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2012-11-28 11:28 AM
in reply to: #4512845

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed
SSMinnow - 2012-11-28 7:20 AM

With Thanksgiving behind us and Christmas a ways away, we need to refocus our efforts on some working out!  Who's racing this weekend?  what's the plan?

And for those of us not racing, how can we spice up the MG?  I get the feeling we're a little bored around here with the lack of visits and dialogue, myself included!  a challenge? something else?

 

I'm racing! It's finally here, my favorite race of the year! I'm running a trail marathon down near Bloomington on Saturday. It will be my 4th time running it, and I feel better prepared than ever before. It's going to be warm - shorts weather! - and the trails will be dry, so my goal is to run a course PR. As always, it's the last few miles that matter, so my strategy is to pace it well, stay hydrated, and stay sharp mentally.

Trevor - I'm a big believer in high frequency running. Have fun with your challenge!

Bruce - Patience, grasshopper. Listen to your doctor.



2012-11-28 12:59 PM
in reply to: #4513406

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed
gotta run - 2012-11-28 11:28 AM
SSMinnow - 2012-11-28 7:20 AM

With Thanksgiving behind us and Christmas a ways away, we need to refocus our efforts on some working out!  Who's racing this weekend?  what's the plan?

And for those of us not racing, how can we spice up the MG?  I get the feeling we're a little bored around here with the lack of visits and dialogue, myself included!  a challenge? something else?

 

I'm racing! It's finally here, my favorite race of the year! I'm running a trail marathon down near Bloomington on Saturday. It will be my 4th time running it, and I feel better prepared than ever before. It's going to be warm - shorts weather! - and the trails will be dry, so my goal is to run a course PR. As always, it's the last few miles that matter, so my strategy is to pace it well, stay hydrated, and stay sharp mentally.

Trevor - I'm a big believer in high frequency running. Have fun with your challenge!

Bruce - Patience, grasshopper. Listen to your doctor.

Awesome!  Can't wait to hear all of the details post PR! and podium!

2012-11-28 1:06 PM
in reply to: #4513245

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Verona WI--Ironman Bike Country!
Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed
TrevorC - 2012-11-28 10:25 AM
SSMinnow - 2012-11-28 9:12 AM
TrevorC - 2012-11-28 9:30 AM
SSMinnow - 2012-11-28 5:20 AM

With Thanksgiving behind us and Christmas a ways away, we need to refocus our efforts on some working out!  Who's racing this weekend?  what's the plan?

And for those of us not racing, how can we spice up the MG?  I get the feeling we're a little bored around here with the lack of visits and dialogue, myself included!  a challenge? something else?

No race.

But I have been secretly doing my own CHALLENGE this last month. It started off innocently enough. I really wanted to run alot this month. Not necessarily volume, but quantity. When I got half-way through the month, I realized I was a few runs behind the pace of 30 runs in 30 days. Since the 13th, I've missed one day. With my learn to run group, I have been doubling up runs on Wed & Fri. So currently at 25 runs in 27 days. Shortest has been ~4K, longest was my half on the 11th. They haven't necessarily been 'hard' runs, but I wanted to train my mind to get out there and just run.

I'll run at lunch today, then easy run with my group tonight. Tomorrow lunch. Friday early morning or lunch, then evening with group to get to 30 in 30. 

So stealth!  By quantity you mean the number of times, right? otherwise volume and quantity are the same thing to me. Tongue out  What's the objective? build strength?

yes number of runs, not number of km's. Objective is just trying to do it. I imagine it'll add some strength, but honestly with my injury back in April-June, I didn't run that much up to IM this year. It's November and I still like running, so I figured I'd capitalize on it.

I get it.  When I was just a runner, I rarely took a day off and loved it.  I'm in a run focus period now and while I like it, it's kicking my can in a big way.    Between running and my new found sport, TRX, I am zonked at the end of a week.  How are you holding up?

2012-11-28 2:08 PM
in reply to: #4513639

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed
SSMinnow - 2012-11-28 12:06 PM
TrevorC - 2012-11-28 10:25 AM
SSMinnow - 2012-11-28 9:12 AM
TrevorC - 2012-11-28 9:30 AM
SSMinnow - 2012-11-28 5:20 AM

With Thanksgiving behind us and Christmas a ways away, we need to refocus our efforts on some working out!  Who's racing this weekend?  what's the plan?

And for those of us not racing, how can we spice up the MG?  I get the feeling we're a little bored around here with the lack of visits and dialogue, myself included!  a challenge? something else?

No race.

But I have been secretly doing my own CHALLENGE this last month. It started off innocently enough. I really wanted to run alot this month. Not necessarily volume, but quantity. When I got half-way through the month, I realized I was a few runs behind the pace of 30 runs in 30 days. Since the 13th, I've missed one day. With my learn to run group, I have been doubling up runs on Wed & Fri. So currently at 25 runs in 27 days. Shortest has been ~4K, longest was my half on the 11th. They haven't necessarily been 'hard' runs, but I wanted to train my mind to get out there and just run.

I'll run at lunch today, then easy run with my group tonight. Tomorrow lunch. Friday early morning or lunch, then evening with group to get to 30 in 30. 

So stealth!  By quantity you mean the number of times, right? otherwise volume and quantity are the same thing to me. Tongue out  What's the objective? build strength?

yes number of runs, not number of km's. Objective is just trying to do it. I imagine it'll add some strength, but honestly with my injury back in April-June, I didn't run that much up to IM this year. It's November and I still like running, so I figured I'd capitalize on it.

I get it.  When I was just a runner, I rarely took a day off and loved it.  I'm in a run focus period now and while I like it, it's kicking my can in a big way.    Between running and my new found sport, TRX, I am zonked at the end of a week.  How are you holding up?

Its not high mileage for most.... I'll be just over 100 miles for November when I finish. but will be my third highest total miles ever. Only 2 months higher were when I trained for Vegas a few years ago.

I actually like it. Definitely need to stretch every day though!

2012-11-28 2:51 PM
in reply to: #4123816

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed

FWIW: Heart Rate Monitors has the Garmin 310XT on sale for $207.00

Sorry my computer will not post a link. it is at www.heartratemonitorsusa.com.

2012-11-28 3:13 PM
in reply to: #4123816

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Master
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Guelph, Ontario
Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed
Hi everybody. I hope you have all been doing great and had an awesome tri season. Mine sucked as I blew out my shoulder in June and my season was over before it got started. Was getting better and got back in the pool recently only to have it start acting up again. Looks like another month or so of not doing any swim training.


2012-11-28 3:39 PM
in reply to: #4512845

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed
SSMinnow - 2012-11-28 9:20 PM

With Thanksgiving behind us and Christmas a ways away, we need to refocus our efforts on some working out!  Who's racing this weekend?  what's the plan?

And for those of us not racing, how can we spice up the MG?  I get the feeling we're a little bored around here with the lack of visits and dialogue, myself included!  a challenge? something else?

Have a great race Julia! No pressure but I know you'll smash it!

I did a running streak last year running every day from Thanksgiving to New Years day. I loved it. I just did lots of short runs on my easy days and experimented with barefoot running and different shoes. I'm almost at the point where I might add some of these little runs as a way to add frequency to my running before increasing my distance. I was going to use the Barry P method to get the volume done but I felt a bit stiff in my ankle so my plan now is to build up over the next 6 weeks so I can resume my IM plan in early January when we get back from overseas - UK,Spain and France!

Bruce, there's no point in rushing a run injury!
2012-11-28 5:49 PM
in reply to: #4512845

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed
SSMinnow - 2012-11-28 4:20 AM

With Thanksgiving behind us and Christmas a ways away, we need to refocus our efforts on some working out!  Who's racing this weekend?  what's the plan?

And for those of us not racing, how can we spice up the MG?  I get the feeling we're a little bored around here with the lack of visits and dialogue, myself included!  a challenge? something else?

No racing for me.  Life is getting hectic as we hit the holiday season. 

Good luck to Julia on her trail race!  Rock it, Girl!!!!

Good work, Trevor!  That's a lot of running. 

Welcome back to Bruce, listen to your doctor and take a moment to look at your goals for next season.  If one more week is going to give you a fuller recovery then what's one week of less impact?  Can you bike or swim?  Lots of fitness to be gained on the bike during the off season! 

Dan, what a great half marathon PR for you!  Awesome, speedster! 

To all of my fellow iPad users, if you are having problems with BT on the iPad, Kathy set up Puffin as my browser and I love how fast it goes and my BT does not crash anymore.  For the past few weeks I could not seem to log on to BT using Chrome or Safari, but with Puffin, NO PROB!  I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaack........

Have a great Humpday, peeps! 

2012-11-28 9:51 PM
in reply to: #4123816

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed
Wow, never heard of Puffin, im writing this on it now, seems very fast!
2012-11-28 10:35 PM
in reply to: #4123816

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Master
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Sendai, Japan
Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed

Nice to hear from Doug and Rob!!

No racing here until probably next May.  I agree that it has been a little quiet in here, but figure it is just that time of the year.  

2012-11-28 11:57 PM
in reply to: #4123816

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed

Dan:

Looks like I will be making my first trip to Asia late January-early February. Taiwan, Beijing, and Tokyo. Going to have to figure out how to pack for this trip.



2012-11-29 6:50 AM
in reply to: #4514398

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed
DougRob - 2012-11-29 2:57 AM

Dan:

Looks like I will be making my first trip to Asia late January-early February. Taiwan, Beijing, and Tokyo. Going to have to figure out how to pack for this trip.

 

Doug,   You'll need warmer clothes for Beijing, but if you stay in the city, it is usually a dry cold (sunny if the smog isn't too bad).  Tokyo is pretty mild and I expect Taiwan will be very mild.   Let me know your travel dates - if you have a weekend in Tokyo and things work out, perhaps we can meet up for a run.

2012-11-29 6:57 AM
in reply to: #4512845

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed
SSMinnow - 2012-11-28 7:20 AM

With Thanksgiving behind us and Christmas a ways away, we need to refocus our efforts on some working out!  Who's racing this weekend?  what's the plan?

And for those of us not racing, how can we spice up the MG?  I get the feeling we're a little bored around here with the lack of visits and dialogue, myself included!  a challenge? something else?

 


No racing here or running or biking or swimming or lifting

My injury was not run related it was a long overdue surgery that I put off for years. It was in a personal area ummm... male related (he says with a blush), but all is well and functioning well (he says again with an even redder face) Surprised So thanks all for telling me to be patient... on top of the surgery just when I was starting to feel a little better I ended up with some kind of virus...which I guess was a blessing in disguise as it has also stopped me from working out. So going to wait them both out and my body hopefully will be ready to kick #@# in December.

Julia - Good luck hitting that PR, it is great feeling when you know your body is ready, I can feel that adrenaline pumping and the legs just want to go.

2012-11-29 7:00 AM
in reply to: #4513904

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed

Redknight - 2012-11-28 4:13 PM Hi everybody. I hope you have all been doing great and had an awesome tri season. Mine sucked as I blew out my shoulder in June and my season was over before it got started. Was getting better and got back in the pool recently only to have it start acting up again. Looks like another month or so of not doing any swim training.

Hang in there Rob I have a new found empathy for those that are injured.

2012-11-29 8:26 AM
in reply to: #4512845

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed
SSMinnow - 2012-11-28 7:20 AM

With Thanksgiving behind us and Christmas a ways away, we need to refocus our efforts on some working out!  Who's racing this weekend?  what's the plan?

And for those of us not racing, how can we spice up the MG?  I get the feeling we're a little bored around here with the lack of visits and dialogue, myself included!  a challenge? something else?

Cross race this weekend, sorry not contributing much, work, school, training, kids, etc taking up most of my time, actually I've been so busy at work, don't have the same time I used to, to get into the forums much.

Scary though I might actually re-join the gym here at work so I can get some swimming in over the winter, maybe I'll like it more when I'm not doing it to try to get ready for a race.

2012-11-29 8:53 AM
in reply to: #4512845

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed
SSMinnow - 2012-11-28 6:20 AM

With Thanksgiving behind us and Christmas a ways away, we need to refocus our efforts on some working out!  Who's racing this weekend?  what's the plan?

And for those of us not racing, how can we spice up the MG?  I get the feeling we're a little bored around here with the lack of visits and dialogue, myself included!  a challenge? something else?

2 scored races left in the "Wisconsin Cup" Cyclocross Season.  One this Sun and then State Championships next Saturday.  I am going into these last 2 races with a 5 point lead on the only remaining guy that can beat me. (Races are scored 1st= 20pts, 2nd = 17 points, 3rd= 15 points, 4th = 14, etc.... through 20th)  So, I need to race well to lock this thing up for the season, at least I am in a position to defend instead of attack.

Some quick observations from the Bike Racing Season that may create some discussion:

  • It is a constant fight trying to stay in peak form both physically and mentally.  It is a long season with races almost every weekend, going on 8+ months currently.  I have really had to learn to listen to my body with my training and adjust accordingly. 
  • It is amazing at how stress levels at work or at home can affect your recovery on a weekly basis and therefore your performance on the weekend.  The importance of sleep might be underrated!
  • Every weekend and every race is different.  One weekend you might be able to drop a rival without even trying, the next weekend you can't seem to hold his wheel.  This does seem to help you dial in your training though.    
  • Bike racers get a bad rap.  Most are really good people but are very passionate about the sport, their safety, and their training.
  • The competition is fierce at all levels.  It reminds me of golf.  Once you think you are getting good, there is always another category of folks that will quickly put you back in your place.  "Old and Slow" categories are NOT really old and slow.  
  • Currently, I can't wait for a break, but also can't wait for next season.......    still debating about trying to stay in shape to race Nationals in January.  But I have already decided that Tony will have to roll alone at Worlds in February........  

Good Luck to all our Racers this weekend..... REPRESENT!!



Edited by badgerintx 2012-11-29 9:21 AM


2012-11-29 8:53 AM
in reply to: #4123816

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Silverton, Oregon
Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed

You are going to rock Tecumseh, Julia! Can't wait to hear about it. Love the trails in the Fall!

Have a great race, Tony! You in the pool? I'll believe it when I see it

Rob! Great to hear from you. Really sorry about the injury.

Keep letting yourself heal, Bruce. Definitely don't want any setbacks in that area.

Sounds like fun travel plans, David and Doug. Enjoy!

Have a fantastic weekend everyone!

2012-11-29 9:17 AM
in reply to: #4123816

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Master
2005
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Silverton, Oregon
Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed

Update on Jason:

Thank you for all the positive thoughts and prayers for Jason and those that love him. The surgery to remove the tumor is scheduled for Monday December 3rd. They won't know if they can get it all until they get in there, but they do believe it is a low-grade tumor, which is a bit of good news. He'll be in the hospital for 7 days and it will take a couple months for his speech and comprehension to be back to normal. So, there is a long road ahead, and he will have to postpone school for awhile. We're driving to San Francisco tomorrow and will be there until Wednesday to support him and our daughter. Just praying all goes well with the surgery.

Thanks to the kindness of friends and strangers, he was able to afford the trip to San Francisco. His high school friends had a fundraiser for him in Fortine, Montana with bands, a silent auction, and dinner. They had a "match the pot" drawing that his Uncle won and then donated his half back to Jason. Best thing was that Jason was able to party with all his childhood friends and family, which was a huge boon to his spirits. The Vietnam Vets in Bozeman had a chili cook off for him, and the Veterans office has helped him a great deal (He is a Navy Veteran). Jason and his family are so very grateful for all of this. I just wanted to share some of the joyful times of the journey.

2012-11-29 10:05 AM
in reply to: #4123816

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed

Just checking in.  No racing for me.  I'm just building my run mileage.  I've hit all of my midweek runs last week and  this week, but still struggling to get the back to back mileage on Sat/Sun.  Going to get it this weekend.  Finding myself very hungry, tired, and grumpy--pretty typical. Cool

Dan, Congrats on your new 1/2 marathon PR.  You are FAST.

Linda, very sorry to hear you lost your father.  Sounds like you have a great family.

Julia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Tecumseh Trail Marathon.  Kick some a$$ out there this weekend.  I WILL be there next year.

Dino, good luck with your upcoming cross races.

Bruce, so many things I could say, but I will try to behave myself (or not).  How's the self-massage working? Innocent

2012-11-29 11:17 AM
in reply to: #4514620

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Verona WI--Ironman Bike Country!
Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed
badgerintx - 2012-11-29 8:53 AM
SSMinnow - 2012-11-28 6:20 AM

With Thanksgiving behind us and Christmas a ways away, we need to refocus our efforts on some working out!  Who's racing this weekend?  what's the plan?

And for those of us not racing, how can we spice up the MG?  I get the feeling we're a little bored around here with the lack of visits and dialogue, myself included!  a challenge? something else?

2 scored races left in the "Wisconsin Cup" Cyclocross Season.  One this Sun and then State Championships next Saturday.  I am going into these last 2 races with a 5 point lead on the only remaining guy that can beat me. (Races are scored 1st= 20pts, 2nd = 17 points, 3rd= 15 points, 4th = 14, etc.... through 20th)  So, I need to race well to lock this thing up for the season, at least I am in a position to defend instead of attack.

Some quick observations from the Bike Racing Season that may create some discussion:

  • It is a constant fight trying to stay in peak form both physically and mentally.  It is a long season with races almost every weekend, going on 8+ months currently.  I have really had to learn to listen to my body with my training and adjust accordingly. 
  • It is amazing at how stress levels at work or at home can affect your recovery on a weekly basis and therefore your performance on the weekend.  The importance of sleep might be underrated!
  • Every weekend and every race is different.  One weekend you might be able to drop a rival without even trying, the next weekend you can't seem to hold his wheel.  This does seem to help you dial in your training though.    
  • Bike racers get a bad rap.  Most are really good people but are very passionate about the sport, their safety, and their training.
  • The competition is fierce at all levels.  It reminds me of golf.  Once you think you are getting good, there is always another category of folks that will quickly put you back in your place.  "Old and Slow" categories are NOT really old and slow.  
  • Currently, I can't wait for a break, but also can't wait for next season.......    still debating about trying to stay in shape to race Nationals in January.  But I have already decided that Tony will have to roll alone at Worlds in February........  

Good Luck to all our Racers this weekend..... REPRESENT!!

I experienced that very thing during my Turkey Day 10K.  I think I went in a little cocky since my prior two races were PRs and BAM  you realize you're not invincable.  I lacked sleep, had a tough work out week and was handed my head on a platter and ate some humble pie.  Good write-up Dineen!

I know you're a good guy, but sometime bike racers and strict runners seem a little cocky to me.  Like being a triathlete makes you a second class citizen.  We all love our sport, really.

PS.  No racing for me this weekend!  Going to live vicariously through Julia.

2012-11-29 1:08 PM
in reply to: #4514656

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed
RoniS - 2012-11-29 10:17 AM

Update on Jason:

Thank you for all the positive thoughts and prayers for Jason and those that love him. The surgery to remove the tumor is scheduled for Monday December 3rd. They won't know if they can get it all until they get in there, but they do believe it is a low-grade tumor, which is a bit of good news. He'll be in the hospital for 7 days and it will take a couple months for his speech and comprehension to be back to normal. So, there is a long road ahead, and he will have to postpone school for awhile. We're driving to San Francisco tomorrow and will be there until Wednesday to support him and our daughter. Just praying all goes well with the surgery.

Thanks to the kindness of friends and strangers, he was able to afford the trip to San Francisco. His high school friends had a fundraiser for him in Fortine, Montana with bands, a silent auction, and dinner. They had a "match the pot" drawing that his Uncle won and then donated his half back to Jason. Best thing was that Jason was able to party with all his childhood friends and family, which was a huge boon to his spirits. The Vietnam Vets in Bozeman had a chili cook off for him, and the Veterans office has helped him a great deal (He is a Navy Veteran). Jason and his family are so very grateful for all of this. I just wanted to share some of the joyful times of the journey.

 

Roni, this is an amazing story. Thank you so much for sharing it. Tell Jason we're all thinking of him, and please keep us posted.



2012-11-29 3:23 PM
in reply to: #4514879

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Elite
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Calgary,AB,Canada
Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed
SSMinnow - 2012-11-29 10:17 AM
badgerintx - 2012-11-29 8:53 AM
SSMinnow - 2012-11-28 6:20 AM

With Thanksgiving behind us and Christmas a ways away, we need to refocus our efforts on some working out!  Who's racing this weekend?  what's the plan?

And for those of us not racing, how can we spice up the MG?  I get the feeling we're a little bored around here with the lack of visits and dialogue, myself included!  a challenge? something else?

2 scored races left in the "Wisconsin Cup" Cyclocross Season.  One this Sun and then State Championships next Saturday.  I am going into these last 2 races with a 5 point lead on the only remaining guy that can beat me. (Races are scored 1st= 20pts, 2nd = 17 points, 3rd= 15 points, 4th = 14, etc.... through 20th)  So, I need to race well to lock this thing up for the season, at least I am in a position to defend instead of attack.

Some quick observations from the Bike Racing Season that may create some discussion:

  • It is a constant fight trying to stay in peak form both physically and mentally.  It is a long season with races almost every weekend, going on 8+ months currently.  I have really had to learn to listen to my body with my training and adjust accordingly. 
  • It is amazing at how stress levels at work or at home can affect your recovery on a weekly basis and therefore your performance on the weekend.  The importance of sleep might be underrated!
  • Every weekend and every race is different.  One weekend you might be able to drop a rival without even trying, the next weekend you can't seem to hold his wheel.  This does seem to help you dial in your training though.    
  • Bike racers get a bad rap.  Most are really good people but are very passionate about the sport, their safety, and their training.
  • The competition is fierce at all levels.  It reminds me of golf.  Once you think you are getting good, there is always another category of folks that will quickly put you back in your place.  "Old and Slow" categories are NOT really old and slow.  
  • Currently, I can't wait for a break, but also can't wait for next season.......    still debating about trying to stay in shape to race Nationals in January.  But I have already decided that Tony will have to roll alone at Worlds in February........  

Good Luck to all our Racers this weekend..... REPRESENT!!

I experienced that very thing during my Turkey Day 10K.  I think I went in a little cocky since my prior two races were PRs and BAM  you realize you're not invincable.  I lacked sleep, had a tough work out week and was handed my head on a platter and ate some humble pie.  Good write-up Dineen!

I know you're a good guy, but sometime bike racers and strict runners seem a little cocky to me.  Like being a triathlete makes you a second class citizen.  We all love our sport, really.

PS.  No racing for me this weekend!  Going to live vicariously through Julia.

isn't that the same with triathletes? People here think Triathletes are all cocky peeps. That being said, I think we are all cocky to a certain degree. We all think our sport is the BEST!

2012-11-29 5:24 PM
in reply to: #4123816

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Brevard, North Carolina
Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed

Here's a total I'm proud to post. 

November 2012

Run:19h 46m 58s  - 100.7 Mi

 

 

Edited to add that 80 of those miles were on the trails!

And edited yet again because I don't know what year it is.  Did I mention all this running is making me stupid?



Edited by jfought 2012-11-29 6:30 PM
2012-11-29 5:42 PM
in reply to: #4515470

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed
jfought - 2012-11-29 5:24 PM

Here's a total I'm proud to post. 

November 2011 

Run:19h 46m 58s  - 100.7 Mi

 

 

Edited to add that 80 of those miles were on the trails!

You mean 2012? or are you living in the past?

I'm not quite done with November so my totals will come tomorrow!

PS.  I heard that CA is going to get 14 inches of rain.  You girls need an ark?

2012-11-30 11:22 AM
in reply to: #4123816

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Subject: RE: swbkrun mentor group 6 years running closed

http://screen.yahoo.com/flip-side-workout-000000175.html

 

This should create some interesting discussion, sometimes the truth is hard to see



Edited by bfwhitt 2012-11-30 11:24 AM
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