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Impeach the FDA (Page 2)
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 2010-04-20 2:56 PM in reply to: #2804974 |
 Subject: RE: Impeach the FDAOpus - 2010-04-20 12:11 PM crusevegas - 2010-04-20 2:45 PM Opus - 2010-04-20 11:42 AM crusevegas - 2010-04-20 2:39 PM Opus - 2010-04-20 9:53 AM crusevegas - 2010-04-20 12:31 PM One of the things they could do would be to put an excessive tax on it so that the cost of salt would be prohibitive to use except for all but the wealthiest, kind of like what they do with tobacco now.
Maybe the tax just isn't high enough yet? That's awesome! I was fooled into thinking that homeless dude who was smoking was poor, but now I see he must be one of our wealthiest citizens! Hummmm, are you saying that sin taxes like they have on tobacco don't stop the poor folks from using the product? I thought that was part of the reason the federal govt. put them on such items. I don't know the reasons gov'ts put in sin taxes. If they do it to discourage the poor, I would say they have failed. Do you think when the federal govt puts a tax on something that it would have the effect of increasing consumption or decreasing consumption? Do you think that it would be more punative on the poor than on the wealthy? I'm not sure what we're discussing here. I would think that, on average if you increase taxes - assuming all other variables stay the same - the effect would be that consumption would go down. Of course, this would not hold true for essential items where consumer demand is outside of the control of the consumer and would be less true (at least in the short term) for items that are addictive. Of course, this is just my gut feeling. Regarding the punitive nature of taxes, it depends on how you define punitive. If the poor continue to smoke after taxes have gone up, the relative effect of a tax hike would be higher than on the rich. If, on the other hand, the effect of the tax hike were really to reduce the number of smokers, thereby improving the overall health of the poor, the effect of the tax hike would harm the rich more. I answered these questions for fun, but I'm not exactly sure what your point is. I was just responding to your post. I'm a little confused, when I argue for the Federal govt. to get smaller and out of our lives you find fault with my logic, now I'm saying yep, it's time the federal govt. (I've seen the light, bigger govt. telling us what to do is the way of the future, get on the bus or leave the country I guess) takes control of our actions becasue as a people we are not responsible enough to make good decisions for ourselves and now you are telling me again my logic if flawed. You havne't gone over to the dark side at the same time I left it have you? |
| 2010-04-20 3:24 PM in reply to: #2805113 |
Pro  4311   Texas | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA eberulf - 2010-04-20 2:50 PM This is another example of the nanny state. This is a slippery slope. Is the amount of fat in our foods next? Sugar? Serving sizes? Time of day eaten? When does it end? How much of our tax dollars will go this program? I don't like it at all. Judging by the size of the average American, maybe they need a Nanny. |
| 2010-04-20 3:26 PM in reply to: #2805113 |
Extreme Veteran 429 | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA eberulf - 2010-04-20 2:50 PM This is another example of the nanny state. This is a slippery slope. Is the amount of fat in our foods next? Sugar? Serving sizes? Time of day eaten? When does it end? How much of our tax dollars will go this program? I don't like it at all. x2. |
| 2010-04-20 3:58 PM in reply to: #2805219 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA JBrashear - 2010-04-20 4:24 PM eberulf - 2010-04-20 2:50 PM This is another example of the nanny state. This is a slippery slope. Is the amount of fat in our foods next? Sugar? Serving sizes? Time of day eaten? When does it end? How much of our tax dollars will go this program? I don't like it at all. Judging by the size of the average American, maybe they need a Nanny.Oh sure.. it's all fun and games until they come for your 1st KFC double down. It has to be in violation of federal salt laws. Which end will they start from when they begin the extraction? |
| 2010-04-20 4:41 PM in reply to: #2805219 |
| Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA JBrashear - 2010-04-20 1:24 PM eberulf - 2010-04-20 2:50 PM This is another example of the nanny state. This is a slippery slope. Is the amount of fat in our foods next? Sugar? Serving sizes? Time of day eaten? When does it end? How much of our tax dollars will go this program? I don't like it at all. Judging by the size of the average American, maybe they need a Nanny.They train bartenders/servers NOT to serve someone who has had to much to drink. Why not train restaurant employees to limit what someone can buy based on some Federal Govt. criteria? Like sorry sir/ma'am you can not have that supersized, you are already. |
| 2010-04-20 5:12 PM in reply to: #2805442 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA How much do you want to bet the lunches currently served in public schools are already way over the recommended sodium limits. I ask my son every day what he had for lunch and it's "cheese pizza" or "cheeseburger and fries"? Also, where is the ACLU when I finally need them to defend my civil liberty to eat what I want to eat? |
| 2010-04-20 7:09 PM in reply to: #2804026 |
Master 1963 | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA Yet another terrible idea that will cost a fortune to implement, do little improve much of anything, all while further eroding personal liberty and responsibility. If you want to eat less salt, eat less salt. Edited by merlin2375 2010-04-20 7:10 PM |
| 2010-04-20 8:14 PM in reply to: #2805442 |
Pro 4311 Texas | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA crusevegas - 2010-04-20 4:41 PM JBrashear - 2010-04-20 1:24 PM eberulf - 2010-04-20 2:50 PM This is another example of the nanny state. This is a slippery slope. Is the amount of fat in our foods next? Sugar? Serving sizes? Time of day eaten? When does it end? How much of our tax dollars will go this program? I don't like it at all. Judging by the size of the average American, maybe they need a Nanny.They train bartenders/servers NOT to serve someone who has had to much to drink. Why not train restaurant employees to limit what someone can buy based on some Federal Govt. criteria? Like sorry sir/ma'am you can not have that supersized, you are already. I'd kill for video of the first day at any McDonald's when that gets implemented. |
| 2010-04-20 8:20 PM in reply to: #2805814 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA JBrashear - 2010-04-20 9:14 PM crusevegas - 2010-04-20 4:41 PM I'd kill for video of the first day at any McDonald's when that gets implemented.JBrashear - 2010-04-20 1:24 PM eberulf - 2010-04-20 2:50 PM This is another example of the nanny state. This is a slippery slope. Is the amount of fat in our foods next? Sugar? Serving sizes? Time of day eaten? When does it end? How much of our tax dollars will go this program? I don't like it at all. Judging by the size of the average American, maybe they need a Nanny.They train bartenders/servers NOT to serve someone who has had to much to drink. Why not train restaurant employees to limit what someone can buy based on some Federal Govt. criteria? Like sorry sir/ma'am you can not have that supersized, you are already. Why did I get a flashback to a scene out of the movie Norbit? |
| 2010-04-20 8:49 PM in reply to: #2805663 |
Pro 6767 the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA merlin2375 - 2010-04-20 8:09 PM Yet another terrible idea that will cost a fortune to implement, do little improve much of anything, all while further eroding personal liberty and responsibility. If you want to eat less salt, eat less salt. So if you want to eat less salt, you should cook all your own food from scratch? Because the problem, as I read it, is that there is a lot of salt in processed foods - basically anything that is not just ingredients. And the industry has been asked to make voluntary reductions, and has not. Hence the FDA's taking things up a notch. |
| 2010-04-20 8:59 PM in reply to: #2805131 |
| Pro 4040 | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA crusevegas - 2010-04-20 3:56 PM
I was just responding to your post. I'm a little confused, when I argue for the Federal govt. to get smaller and out of our lives you find fault with my logic, now I'm saying yep, it's time the federal govt. (I've seen the light, bigger govt. telling us what to do is the way of the future, get on the bus or leave the country I guess) takes control of our actions becasue as a people we are not responsible enough to make good decisions for ourselves and now you are telling me again my logic if flawed. You havne't gone over to the dark side at the same time I left it have you? Oh, I see. Actually I just kind of don't really understand your logic, which is why I find fault with it. Maybe we have to take a more structured approach to explain what our positions are, and then use arguments to back them up. For example, I don't know if you are arguing against the high taxes on cigarettes, because clearly the poor are some of the biggest consumers of tobacco. And I'm not really sure if your concern is that the high taxes deny the poor the pleasures of tobacco and for that reason you believe that the fed should get out of that business. See? Just a misunderstanding, I'm sure. ETA: I actually support the freedom to eat yourself to death. Edited by Opus 2010-04-20 9:02 PM |
| 2010-04-20 9:06 PM in reply to: #2804026 |
Veteran 399 Puyallup, WA | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA Society is produced by our wants, and government by our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness POSITIVELY by uniting our affections, the latter NEGATIVELY by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher. Thomas Paine, Common Sense |
| 2010-04-20 9:16 PM in reply to: #2805889 |
| Master 1963 | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA gearboy - 2010-04-20 9:49 PM If cooking your food from scratch is what it takes to achieve the desired salt content then, yes, one should cook from scratch. Snack on salt-free carrots instead of salt-laden chips, etc, etc. One could also shop for low sodium foods or shop at alternate grocery stores where there is more of a focus on "health". There's lots of choice out there.merlin2375 - 2010-04-20 8:09 PM Yet another terrible idea that will cost a fortune to implement, do little improve much of anything, all while further eroding personal liberty and responsibility. If you want to eat less salt, eat less salt. So if you want to eat less salt, you should cook all your own food from scratch? Because the problem, as I read it, is that there is a lot of salt in processed foods - basically anything that is not just ingredients. And the industry has been asked to make voluntary reductions, and has not. Hence the FDA's taking things up a notch. If enough people really cared or did that then the food manufacturers would follow suit. |
| 2010-04-20 10:20 PM in reply to: #2805949 |
Pro 6767 the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA merlin2375 - 2010-04-20 10:16 PM If cooking your food from scratch is what it takes to achieve the desired salt content then, yes, one should cook from scratch. Snack on salt-free carrots instead of salt-laden chips, etc, etc. One could also shop for low sodium foods or shop at alternate grocery stores where there is more of a focus on "health". There's lots of choice out there. If enough people really cared or did that then the food manufacturers would follow suit. I don't think it is unreasonable for people to want both the convenience of pre-packaged foods and also to have less salt in their diets. Clearly if a food can be made from scratch with less sodium, it can likely be made in a factory with less. But instead, industry has ratcheted up the salt content, changing the palette over the past 10-20 years, so that foods with less salt taste less "tasty" to americans. One example, to me, is the existence of "lightly salted butter". Why is there salt in the butter in the first place? We DO go out of our way when we cook with butter, to use pure butter, with no added salt. But there is no reason to have the salt there in the first place, except to get us used to salty flavors and then sneak it in more foods. To say industry will follow the consumer is rather naive. Think of the airlines - nobody likes to pay for checking luggage, but all the carriers now do it. If it makes them money, and we have few convenient alternatives, they have us by the short and curlies. Sure, I could take a train or bus, for less money. But it is a lot more time consuming. Same thing with getting prepared foods. |
| 2010-04-20 10:37 PM in reply to: #2804026 |
| Master 1963 | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA I don't think it is unreasonable for people to want both the convenience of pre-packaged foods and also to have less salt in their diets. Clearly if a food can be made from scratch with less sodium, it can likely be made in a factory with less. But instead, industry has ratcheted up the salt content, changing the palette over the past 10-20 years, so that foods with less salt taste less "tasty" to americans. I don't disagree with you as far as it being reasonable to want pre-packed food with less salt nor do I disagree with you on your lightly salted butter example. If this were a thread about the choices we make and the foods we like/don't like/purchase/don't purchase then we could argue the merits of salt (which by the way are not 100% clear in terms of the risks for a majority of people) but this thread is about the Government trying to take over yet another thing to "save us from ourselves". I can't think of a more amazing set of choices than in the supermarket (and choices of Supermarkets), literally something for everyone. Tons of aisles with a ton of products not to mention good old produce.One example, to me, is the existence of "lightly salted butter". Why is there salt in the butter in the first place? We DO go out of our way when we cook with butter, to use pure butter, with no added salt. But there is no reason to have the salt there in the first place, except to get us used to salty flavors and then sneak it in more foods. To say industry will follow the consumer is rather naive. Think of the airlines - nobody likes to pay for checking luggage, but all the carriers now do it. If it makes them money, and we have few convenient alternatives, they have us by the short and curlies. Sure, I could take a train or bus, for less money. But it is a lot more time consuming. Same thing with getting prepared foods. One can exercise their choice and they should. |
| 2010-04-20 10:55 PM in reply to: #2806062 |
| Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA gearboy - 2010-04-20 8:20 PM merlin2375 - 2010-04-20 10:16 PM If cooking your food from scratch is what it takes to achieve the desired salt content then, yes, one should cook from scratch. Snack on salt-free carrots instead of salt-laden chips, etc, etc. One could also shop for low sodium foods or shop at alternate grocery stores where there is more of a focus on "health". There's lots of choice out there. If enough people really cared or did that then the food manufacturers would follow suit. I don't think it is unreasonable for people to want both the convenience of pre-packaged foods and also to have less salt in their diets. Clearly if a food can be made from scratch with less sodium, it can likely be made in a factory with less. But instead, industry has ratcheted up the salt content, changing the palette over the past 10-20 years, so that foods with less salt taste less "tasty" to americans. One example, to me, is the existence of "lightly salted butter". Why is there salt in the butter in the first place? We DO go out of our way when we cook with butter, to use pure butter, with no added salt. But there is no reason to have the salt there in the first place, except to get us used to salty flavors and then sneak it in more foods. To say industry will follow the consumer is rather naive. Think of the airlines - nobody likes to pay for checking luggage, but all the carriers now do it. If it makes them money, and we have few convenient alternatives, they have us by the short and curlies. Sure, I could take a train or bus, for less money. But it is a lot more time consuming. Same thing with getting prepared foods. Butter with salt will last longer, this is why the professional chefs say to get the un-salted as it is more likely to be fresher. One of the reasons that the airline industry has the baggage fee instead of tacking it onto the ticket the airlines pay I think 7.5% to the feds for tickets no such fee for non essential charges like luggage.
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| 2010-04-21 8:49 AM in reply to: #2806116 |
Champion 14571 the alamo city, Texas | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA crusevegas - 2010-04-20 11:55 PM gearboy - 2010-04-20 8:20 PM merlin2375 - 2010-04-20 10:16 PM If cooking your food from scratch is what it takes to achieve the desired salt content then, yes, one should cook from scratch. Snack on salt-free carrots instead of salt-laden chips, etc, etc. One could also shop for low sodium foods or shop at alternate grocery stores where there is more of a focus on "health". There's lots of choice out there. If enough people really cared or did that then the food manufacturers would follow suit. I don't think it is unreasonable for people to want both the convenience of pre-packaged foods and also to have less salt in their diets. Clearly if a food can be made from scratch with less sodium, it can likely be made in a factory with less. But instead, industry has ratcheted up the salt content, changing the palette over the past 10-20 years, so that foods with less salt taste less "tasty" to americans. One example, to me, is the existence of "lightly salted butter". Why is there salt in the butter in the first place? We DO go out of our way when we cook with butter, to use pure butter, with no added salt. But there is no reason to have the salt there in the first place, except to get us used to salty flavors and then sneak it in more foods. To say industry will follow the consumer is rather naive. Think of the airlines - nobody likes to pay for checking luggage, but all the carriers now do it. If it makes them money, and we have few convenient alternatives, they have us by the short and curlies. Sure, I could take a train or bus, for less money. But it is a lot more time consuming. Same thing with getting prepared foods. Butter with salt will last longer, this is why the professional chefs say to get the un-salted as it is more likely to be fresher. One of the reasons that the airline industry has the baggage fee instead of tacking it onto the ticket the airlines pay I think 7.5% to the feds for tickets no such fee for non essential charges like luggage.
ditto - salt is usually added to pre-packaged foods to make it last longer - i'd prefer salt over some of the other things they add to foods that make it last longer (shudder) i buy the absolute minimum amount of stuff with an ingredients panel, and still have tons of convenient snacks on hand (nuts, bananas) or cook food to have it ready whenever i'm hungry. and i like to add LOTS of salt in my food. YUM YUM YUM. Edited by meherczeg 2010-04-21 8:50 AM |
| 2010-04-21 9:35 AM in reply to: #2804026 |
Champion 5868 Urbandale, IA | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA The largest problem I have with this -and this is purely from the report since there is no official communication from the FDA - is the fact that it seems the FDA will be picking and choosing the types of products that they will "target" for salt reduction. I don't like that (really, I don't like the whole thing, but....) becasue I think it sets up for more corruption in an already bribe laden government and administration (food and drug - not Obama). So, the FDA says let's start with bread, soup and nuts. First, this makes no sense because they already have these products avaialabe (low sodium breads, soups and nuts) and most people don't buy them. So, instead, the FDA is going to force a reduction and "hide" it from the consumer. Hmmmmmm. Now, when a powerful, current government friendly group is "targeted" (remember this is supposed to be a 10 year plan and there could well be two changes over that time) who is to say that there will be no backroom meeting about laying off said industry on this thing. What about products that we eat or drink because we WANT more sodium. Does a sports drink with lesss sopdium do us any good? What's to stop Betty Hypertension from grabbing a Gatorade at the local convenience store? I know that's a lot of arguments against in two paragraphs, but, this has stink, stank, stunk written all over it. |
| 2010-04-21 9:49 AM in reply to: #2804026 |
Supersonicus Idioticus 2439 Thunder Bay, ON | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA Hypertensive here. I love this idea, and this is why: I try to reduce my sodium intake. But if I don't have enough time to BAKE MY OWN BREAD for the week, I have to eat store-bought bread. Two slices contain 17% of my daily recommended salt intake. And some times, if I don't have a left over chicken breast to place on that store-bought bread, and I have to eat salami, that is ~40% of my intake... for one sandwich. Honestly guys, when you eat less salt, you don't notice it. Then when you try salty foods again, they taste awful. |
| 2010-04-21 10:04 AM in reply to: #2806802 |
Champion 14571 the alamo city, Texas | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA So Fresh So Clean - 2010-04-21 10:49 AM Hypertensive here. I love this idea, and this is why: I try to reduce my sodium intake. But if I don't have enough time to BAKE MY OWN BREAD for the week, I have to eat store-bought bread. Two slices contain 17% of my daily recommended salt intake. And some times, if I don't have a left over chicken breast to place on that store-bought bread, and I have to eat salami, that is ~40% of my intake... for one sandwich. Honestly guys, when you eat less salt, you don't notice it. Then when you try salty foods again, they taste awful. So the FDA has to regulate foods because you are on a diet? Why do you even have salami in your house if you are a hypertensive, I'm pretty sure there is no other way to make salami than using lots of salt (the words have the same root, after all). |
| 2010-04-21 11:47 AM in reply to: #2806597 |
Pro 6767 the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA meherczeg - 2010-04-21 9:49 AM ditto - salt is usually added to pre-packaged foods to make it last longer - i'd prefer salt over some of the other things they add to foods that make it last longer (shudder) i buy the absolute minimum amount of stuff with an ingredients panel, and still have tons of convenient snacks on hand (nuts, bananas) or cook food to have it ready whenever i'm hungry. and i like to add LOTS of salt in my food. YUM YUM YUM. No one is saying if you want salt that you can't add it. And if you do so, you will know how much salt you are consuming. The issue as I understand it is that if you DON'T want to have the salt, it is very difficult to avoid. You mentioned prefering the salt to "other things they add". Well, suppose the industry decided that those other things were cheaper than salt. And used them instead of salt in all the foods you like. And refused to make voluntary reductions. Would it still seem unreasonable to you to have the government agency in charge of food and drug safety take a more active role in reducing your exposure to those "other things"? |
| 2010-04-21 11:56 AM in reply to: #2804404 |
Veteran 561 Arden Hills, MN | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA DerekL - 2010-04-20 11:45 AM This is ridiculous. Salt isn't an issue for people without health problems. If you have health problems requiring the restriction of salt, you can choose foods lower in salt for yourself. What he said!! |
| 2010-04-21 12:14 PM in reply to: #2807225 |
| Master 1963 | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA gearboy - 2010-04-21 12:47 PM No one is saying if you want salt that you can't add it. And if you do so, you will know how much salt you are consuming. The issue as I understand it is that if you DON'T want to have the salt, it is very difficult to avoid. I haven't seen consumer packaging that doesn't list the salt content and percentage of daily value right on it. |
| 2010-04-21 12:36 PM in reply to: #2807225 |
Champion 14571 the alamo city, Texas | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA gearboy - 2010-04-21 12:47 PM meherczeg - 2010-04-21 9:49 AM ditto - salt is usually added to pre-packaged foods to make it last longer - i'd prefer salt over some of the other things they add to foods that make it last longer (shudder) i buy the absolute minimum amount of stuff with an ingredients panel, and still have tons of convenient snacks on hand (nuts, bananas) or cook food to have it ready whenever i'm hungry. and i like to add LOTS of salt in my food. YUM YUM YUM. No one is saying if you want salt that you can't add it. And if you do so, you will know how much salt you are consuming. The issue as I understand it is that if you DON'T want to have the salt, it is very difficult to avoid. You mentioned prefering the salt to "other things they add". Well, suppose the industry decided that those other things were cheaper than salt. And used them instead of salt in all the foods you like. And refused to make voluntary reductions. Would it still seem unreasonable to you to have the government agency in charge of food and drug safety take a more active role in reducing your exposure to those "other things"? The other things are becoming cheaper. I don't trust anything produced by Kraft anymore. Like I said, I don't buy processed foods to avoid all of that. (Disclaimer: I work in the processed food industry.) |
| 2010-04-21 12:43 PM in reply to: #2807324 |
Champion 15211 Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL | Subject: RE: Impeach the FDA merlin2375 - 2010-04-21 12:14 PM gearboy - 2010-04-21 12:47 PM No one is saying if you want salt that you can't add it. And if you do so, you will know how much salt you are consuming. The issue as I understand it is that if you DON'T want to have the salt, it is very difficult to avoid. I haven't seen consumer packaging that doesn't list the salt content and percentage of daily value right on it.Yep. Sodium has to be listed. By law. |
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