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Pick a Side Wisconsin (Page 2)
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  2011-02-21 7:31 PM in reply to: #3364899 |
 Subject: ...This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2011-02-21 7:42 PM in reply to: #3365977 |
Master 1895    | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin Fred Doucette - 2011-02-21 8:31 PM Interesting. The poll is 51 to 22 in favor of Gov. Walker's bill. Yet most of the non-silly comments are against the bill. So what can we learn from that fact alone? ie; large majority for it, yet few willing to publicly state it? Maybe most of us think our vote does the talking.... I am for the bill in its entirety. |
| 2011-02-21 7:54 PM in reply to: #3364899 |
Expert 798 Kewaunee, WI | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin I have taken a beating over this bill from those who stand across the aisle from me. I am fairly certain I have lost friends over this very issue. I have a friend who has been disowned by her family for voting for Walker. She happens to be my closest friend, yet we have politically divergent views. I am sick and tired of being vilified for being a government worker. I also own a fairly successful small business. So, I have a foot in both the public and private sector. I work my government job for the benefits and because my job directly impacts the environment and indirectly the people of WI. I DO NOT WORK FOR THE MONEY. Take away my benefit package, and then add to it the nasty energy I am feeling at work. What is the point of me going to work?? I actually make more money working for my ouw business than I do for the government with half of the stress. According to Rush all I am is a free loader anyway. My point is that the government stands to lose an excellent scientist and many great employees. But then again, who needs the clean water and air, good public schools and the like. Jaded, who me?? |
| 2011-02-21 7:55 PM in reply to: #3365993 |
| Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin hamiltks10 - 2011-02-21 5:42 PM Fred Doucette - 2011-02-21 8:31 PM Interesting. The poll is 51 to 22 in favor of Gov. Walker's bill. Yet most of the non-silly comments are against the bill. So what can we learn from that fact alone? ie; large majority for it, yet few willing to publicly state it? Maybe most of us think our vote does the talking.... I am for the bill in its entirety. Politics, like the stock market are based on both reality & perception. FWIW, I'm for the Bill, if there were any question as to where I stand. |
| 2011-02-21 7:55 PM in reply to: #3365977 |
| Master 1529 Living in the past | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin Fred Doucette - 2011-02-21 7:31 PM Interesting. The poll is 51 to 22 in favor of Gov. Walker's bill. Yet most of the non-silly comments are against the bill. So what can we learn from that fact alone? ie; large majority for it, yet few willing to publicly state it? Or nothing... I voted in this poll earlier. My point-of-view is clear in the thread that spawned this poll. |
| 2011-02-21 8:03 PM in reply to: #3364899 |
Expert 2189 Dodge County, MN (out in the corn) | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin I am against the bill. I'm a teacher and I see this as one more in a long line of attacks on education in this country. I have no idea why people are so vehemently against public education and teachers. Yes, we have a union. Its purpose is to ensure fair working conditions and salary. I make a little over $40k for the 10 months a year I work. I take home an ungodly amount of work every weekend. This weekend alone, I've read and graded almost 90 essays, with more being turned in tonight. My class sizes are ridiculous-- 30-33 in a class; 5 classes a day. My union protects my work environment a bit by bargaining for a contract that limits my student load to 160 per semester. Yes, I teach about 160 kids a day. Without this limit in my contract, who knows how many kids I would have in a class. This is just ONE small example of why teachers need collective bargaining representation. Please don't tell me how if I don't like it, I should go to the private sector. I'm in it for the long haul; this is my 22nd year. It saddens me how few people in this country truly respect teachers as professionals. I'm pretty sure that a lot of parents treat their hourly babysitter with more respect and dignity. At least that's the impression I get from reading my way around the Internet. |
| 2011-02-21 8:11 PM in reply to: #3366011 |
| Master 1529 Living in the past | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin TracyV - 2011-02-21 7:54 PM I have taken a beating over this bill from those who stand across the aisle from me. I am fairly certain I have lost friends over this very issue. I have a friend who has been disowned by her family for voting for Walker. She happens to be my closest friend, yet we have politically divergent views. I am sick and tired of being vilified for being a government worker. I also own a fairly successful small business. So, I have a foot in both the public and private sector. I work my government job for the benefits and because my job directly impacts the environment and indirectly the people of WI. I DO NOT WORK FOR THE MONEY. Take away my benefit package, and then add to it the nasty energy I am feeling at work. What is the point of me going to work?? I actually make more money working for my ouw business than I do for the government with half of the stress. According to Rush all I am is a free loader anyway. My point is that the government stands to lose an excellent scientist and many great employees. But then again, who needs the clean water and air, good public schools and the like. Jaded, who me?? I'd recommend you go over to the thread that started this whole topic, including this poll. IMO there is good debate over there and hopefully you won't find the same vilification you are getting elsewhere. To the content of your post, I take exception to the mis-characterization that the bill is going to take away your benefit package and with the hyperbole you use to try to make a point. This whole discussion has been civil and largely grounded in fact, with opinions clear. Mis-characterizations and overly dramatic language add little to the discussion. |
| 2011-02-21 8:46 PM in reply to: #3364899 |
| Master 1440 | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin I am saying this as a public school teacher for 16 years. I support the bill 100% and I also support the idea of him firing all those whinny little twerps that are getting fraudulent "sick" notes, and pulling the license of the butthole Doctors that are fraudulently giving them. What kind of example are they showing their students? He told everyone exactly what he was going to do during the campaign, and now they are upset because we have a politician in office that is keeping his word. Edited by verga 2011-02-21 8:53 PM |
| 2011-02-21 8:52 PM in reply to: #3365074 |
| Extreme Veteran 499 Racine WI | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin Force - 2011-02-21 10:27 AM pitt83 - 2011-02-21 9:52 AM mrbbrad - 2011-02-21 10:44 AM I side with the cheese. Blessed are the cheesemakers.What of the cheese cutters? Are they not worthy of our praise and blessing? Better be careful with your support of the cheese cutters...... I heard they were a union shop  |
| 2011-02-21 9:00 PM in reply to: #3366033 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin Force - 2011-02-21 9:11 PM TracyV - 2011-02-21 7:54 PM I have taken a beating over this bill from those who stand across the aisle from me. I am fairly certain I have lost friends over this very issue. I have a friend who has been disowned by her family for voting for Walker. She happens to be my closest friend, yet we have politically divergent views. I am sick and tired of being vilified for being a government worker. I also own a fairly successful small business. So, I have a foot in both the public and private sector. I work my government job for the benefits and because my job directly impacts the environment and indirectly the people of WI. I DO NOT WORK FOR THE MONEY. Take away my benefit package, and then add to it the nasty energy I am feeling at work. What is the point of me going to work?? I actually make more money working for my ouw business than I do for the government with half of the stress. According to Rush all I am is a free loader anyway. My point is that the government stands to lose an excellent scientist and many great employees. But then again, who needs the clean water and air, good public schools and the like. Jaded, who me?? I'd recommend you go over to the thread that started this whole topic, including this poll. IMO there is good debate over there and hopefully you won't find the same vilification you are getting elsewhere. To the content of your post, I take exception to the mis-characterization that the bill is going to take away your benefit package and with the hyperbole you use to try to make a point. This whole discussion has been civil and largely grounded in fact, with opinions clear. Mis-characterizations and overly dramatic language add little to the discussion. I'm with the black and white dude above. I don't think you are a villain and for what it's worth, I like you a heck of a lot more than I like Rush. |
| 2011-02-22 4:43 AM in reply to: #3366033 |
| Expert 798 Kewaunee, WI | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin Force - 2011-02-21 8:11 PM TracyV - 2011-02-21 7:54 PM I have taken a beating over this bill from those who stand across the aisle from me. I am fairly certain I have lost friends over this very issue. I have a friend who has been disowned by her family for voting for Walker. She happens to be my closest friend, yet we have politically divergent views. I am sick and tired of being vilified for being a government worker. I also own a fairly successful small business. So, I have a foot in both the public and private sector. I work my government job for the benefits and because my job directly impacts the environment and indirectly the people of WI. I DO NOT WORK FOR THE MONEY. Take away my benefit package, and then add to it the nasty energy I am feeling at work. What is the point of me going to work?? I actually make more money working for my ouw business than I do for the government with half of the stress. According to Rush all I am is a free loader anyway. My point is that the government stands to lose an excellent scientist and many great employees. But then again, who needs the clean water and air, good public schools and the like. Jaded, who me?? I'd recommend you go over to the thread that started this whole topic, including this poll. IMO there is good debate over there and hopefully you won't find the same vilification you are getting elsewhere. To the content of your post, I take exception to the mis-characterization that the bill is going to take away your benefit package and with the hyperbole you use to try to make a point. This whole discussion has been civil and largely grounded in fact, with opinions clear. Mis-characterizations and overly dramatic language add little to the discussion. I have read the thread. I think I may have posted in it. Yes, the above statement has some colorful language. And no they are not full sail taking away my benefits package, but it is simple math actually. Work harder for me or work harder for you the tax payers for less money?? My altruistic nature is starting to become jaded. I am a drama queen. I admit to that. That is why I rarely post to these threads. Unless anyone has walked a mile in my shoes or the shoes of a person this bill is going to impact, I really don't think anyone can understand our side. I do understand where you are coming from. I am a tax payer. I probably pay a greater portion of my income to taxes than most tax payers because I own a business. I have employees. And our business is not a c-corporation. Edited by TracyV 2011-02-22 4:54 AM |
| 2011-02-22 4:44 AM in reply to: #3366120 |
| Expert 798 Kewaunee, WI | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin Pector55 - 2011-02-21 9:00 PM Force - 2011-02-21 9:11 PM TracyV - 2011-02-21 7:54 PM I have taken a beating over this bill from those who stand across the aisle from me. I am fairly certain I have lost friends over this very issue. I have a friend who has been disowned by her family for voting for Walker. She happens to be my closest friend, yet we have politically divergent views. I am sick and tired of being vilified for being a government worker. I also own a fairly successful small business. So, I have a foot in both the public and private sector. I work my government job for the benefits and because my job directly impacts the environment and indirectly the people of WI. I DO NOT WORK FOR THE MONEY. Take away my benefit package, and then add to it the nasty energy I am feeling at work. What is the point of me going to work?? I actually make more money working for my ouw business than I do for the government with half of the stress. According to Rush all I am is a free loader anyway. My point is that the government stands to lose an excellent scientist and many great employees. But then again, who needs the clean water and air, good public schools and the like. Jaded, who me?? I'd recommend you go over to the thread that started this whole topic, including this poll. IMO there is good debate over there and hopefully you won't find the same vilification you are getting elsewhere. To the content of your post, I take exception to the mis-characterization that the bill is going to take away your benefit package and with the hyperbole you use to try to make a point. This whole discussion has been civil and largely grounded in fact, with opinions clear. Mis-characterizations and overly dramatic language add little to the discussion. I'm with the black and white dude above. I don't think you are a villain and for what it's worth, I like you a heck of a lot more than I like Rush. Thank you. I like you too.  |
| 2011-02-22 4:49 AM in reply to: #3366312 |
| Expert 798 Kewaunee, WI | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin |
| 2011-02-22 7:02 AM in reply to: #3366312 |
| Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin TracyV - 2011-02-22 5:43 AM Force - 2011-02-21 8:11 PM TracyV - 2011-02-21 7:54 PM I have taken a beating over this bill from those who stand across the aisle from me. I am fairly certain I have lost friends over this very issue. I have a friend who has been disowned by her family for voting for Walker. She happens to be my closest friend, yet we have politically divergent views. I am sick and tired of being vilified for being a government worker. I also own a fairly successful small business. So, I have a foot in both the public and private sector. I work my government job for the benefits and because my job directly impacts the environment and indirectly the people of WI. I DO NOT WORK FOR THE MONEY. Take away my benefit package, and then add to it the nasty energy I am feeling at work. What is the point of me going to work?? I actually make more money working for my ouw business than I do for the government with half of the stress. According to Rush all I am is a free loader anyway. My point is that the government stands to lose an excellent scientist and many great employees. But then again, who needs the clean water and air, good public schools and the like. Jaded, who me?? I'd recommend you go over to the thread that started this whole topic, including this poll. IMO there is good debate over there and hopefully you won't find the same vilification you are getting elsewhere. To the content of your post, I take exception to the mis-characterization that the bill is going to take away your benefit package and with the hyperbole you use to try to make a point. This whole discussion has been civil and largely grounded in fact, with opinions clear. Mis-characterizations and overly dramatic language add little to the discussion. I have read the thread. I think I may have posted in it. Yes, the above statement has some colorful language. And no they are not full sail taking away my benefits package, but it is simple math actually. Work harder for me or work harder for you the tax payers for less money?? My altruistic nature is starting to become jaded. I am a drama queen. I admit to that. That is why I rarely post to these threads. Unless anyone has walked a mile in my shoes or the shoes of a person this bill is going to impact, I really don't think anyone can understand our side. I do understand where you are coming from. I am a tax payer. I probably pay a greater portion of my income to taxes than most tax payers because I own a business. I have employees. And our business is not a c-corporation. So what does WI do? Do you think they should just leave the HC and the pension plans as is? Allow the unions to keep their collective bargaining contract in place? If that's the case then you need to be prepared for (possibly) you and 6,000+ others to lose their jobs. That means you will all be working a bit harder for the money and benefits you earn (or you'll be looking for a job) Any chance there will be no complaints about that? Wanna bet a year from now the teachers will be asking for a pay raise because they have to work so much harder? |
| 2011-02-22 7:09 AM in reply to: #3366011 |
| Master 2946 Centennial, CO | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin TracyV - 2011-02-21 6:54 PM I have taken a beating over this bill from those who stand across the aisle from me. I am fairly certain I have lost friends over this very issue. I have a friend who has been disowned by her family for voting for Walker. She happens to be my closest friend, yet we have politically divergent views. I am sick and tired of being vilified for being a government worker. I also own a fairly successful small business. So, I have a foot in both the public and private sector. I work my government job for the benefits and because my job directly impacts the environment and indirectly the people of WI. I DO NOT WORK FOR THE MONEY. Take away my benefit package, and then add to it the nasty energy I am feeling at work. What is the point of me going to work?? I actually make more money working for my ouw business than I do for the government with half of the stress. According to Rush all I am is a free loader anyway. My point is that the government stands to lose an excellent scientist and many great employees. But then again, who needs the clean water and air, good public schools and the like. Jaded, who me?? I am also a public employee. And my take is that the system is messed up. I believe that the reason we are villified is that most solutions that they come up with protect the employees for the wrong reasons. There are many really good workers in government. Very smart people who do their job well. But, there are many other workers who are there to coast through life and live off the security of their job. These employees give the rest of us a bad name. And the government chooses to hire and fire based upon seniority. This would never fly in the private sector. It is time to cut dead weight rather than penalize the good employees. Let the public see that we can do the same work with less people assuming that we pay good money for good people. If you give people a good product they are willing to pay for it. If you charge more for an average product people will go elsewhere. Being average isn't good enough... This is why I support this bill. We the employees need to be invested in the process/program. That means contributing. Step 2 is trim the fat. But this must come from those who add little or nothing to the organization. (Note, I am not saying cut people who make too much money or are old! Just those who feel entitled to stay but don't earn their share.) We could literally fire maybe 15-20% of the employees, replace them with 3-5% who would actually work their rears off and be financially in a better place. This is just my $.02. |
| 2011-02-22 7:15 AM in reply to: #3366025 |
| Master 2946 Centennial, CO | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin rowdypaint - 2011-02-21 7:03 PM I am against the bill. I'm a teacher and I see this as one more in a long line of attacks on education in this country. I have no idea why people are so vehemently against public education and teachers. Yes, we have a union. Its purpose is to ensure fair working conditions and salary. I make a little over $40k for the 10 months a year I work. I take home an ungodly amount of work every weekend. This weekend alone, I've read and graded almost 90 essays, with more being turned in tonight. My class sizes are ridiculous-- 30-33 in a class; 5 classes a day. My union protects my work environment a bit by bargaining for a contract that limits my student load to 160 per semester. Yes, I teach about 160 kids a day. Without this limit in my contract, who knows how many kids I would have in a class. This is just ONE small example of why teachers need collective bargaining representation. Please don't tell me how if I don't like it, I should go to the private sector. I'm in it for the long haul; this is my 22nd year. It saddens me how few people in this country truly respect teachers as professionals. I'm pretty sure that a lot of parents treat their hourly babysitter with more respect and dignity. At least that's the impression I get from reading my way around the Internet. I think it is sad that teachers think they are not valued. Good teachers are valued and remembered fondly by thier students. And not suprisingly people who had good teachers tend to be more successful. But, can you honestly tell me that there are not a good portion of teachers that don't truly suck? My wife was a very good teacher. She now tutors many children from home so she can raise our daughter. But I still remember her complaints about teachers that showed up 5 minutes before class, and ran out at the bell. Teacher who don't do the extra work. Yet the union supports them the same way they support you. After all, they pay their money too. This is the problem. Not being able to hire and fire based upon value. That doesn't fly in the private sector. And government doesn't provide any other options for their customers. |
| 2011-02-22 7:24 AM in reply to: #3366428 |
| Champion 6962 Atlanta, Ga | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin velocomp - 2011-02-22 8:15 AM rowdypaint - 2011-02-21 7:03 PM I am against the bill. I'm a teacher and I see this as one more in a long line of attacks on education in this country. I have no idea why people are so vehemently against public education and teachers. Yes, we have a union. Its purpose is to ensure fair working conditions and salary. I make a little over $40k for the 10 months a year I work. I take home an ungodly amount of work every weekend. This weekend alone, I've read and graded almost 90 essays, with more being turned in tonight. My class sizes are ridiculous-- 30-33 in a class; 5 classes a day. My union protects my work environment a bit by bargaining for a contract that limits my student load to 160 per semester. Yes, I teach about 160 kids a day. Without this limit in my contract, who knows how many kids I would have in a class. This is just ONE small example of why teachers need collective bargaining representation. Please don't tell me how if I don't like it, I should go to the private sector. I'm in it for the long haul; this is my 22nd year. It saddens me how few people in this country truly respect teachers as professionals. I'm pretty sure that a lot of parents treat their hourly babysitter with more respect and dignity. At least that's the impression I get from reading my way around the Internet. I think it is sad that teachers think they are not valued. Good teachers are valued and remembered fondly by thier students. And not suprisingly people who had good teachers tend to be more successful. But, can you honestly tell me that there are not a good portion of teachers that don't truly suck? My wife was a very good teacher. She now tutors many children from home so she can raise our daughter. But I still remember her complaints about teachers that showed up 5 minutes before class, and ran out at the bell. Teacher who don't do the extra work. Yet the union supports them the same way they support you. After all, they pay their money too. This is the problem. Not being able to hire and fire based upon value. That doesn't fly in the private sector. And government doesn't provide any other options for their customers. And this is where the public and private sector...in my mind...clash. I firmly believe that you pay me for 40 hrs of work, I'm going to work for 40 hrs. I am NOT going to take extra work home with me and do that on my own time. Pretty much every teacher I know has to do this and I think it's wrong. Perhaps it's my gov't rose colored glasses, but if I'm not getting paid, I'm not working. It's really that simple to me. If you want me to get a job done and it takes me >40 hrs or I have to do some of the project at home, expect a bill and if you don't pay it, then it's not going to get done. |
| 2011-02-22 7:47 AM in reply to: #3364899 |
| Extreme Veteran 799 | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin My question is why do people separate salary and benefits to such a great extent? Benefits are a cost to the employer just like salary. The only difference is that an employee has much less of a say in how benefits are handled. The reason I don't like unions is because they have such a great affect on the work place for teachers. If the voting public believes a class should have less than 20 kids in a classroom, then so bit. Keep the money and the decisions local so that a community can have more of a say in their schools. Even for those that do not have kids, everyone realizes Better schools = Higher Property values. I do not like that unions can dictate how my tax dollars are spent. |
| 2011-02-22 7:49 AM in reply to: #3366439 |
| Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin Marvarnett - 2011-02-22 8:24 AM And this is where the public and private sector...in my mind...clash. I firmly believe that you pay me for 40 hrs of work, I'm going to work for 40 hrs. I am NOT going to take extra work home with me and do that on my own time. Pretty much every teacher I know has to do this and I think it's wrong. Perhaps it's my gov't rose colored glasses, but if I'm not getting paid, I'm not working. It's really that simple to me. If you want me to get a job done and it takes me >40 hrs or I have to do some of the project at home, expect a bill and if you don't pay it, then it's not going to get done. So should your employer be asking you to pay back the time you spend on BT? If you were hourly I'd agree with your post. But most teachers, and I suspect you, are salaried. As an employer I hire people to do a job (not to work for X # of hours). If it takes your 50 hours to get it done then I expect you to work for 50 hours. If things are slow and you get stuff done in 35 hours then I'm not going to be asking for those 5 hours back. People will fill that with personal items (like surfing BT) or even skipping out a bit early on a Friday. I have no issue with that. (Our compnay is unique in that I provide unlimited vacation days. As long as you are getting the work done you take as many/few as you want) In the end it should average out. If this happens all the time then there is an issue and either I'm giving you too much/little to do or you are not working hard enough/too hard. We'd need to figure that out. Edited by TriRSquared 2011-02-22 7:51 AM |
| 2011-02-22 7:54 AM in reply to: #3366439 |
| Regular 525 | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin Marvarnett - 2011-02-22 8:24 AM And this is where the public and private sector...in my mind...clash. I firmly believe that you pay me for 40 hrs of work, I'm going to work for 40 hrs. I am NOT going to take extra work home with me and do that on my own time. Pretty much every teacher I know has to do this and I think it's wrong. Perhaps it's my gov't rose colored glasses, but if I'm not getting paid, I'm not working. It's really that simple to me. If you want me to get a job done and it takes me >40 hrs or I have to do some of the project at home, expect a bill and if you don't pay it, then it's not going to get done. Are you salary or hourly? I would think most teachers are salaried, so they are not paid to work 40 hours a week, they are paid to teach a certain number of hours per year. In addition to teaching their set hours, they are paid to prepare for class and to evaluate the work of their students. That may be 40 hours or it may be more. A salaried employee should never have the expectation that they don't have to and should never work more than 40 hours a week. A salary is paid for the completion of job responsibilities no matter how long that job takes you. |
| 2011-02-22 9:00 AM in reply to: #3366494 |
| Master 2946 Centennial, CO | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin Its Only Money - 2011-02-22 6:54 AM Are you salary or hourly? I would think most teachers are salaried, so they are not paid to work 40 hours a week, they are paid to teach a certain number of hours per year. In addition to teaching their set hours, they are paid to prepare for class and to evaluate the work of their students. That may be 40 hours or it may be more. A salaried employee should never have the expectation that they don't have to and should never work more than 40 hours a week. A salary is paid for the completion of job responsibilities no matter how long that job takes you. X2 this is dead on. |
| 2011-02-22 9:08 AM in reply to: #3366494 |
Expert 864 Village of Lakewood, Illinois Silver member | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin Its Only Money - 2011-02-22 7:54 AM Marvarnett - 2011-02-22 8:24 AM Are you salary or hourly? I would think most teachers are salaried, so they are not paid to work 40 hours a week, they are paid to teach a certain number of hours per year. In addition to teaching their set hours, they are paid to prepare for class and to evaluate the work of their students. That may be 40 hours or it may be more. A salaried employee should never have the expectation that they don't have to and should never work more than 40 hours a week. A salary is paid for the completion of job responsibilities no matter how long that job takes you. And this is where the public and private sector...in my mind...clash. I firmly believe that you pay me for 40 hrs of work, I'm going to work for 40 hrs. I am NOT going to take extra work home with me and do that on my own time. Pretty much every teacher I know has to do this and I think it's wrong. Perhaps it's my gov't rose colored glasses, but if I'm not getting paid, I'm not working. It's really that simple to me. If you want me to get a job done and it takes me >40 hrs or I have to do some of the project at home, expect a bill and if you don't pay it, then it's not going to get done. I used to have an argument with my brother about this sort of thinking. He works for the Post Office and I work for a private company. The argument it turns out comes from how we veiw our jobs. I view mine as I work to get a certain result. I work however many hours it takes to gain that specific result. If it means covering, taking work home, etc. He is paid to complete a task. His task is delivering the mail on one route. That is the task he is paid to complete. There is nothing outside of the task that he should be asked to do. No covering someone elses job, his job is his route and completing that task. Management and employee understand the arrangement. |
| 2011-02-22 9:25 AM in reply to: #3366494 |
| Champion 6962 Atlanta, Ga | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin Its Only Money - 2011-02-22 8:54 AM Marvarnett - 2011-02-22 8:24 AM Are you salary or hourly? I would think most teachers are salaried, so they are not paid to work 40 hours a week, they are paid to teach a certain number of hours per year. In addition to teaching their set hours, they are paid to prepare for class and to evaluate the work of their students. That may be 40 hours or it may be more. A salaried employee should never have the expectation that they don't have to and should never work more than 40 hours a week. A salary is paid for the completion of job responsibilities no matter how long that job takes you. And this is where the public and private sector...in my mind...clash. I firmly believe that you pay me for 40 hrs of work, I'm going to work for 40 hrs. I am NOT going to take extra work home with me and do that on my own time. Pretty much every teacher I know has to do this and I think it's wrong. Perhaps it's my gov't rose colored glasses, but if I'm not getting paid, I'm not working. It's really that simple to me. If you want me to get a job done and it takes me >40 hrs or I have to do some of the project at home, expect a bill and if you don't pay it, then it's not going to get done. I am salary hourly. Yes...that sounds weird. But I get paid a salary based on an hourly wage. I agree that if someone is salary, that you do what it takes to get the job done. BUT...most people, that I know, take that to mean 40 hrs minimum. If I was on salary, I would word how many hours it took for the task. If that means 60 hrs...fine, but if that means 25 hrs...that's fine too. I feel that the problem is that most teachers feel that this 'extra' time is personal time they are forced to put into the job. That is the problem. Either accept that you're not actually working a 40 hr job or renegotiate the terms. |
| 2011-02-22 9:27 AM in reply to: #3366485 |
| Champion 6962 Atlanta, Ga | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin TriRSquared - 2011-02-22 8:49 AM Marvarnett - 2011-02-22 8:24 AM And this is where the public and private sector...in my mind...clash. I firmly believe that you pay me for 40 hrs of work, I'm going to work for 40 hrs. I am NOT going to take extra work home with me and do that on my own time. Pretty much every teacher I know has to do this and I think it's wrong. Perhaps it's my gov't rose colored glasses, but if I'm not getting paid, I'm not working. It's really that simple to me. If you want me to get a job done and it takes me >40 hrs or I have to do some of the project at home, expect a bill and if you don't pay it, then it's not going to get done. So should your employer be asking you to pay back the time you spend on BT? If you were hourly I'd agree with your post. But most teachers, and I suspect you, are salaried. As an employer I hire people to do a job (not to work for X # of hours). If it takes your 50 hours to get it done then I expect you to work for 50 hours. If things are slow and you get stuff done in 35 hours then I'm not going to be asking for those 5 hours back. People will fill that with personal items (like surfing BT) or even skipping out a bit early on a Friday. I have no issue with that. (Our compnay is unique in that I provide unlimited vacation days. As long as you are getting the work done you take as many/few as you want) In the end it should average out. If this happens all the time then there is an issue and either I'm giving you too much/little to do or you are not working hard enough/too hard. We'd need to figure that out. TriR^2, You actually seem like one of the few people that would 'get it' as a boss. (Total compliment). I rarely hear the if you get it done in less hours, great! See ya. Well done and let me know when you are hiring. |
| 2011-02-22 10:24 AM in reply to: #3366762 |
| Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Pick a Side Wisconsin Marvarnett - 2011-02-22 10:27 AM TriR^2, You actually seem like one of the few people that would 'get it' as a boss. (Total compliment). I rarely hear the if you get it done in less hours, great! See ya. Well done and let me know when you are hiring. Will do. Just be aware we're a non-union shop I wish more employers realized these things. Like not censoring the internet (well maybe the adult sites) but people who block YouTube and such, it is just silly. You hire a person to do a job. if you do not trust them to do the job, get rid of them. If they are not pulling their weight you can them. If they get the job done in less time and you budgeted then give them some time off. You can try to squeeze more and more out of a person but eventually they will burn out and hate you. I'd rather a person willingly give me 95% than having to force them to give me 99%. |
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