stomach lock up.

i know of no sports drinks that do not contain "ose" sugars in them, so i never recommend to any of my athletes to use that as a source of fuel during the marathon.  hammer gels are good and cliff bars as well but hammer gels tend to give more steady energy for a slightly longer period of time.

regarding how long to "rest" after a marathon...unfortunately that varies widely and depends on the # of marathons you've done in your past and how hard to ran it.  IN GENERAL I typically ramp up athletes as kind of a "reverse" taper with a "long" run the weekend after the marathon about 6 miles, then the following weekend about 8-13mi depending on their endurance experience/background.  I am, however, a huge advocate of 1 hour easy z1 spin on the bike the day after as that dramatically reduced recovery time.

your immediate post marathon nutrition is extremely important and has a dramatic impact on glycogen store replenishment.  if you don't hit your 20-30 min post marathon recovery window with adaquate liquid recovery fuel and follow it up within 2 hours with a full meal, this could very well affect glycogen stores over the next couple days as well as the amount of time to recovery for subsequent workouts the week(s) following the marathon.

I'm not entirely certain (of course, I can't be) the reason why your monday swim didn't work, but i would suspect it had something to do with your post marathon recovery nutrition protocol (actually, your potential lack thereof).

Yes, it would be nice to standardize terminology right? 

The general idea of tempo vs LT work is as follows:

Tempo:  a workout that allows the body to fluctuate through hR zones up to z3/z4 and back down to z2.

LT:  a workout that allows the body to sustain a significant amount of time either at, just below, or just above LT that effectuates physiological adaptation at LT.  Research has shown that the minimum amount of time at LT (which is typically bottom of z4...but can depend on who's formula you use to calculate your zones) to create any adaptation is approximately 8-12 min.

so really the main "difference" between tempo runs and LT runs should be that LT runs get you right up against your LT and have you hold it for a significant amount of time to allow your body to get used to holding LT for more and more time whereas tempo runs simply run you up and down the zone ladder to allow your body to adapt to speed....very similar to fartlek runs.




Edited by Steve- 2010-02-26 6:56 PM

Thanks. Your recommendations are what I normally do (or try to), e.g, no sports drink, proper refueling, and 6 mile run following weekend. In fact, I;m heading out now for my 6 miles and will follow it up with an hour swim. My marathon time was 4:04, which is a pr, so I'm happy with that, but disappointed b/c I was on pace for a sub 4 hr - which was my goal.B/c of my stomach issues I probably was a bit lacking on my post race nutrition. I tried to eat/drink properly, but in retrospect it probably fell a bit short.Regarding having a gel every 45 minutes - do you find that small women don't need a full gel each refueling? In other words, if I refuel every 45, would 1/2 or 3/4 a gel work for me similar to a full gel for a man or bigger woman?

Thanks Steve.  I'll do 4 days/week for a while.  And try not to push the short runs too hard.

Edited by knewbike 2010-02-27 5:48 AM

good luck tomorrow! looks like you should have good weather.

Good luck tomorrow.  I did that race a few years ago....hated starting in the dark, but overall it was pretty fun and the course really manageable.





Edited by SSMinnow 2010-02-27 3:18 PM

Perfect time for me to chime in!  I am 5'2 and 102.  Steve had me do 1 full gel at 1 hour, and then 1/2 gel every 45 minutes after that.  1 1/2 mouthfuls of H2O (I carried a fuel belt to stay on track) every 15 minutes.  It worked like a CHARM...and my stomach was a non issue.  I had had stomach issues in the past towards the end of races, in both my first half marathon and at the end of my first HIM, but have been really disciplined on my training long runs, with huge p.r.s on my marathon last month and half mary earlier this month...and best of all, no stomach issues.

Thanks for the insight; we are about the same size, so it really helps. What type of gel do you use?

Gu- plain (no flavor)
I think it has (fruct/sucr)-ose of some sort, but for whatever reason, it works for me.
I really don't like the Hammer gel taste. I did try it based on Steve's recommendation, but if you can't get it down, that's no help

good luck on the next one and congrats on your p.r!

kim

sry for the delay but kim (kt65) is correct.  try what works for you but what she recommended is a good place to start.  it's best to have the least amount of fuel that you need so you don't get GI distress during the race.

Kim and Steve,Thanks for the fueling help. I will certainly try those suggestions on my next long run.

Had an awesome race ran great out of the box stayed on pace up until mile 22. Then cramps in arms and then into both calves. Since I had issues last season with my right calf tear slowed it down and worked it out. Only off my A goal by 6 min, still a PR for me 3:51 took :35 min off last year. Weather was awesome and like I said stayed right on pace felt great. Next marathon for me will be at the end of Cozumel. Now a few days of easy trng then time to get at it again. Two xterra events and a 100 mile mtb race in May.

congrats on a great race!

Well, first of all 8 weeks between 2 HIM "A" races is kind of tight in my opinion.  In a perfect world, you'd have 12 weeks min, but we don't live in a perfect world right?

I would suggest the majority of the week after A1 to just keep it light intensity but begin with the following weekend to have a higher intensity but higher volume base period again, similar to what you'd normally have before a build period prior to your A1 race.  do this for a couple weeks, then have 4 week block of build combined with a peak week prior to your A2 race week.

Again, it's kind of tight to truly PEAK for both races; which is my definition of an A race but you just have to work with what you have.

Also, keep in mind your years of endurance racing as athletes with longer time in the sport have the ability to withstand sooner and more intense base and build periods between such short multi-A race windows.

good luck!

nice job.  one of the biggest skill set endurance athletes have is to identify an issue early and take steps to rectify it before it spirals out of control.  it appears you did a great job of doing this!

congrats on a well deserved PR!!!

Does anyone have or rented a bike case they love? I'm in the market and plan to buy one this week...

I borrowed a bike box when I went to Vegas.  it was an upright box - only take off the front wheel and lower the cockpit, the rest of the bike stays as-is.  This made the tear down and setup easy and quick. 

The only thing I would caution with a setup like this is that you pad around the box with anticipation that it WILL get laid or knocked over.

If I were to ship again, I would go with a box where you strip the bike down and pack it nice and snug.

uprights are more convenient that clamshells but as mentioned....clamshells can pack tighter...however, you can put sweatshirts/fleece, pillows, etc inside uprights to keep things from bouncing around.