Tri Mark's Madness Group-Closed (Page 2)

Telnor,

You are about 6 weeks or so out from your first tri, so time is of the essence.  I would consider this an aggressive phase, as you really have to view the final week before the race as a taper week, even for a sprint distance, you have to give your body some rest.  Racing when not rested, even if it's not your "A" race, is a challenge, trust me, I have made that mistake. 

If you are looking for results and racing for the best possible time you can achieve, you need to start working on speed now too.  There are two reasons.  First, speed for the sake of speed, you just want to be as fast as you can.  Second, by doing higher intensity interval training, running and biking, you will recruit as much of your slow twitch muscle as possible.  If you are really good and do this over a longer period, you will even convert fast twitch to act like slow twitch muscle.  What's the difference you ask?  Slow twitch burns body fat, which even the leanest racers have a virtually unlimited supply of.  Fast twitch burns stored glycogen, which is very limited.  You want to build a fat burning machine that works as efficiently as possible.  You can then go a lot harder for a lot longer.  If you want to email me your training plan, we can look at it more closely and figure out when/where/how you should work in the higher intensity.  You have to be very careful when you do it, and how you do it.  This is where injury is most likely to occur, but it also produces ridiculous results.  I dropped my 5k PR by4 minutes last year to 22:29 outdoors, and look to go 21 and change in a couple weeks at my first of the year.  I dropped my half marathon PR by 13 minutes last year doing the same stuff and hope to drop it another 5 minutes this year.  Get fast, then get far.

Brian,

Looks like an awesome fun weekend.  I'd go moderate on the bike as far as time, and watch your HR closely.  Know your zones well, and know that they are lower on the bike than on the run.  I assume you may already know that, but just in case as this is a beginner forum, we should cover that.  HR zones on the bike should be much lower than on the run, and they are worth learning.

When doing that slow bike, think about your pedal stroke.  Think 3 to 9, not 12 to 6.  If you can, you should work in some isolated leg training on a ride like that where it is flat to really recruit your hip flexors.  Think efficiency in every rotation, remember to pull up, not just push down. 

With regards to your strength, that's a tough deal.  As a guy who take great pride in having arms like tree trunks, I can tell you it's hard to let it go.  I can also tell you that if you don't, it will be nothing but an albatross on race days.  Muscle is dense and heavy, you know that.  But did you also know that it takes a tremendous amount of energy to cool?  It builds heat and saps your body of vital energy that should be going to move you forward, not keep you from boiling from the inside out.  I still have huge arms, but I only work to maintain definition in them.  I look like a goof at my size just lifting with 15 and 20 pound dumbells when I used to curl 60's, but my arms look good and don't hold me back.  They won't even help you in the pool, muscle sinks like a stone brother.  Do functional strength training to calm your mind, and you'll be just fine. 

Hi Mark,
After reading your bio and accomplishments, I thought that perhaps I was not ready for your group. However, your enthusiasm, interest and experience are probably just what I need. I’m new to tri’s; I did one sprint last year – loved it. I’ve always been active in one form or another since my 20’s, now I’m in my 40’s. I’m hoping to do at least 3 sprint distance tri’s this year. The first is coming up mid-may. My strength was running but I have suffered some over-use issues that I am still dealing with. A recent relapse has put me on rest for the last two weeks. I’m thinking about being ready for an Oly in the next 2 years and then I will re-evaluate to see if I have a HIM in my future. I’m also planning on doing a ½ marathon next year, if my body will allow it.

1.  Are you using any sort of training plan or just working as you go?
I kind of follow the 20 week 2x balanced sprint plan (begin it in Jan). I was subbing the 20wk 2x bal Oly run times because I have to do a ½ marathon relay at the end of April.

2.  Do you have an idea of what kind of mileage you are running weekly? In March I had about 4.25 mi per week.
3.  What kind of 5k pace do you currently run? Gotta look that up. I'm slow right now.

4.  Do you have any idea of how far you can swim, and what your T Pace would be (T Pace is your pace per 100m for a 1000m swim). I haven’t formally tested myself yet. I’m ok with roughly 500 m with some rest but I need to work on swimming endurance and form.
5.  What sort of web sites do you frequent for "how to" videos? YouTube, Active.com, Competitor.com, Goswim, Lavamagazine.com.

2011 Races
NYColonCancer Challenge – 4mi run (Unable to run due to injury)
NJ ½MarathonRelay
Kick Off Tri: Classic Distance
Philadelphia Women’s Triathlon
JerseyGirl Triathlon

Weight Loss – could stand to shed about 5lbs.

I hope to be able to learn from this group and stay motivated, even through my injuries. I’ve been a little down because I have not been able to move ahead in my training. I’m considering my A race to be one in July, so there is still time to heal and build up to it.  
 That’s the quick summary. Am I in?

~Xandra

Willrunforchocolate,

Welcome.  Let's get right to it.  You need to swim, then swim some more, then do it again!  You also need to visit Mr. Smooth's swimming tutorial.  http://www.swimsmooth.com/  I think everyone can benefit from this.  For what it's worth, I sucked at swimming a year ago, now I'm far better than the average athlete I swim with, and I swim with some real animals.  I put in a minimum of 7000m/week and 10000m every other week.  The other thing about swimming is that it helps your overall fitness a lot more, as it's anaerobic work.  The tough news is, you have to do it 3x/week to be good and get better. 

All that said, swimming is hard to teach, but I'm now thinking that maybe I should put together a conference call for you all where we can all watch Mr. Smooth and go through the basics and I can put some color to it.  If there's some demand for that, I can put that together. 

Running.  Keep your running mileage high to train for the longer events.  If you are doing sprints, the endurance won't hurt your tri's.  If you cut back, however, you'd kill your marathon chances.  If you look at my schedule, which has changed some since I posted in Jan., you'll see 1/2 marathons and a marathon in there.  I'll have to keep a keen eye as I approach my "A" race in mid August that I have a marathon in mid October and want to be at or under 3:50 for that.  So I have to train accordingly on the run.  By the way, if you do anything longer than a sprint, it's all about the run anyways.  IF you do Ironman, the entire day is a warmup for the run.  Trust me on that.

I think for you we need to get you some swim workouts and structure, and get you on the bike.  Your running is probably going to be easy, your times are good.  A little track and you'll kick some .

Xandra,

You're in!  Welcome.  Now let's figure out what you can do and still heal.  What type of injury are you dealing with and what are your restrictions?  The great thing about triathlon is that there are lots of ways to train through injury to keep your fitness up without screwing yourself up.  You have TONS of time until your July race, so we'll not fret.  Give me some details and let's figure out your options.  If you don't want to share publicly, you can PM me or email me at [email protected]

Weekend Workouts:

Weekends are the best chance I get for longer workouts, so this weekend my goals are:

1. Long bike ride Saturday - 20km on the indoor trainer.
2. Long run on Sunday - 10km, trying to slightly up pace from last week's long run and do longer interval (I run walk - last week was 5 min run/1 min walk - this weekend 6 min run/1 min walk)

Laurie,

Do you do any drills when you're doing your ride?  I would suggest that you spend a few minutes working on Isolated Leg Training (one leg drills) and vary up your routine with some high cadence work and some lower cadence strength work.  I can help you with a workout like that if you wish.  I'd switch it up more based on time than mileage when using a trainer too.

I'd love to join your mentor group. 

After years of cycling, I started out in triathlons last year.   I did two Olys, a sprint and an HIM last year along with two half marathons and a few shorter running events.  This year I completed my first marathon and my second HIM and I am doing my first iron distance event at Beach2Battleship this October.

1.  Are you using any sort of training plan or just working as you go?

Coached

2.  Do you have an idea of what kind of mileage you are running weekly?

Right now, mostly cycling.  5-10 miles/week running since HIM last month.

3.  What kind of 5k pace do you currently run?

~8:20

4.  Do you have any idea of how far you can swim, and what your T Pace would be (T Pace is your pace per 100m for a 1000m swim).

Nope.

5.  What sort of web sites do you frequent for "how to" videos?

 youtube

I can share. Other's may benefit. I had "Patella Femoral Syndrome" in my left knee last year. Went through PT, got it under control enough to run. Then, I pulled something in my back, possibly my psoas, last July. I went to a chiro and did some massage just  to be able to stand up straight. I never went to PT. This has persisted since. I have not gone to PT because it hasn't really stopped me since the initial incident. Two weeks ago I began to up my effort a bit and I did a few hard (for me) sessions and the next thing I know, my knee is hurting again, classic PFS, can't walk up or down stairs. My IT and calves were killing me when I used a foam roller. I was so tight, something had to give.

My main problem is my back and I believe it's throwing everything off, casusing an imbalance. I stretch, roll out, do dynamic stretches before most runs & wt. training. I warm up and cool down. It seem the more I do the "right things" the tighter I get. I'm going to a PT next week and will know more then. I'll be testing the waters with a walk/run, swim and bike over the next 3 days.

I sit at a desk all day long and have years of poor posture to fight against.

Welcome Janyne.  You've got a ton of great experience and I'm sure you'll be able to add to the group too.  You're going to love the 140.6, it's a spirtual experience, and I can't describe it any other way.  To overcome all that stands in your way and bust through barriers like never before is like being on another plane altogether.  Just remember, it's not 2x a half IM though...it's harder.  With hard work and prep though, I truly believe that anyone who is committed to it can do it. 

Please see the questions that I've posted and take a whack at answering them, and we can go from there.

I do some speed drills during my shorter rides during the week and one where I use harder gears to simulate hills. I haven't done isolated leg training (actually only started using clipless pedals about two weeks ago!) but would definitely appreciate a more defined workout - thanks! I will probably use the trainer most of April still, so appreciate your suggestion re: time over km. Thanks!

Try this one:

60 minutes

10' W/U easy spinning, nothing fancy

3 x 30 seconds Isolated Leg Training.  This will be hard if it's your first time.  Do one leg for 30 seconds, immediately switch to the other for 30 seconds, that's one rep.  Spin for 1 minute with both legs, then move on to the second set, then the third.  DO THIS IN A GEAR WITH LITTLE RESISTANCE and focus on SMOOTH CIRCLES, DON'T LET IT "CLANK", WORK TO ELIMINATE ANY DEAD SPOTS, USUALLY TOWARDS THE TOP OF THE STROKE.  As you get better with this, you'll start to go faster.  The low gear makes the drill harder.

2 x 5' strength/climb.  Put it in hardest gear and work for 5 minutes.  Try to remain seated, stand only if neccessary and only for up to 30 seconds at a time.  Rest 3 minutes between sets.

Easy spin for the remaining time.  Focus on keeping your cadence high (above 85, above 90 if you can).

Hey Denise! I would love to pick your brain. I'm pretty excited to see some Minnesotan's on here! Immediate questions re: Chain of Lakes:
1) What is the transition area like? (is it 1 transition area for T1 & T2?)
2) How hilly are the "rolling hills" on the cycle? I'm heading out to ride the route a week from tomorrow, so I'll actually be able to answer that question myself soon.
3) for the swim I'm worried that I didn't put myself in the right time-estimate when I registered. I picked the 12-14 minute and I'm getting close, but I'm still probably more like 15-16 minutes...do they care if you mis-juged your pace a little?

1.  Are you using any sort of training plan or just working as you go?
Yes, a generic plan I found online that I modified to fit my schedule. I felt the ability level of this one was about right for me. The only thing I haven't followed is the swim distance because I'm actually swimming about twice this far in my Masters class. I do dial back about 25% for recovery weeks. (I've attached the workout plan below)

2.  Do you have an idea of what kind of mileage you are running weekly?
I am running based on time, not distance, but it looks like I've been running a little over 5 miles/week. Running is not my strength, but because of past back injuries I've had to ease back into it very slowly. My race run is only 2.8 miles, so I feel good. I focus on form & cadence in my runs.

3.  What kind of 5k pace do you currently run?
My PR (based on 1 race) is 32:30. I think I'm running around 35:00 right now.

4.  Do you have any idea of how far you can swim, and what your T Pace would be (T Pace is your pace per 100m for a 1000m swim).
My longest swim workout has been 2100m over the course of about 70 minutes. I've only done timed 100's once (last week) and I think my average was about 2:20

5.  What sort of web sites do you frequent for "how to" videos?
Probably just youtube...

I really enjoy that book by Friel, especially his mentality that the only goal for your first triathlon should be to cross the finish line with a smile on your face! Okay, personally I believe in the multiple-goal program, but that is the only one that really matters for me in this first race. I've set optimistic time-goals for myself for each discipline and for the total race, but those are secondary to finishing & having fun.

Thanks! No, I have not done an open water swim before. Well, I've swum in lakes & the ocean but never racing, and never with a bunch of people. Luckily my first tri is a pool-swim (part of the reason I picked it). At the time of registration I had to estimate my swim for the purpose of being split up into heats, and the website indicates there will be 2-4 people per lane. Joining the Masters class has really eased my anxiety about sharing a crowded lane. I *hope* there aren't 4 people in my lane, but I can manage if there are.

As for open-water. I eventually want to do it, but the anxiety is definitely being in a lake & not being able to see. I have way too active an imagination and find myself picturing giant fish, dead bodies...sounds stupid but the last several years I've tried to swim with my face in the water in lakes I start to panic. :/

Sorry for all the multiple-posts-in-a-row! I'm never online at night, so this is when I catch up.

Mark,
The generic training plan I'm using tracks by time, not distance, for the most part. There has basically been 1 key workout/sport each month, but I don't really know what to do for key workouts. I've done some time intervals and "hill" work on the stationary bike, but now that I'm outside I have no idea how that translates. I also have tried some cycling drills re: spinning, pedaling up, etc. As for running, I will do some "striders", but again, I don't know much about how to do speed work. Sometimes I run hills but I haven't at all lately.

I suppose today was a bit of a key workout since it was a brick: 60 min cycle followed by 20 min run. I didn't focus on anything special. This weekend I'm schedule to run 25 minutes @ low intensity on Saturday & cycle 70 min @ moderate intensity on Sunday. I also hope to get in a short swim on Sunday.

What do you think I should focus on?

Here are the questions:

1.  Are you using any sort of training plan or just working as you go?

EVERYONE says to GET A PLAN but I'm dragging my feet because I just can't find one that works for me.  I guess I must be "speshul".    So, I've made it all up on my own.  right now I'm doing 160-250 km of cycling with 1x 90 (or 60), 1x 60 and 2 x 40km/week.  I have been doing BarryP's running plan and will plateau here in April with 20, 40, 20, 40, 20, 60 minute runs 6-7x week and swimming is entirely dependent on the sea.  I had a good February but March sucked with the sea and April is starting out the same way.  I might be forced to swim in the pool (10m) today.  I was a fish as a kid though so swimming is not something I'm worried about.  I would say I shoot for 6000-8000 m/week.

2.  Do you have an idea of what kind of mileage you are running weekly?

I spent 2 years chasing chronic calf tears trying to do Hal Higedon's program so now I've drunk BarryP's Koolaid and I only do minutes.  I am going to plateau at 200 minutes this month (each week) and work in increasing again in May just before I taper.

3.  What kind of 5k pace do you currently run?

Not exactly sure, but my only triathlon (Sprint 13-march) was about a 6m/km (10 m/mile) and I was running and limping. 

4.  Do you have any idea of how far you can swim, and what your T Pace would be (T Pace is your pace per 100m for a 1000m swim).

Only triathlon was a 2:00 min/100 m average (but we were going upcurrent 1/2 the swim and into breakers the other 1/2 - out to sea, back to shore, up (against strong current) upriver. 

5.  What sort of web sites do you frequent for "how to" videos?

Um, none.

About me - I 'm 50 and have 4 kids and we live in Mexico.  My swim workouts are in the Caribbean (warm, but dodging cuddas, rays and whatever else feels like visiting - 2 recent shark attacks 80km away), bike is along the carretera (only place to ride as we're limited with pavement) and run is a 3km loop jungle trail. 

March training was:

 and right now I'm around 10-12 hours/week (about 3 more if I can get swimming in).  I have a HIM I'm a little freaqued out about on 5-Jun and an IM on end November. 

My athletic background is I was a fish as a kid (8-20ish) and on a whim with no training did a HIM in the early 80s.  That was about the end of athletics for me but I kind of got into centuries and cycling in the early 90s.  by the mid 90s I was pregnant and popping the kids out and ballooned up and about 2 years ago decided to finally get rid of the 'baby' weight and lost 15 kg.  I still have probably another 10kg to go.  I started walking 2 years ago - that led to running which led to chronic calf tears which led to cross training and in November of last year I started cycling for the first time in about 20 years.  I found a local sprint triathlon on 13-march of this year and was very happy with my performance - training since November and I was 4th woman out of the water and still ended up beating 1/2 the female field after pulling something in my leg and limping the entire run.  I was 2nd in my AG (my goal was to take my AG and I would have had it not been for injury) and 60th out of 150 so I figure I'm doing at least SOMETHING right in my training but now I'm really scared I won't be ready for the HIM.  The HIM is really only a tester as I am really gunning for the IM.  Just to finish - but to finish without wanting to die. 

So races planned are HIM 5-Jun (we will start from the island Cortes reportedly landed on and swim to shore) and then the Cozumel IM 27ish November.

Oops just found the other question. 

Q: WHAT IS YOUR KEY WORKOUT(S) THIS WEEKEND AND HOW WILL YOU APPROACH THESE?

MY ANSWER:   Um, dunno?  Wow.  I feel like the teacher just gave me a pop quiz and I forgot to read the chapter.  Um, well, Saturday is 60km bike and 20 min run and Sunday is 40 min run and 2100 yd swim but my long ride is Monday (90km) and long run was today (60 min) so I'm not sure if you're talking about long workouts or just giving us an exercise.  At any rate, um, can you call on Ellen? - I'm SURE she read the chapter.    Um, well, um, I am at a loss.  Can I get a makeup quiz?    I'll think on this. 

Kathy,

You're a real go getter!  It sounds like your training volume is not an issue, and type seems about right.  The running is a real challenge if you wish to be competitive at the 70.3 and 140.6, because those races are all about the run...and the 140.6 the 4th discipline of nutrition becomes HUGE too.  So I have some questions unique to you:

1.  Do you have experience with a nutrition plan?  Do you know about how many calories per hour you need to, or should consume, and what products are safe for you to use for extended periods of time without gastro issues?

2.  How is your running today with your injuries?  Are you able to increase duration or speed?

3.  Have you spent any time running off the bike?  It's very early in your training for that, so I wouldn't be concerned, just more related to how it feels related to your leg injuries.

Mark,

If you still have room, I would like to join your group - if so, background and answers to your questions to follow shortly.

You are SO diplomatic.  It is okay to say it.  yes, I am certifiable.  I know that Everyone says not to do long distance as your first tri - that's why I did the sprint.    But yeah, I know that the way I'm doing it is not accepted as The Way.  So you can call me crazy.  That's okay.  Also I'm not looking to be competetive - I was at the sprint because I thought I could take my AG based solely and the fact that I'm an old fart and i figured the other old farts would be slow (which was WRONG) but I have NO illusions about the HIM and IM.  I just want to finish those and finish as comfortably as possible - I don't want to be dying out there just hoping to make the cutoffs.  Does that make sense?

1.  Do you have experience with a nutrition plan?  Do you know about how many calories per hour you need to, or should consume, and what products are safe for you to use for extended periods of time without gastro issues?

Wow, that was SCREAMING fast!    Um, my nutrition plan is not to bonk.  Seriously, I don't think i have done anything long enough yet to require a nutrition plan but I've been experimenting on the 90km rides and it seems like 1/2 scoop of Cytomax works but I really have to work on liquids - my 60km and 90km rides have left me a bit dehydrated and I am DYING to suck down liters after the ride but can't as I know it won't work on the run.  So I do need to work on that.  Temp has been in the 30s here but we probably won't get much hotter than 33-35 (course that is with 80% humidity).  I really only have 1 choice, GUs (I did 3 of these on last 90km bike and the run was okay after that) and Cytomax we have had muled down.  As a matter of fact we have 5 more cans waiting to come down here so if anyone is sick of winter and wants to visit and can mule us 5 cans of Cytomax...but I digress.  I have just started experimenting with this so my short answer is DOH!  Not a clue yet.

2.  How is your running today with your injuries?  Are you able to increase duration or speed?

I'm not going to work on speed at all.  I have been very slowly (5-10%) been increasing since Jan and am now comfortably at 200 min (3 hours 20 min) a week.  I will most likely stay here for at least another week (I keep promising myself all of April but is hard to listen to the good angel) and then start increasing again 220, 240, 260 min weeks.  It has taken me over a year to look Very Long Term and to go very slowly with increasing.

3.  Have you spent any time running off the bike?  It's very early in your training for that, so I wouldn't be concerned, just more related to how it feels related to your leg injuries.