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2008-03-25 3:04 PM
in reply to: #1292781

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Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
Daremo - 2008-03-25 2:54 PM

Comment .......

There is no correlation that eating before bed gains weight.  The only thing eating before going to bed has been shown to do is lead to more cases of indigestion in the middle of the night (mainly because you are lying down to digest instead of standing).

Your stomach doesn't care if you are awake or asleep, it is still doing it's job.  AND you still have 6 - 8 hours of digestion before you are eating again.

To Ranger?  Your co-worker is that ignorant ....... you are correct there.



From what I've read, the main problem with eating right before bed isn't necessarily the eating part, but what you eat. In fact, it's recommended to have some type of slow burning protein (casein for example, such as what's found in cottage cheese and other dairy products) combined with a fat within two hours or so before turning in. Metabolism still burns and the body still needs fuel while you sleep.

The problem arises when too many carbs are consumed before bedtime. Carbs are the body's first fuel source, and if carbs are consumed before going to sleep, they won't get burned off, will be stored, and will eventually metabolize into fat.



2008-03-25 3:05 PM
in reply to: #1292585

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Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?

Maybe because I have gone from doing no exercise to becoming a workout junkie in 6 weeks, I have no tolerance anymore for people who tell me they can't find time to workout.  Unless athletics or fitness is your job, no one has time.  Everyone has different time constraints.  I have 2 kids under the age of 3 and a very understanding spouse, which makes my time 5:30-7:00am or 7:00-9:00pm to workout.  I marvel at some of you fellow BTers who are single parents or have 3+ kids and still find time to train.  I guess if you want to exercise and want to be/get/stay healthy, you will make the time, rather than trying to find time to do it.

2008-03-25 3:08 PM
in reply to: #1292585

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Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?

Are people this ignorant?

 

Is that a rhetorical question?

 

 

2008-03-25 3:08 PM
in reply to: #1292814

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Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?

dogfacedgremlin34 - 2008-03-25 4:04 PM The problem arises when too many carbs are consumed before bedtime. Carbs are the body's first fuel source, and if carbs are consumed before going to sleep, they won't get burned off, will be stored, and will eventually metabolize into fat.

And what is the difference if you eat a meal with a lot of carbs 3 or 4 hours before going to bed??  Still the same result because I guarantee most people are not working off those carbs before bed.  They are winding down from a hard day and getting ready for sleep ........

That is not a timing issue, that is a food consumption issue.



Edited by Daremo 2008-03-25 3:09 PM
2008-03-25 3:09 PM
in reply to: #1292585

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Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
The modern mentailty for EVERYTHING is "I'm fine the way I am". So even if people "want" to be different, they don't see that they need to change things in their life to achieve it.
2008-03-25 3:10 PM
in reply to: #1292827

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Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
Daremo - 2008-03-25 3:08 PM

dogfacedgremlin34 - 2008-03-25 4:04 PM The problem arises when too many carbs are consumed before bedtime. Carbs are the body's first fuel source, and if carbs are consumed before going to sleep, they won't get burned off, will be stored, and will eventually metabolize into fat.

And what is the difference if you eat a meal with a lot of carbs 3 or 4 hours before going to bed??  Still the same result ........

That is not a timing issue, that is a food consumption issue.



Not necessarily. In fact, most dietary guidelines now suggest that--assuming you eat five or six smaller meals a day--as opposed to the traditional three big ones--you consume the bulk of your carbs in the morning; throughout the course of the day, one should consume fewer and fewer carbs as a percentage of the meal. Your last meal of the evening should contain little or no carbs since--as I mentioned earlier--they're unlikely to be burned, and will be stored in the body where it will eventually metabolize into fat.

In regards to your 3 or 4 hours before bedtime situation goes, true people are unwinding from a long day. But their metabolic burn consists of BASAL RATE + ANY ACTIVITY. Activity 3 to 4 hours before bed can consist of walking to the bathroom, typing on the computer, taking off one's makeup, going up stairs to go to bed, etc. Each one of these activities burns a certain degree of calories.

When sleeping, you have your BASAL RATE and virtually no activity (turning over in bed, perhaps a bathroom visit or two). That's the caloric burn differnce. But again, if an individual is looking to lose weight, he/she shouldn't be consuming the bulk of their daily carbohydrate intake from dinnertime onwards anyways.

Edited by dogfacedgremlin34 2008-03-25 3:21 PM


2008-03-25 3:16 PM
in reply to: #1292795

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Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
lfrick - 2008-03-25 3:57 PM

lorabby - 2008-03-25 2:47 PM

o cut 'em some slack. They aren't ignorant, they just have blind spots. Maybe they were making small talk. Fitness is overrated anyway. There've been lots of really accomplished fat folk, Orson Wells, Luciano Pavarotti, Aretha...




I think Aretha ate Orson and Luciano


o gawd. ya'll are a bunch of born again fitness freaks. In the grand scheme of things, brains and heart matter more than body fat ratio.
just sayin
2008-03-25 3:17 PM
in reply to: #1292834

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Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?

dogfacedgremlin34 - 2008-03-25 4:10 PM  Not necessarily. In fact, most dietary structures now suggest you consume the bulk of your carbs in the morning, and whittle it down throughout the course of the day. Your last meal of the evening should contain little or no carbs since, as I mentioned earlier, they're unlikely to be burned, will be stored as excess glycogen, and will metabolize into fat.

Yes, that works in theory ... but the reality is still a different thing.  People in general are getting MORE carbs into their diet, and unless you are a high-activity person like most triathletes and endurance athletes are, it won't matter, the average person will still be overloading their glycogen levels.  And since the body will only store so much, the rest has to go somewhere (fat stores).

Once again, it is not a timing issue.  It does not matter if you eat a lot of carbs in the evening or in the morning, if you are not doing the activities to balance your caloric intake you will gain weight.

I agree 100% that there are better ways to eat.  Nutrition is extermely misunderstood by the majority of people.  Stuff like food combining, proper serving sizes, fluid intake, etc. are all balanced parts of eating right.  But the idea that eating right before bed is a weight gaining problem is a myth, not science.  Eating too much crap any time of the day and not balancing energy burning activities is what causes the weight gain.  It doesn't matter if you are taking in "X" grams of carb in the morning or evening in a 24 hour period ........ if you are not burning enough calories in that 24 hour period to cover that intake you will retain stuff ..........



Edited by Daremo 2008-03-25 3:19 PM
2008-03-25 3:19 PM
in reply to: #1292783

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Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
kanders - 2008-03-25 3:55 PM

Rather than being angry about it, can we teach instead?

As somebody who still has a little extra weight to get rid of from having been off for a few months, and who used to have more of it, I can't see this type of stuff without thinking that the anger is misplaced and could be hurtful to some of the true "Beginner triathletes" out there, and make them feel unwelcome. Yeah, it's hard to hear people justify and make excuses, but take your extra energy and put it into motivating and plain talk, not cut downs.

I like what whoever said above about responding to stuff like that with "call me and we can go to the gym." We are facing an epidemic in this country, but it's going to take a lot of positive small steps to get us out of it.

Now this is good stuff.

Complaining is easy. It's not so different from sitting on the couch eating a bag of chips. It's effortless and gives a measure of good feeling, if only for the moment.

Now doing something, like going for a run or making a better food choice, or offering to help or even just having a bit of compassion...those can be hard.

But generally they're worth it. 

2008-03-25 3:21 PM
in reply to: #1292848

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Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?

lorabby - 2008-03-25 4:16 PM o gawd. ya'll are a bunch of born again fitness freaks. In the grand scheme of things, brains and heart matter more than body fat ratio. just sayin

Just a point here... Y'all is spelled y'all, not ya'll. Y'all is a contraction of You all, and as such, should be y'all.

As a born and bred southerner, this just one of my pet peeves.

Just sayin'

You may carry on now...

2008-03-25 3:22 PM
in reply to: #1292860

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Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
SuzanneS - 2008-03-25 4:21 PM

lorabby - 2008-03-25 4:16 PM o gawd. ya'll are a bunch of born again fitness freaks. In the grand scheme of things, brains and heart matter more than body fat ratio. just sayin

Just a point here... Y'all is spelled y'all, not ya'll. Y'all is a contraction of You all, and as such, should be y'all.

As a born and bred southerner, this just one of my pet peeves.

Just sayin'

You may carry on now...



wha thank yew, kind miss.


2008-03-25 3:23 PM
in reply to: #1292853

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Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
marmadaddy - 2008-03-25 3:19 PM
kanders - 2008-03-25 3:55 PM

Rather than being angry about it, can we teach instead?

As somebody who still has a little extra weight to get rid of from having been off for a few months, and who used to have more of it, I can't see this type of stuff without thinking that the anger is misplaced and could be hurtful to some of the true "Beginner triathletes" out there, and make them feel unwelcome. Yeah, it's hard to hear people justify and make excuses, but take your extra energy and put it into motivating and plain talk, not cut downs.

I like what whoever said above about responding to stuff like that with "call me and we can go to the gym." We are facing an epidemic in this country, but it's going to take a lot of positive small steps to get us out of it.

Now this is good stuff.

Complaining is easy. It's not so different from sitting on the couch eating a bag of chips. It's effortless and gives a measure of good feeling, if only for the moment.

Now doing something, like going for a run or making a better food choice, or offering to help or even just having a bit of compassion...those can be hard.

But generally they're worth it. 

{Blushing} - Thanks, Mike!  You're exactly right -- complaining is easier than mentoring.  One of the things I love about BT is that it takes a very open attitude toward everybody - helping them from the place they're at (whether that is rank beginner or highly experienced).

2008-03-25 3:23 PM
in reply to: #1292860

Subject: ...
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2008-03-25 3:24 PM
in reply to: #1292873

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Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
wgraves7582 - 2008-03-25 4:23 PM

SuzanneS - 2008-03-25 4:21 PM

lorabby - 2008-03-25 4:16 PM o gawd. ya'll are a bunch of born again fitness freaks. In the grand scheme of things, brains and heart matter more than body fat ratio. just sayin

Just a point here... Y'all is spelled y'all, not ya'll. Y'all is a contraction of You all, and as such, should be y'all.

As a born and bred southerner, this just one of my pet peeves.

Just sayin'

You may carry on now...



And I love southern women so please respect the lady and the correct pronunciation and spelling of y'all. Thank you very much ma'am for pointing this error out. Have a beautiful southern day!


ok, hijack ovah (now DAT is bronx for "over").
2008-03-25 3:27 PM
in reply to: #1292851

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Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
Daremo - 2008-03-25 3:17 PM

dogfacedgremlin34 - 2008-03-25 4:10 PM  Not necessarily. In fact, most dietary structures now suggest you consume the bulk of your carbs in the morning, and whittle it down throughout the course of the day. Your last meal of the evening should contain little or no carbs since, as I mentioned earlier, they're unlikely to be burned, will be stored as excess glycogen, and will metabolize into fat.

Yes, that works in theory ... but the reality is still a different thing.  People in general are getting MORE carbs into their diet, and unless you are a high-activity person like most triathletes and endurance athletes are, it won't matter, the average person will still be overloading their glycogen levels.  And since the body will only store so much, the rest has to go somewhere (fat stores).

Once again, it is not a timing issue.  It does not matter if you eat a lot of carbs in the evening or in the morning, if you are not doing the activities to balance your caloric intake you will gain weight.

I agree 100% that there are better ways to eat.  Nutrition is extermely misunderstood by the majority of people.  Stuff like food combining, proper serving sizes, fluid intake, etc. are all balanced parts of eating right.  But the idea that eating right before bed is a weight gaining problem is a myth, not science.  Eating too much crap any time of the day and not balancing energy burning activities is what causes the weight gain.  It doesn't matter if you are taking in "X" grams of carb in the morning or evening in a 24 hour period ........ if you are not burning enough calories in that 24 hour period to cover that intake you will retain stuff ..........



I agree...it's a balancing act. I'm not saying that somebody who properly times what they eat and portions out the macronutrient content will lose weight overnight--but it's a pretty good place to start.

Nutritional needs for a hardcore triathlete and a person of average to slightly above average activity level will differ immensely--especially where carbs are concerned. For a hardcore athlete, carbs--and especially simple carbs--are a necessity. For the person of average activity level and average ability...eh, not so much.

Having said that, I still believe that--along with eating a well-balance, clean diet and following dietary macronutrient guidelines and eating frequency guidelines--dietary timing issues may in fact be a huge factor in weight loss success.

Edited by dogfacedgremlin34 2008-03-25 3:33 PM
2008-03-25 3:27 PM
in reply to: #1292585

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Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?

"Seriously... is it true? Has America lost all sense of rationality?"

Yes, right along with the sense of personal responsibility.



2008-03-25 3:31 PM
in reply to: #1292758

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Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
dogfacedgremlin34 - 2008-03-25 2:48 PM
  • .....the only thing I'd like to comment on is the part in which you wrote that you are "genetically gifted with a faster metabolism". From my experience, metabolism is not a product of genetics; anybody can modify the relative "speed" of their metabolic rate by making some lifestyle changes--namely in the amount of exercise they do and the quality of food they eat.
  • ...............
  • That's why it always makes me laugh when an overweight person says "I just have a slow metabolism". It's a copout; metabolic rate is about as easy to change as one's hairstyle.


    I disagree. I personally have a fast metabolism, at least faster than 90% of the people I know, including during those periods of my life where I did not exercise regularly. On average, I agree that people can change their metabolism. That does not mean there are no exceptions. If I can be an exception for a naturally fast metabolism, there are those with a slow metabolism as well.

    I am related to people that have a healthy lifestyle, eat better and less than I, but cannot drop or maintain weight the way that I can. My sister had a thyroid problem, and gained a lot of weight. I don't blame her at all for that.

    I think a lot of people on this forum should be very grateful for the way they were raised, their health and their natural ability. It is not as easy as some people are making it out to be.
    2008-03-25 3:32 PM
    in reply to: #1292783

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    Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
    kanders - 2008-03-25 3:55 PM

    Rather than being angry about it, can we teach instead?

    As somebody who still has a little extra weight to get rid of from having been off for a few months, and who used to have more of it, I can't see this type of stuff without thinking that the anger is misplaced and could be hurtful to some of the true "Beginner triathletes" out there, and make them feel unwelcome.  Yeah, it's hard to hear people justify and make excuses, but take your extra energy and put it into motivating and plain talk, not cut downs. 

    I once read that obese people overreat because they are trying to disappear. When I see an obese person, I think "I wonder what hell that person is trying to escape." Self- medicating through food.

    Sure, we are all very capable of denial. I think a little of your compassion would do your coworker more good than your outrage. He might actually hear you better if he knew you weren't judging him. Instruct him in the ways of increasing his metabolism or point him to source material.

    2008-03-25 3:32 PM
    in reply to: #1292585

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    Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?

    funny thread, i was just talking with my wife about that...  apparently she hates eating at the schools teacher lounge b/c most of the women are over weight and complaining about it the whole time......  i always thought it was a simple formula??  burn more than you take in...... 

    of course if you want to look like Jean Claude van Damn its a little more complex, but to avoid obesity is pretty straight forward.  course if you want to be happy and fat that is fine by me as well, but i also hate hearing people complain about it and then finishing off a tub of Original Recipe KFC......   

    2008-03-25 3:36 PM
    in reply to: #1292585

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    Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
    Yes, they are.

    I watched a show about plastic surgery and this teenager wanted it so bad so she could be skinny.

    She said that she would try to lose weight but NOTHING worked. But she hated to exercise and eat right.

    Yea. Go figure. NOTHING worked.

    I'm sorry, but the show, The Biggest Loser, proves that diet and exercise and help a person lose weight. They just have to buckle down and do it. True, their numbers are higher than a normal person might have at home, but the concept is the same.

    Luckily the teenager was so unhealthy and too overweight and the Dr. wouldn't do the surgery. He even gave her a diet to follow and told her to take iron, and she didn't. But cried when she couldn't get lipo. *Sigh*



    ranger5oh - 2008-03-25 2:06 PM

    Ok... this is possibly the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a long time... I am sitting at my desk, and a guy... no less than 350lbs is talking to the guy next to me and says this all in a row:


    "no matter what I do.. I just seem to gain weight"

    "I know i eat to much, but I cant seem to lose weight"

    "I'd walk 3-4 miles per day, and Id lose 5lbs... but then Id stop and it would all just come right back"

    "My metabolism must just be slow"


    Seriously... is it true? Has America lost all sense of rationality?
    2008-03-25 3:37 PM
    in reply to: #1292585

    Extreme Veteran
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    Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
    I have only read the title to this post, but I can guarantee the answer is 'yes'.


    2008-03-25 3:41 PM
    in reply to: #1292848

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    Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
    lorabby - 2008-03-25 3:16 PM

    lfrick - 2008-03-25 3:57 PM

    lorabby - 2008-03-25 2:47 PM

    o cut 'em some slack. They aren't ignorant, they just have blind spots. Maybe they were making small talk. Fitness is overrated anyway. There've been lots of really accomplished fat folk, Orson Wells, Luciano Pavarotti, Aretha...




    I think Aretha ate Orson and Luciano


    o gawd. ya'll are a bunch of born again fitness freaks. In the grand scheme of things, brains and heart matter more than body fat ratio.
    just sayin


    No one is saying overweight folks are worthless. (at least i am not) While I am sure Orson and Luciano had full lives, I do no think I am going out too far on a limb to say they probably cut years off their life because of their weight and related health issues. Aretha could better control her diabetes if she lost some weight also.

    However, I never heard any of them complain about being large, so if they are OK with it, so am I.
    2008-03-25 3:44 PM
    in reply to: #1292783

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    Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
    kanders - 2008-03-25 2:55 PM

    Rather than being angry about it, can we teach instead?

    As somebody who still has a little extra weight to get rid of from having been off for a few months, and who used to have more of it, I can't see this type of stuff without thinking that the anger is misplaced and could be hurtful to some of the true "Beginner triathletes" out there, and make them feel unwelcome.  Yeah, it's hard to hear people justify and make excuses, but take your extra energy and put it into motivating and plain talk, not cut downs. 

    I like what whoever said above about responding to stuff like that with "call me and we can go to the gym."  We are facing an epidemic in this country, but it's going to take a lot of positive small steps to get us out of it. 



    We can only teach if asked.

    But I have found that when people know that I train for tri's and that I eat pretty healthy (people freak in my office when they see me with some fried- YOU are eating THAT?!)... they ask me for advice.

    At that point I am more than willing to give my input with regards to what they are asking.

    As for newbies who are on this board... please don't think that you can't lose weight or that a healthy diet (with reduce caloric intake) and exercise... WON'T work. IT WILL. IT WILL WORK.

    2008-03-25 3:51 PM
    in reply to: #1292926

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    Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
    lfrick - 2008-03-25 4:41 PM

    lorabby - 2008-03-25 3:16 PM

    lfrick - 2008-03-25 3:57 PM

    lorabby - 2008-03-25 2:47 PM

    o cut 'em some slack. They aren't ignorant, they just have blind spots. Maybe they were making small talk. Fitness is overrated anyway. There've been lots of really accomplished fat folk, Orson Wells, Luciano Pavarotti, Aretha...




    I think Aretha ate Orson and Luciano


    o gawd. ya'll are a bunch of born again fitness freaks. In the grand scheme of things, brains and heart matter more than body fat ratio.
    just sayin


    No one is saying overweight folks are worthless. (at least i am not) While I am sure Orson and Luciano had full lives, I do no think I am going out too far on a limb to say they probably cut years off their life because of their weight and related health issues. Aretha could better control her diabetes if she lost some weight also.

    However, I never heard any of them complain about being large, so if they are OK with it, so am I.


    I agree with you. My point was (although perhaps unskillfully set forth), that just because people are fat, or have a blind spot about their weight, doesn't mean they are ignorant. Now i don't know the people in the OP's original post, nor, I think does he, but fitness and long life may not be high on their list of priorities. That doesn't make me shudder, or make me sorry for them, or make me think they are automatically ignorant. It's the self-righteousness of our BT reactions that I am commenting on. I think Marmadaddy made a point that I wish I had made, about compassion. We all have blind spots. We all may be ignorant on certain points. I, apparently, am ignorant of southern spelling rules.

    EDIT: I added "of our BT reactions"

    Edited by lorabby 2008-03-25 3:52 PM
    2008-03-25 3:51 PM
    in reply to: #1292585

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    Subject: RE: Are people this ignorant?
    Some choice quotes from this thread so far...

    Additionally, it takes alot of time (my experience indicates at least several months) of consistent intense exersize (I am not talking 20 minutes on liesure ride or walk) to get the metabolism going at a higher rate. Even then if you want to lose weight, you still have to control the calories.


    From my experience, metabolism is not a product of genetics; anybody can modify the relative "speed" of their metabolic rate by making some lifestyle changes--namely in the amount of exercise they do and the quality of food they eat.


    From what I've read, the main problem with eating right before bed isn't necessarily the eating part, but what you eat. In fact, it's recommended to have some type of slow burning protein (casein for example, such as what's found in cottage cheese and other dairy products) combined with a fat within two hours or so before turning in.


    In fact, most dietary guidelines now suggest that--assuming you eat five or six smaller meals a day--as opposed to the traditional three big ones--you consume the bulk of your carbs in the morning; throughout the course of the day, one should consume fewer and fewer carbs as a percentage of the meal.


    It does not matter if you eat a lot of carbs in the evening or in the morning, if you are not doing the activities to balance your caloric intake you will gain weight.


    Nutrition is extermely misunderstood by the majority of people. Stuff like food combining, proper serving sizes, fluid intake, etc. are all balanced parts of eating right.


    I still believe that, along with eating a smart, well-balance and clean diet, following dietary guidelines and paying attention to what is eaten before bed may in fact be a huge factor in weight loss success.



    Honestly, I think that the biggest problem is that nutrition (especially focusing on weight loss) is a lot closer to voodoo than it is to science. Oh sure, there is a lot of science going on here, but most of the "facts" are made up. Just take a look at what a healthy diet was considered to be 5, 10, 15, 20, and 25 years ago. Take a look at what athletic nutrition was at those same intervals. There is more change than there is constant.

    Considering that I can go to 3 different nutritionists and get 3 completely different sets of advice, how does anyone expect the average Joe to understand it? Yes, this is still ignorance, I'm not disputing that. But when anyone tries to tell me that they understand exactly what it takes to gain/lose weight, I know they are full of crap.

    I'm a geek. A numbers junkie. I like to track everything I do. I've kept a food and activity diary for many years, and I know what it takes FOR ME to gain or lose weight. I've come by that information through trial and error over many years. But guess what? The same rules don't apply for everyone else.

    That doesn't mean people don't like to play the blame game. "Oh, I'm fat because of my genetics. I can't afford healthy food. I'm too busy to exercise." Losing weight is hard. Convincing people that losing weight is easy is big business. I'm not surprised that the ignorance is wide spread.
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