Gray Guys/Girls Master's Focus Triathlon Mentor Group--Now Open (Page 19)

Hey Dorm!

Nice ride.  That sun can be a biotch can't it?  I always seem to be about 60-seconds away  from a massive sunburn when I get back from a long ride.

Anyway, you mentioned you are taking Aleve and/or Motrin during your rides.  I thought I would share a couple of websites with you:

http://runnersconnect.net/running-injury-prevention/ibuprofen-and-running/

http://www.fixbodygroup.com/inflammation-nsaids-and-athletes/

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2013/04/inflammation-nation-is-inflammation.html

The articles aren't that long, except the third one, and they are worth every second it takes to read them.  Fair warning, the third article is a bit technical.  To summarize what these websites point out,  according to research, the use of NSAID's (ibuprofen, aspirin, acetaminophen, to name a few) may inhibit training adaptations in muscle.  Meaning, if you are taking NSAID's, the desired physical adaptations expected from a specific training may not take place because the NSAID's can interfere with the bodies repair mechanisms.

The articles don't say it WILL happen, rather that it MAY happen.  I am of the mind that forewarned is forearmed.

I encourage everyone to read the articles and know what current research is showing.

Scott, thank you for the up-to-date info on NSAID's.  I'd never considered this side effect - to actually be an inhibitor for healing.  NSAID's  also produce other side effects, and for those reasons I use these very sparingly.  But, this causes me to pause and re-evaluate any use ... I'm not putting in all the sweat, pain and work for nothing!

Dave ...nice job and I'm very jealous of your pace.  On the numbness, it's been a while since I've had it to this level.  I usually have some tingling during a ride, but can shake it off with no issues.  Yesterday's cause I think was due to the prolonged ride.  The condition is referred to as "handlebar palsy" and can result in tingling, numbness, weak muscles (hands-fingers) and can extend for hours even days.  To me bike fit and core strength are sources for the issue as it directly relates back to the pressure when resting your hands on the bars. I do shift hand position fairly often,to keep the blood going too.  But my fit is pretty good ... so for me it ties back to core strength - something else I'll have to work on.

I've included an article on the condition: www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/cycling-injuries

Ciao - Dorm

AK Dave - congrats on your race!

Dorm - thanks for the info on your ride, especially the nutrition part.  That's something I need to start thinking about with longer rides coming up.  

I did a duathlon yesterday - 1.5m run/12m bike/1.5m run.  My overall finish was very similar to last year - 1:26:29 this year, 1:26:06 last year - 5/7 in my AG both years.  My runs were a little slower and transitions were a little slower due to changing shoes this year, but my bike split was better which I'm happy about.  I'm finally getting comfortable with clipping in and out, now if I could just figure out the U-turn thing I'll be doing good.  

Janet

Congratulations Janet on the good results ... and it's good to see you gaining confidence with the bike. 

On the nutrition comment ... I'd not seriously considered this until talking with one of the local tri shop owners a couple of years back.  The guy must have 30 tee shirts on a wall wherein he's completed IronMan competitions all over ... so he is definitely a serious athlete.  My son-in-law had an armload of gels, Cytomax, powerbars and such and was at the checkout counter paying, when I sort-of under my breath told him he was wasting his money. 

The owner picked up on this and offered a nice discussion about calorie burning, fueling the tank and why.  And given his palmare's, his advice should be considered.   Simply put, we almost cannot eat enough during an event to equal what we burn, so we're usually at a deficit, fuel-wise.  I'd never stopped to consider the amount of calories burned and the need to re-fuel so as to maintain energy levels.  I'm sure others in the group can provide a more in-depth explanation and basis, but maintaining nutrition during workouts or an event is very important.

Ciao - Dorm

All . .. here is the video I recorded at my first tri in March.  This was of the leaders going thru T1.  The second gent in the vid is the eventual winner at 43:08.  For the runners here, he posted a 17:20 run leg.  I was really impressed at how calm, few actions and smooth this transition was, and at 58 seconds, his was 1st in T1 time overall. Also, sorry for the poor vid quality - a lot was lost in conversion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mIqClpo5kY

Ciao - Dorm

With my cycle training I performed a 20' TT early on to establish my max power and then based workouts off of the max power number.  This "max power" number is the average watt output from an all out, absolutely no gas left in the tank. 20' session.  With the training progression I'd do other TT sessions to update for growth and re-establish the max power number.  These other TT sessions were only an 8' interval and so the basis for my question is ... is the 8' TT adequate to re-establish ones power number - should I do another 20' TT instead or something else?

To me the 8' duration might falsely inflate the new max power number, but if so, doesn't it result in a heck of a lot more work with the workouts.  My gut tells me the difference between an 8' and 20' TT may be around 5%.  And so depending on what ones max power is the 5% could be 10 to 20 watts.  Could an inflated max power increment result in over training, and also falsely inflate what I'm thinking my sweet spot is ... the sweet spot being somewhere between 70%-80% of max power and the zone wherein I feel I could go for a looong time.

Might be making much about nothing, but I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Hey Dan,

I'm not sure if it's great information, but we all need to know about nutrition, ESPECIALLY if we are "going long."

A well though out nutrition plan has two components - nutrition (calories, typically carbohydrate) and hydration.

It is easiest to understand the hydration component so we will start there.  Every athlete should know their "sweat-rate."  Sweat-rate is the amount of fluid you lose per hour through sweating.  It is easy to determine:

1. Strip down to your birthday suit and weigh yourself.
2. Go workout, keeping an accurate record of how much fluid you take in.
3. At the end of your workout, strip down to your birthday suit, towel off, and weigh yourself.
4. Subtract your post workout weight from your pre-workout weight.  Convert that result to ounces, add the fluid you took in during the workout resulting in your sweat rate.

For example, assuming this is a one-hour workout: Your pre-workout weight is 157.  Post workout was 156.5.  You took in 16-ounces of fluid during the exercise.

• 157-156.5 = 0.5 pounds
•  0.5 x 16 = 8 ounces
• Add fluid taken in, 8 + 16 = 24 ounces per hour.

Your sweat rate is 24-ounces per hour meaning your target fluid intake is ~ 24-ounces per hour (it is best to do at least a one-hour test for most accurate results.  Convert your test result to yield a one-hour sweat rate).  It is EXTREMELY important to know your sweat rate in various conditions.  Your sweat rate will be very different when it is 45 degrees with 15% humidity versus 90 degrees with 90% humidity.  It is worthwhile to check your sweat rate for both running and cycling as there may be a difference - especially in warm conditions.

You want to avoid losing more than 2% of your body weight from fluid loss.  For our fictitious 157-pound athlete, that is 3.14 pounds - or ~ 50-ounces of fluid.

I tend to stay away from water and use a sport drink instead as you need electrolyte replacement as well as water.  Personally I use a custom blend from Infinit.  There are any number of sports drinks available.   Even Gatorade will replace sodium.  Sodium replacement is critical to avoid hyponatraemia (too little sodium), which can be life threatening in extreme cases.

On the nutrition side, things are a little more complicated - OK, a LOT more complicated.  The average athlete has approximately 1,400-2,000 calories stored in their body in the form of glycogen (carbohydrate) as well as a virtually unlimited number of calories stored in body fat.  Our bodies can generally absorb 150-300 calories per hour.  However, and here is the catch, what we absorb and what we process are likely two very different numbers.  More importantly, what we absorb is VERY dependent upon the intensity level and what you are doing.  It is far easier to absorb and process calories on the bike than it is during the run.  It becomes increasingly difficult to absorb calories as your exertion level goes up.

The generally recommended guidelines are take in 60-80 grams of carbohydrate per hour - meaning 240-320 calories per hour.  Conveniently, most gels come in 130-150 calorie gel packs - two per hour and your are good.  By the way, taking in MORE than you need is a waste.  Your body won't absorb it and it may lead to GI distress which will likely cause your body to absorb even less.  Some people also like to take in a few grams of protein per hour during longer events (many of the custom blended sports drinks can include protein as well as all electrolytes and caffeine is desired).  The sports drink, gel, solid food considerations are another topic entirely so I will save that for another time.

Any well though out nutrition plan must consider fat burning.  Consider this, an average AG athlete may burn 8,000-10,000 calories during an Ironman.  If you start with 2,000 calories stored as glycogen (most don't have quite that much) and you absorb/process 300 calories per hour (most don't absorb/process that much) you would have ~ 5,600 calories available from carbohydrate over the duration of a 12-hour Ironman - but you need 8,000-10,000 calories to reach the finish line.  Before the starting gun even fires, you could find yourself at a 2,400-4.400 calorie deficit.  That difference must be made up through fat utilization.  For anyone that thinks training harder and faster is the answer, ignoring their aerobic base in the process, they will discover the error of their ways on race day.  Fat burns in a carbohydrate fire - if you run out of carbohydrate, you run out of energy; PERIOD.  Utilizing fat on race day begins with those aerobic endurance training sessions that we all enjoy so much.  Increasing your fat utilization reduces the complexity of your nutrition plan because you will need less carbohydrate.  End of my fat utilization rant!

Even the most well though out nutrition plan can fail if you mispace the race (the longer the race, the more important this becomes).  Too much stress (intensity) early on in a race can shut down your gut, rendering your nutrition plan useless.  Bloating and sloshing in the stomach generally occur for one of two reasons - not enough sodium or too much stress. If gut and/or GI issues begin to creep up, slow down and and allow things to clear up. If you don't, your body will force you too and it likely won't be pretty.

A little tip on nutrition, regardless of the length of the race, when you come out of the water, you are at a caloric deficit.  As soon as you get to T1 take in a gel pack and a couple swigs of your sports drink.  Most people wait until they are comfortable on the bike before beginning to take in nutrition.  By doing it in T1, you are ahead of those that wait.

One final word on nutrition.  Coke (soda) if your best friend.  If your nutrition plan fails you, for whatever reason, the soda available on course at any aid station will offer instant relief.  Drink a soda, SLOW down, consume a gel, and withing a couple minutes you should be feeling better and able to resume your race.

Hope that helps.

Hey Dorm,

Sorry I didn't see this sooner.  Been a tough few days at work.

Generally speaking, it is best to consistently use the same method to establish FTP.  If you use an 8-minute test, multiply the result by 90% to derive your FTP.  If using a 20-minute test, multiply the result by 95% to derive your FTP. 

The longer the test, the more accurate the results.  Any FTP test is going to be, by definition, painful and challenging to do. There is a HUGE mental difference between an 8-minute test and a 20, 40, or 60-minute test.  For most AG triathletes that are not doing an Ironman, an 8-minute test is likely sufficient; it's far easier to perform, requires less recovery, and won't cause you to question your very existence.  If you are going long on race day, at some point you should be doing a longer test.  The important consideration is that whatever test you use, consistently use the same test - you want to be comparing apples to apples so to speak.

Conveniently, most gels come in 130-150 calorie gel packs - two per hour and your are good.  By the way, taking in MORE than you need is a waste.  Your body won't absorb it and it may lead to GI distress which will likely cause your body to absorb even less.  Some people also like to take in a few grams of protein per hour during longer events (many of the custom blended sports drinks can include protein as well as all electrolytes and caffeine is desired).  The sports drink, gel, solid food considerations are another topic entirely so I will save that for another time.

Hey Deb,

NSAIDS chemically interfere with the bodies bio-chemical response to inflammation and pain.  Ice on the other hand has a couple of effects, it reduces swelling, which helps reduce inflammation.  Ice also reduces nerve velocity which slows pain impulses to the brain so pain is effectively reduced.  The down side to icing is that it constricts the blood vessels - reducing available nutrients and oxygen needed for cellular repair.  The studies I have seen say limit icing to 20-minutes immediately post-exercise.

I agree that we can never be certain about what we know.  Indeed, what science "knew" to be true a couple of decades ago has been proved wrong time and again - for example, the role of lactate in exercising muscles.  I think however, using ice after exercise continues to be one of the most widely accepted methods of reducing post-exercise pain and inflammation.

Hey Chris and Deb,

I am going to combine your posts and kind of reply to both of them at once as they are "on the same page."

First, Chris to your point, you are right, I over-stated the calories per gel pack.  Personally I RARELY use gels.  I don't like them.  I don't like dealing with them.  Once you open them, you have a sticky mess.  If you simply drop the packet when you have emptied it, you are littering.  If you put the empty pack back in your pocket or pouch, you have the sticky mess in your pocket or pouch.  For all those reasons, I prefer chews.  Sorry, I was citing calories from memory and I got it wrong.

To Deb's point.  I heavily discount anything a nutrition vendor has to say as they have an agenda - namely they want to sell me something and almost anything they have to say is going to be influenced by their marketing department.  I much prefer to go with scientific research done by independent third parties such as Universities, or to a lesser extent, with empirical evidence and/or recommendations of experienced triathletes.  Even that method is flawed however.  For example, Dave Scott says you should wait 15-20 minutes after you are on the bike to take in your first nutrition, meanwhile Mark Allen (I think? Going from my admittedly flawed memory) says you should take in nutrition as soon as you hit T1 because you are at a caloric deficit from the swim.  Both Dave Scott and Mark Allen are former World Champions,  Who is right?  The University studies present similar dichotomies.  A study out of the University of Davis says an endurance athlete should take in 0.2-1.0g CHO (carbohydrate)/kg/hr.  For a 170 pound athlete that is a range of 62-308 calories per hour - which isn't very instructive.  To further complicate matters the various suggestions on nutrition rarely, if ever, take into account how well an athlete utilizes fat for energy.  An athlete who more efficiently utilizes fat as an energy source will require fewer calories while an athlete with a less well developed aerobic engine will require more carbohydrate.

What all of this comes down to, as Deb pointed out, is that nutrition is highly individual.  There is a saying in triathlon, actually sports in general - "Nothing new on race day."  That is more true of nutrition that perhaps anything else.  We each need to find what works specifically for us.  A sports drink says it is designed for over three hour events?  That doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be used for shorter events or training.  Sports drinks are a very efficient and convenient way to take in calories.  I prefer some solid food during a long ride and have a couple of quartered peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with me on the bike.  Some people's GI system can't handle that.  I am a fan of nutrition in T1, again, some people's GI tract can't handle that.  YOU (metaphorically referring to athletes in general) need to determine in training what works for YOU.  I suggest you start with 240-320 calories per hour and adjust up or down based upon your training.

One last point, as I mentioned in my earlier post - coke (or whatever soda is available in the aid stations on race day) can be your best friend on race day.  Even when you have developed the "perfect" nutrition plan, it can still fall short.  We had a gentleman in the group a couple of years ago that did an Ironman in Japan.  He had developed his nutrition plan and tested, then retested the plan over and over in training.  Yet, on race day, for various reasons his plan failed him.  Coca-cola saved his race for him.