Training with power question, basic but nagging. (Page 2)

That's what I was getting at....what if the hill is so steep, you can't get a spin going. I'm talking lowest gear possible and grinding just to get up it. I assume in that instance, it wouldn't be very useful. Same with extreme downhills....

I only ask because I do a ton of rides around here that are like that. I can't even begin to fathom being able to hold or try and hold a constant power output. Maybe I'm missing something....it's been known to happen....lol

Holding the power/eliminating the spikes is what you want for an IM bike leg so you can run effectively and to your potential. Yes there are times where you need to go way up in watts to stay upright. Likewise when you are bombing down a hill it makes sense to not pedal. At the end of the ride the PT, used correctly, will allow you to 'smooth' your effort over the distance and not kill yourself racing to the top of a hill. You can always tell the people with PT's at IM's b/c they are the ones sitting on the granny gear up the hill and then passing by all the people who raced to the top and stop pedaling to get a drink. There is a certain amount of technique to it. It is highly effective.

^^^

For distance races, pedal enough downhill to get up to speed, then take a breather.   Pushing hard on downhills gets most of your effort gobbled up by the increased wind resistance.

12% sounds steep but at that point you might want to consider a different cassette. 

the idea is to maintain a wattage goal for a workout be it hill or not.  obviously on a flat surface its much much easier.  but the idea would be same, keep smooth and maintain a wattage goal, if its a long heal you increase your wattage a bit but not tremendously....

If the hills are that steep you may need to exceed your power range to get up the hill.  Or you need to get yet lower gears put onto the bike.

BTW, it is very hard to develop power on a decent downhill.  A lot of times you can't actually get to your power range.  Once you get over ~35mph it may make more sense to just coast and recover, anyway.

Here is a real world example that I thought of during a long run last night that I THINK a power meter might help...  Check if I'm right/wrong...

The other week, I did my typical ride that I use as a "benchmark".  I decided to make a small adjustment to my position and low and behold, I had the THIRD FASTEST TIME EVER on the course...  My HR was pretty consistant with other attempts but my RPE seemed a little "easier" than other times...

But here was my problem...  The temps were 15 degrees cooler, I had the wind at my back (when it's typically a headwind), and a modified position...   I guess I can't tell if my good result was due to those outside forces OR am I getting more fit?  If I had power meter data, I could SEE if I was working easier that day.

If I was putting out less watts, but got there faster...  Outside help/forces.  If I was putting out the SAME watts but it felt easier/lower HR, better fitness (even better yet, MORE watts, faster, same HR/REP).

I guess it would allow me to define the ride a bit better.  No?

I think people are missing the point of your question.  On really steep hills you will be limited in how much you can actually control your power.  I have a hill near me (not sure the grade), that's about 1km in length.  I'm in my smallest gear from the beginning, and avg around 300 watts for the first section, then the grade drops a bit and I average in he mid 200's, before it picks up again, and I'm back in the 300's.  I see no point in purchasing a cassette so I can "manage" my watts going up that hill.  My FTP is about 217 - so I am seriously maxed out on this hill.

That hill is, not surprisingly, on quite a rolling road.  So my power is going up and down like a yo yo, and there's no point in trying to keep a "contstant" power.  My power graph at the end of the ride looks like a kids etch a sketch.  BUT, I am able to see my average power for the ride.  Now, I know that the up and downhills are playing havoc with the numbers, but in general (simply an observation), I find my power still hits my expected numbers over the course of the ride.  When I'm on the flats, I tend to keep it within my expected range.  At the end of the ride my Normalized Power may be a bit higher, but not much moreso than other rides.  Others might say that the rides been too intense, but if I'm riding a rolling/hilly route, I accept that it's going to be more like an interval workout with highs and lows.

Where the power really helps, is comparing your rides over time - even when you think you are maxed out.  Cause 6 months from now I want my FTP to be higher.  If I rode that hill at an average of 295 right now, then I was at 136% of FTP.  If I ride that same hill in 6 months at 295, but my FTP is 240, then I was only at 123%.  I know I'm not working as hard as before, because I'm stronger.  OR - you can hammer the hill (because now you feel you have something extra), and ride it at 310.  Either way - the PM just told you that you rode it better (either at less effort or higher wattage).

Yep.  My last ride I did 25kmph on the way out at 192 watts - I did 32kmph at 184 watts on the way home.  HR on the way out 160, on the way home 162 (wouldn't have told me anything).  Watts really tells you how hard you're working / not working.