Tri Mark's Madness Group-Closed (Page 2)
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Telnor, You are about 6 weeks or so out from your first tri, so time is of the essence. I would consider this an aggressive phase, as you really have to view the final week before the race as a taper week, even for a sprint distance, you have to give your body some rest. Racing when not rested, even if it's not your "A" race, is a challenge, trust me, I have made that mistake. If you are looking for results and racing for the best possible time you can achieve, you need to start working on speed now too. There are two reasons. First, speed for the sake of speed, you just want to be as fast as you can. Second, by doing higher intensity interval training, running and biking, you will recruit as much of your slow twitch muscle as possible. If you are really good and do this over a longer period, you will even convert fast twitch to act like slow twitch muscle. What's the difference you ask? Slow twitch burns body fat, which even the leanest racers have a virtually unlimited supply of. Fast twitch burns stored glycogen, which is very limited. You want to build a fat burning machine that works as efficiently as possible. You can then go a lot harder for a lot longer. If you want to email me your training plan, we can look at it more closely and figure out when/where/how you should work in the higher intensity. You have to be very careful when you do it, and how you do it. This is where injury is most likely to occur, but it also produces ridiculous results. I dropped my 5k PR by4 minutes last year to 22:29 outdoors, and look to go 21 and change in a couple weeks at my first of the year. I dropped my half marathon PR by 13 minutes last year doing the same stuff and hope to drop it another 5 minutes this year. Get fast, then get far. |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Brian, Looks like an awesome fun weekend. I'd go moderate on the bike as far as time, and watch your HR closely. Know your zones well, and know that they are lower on the bike than on the run. I assume you may already know that, but just in case as this is a beginner forum, we should cover that. HR zones on the bike should be much lower than on the run, and they are worth learning. When doing that slow bike, think about your pedal stroke. Think 3 to 9, not 12 to 6. If you can, you should work in some isolated leg training on a ride like that where it is flat to really recruit your hip flexors. Think efficiency in every rotation, remember to pull up, not just push down. With regards to your strength, that's a tough deal. As a guy who take great pride in having arms like tree trunks, I can tell you it's hard to let it go. I can also tell you that if you don't, it will be nothing but an albatross on race days. Muscle is dense and heavy, you know that. But did you also know that it takes a tremendous amount of energy to cool? It builds heat and saps your body of vital energy that should be going to move you forward, not keep you from boiling from the inside out. I still have huge arms, but I only work to maintain definition in them. I look like a goof at my size just lifting with 15 and 20 pound dumbells when I used to curl 60's, but my arms look good and don't hold me back. They won't even help you in the pool, muscle sinks like a stone brother. Do functional strength training to calm your mind, and you'll be just fine. |
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Member ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hi Mark,
2. Do you have an idea of what kind of mileage you are running weekly? In March I had about 4.25 mi per week. 4. Do you have any idea of how far you can swim, and what your T Pace would be (T Pace is your pace per 100m for a 1000m swim). I haven’t formally tested myself yet. I’m ok with roughly 500 m with some rest but I need to work on swimming endurance and form.
~Xandra Edited by njsole 2011-04-08 9:50 AM |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Willrunforchocolate, Welcome. Let's get right to it. You need to swim, then swim some more, then do it again! You also need to visit Mr. Smooth's swimming tutorial. http://www.swimsmooth.com/ I think everyone can benefit from this. For what it's worth, I sucked at swimming a year ago, now I'm far better than the average athlete I swim with, and I swim with some real animals. I put in a minimum of 7000m/week and 10000m every other week. The other thing about swimming is that it helps your overall fitness a lot more, as it's anaerobic work. The tough news is, you have to do it 3x/week to be good and get better. All that said, swimming is hard to teach, but I'm now thinking that maybe I should put together a conference call for you all where we can all watch Mr. Smooth and go through the basics and I can put some color to it. If there's some demand for that, I can put that together. Running. Keep your running mileage high to train for the longer events. If you are doing sprints, the endurance won't hurt your tri's. If you cut back, however, you'd kill your marathon chances. If you look at my schedule, which has changed some since I posted in Jan., you'll see 1/2 marathons and a marathon in there. I'll have to keep a keen eye as I approach my "A" race in mid August that I have a marathon in mid October and want to be at or under 3:50 for that. So I have to train accordingly on the run. By the way, if you do anything longer than a sprint, it's all about the run anyways. IF you do Ironman, the entire day is a warmup for the run. Trust me on that. I think for you we need to get you some swim workouts and structure, and get you on the bike. Your running is probably going to be easy, your times are good. A little track and you'll kick some . |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Xandra, You're in! Welcome. Now let's figure out what you can do and still heal. What type of injury are you dealing with and what are your restrictions? The great thing about triathlon is that there are lots of ways to train through injury to keep your fitness up without screwing yourself up. You have TONS of time until your July race, so we'll not fret. Give me some details and let's figure out your options. If you don't want to share publicly, you can PM me or email me at [email protected]
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Regular![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Weekend Workouts: Weekends are the best chance I get for longer workouts, so this weekend my goals are:
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Laurie, Do you do any drills when you're doing your ride? I would suggest that you spend a few minutes working on Isolated Leg Training (one leg drills) and vary up your routine with some high cadence work and some lower cadence strength work. I can help you with a workout like that if you wish. I'd switch it up more based on time than mileage when using a trainer too. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'd love to join your mentor group.
After years of cycling, I started out in triathlons last year. I did two Olys, a sprint and an HIM last year along with two half marathons and a few shorter running events. This year I completed my first marathon and my second HIM and I am doing my first iron distance event at Beach2Battleship this October.
1. Are you using any sort of training plan or just working as you go? Coached 2. Do you have an idea of what kind of mileage you are running weekly? Right now, mostly cycling. 5-10 miles/week running since HIM last month. 3. What kind of 5k pace do you currently run? ~8:20 4. Do you have any idea of how far you can swim, and what your T Pace would be (T Pace is your pace per 100m for a 1000m swim). Nope. 5. What sort of web sites do you frequent for "how to" videos? youtube Edited by jmkizer 2011-04-08 10:16 AM |
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Member ![]() ![]() | ![]() I can share. Other's may benefit. I had "Patella Femoral Syndrome" in my left knee last year. Went through PT, got it under control enough to run. Then, I pulled something in my back, possibly my psoas, last July. I went to a chiro and did some massage just to be able to stand up straight. I never went to PT. This has persisted since. I have not gone to PT because it hasn't really stopped me since the initial incident. Two weeks ago I began to up my effort a bit and I did a few hard (for me) sessions and the next thing I know, my knee is hurting again, classic PFS, can't walk up or down stairs. My IT and calves were killing me when I used a foam roller. I was so tight, something had to give. My main problem is my back and I believe it's throwing everything off, casusing an imbalance. I stretch, roll out, do dynamic stretches before most runs & wt. training. I warm up and cool down. It seem the more I do the "right things" the tighter I get. I'm going to a PT next week and will know more then. I'll be testing the waters with a walk/run, swim and bike over the next 3 days. I sit at a desk all day long and have years of poor posture to fight against. |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Welcome Janyne. You've got a ton of great experience and I'm sure you'll be able to add to the group too. You're going to love the 140.6, it's a spirtual experience, and I can't describe it any other way. To overcome all that stands in your way and bust through barriers like never before is like being on another plane altogether. Just remember, it's not 2x a half IM though...it's harder. With hard work and prep though, I truly believe that anyone who is committed to it can do it. Please see the questions that I've posted and take a whack at answering them, and we can go from there. |
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Regular![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I do some speed drills during my shorter rides during the week and one where I use harder gears to simulate hills. I haven't done isolated leg training (actually only started using clipless pedals about two weeks ago!) but would definitely appreciate a more defined workout - thanks! I will probably use the trainer most of April still, so appreciate your suggestion re: time over km. Thanks!
mwp1054 - 2011-04-08 9:05 AM Laurie, Do you do any drills when you're doing your ride? I would suggest that you spend a few minutes working on Isolated Leg Training (one leg drills) and vary up your routine with some high cadence work and some lower cadence strength work. I can help you with a workout like that if you wish. I'd switch it up more based on time than mileage when using a trainer too. |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Try this one: 60 minutes 10' W/U easy spinning, nothing fancy 3 x 30 seconds Isolated Leg Training. This will be hard if it's your first time. Do one leg for 30 seconds, immediately switch to the other for 30 seconds, that's one rep. Spin for 1 minute with both legs, then move on to the second set, then the third. DO THIS IN A GEAR WITH LITTLE RESISTANCE and focus on SMOOTH CIRCLES, DON'T LET IT "CLANK", WORK TO ELIMINATE ANY DEAD SPOTS, USUALLY TOWARDS THE TOP OF THE STROKE. As you get better with this, you'll start to go faster. The low gear makes the drill harder. 2 x 5' strength/climb. Put it in hardest gear and work for 5 minutes. Try to remain seated, stand only if neccessary and only for up to 30 seconds at a time. Rest 3 minutes between sets. Easy spin for the remaining time. Focus on keeping your cadence high (above 85, above 90 if you can). |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Are you able to swim effectively without pain? Many of my local tri buddies with similar issues do pool running when they are unable to get outside. It's not fun and it's a total pain, but it does keep them fit without stressing the knees and back. If you're not familiar with it, there are two main ways to do it. In the deep end with a life vest or floation device (I'd let you have my water wings, but I need them for my tri races ![]() |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() LadyNorth - 2011-04-07 2:49 PM Mark, I would like to join your group. I've done 8 sprints in the last two summers so I'm not a novice. My old mentor group has died and I really like the support of a group and love to follow others' progress. I will post history later. Denise ps Queerdrummer - I did Chain of Lakes last year and will be there this year so if you have any questions about how things work there, feel free to ask. By the way, I think it's an excellent choice for a 1st tri. Hey Denise! I would love to pick your brain. I'm pretty excited to see some Minnesotan's on here! Immediate questions re: Chain of Lakes: |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() 1. Are you using any sort of training plan or just working as you go? 2. Do you have an idea of what kind of mileage you are running weekly? 3. What kind of 5k pace do you currently run? 4. Do you have any idea of how far you can swim, and what your T Pace would be (T Pace is your pace per 100m for a 1000m swim). 5. What sort of web sites do you frequent for "how to" videos? Edited by QueerDrummer 2011-04-08 12:05 PM Attachments ---------------- 12 Week Triathlon Training Schedule.docx (17KB - 15 downloads) |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() mwp1054 - 2011-04-07 5:33 PM Welcome Ellen! We were all exactly where you are right now. Some are right there with you. We'll do everything we can to help make this first tri a success, and hopefully the first of many more. I'm not personally familiar with that Joel Friel plan, but I am coached by Training Bible Coaching, in which Joel is a partner, and have had the pleasure of meeting him this January when he was in town for a meeting with my coach. He's incredibly knowledgeable, and I would say if he wrote it, the plan is solid. If you'd like to review parts of it with us and seek input, I'd be more than happy to help you customize it or modify it to your needs. That's the thing about all programs, only you will know what you need for sure. You have to listen to your body, good and bad, and be honest with yourself. If you put in the work, race day will be a blast!
I really enjoy that book by Friel, especially his mentality that the only goal for your first triathlon should be to cross the finish line with a smile on your face! Okay, personally I believe in the multiple-goal program, but that is the only one that really matters for me in this first race. I've set optimistic time-goals for myself for each discipline and for the total race, but those are secondary to finishing & having fun. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() mwp1054 - 2011-04-07 6:34 PM Queer Drummer, Awesome job on your weight loss. Triathlon is a great way to keep it off, I've found, and to really re-shape your body. The swimming, while not my favorite of the three, really pays dividends in the overall strength and fitness of your body. Would I be correct in drawing from your post that you've not done an open water swim before? If so, is it the crowd/thrashing that is of concern, or the concept of swimming in a lake where you can't see the bottom and all of the anxiety that comes with that? I can relate to the latter anxiety, but it can be overcome. In any case, let's work hard together to get you to your goal. Thanks! No, I have not done an open water swim before. Well, I've swum in lakes & the ocean but never racing, and never with a bunch of people. Luckily my first tri is a pool-swim (part of the reason I picked it). At the time of registration I had to estimate my swim for the purpose of being split up into heats, and the website indicates there will be 2-4 people per lane. Joining the Masters class has really eased my anxiety about sharing a crowded lane. I *hope* there aren't 4 people in my lane, but I can manage if there are. As for open-water. I eventually want to do it, but the anxiety is definitely being in a lake & not being able to see. I have way too active an imagination and find myself picturing giant fish, dead bodies...sounds stupid but the last several years I've tried to swim with my face in the water in lakes I start to panic. :/ |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Your fears of swimming in a lake are pretty normal. I actually found that swimming with a wetsuit helped ease a lot of my anxiety. I never really told anyone, but open water freaked me out. I got through it, but not without some serious hyperventilation the first few times. I discovered that with the safety net of the wetsuit and my ability to basically float forever it in, I was much more at ease. It also occured to me that with the nature of fish stuff, they wouldn't want to be anywhere near the chaos of the swim start. I went out of my way last year to get right in the mix at my early races and get the crap pounded out of me, just so I'd be ready for IM Wisconsin's mass start with 2900 other maniacs. For the record, I never got beat like I got beat in Wisconsin. But I'm still here and ready to do it again in 2012, that's what it's all about. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Sorry for all the multiple-posts-in-a-row! I'm never online at night, so this is when I catch up. Mark, I suppose today was a bit of a key workout since it was a brick: 60 min cycle followed by 20 min run. I didn't focus on anything special. This weekend I'm schedule to run 25 minutes @ low intensity on Saturday & cycle 70 min @ moderate intensity on Sunday. I also hope to get in a short swim on Sunday. What do you think I should focus on?
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I like that you're swimming more than the program. Masters swim is just so beneficial. I hope your coach is strong at Masters and is giving you stroke technique tips. Swimming is all form, so much more than the others. By swimming those kinds of distances, you'll get a lot of extra fitness and total body strength work too. With the short run of a sprint, if you can work on upping the pace a bit without hurting yourself and having a strong bike and swim leg, you can put together a very nice race. There is no joy in injuring yourself along the way, so obviously that has to be first and foremost in your mind. I would also focus very intently on practicing your transition, which I will go into detail later, maybe early next month. You can cut 2 or more minutes off your time by having good transitions. That's better than having to run a 6 minute final mile instead of an 8 any day! |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Here are the questions: 1. Are you using any sort of training plan or just working as you go? EVERYONE says to GET A PLAN but I'm dragging my feet because I just can't find one that works for me. I guess I must be "speshul". 2. Do you have an idea of what kind of mileage you are running weekly? I spent 2 years chasing chronic calf tears trying to do Hal Higedon's program so now I've drunk BarryP's Koolaid and I only do minutes. I am going to plateau at 200 minutes this month (each week) and work in increasing again in May just before I taper. 3. What kind of 5k pace do you currently run? Not exactly sure, but my only triathlon (Sprint 13-march) was about a 6m/km (10 m/mile) and I was running and limping. 4. Do you have any idea of how far you can swim, and what your T Pace would be (T Pace is your pace per 100m for a 1000m swim). Only triathlon was a 2:00 min/100 m average (but we were going upcurrent 1/2 the swim and into breakers the other 1/2 - out to sea, back to shore, up (against strong current) upriver. 5. What sort of web sites do you frequent for "how to" videos? Um, none. About me - I 'm 50 and have 4 kids and we live in Mexico. My swim workouts are in the Caribbean (warm, but dodging cuddas, rays and whatever else feels like visiting - 2 recent shark attacks 80km away), bike is along the carretera (only place to ride as we're limited with pavement) and run is a 3km loop jungle trail. March training was:
and right now I'm around 10-12 hours/week (about 3 more if I can get swimming in). I have a HIM I'm a little freaqued out about on 5-Jun and an IM on end November. My athletic background is I was a fish as a kid (8-20ish) and on a whim with no training did a HIM in the early 80s. That was about the end of athletics for me but I kind of got into centuries and cycling in the early 90s. by the mid 90s I was pregnant and popping the kids out and ballooned up and about 2 years ago decided to finally get rid of the 'baby' weight and lost 15 kg. I still have probably another 10kg to go. I started walking 2 years ago - that led to running which led to chronic calf tears which led to cross training and in November of last year I started cycling for the first time in about 20 years. I found a local sprint triathlon on 13-march of this year and was very happy with my performance - training since November and I was 4th woman out of the water and still ended up beating 1/2 the female field after pulling something in my leg and limping the entire run. I was 2nd in my AG (my goal was to take my AG and I would have had it not been for injury) and 60th out of 150 so I figure I'm doing at least SOMETHING right in my training but now I'm really scared I won't be ready for the HIM. The HIM is really only a tester as I am really gunning for the IM. Just to finish - but to finish without wanting to die. So races planned are HIM 5-Jun (we will start from the island Cortes reportedly landed on and swim to shore) and then the Cozumel IM 27ish November. Oops just found the other question. Q: WHAT IS YOUR KEY WORKOUT(S) THIS WEEKEND AND HOW WILL YOU APPROACH THESE? MY ANSWER: Um, dunno? Wow. I feel like the teacher just gave me a pop quiz and I forgot to read the chapter. Um, well, Saturday is 60km bike and 20 min run and Sunday is 40 min run and 2100 yd swim but my long ride is Monday (90km) and long run was today (60 min) so I'm not sure if you're talking about long workouts or just giving us an exercise. At any rate, um, can you call on Ellen? - I'm SURE she read the chapter. Edited by kathy caribe 2011-04-08 1:01 PM |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Kathy, You're a real go getter! It sounds like your training volume is not an issue, and type seems about right. The running is a real challenge if you wish to be competitive at the 70.3 and 140.6, because those races are all about the run...and the 140.6 the 4th discipline of nutrition becomes HUGE too. So I have some questions unique to you: 1. Do you have experience with a nutrition plan? Do you know about how many calories per hour you need to, or should consume, and what products are safe for you to use for extended periods of time without gastro issues? 2. How is your running today with your injuries? Are you able to increase duration or speed? 3. Have you spent any time running off the bike? It's very early in your training for that, so I wouldn't be concerned, just more related to how it feels related to your leg injuries. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Mark, If you still have room, I would like to join your group - if so, background and answers to your questions to follow shortly. |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Bring it on PrivateIdaho. Look forward to your background. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() mwp1054 - 2011-04-08 1:02 PM Kathy, You're a real go getter! It sounds like your training volume is not an issue, and type seems about right. The running is a real challenge if you wish to be competitive at the 70.3 and 140.6, because those races are all about the run...and the 140.6 the 4th discipline of nutrition becomes HUGE too. So I have some questions unique to you: You are SO diplomatic. It is okay to say it. yes, I am certifiable. I know that Everyone says not to do long distance as your first tri - that's why I did the sprint. 1. Do you have experience with a nutrition plan? Do you know about how many calories per hour you need to, or should consume, and what products are safe for you to use for extended periods of time without gastro issues? Wow, that was SCREAMING fast! 2. How is your running today with your injuries? Are you able to increase duration or speed? I'm not going to work on speed at all. I have been very slowly (5-10%) been increasing since Jan and am now comfortably at 200 min (3 hours 20 min) a week. I will most likely stay here for at least another week (I keep promising myself all of April but is hard to listen to the good angel) and then start increasing again 220, 240, 260 min weeks. It has taken me over a year to look Very Long Term and to go very slowly with increasing. 3. Have you spent any time running off the bike? It's very early in your training for that, so I wouldn't be concerned, just more related to how it feels related to your leg injuries. I follow all my rides with a 20 min run. I'm thinking this week of throwing in a 40 min run off a 40 km bike or a 60 km bike. I just might do that tomorrow but that will be coming off today's long (60 min) run so I'm not sure but I just might see what the legs are up for. Tomorrow I have 60km bike and 20 min run planned but if my knee is better I just might go for 60km bike and 40 min run. What do you think?Edited by kathy caribe 2011-04-08 1:39 PM |
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