Rutgers Head Coach (Page 2)

I'm not sure what you're getting at.  Of course report it, but again,  if you throw a ball at me or shove me around, in anger,  I'm also going to report that I tried, with everything I had, to teach you that it really isn't worth the effort to treat someone that way because you may run across someone who just will not tolerate it.  I'm sure it's not right to alot of people, but I'm not built to stand there and take abuse without fighting back....I'm just not. 

I can't imagine someone thinking it wasn't right if one of those players would have decked that jerk....but I have no doubt that those folks exist.  That's OK with me.

I need to, agree.  But honestly, I can't stand that kind of crap.  I think I was beaten by a lunatic coach in a former life or something.

That, and having something thrown at me while I'm on my bike......they just don't make a big enough snickers.

Or, for that matter, pinching my arse while I'm on the podium kissing a cyclist.....just don't.

I'm taking time off from the arguing this week, so I'll just add my observations.

I felt the kids were in a rough spot.  We teach them to not let someone abuse them, but at the same time, we teach them to respect adults.  Maybe even more so if it's a coach when they tend to be pretty hard on you anyway.  Not always the nicest people.  You would expect some cursing and shouting at you and some rough pushing you around.  I know my coaches would grab me and pull me to the spot on the floor I needed to be and never thought anything of it.  And got yelled at, etc.

In my eyes, the coach obviously crossed the line and as a 40 yr old plus guy, it's easy to identify and fight back.  Maybe not when you are and 18-19 yr old kid.  It's easy to look from the outside in and see the abuse.  Also, if some random person did that to an 18yr old, they would know to fight back, but coming from a coach where some of that behavior is part of the package?  Plus I'm sure there was plenty of moments he was very encouraging and helpful (again, part of coaching).  In fact, I bet most of the time he was a positive coach but crossed the line on his rants.  We were fed an edited version only showing the altercations so easy to sit here and say "of COURSE" that unacceptable and should be easily identifiable. 

I bet it was very difficult for them to see what's going on.  I feel bad they got abused, then now they are getting chastised for not fighting back.  Lose lose.

Maybe like a drill sergeant in the military.  I'm sure they are not the sweetest guys.  They will abuse you, but I guess you need to determine when the abuse crosses a line.

Then of course the repercussions of reporting it.  In this case, it doesn't sound like it would have done anything since the administration knew about it months ago and STILL did nothing.  So now you turned in a coach, nothing happens to him, I wonder what the repercussions could have been?

Oh, and the president saying "I never watched the video" is such a bold face lie to me that it's insulting to my intelligence.  If someone from your staff says they have video evidence of some wrongdoing and it's severed up on a silver platter.  All you have to do is double click a link or press play on a DVD?  I can't imagine ANYONE saying, "nah, I'm not going to watch it".  Even for curiosity or just to prove it's NOT an issue, you would watch it.  How could you NOT see if it's something that could negatively affect you school/business?  I know you can't prove he watched it, but there is NO WAY he didn't watch it unless he is just so stupid or incompetent as a president he shouldn't have a job just for that reason.

Kido, my brother and I were talking about this on Friday.  He said, "remember the time that Mr. Howard threw that baseball at me?"...and we both broke up laughing.

I was probably 15 or 16 and my brother was 14.  Our baseball coach got pizzed off and threw a baseball at my brother and hit him in the middle of his back when he turned to get away from it.  My brother started launching bats and everything he could get his hands on at Howard.....the rest of us stood there watching as my brother went nuts.  Howard wouldn't even go near him when his tirade ended because he was still waving a baseball bat.  He eventually calmed down and they walked around the outfield for a bit and worked it out after Howard apologized. 

We told our dad about it and he said, "is it over?"...and when my brother told him it was that was that.

That was around 1974.  We just weren't raised to take abuse from anyone.  Maybe you're right, maybe most kids aren't raised that way today.  Still, I wouldn't try to shove my 15 year old around and expect him not to fight back.

Well, you and your family are obviously exceptional...

I don't think most 14 yr old kids would throw bats at a coach/adult for throwing a baseball at them.  Maybe more should.

I'm guessing retaliation towards an authority figure might not come as easy to a lot of kids.  Hence my sympathy for them.  They must have been put in a very awkward spot.  Playing college ball was/is probably VERY important to them.  Maybe for some, a chance to get an education or "a way out".

They might be stuck with taking a lot more abuse to keep that dream alive.  I bet it's hard for a 19yr-old to stand up to their coach, even if it's the right thing to do, if by doing that it can get them kicked off a team, or out of college, and lose their dream or chance to make it.

We're not exceptional.....we're Irish.  

The other thing is....no, they won't be kicked off the team, or anything else....hell, look what happened in this case.  Everybody but the kids are in trouble and out of a job.  Not one of those kids would have been in trouble for standing up for himself or his teammates.

I'm sorry, you don't get to physically abuse people....and if you do, you risk getting your clock cleaned in one way or another depending on who you are abusing.  To just take it.....no, it's wrong on every level.

See, and I think the same when I read your posts.....go figure.

Eh....different generations.  There is much more whining and much less actually "doing something" about bad behavior than there used to be.  In fact, whining about bad behavior has become so prevalent that people tend to whine about ANY behavior today.

A good fistfight was good enough to settle things when I was coming of age.....look where we are now.....improvement?  Hardly.

My brother, sister, and I were raised to treat people with respect, and to not settle for anything less from others.  We were also taught to always stand up for ourselves and NEVER let anyone put their hands on us in anger.  I raise my children the same.

There is no doubt in my mind that if a teacher, coach, or any other adult grabbed my son or shoved him, in anger, that my son would fight.  I'm fine with that.  If you are an adult and you don't want to possibly get punched by a kid, keep your damn hands off of him.

Sorry, no child who fights back toward an adult who physically abused him will ever "pay for it".  The adult will pay, but the child will not.  Same with the Rutger players....none of them would have "paid for it".  People in positions of authority don't get to abuse those under them....and if they do, there are all kinds of repercussions....an old fashion arse whipping being one of them.  I'll grant you that you can't just punch anyone who is out of line physically......but for pete's sake , watch the tape....no way Rice gets away with that with some kids.....no way.

Nice try Tony.....at what poiint are we talking about "bad-mouthing"?  Who cares what someone SAYS?  Words...so what.  Did you even watch the tape?  Go ahead and kick me, or grab me and shove me around, see what happens.  Like I've said, I may win or lose, but we're going to find out.  The same goes for my son....go ahead and treat him that way....let me know how that goes for you....see if you want to do it again.

I think fighting back while the abuse is happening is self defense and acceptable.  Fighting back after a ball is thrown at you is retaliation, IMO.  There could be a fine line between self defense and retaliation, and to teach kids to fight back any time someone lays hand on you in anger is not always the right answer.

If a teacher angrily grabs your arm to pull you to the principles office because you're acting out?  The police?  Punch back?  Maybe they SHOULDN'T be putting hands on you and should just ask nicely to go the principle's office or get into the car.

Self defense is one thing to protect yourself.  Responding to violence with violence is not always the answer and the line gets blurry between self defense and retaliation.

No Pitt...I NEVER said that.  But I'm not going to get physical with someone calling me names....I just don't care.  As for hurtful....meh.....maybe for others, but not for me.  I've been called every name you can possibly think of while I'm working....again, I  don't care.

However, don't put your hands on me or my family in anger.  I will fight you.  Note that I didn't say I would kick your arse or anything of the sort.....I simply said I will fight. 

You know, if you leave your hands off of people, and don't abuse others, you never have to worry about it.  Once again the argument gets sidetracked away from the actual bad behavior.  Typical.

Kido, you are on a roll!  Great response.

Self-defense is acceptable.  Resorting to retaliation sinks you to the level of the offender.

The most mature response would take a heck of a human being.  I don't fault the players for not having the fortitude to report the coach's despicable actions earlier, I credit them for not retaliating.

In an ideal world, the 1st time this bully kicked, shoved, or threw a ball at one of the players, the players would huddle up and go straight to the a.d.  

...and btw, the vile anti-homosexual crap he spewed was 100% unacceptable too.

ChineseD......do we really have to resort to the kinds of scenarios that little kids try to nit pick with?  I don't know about your kids, but mine CLEARLY understand the types of situations I am refering to, even if you don't.

And no, I'm not for retaliation of any sort after the fact.  But if you put your hands on me or mine, in anger, I'm fighting.  It's self defense...it always has been, it always will be.  I will do everything in my power to make it stop immediately.  I raise my kids the same.

Watch the tape...some of those kids tried to do just that....he went after them again.  What if he pushes them to the ground from behind because they walked away?  No!  Don't put your damn hands on me.

And your "we don't take no chit because we are tough guys" label is a bunch of hogwash.  Hell, I've taken more chit than you can shovel......who cares?  My point is that you will NOT put your hands on me in anger without a fight from me.

As for the punch from the kid "in anger"......you obviously don't get it.  It is self-defense....it has been since the beginning of time.

Not in the morning I don't.  I'm tired of cleaning up that mess.

I'm finally offended.....who do I run and cry to?

I get what you are saying here and to be honest, I agree.  I had a football coach grab my shoulder pads and shove me one time and I instinctively gave him a short but fast palm heel to the solar plexus.  I immediately felt that it was wrong but it seemed he knew what he did was wrong as well.  He walked away trying to hide his inability to breath and I walked around the next week, wondering if I was going to get thrown off the team or out of school.  It was creepy and very uncomfortable.  The incident lasted all of about 2-3 seconds so nobody actually saw what happened and I didn't say anything at the time.  I just wanted it to blow over.