Tour Previews and Discussion (Page 2)

kspengler - 2009-07-01 1:05 PM Tour newbie here.  I've seen some of the races but haven't really understood all of it.  I'll also post the questions here since I trust you guys (well, except for Neal ) more than the rest of the internet.  Brett will probably answer all of my basic questions in his post anyway.

How are the different jerseys handed out?
Are some of the riders out there to just vie for a particular jersey and not the overall?  Is there money in this?
Are the routes the same every year?
Does each team have their own set of leader jerseys?  I seem to remember that they had the sponsers all over them.
I remember hearing last year that the real end of the race is the TT into Paris and that no one really pushes the last stage.  Is this true, and why if so?

I think that's enough for now.  I'm sure there will be more.

Since you don't trust me, I will answer your questions anyway.  Anyone else is welcome to correct me though.

How are the different jerseys handed out?** The different jerseys are handed out based on points.  You get points by being first at different marked points on the stage.  The jerseys are Leader's Jersey ( Malliot Jaune)- yellow, King of the Mountains- red polka dots, Sprinter's Jersey - green, and Best young riders jersey- white.  They usually award points to the first three people, sometimes more over designated points on the course.  They also get bonus seconds subtracted from their overall time.

Are some of the riders out there to just vie for a particular jersey and not the overall?**Yes, very few riders have a chance at the overall, ie the Malliot Jaune, ie Yellow Jersey, but a lot of people are good at one aspect of cycling such as Time Trials, Sprinting or Climbing.  Just ask Felix or Justin about climbing.  Big guys just don't make great climbers, but they can be great sprinters.  The climbers are usually tiny guys.  If you have ever seen Levi Leipheimer, he is very small. Not only are some people only out to try and get a lesser jersey, some just want points to get recognition for the team and the sponsor.  Look at my response to Doug.  Teams will have members break away from the pack and just lead a portion of the race in order to get "TV time" for the sponsors.  They know full well when they break away that they will be caught and not get any points for anything.  They just want the free advertisement.

Is there money in this?**Yes, there is usually bonus money for getting those points.  This makes the riders really want to win those extra points making the race more exciting for the spectators.  There is also the prestige for the team and the publicity for the sponsors which can lead to better contracts for riders consistantly winning these jerseys and even being in the mix.

Are the routes the same every year?** No, it changes every year although they will use the same routes in different years again.  There are only so many mountains to climb.

Does each team have their own set of leader jerseys?** No, everyone on the team usually has the same kit which is decorated to show off the sponsor of the team with the exception of certain riders that may be a champion at something in their home country are allow to wear that jersey such as the World Time Trial Champion.

I remember hearing last year that the real end of the race is the TT into Paris and that no one really pushes the last stage.  Is this true, and why if so? They never have a TT on the last day.  It is always just a regular flat easy stage.  Almost always, the winner has been determined before the last day making the last day largely ceremonial.  Usually the winner has accumulated enough time so that he can not be overtaken.  It is extremely hard to make up time on a flat stage because everyone that finishes in the same group gets the same time.  There can be stages where everyone in the race gets the same time for that stage.

I hope this helps.  More trustworthy people are welcome to chime in and correct me. 

I will throw this out there as a general knowlege bit which relates to Kevin's post.  As I said everyone in a group gets the same time.  You have to be separated from the guy in front of you by a second to get a lesser time than he gets.  If he is close to the guy in front of him, you both get the same time as the first guy, etc, etc. so it is possible to be in last place and get the same time as the guy who wins as long as there are not gaps in the peleton(main group). 

As a part of giving the same time, if there is a crash within 3 km (I think) of the finish line.  The people in that group that have to stop for the crash get the same time as the people in the front part of the group that were able to continue and finish the race.

If anyone is interested, while trying to find the VeloNews guide for 2009, I found "The Tour de France for Dummies" online for $2.10 plus $4.00 shipping.  List price is $16.00.

Neal, when your books "I'm a Sandbagger and Chicks Dig Me" and "Everything You Know About the Tour de France Because I Wrote It Here" come out, let me know...*then* I might shell out some $$...

I will keep you posted. 

One of the more interesting things I've found is the team and individual number assignments.

Typically the defending winner of the tour will be assigned number 1 and his team will be the 0's. (1-7)

Then based on the strength of the teams the numbers will go up accordingly, the next highest team in the teens, twenty's etc.

For instance Astana very well may have the 15 (or even 19's)'s assigned to them, as they were banned last year.  You'll be able to get a good idea who the team is picking for their GC contender, as the race director may assign 151 to Contador, 152 to Armstrong, 153 to Leiphammer, etc.

Obviously these aren't set in stone, but I find it a good guide to see the quality of a team and the individual on any given break away.

Personally, it's awesome to see an mtn top finish where you have 1 vs 11,12 vs 31 vs 51.  I can hear Phil Liggett now, "And the heads of state have come to the fore..."

My only question would be, how can the peloton 9 times out of 10 catch the breakaway within the last 2km?  I know the support cars/radios work with their teams and usually it's a sprinter's team setting the pace as they are looking for the stage win...but fascinating they calculate it so close every time.

Sorry guys I completely dropped the ball on this today. I will get the post out tomorrow for sure.

Neal you have done an outstanding job of answering questions!

For those tracking rosters closely, Garmin's has had a change:

"Young Irish rider Daniel Martin has been forced to withdraw from the Garmin Chipotle team for this year's Tour de France, two days before the race starts in Monaco.  The 22-year-old was set to make his debut in the event but has had a lingering knee injury. His uncle Stephen Roche, Tour winner in 1987, confirmed to Cyclingnews that the climber has been forced to play it safe and will instead focus on the Vuelta a España.

Dutch rider Martijn Maaskant will take Martin's place in the race...."  see link for rest of the story...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/garmins-martin-out-of-tour-with-knee-problems

Is anyone doing the fantasy cycling challenge this year?  I did last year and even though I didn't that great, it was a lot of fun.  It made everyday a little more exciting to see where my riders would end up.

http://fantasy.versus.com/cycling/index.asp

We could even create a custom league if there's enough interest...

Haven't put my team together yet, but have done this one for the past several years and planning to do same this year:

http://www.velogames.com/

Obviously, Brent is interested although I question his Tom Boonen pick. 

I would be interested if enough people are.  I have never don a fanatasy league of any kind so I have not idea how it works, but several guys that we ride with have expressed an interest in learning more about the TdF and this would be a good way to get to know the riders.

It is pretty hard to know who the riders if all you ever read about is the TdF and not follow the other Grand Tours or cycling in general.  That is why I thought it would be good to throw in other interesting tidbits about the tour sort of like "color commentary" to help increase interest.  I think incresed interest in the tours leads to increased cycling in general which leads to better cycling roads and venues.

I went ahead and created a private league on thru the versus page. 

http://fantasy.versus.com/cycling/index.asp
League:  Georgia BT
Password:  tour

Feel free to invite as many folks as anyone likes, the more the merrier.  I just listed it as private to keep out complete unknowns coming in and sandbagging.

I think the setup is pretty user friendly, the first 4 stages are test runs to get your feet wet in how the scoring works, and make any last minute changes.

Here's a quick copy/paste of the gist of the rules:

"You have a $500 dollar budget. Once you've selected 15 players, your roster is full and valid. Remember, Stage 1-4 is the Practice Phase. Once Stage 5 starts, your score will be reset to zero and your roster locked as the Official Race Phase Begins. You will still be able to modify your starters and bench for each stage. "

The $500 dollar budget keeps you from buying up every GC/Sprinter/KOM rider so you do have to do your homework/get lucky in your team make up.  Also, you'll have a chance daily to change out your team based on the next stage being a sprint/TT/mtn top finish.  Out of the 15 riders on your team, I think you select 9 everyday?

Jim

cadence.king - 2009-07-02 9:51 AM

nealphelps - 2009-07-02 9:35 AM

Obviously, Brent is interested although I question his Tom Boonen pick. 

My logic is:

... and he is in my roster for that reason.  If I put in Boonen, Farrar, and Cavendish, one of them is bound to win every single sprint on course. 

How bout them apples

I like your logic.  The only flaw in it that I can see is that unless something has happened that I do not know about yet.  They are not going to let Boonen ride this year because of the cocaine issue. 

nealphelps - 2009-07-02 10:05 AM

cadence.king - 2009-07-02 9:51 AM

nealphelps - 2009-07-02 9:35 AM

Obviously, Brent is interested although I question his Tom Boonen pick. 

My logic is:

... and he is in my roster for that reason.  If I put in Boonen, Farrar, and Cavendish, one of them is bound to win every single sprint on course. 

How bout them apples

I like your logic.  The only flaw in it that I can see is that unless something has happened that I do not know about yet.  They are not going to let Boonen ride this year because of the cocaine issue. 

You're correct, Neal...as of now, Boonen is on the outside looking in...from what I've read, his appeal is still pending and I believe a decision will be made today.

I think we should start a new thread for this "Fantasy League".  What do you guys think? 

Although I have never done anything like a fantasy league from reading Jim's post, I assume that you can change your riders so on flat days, you want more sprinters on your team and climbers in the mtns and TT specialist on the TT days.  I am trying to make up a list of some riders in their specialties for the guys who are interested in learning about the Tour.  This is a good way to get to know the riders which I think is different than learning about the general aspects of the Grand Tours which is why I suggest a different thread. 

FYI...found this rider list - it's a PDF, but all of the teams/riders are "hot-linked" in the document...might come in handy when watching the action:

http://www.thetourbaby.com/2009startlist.pdf

Thanks Lou, did you see that Jim started a thread for the fantasy league.  I have already made a set of picks.  I am going to revise it though.

Does each team have their own set of leader jerseys?** No, everyone on the team usually has the same kit which is decorated to show off the sponsor of the team with the exception of certain riders that may be a champion at something in their home country are allow to wear that jersey such as the World Time Trial Champion.

Kevin,
To add to your leader jersey question, they make them after every stage.  The "tour" has multiple sets in all sizes.  They essentially "iron on" the current leader's (or whichever special jersey like KOM) sponsors and kit colors onto it.  

They did a special last year on how they do the jerseys.  They have a special truck with all the jersey's in it.  And one guys works the jerseys after the end but before the podium pictures are done.  Another thing is that they make a podium version that is full zip in the back and they also make a ride version for the next day that is a normal jersey.  They also can do long sleeve or short sleeve depending on the rider's preference.  
 

Indeed - thanks, Neal...as soon as I get my Velogames entry ready, I'll likely add an entry to the others mentioned in the thread that Jim started...

Found a pretty cool website during lunch today and previewed all of the upcoming stages...some interesting/cool stuff here...

http://bicycling.trimbleoutdoors.com/ViewTrip.aspx?tripId=429312 (Stage 1, links to the other stages are available here too)

The FAQ post is up on my blog. Let me know if there is anything I missed questions wise.

If you are looking for a cool video game, Pro Cycling Manager 2009 is awesome!