Social conservatives, what's the end game? (Page 2)

Personally, I don't give a rats a$$ who or what you choose as  you life partner, spouse, or whatever you would like to call them.  The issue I have is that it opens doors to other problems that I don't see being any of the government's business.

For example, gay marriage is legalized.  Two men (or women) decide to "marry."  Both are religious and believe their religion is part of who they are, important enough to want to marry in the church.  Said church denies them on the basis that they don't believe men/women should marry.  The couple sues and now we require the state make a decision about the actions of a church.  This is where my problem is. 

Same type of issue goes with the government funded healthcare.  Effectively, the government is forcing me to pay taxes which can be used to fund birth control, abortions, etc which I do not believe in.  Why is my belief "invalid?"

As for what the country would look like if I got my way, probably very similar to how it looks today.  How will it look since you got your way, probably very similar to how it looks today.  I just don't like the idea of the government having their nose in issues that I believe are very personal.  Regulating business, overall welfare of the country, national security, that is where they should be focusing their time and effort.

Ya... that is the other end of the spectrum. I see atheists no different that evangelicals... I'm not down with their dogma. And I think they are fringe.

But in the democratic party, any thing short of total secularism is unacceptable.  Bill Maher is the perfect example of the derision and contempt that librals show for religion.  Yes I am Christian, but secularists don't want ANY God to interfere with their agenda...not a Christian God, or any other.

Think about that for a minute.

The Catholic Church developed the hospital system to begin with way back when.
Being called to heal the sick is a core belief of the Church.

It's now being attacked by the secularist state
to the point it may need to withdraw from that mission
in order to not violate its conscience.

Practicing my faith is more than praying in private or with the doors shut at Mass.
It's about being leaven in the world.
It's about building up institutions such as the hospital system
and social service systems. 

So yes, religious liberty is under direct attack.
 

For example, gay marriage is legalized.  Two men (or women) decide to "marry."  Both are religious and believe their religion is part of who they are, important enough to want to marry in the church.  Said church denies them on the basis that they don't believe men/women should marry.  The couple sues and now we require the state make a decision about the actions of a church.  This is where my problem is. 

Think about that for a minute.

The Catholic Church developed the hospital system to begin with way back when.
Being called to heal the sick is a core belief of the Church.

It's now being attacked by the secularist state
to the point it may need to withdraw from that mission
in order to not violate its conscience.

Practicing my faith is more than praying in private or with the doors shut at Mass.
It's about being leaven in the world.
It's about building up institutions such as the hospital system
and social service systems. 

So yes, religious liberty is under direct attack.
 

Um excuse me but to which atheists are you referring, and what exactly is "our" dogma?

Think about that for a minute.

The Catholic Church developed the hospital system to begin with way back when.
Being called to heal the sick is a core belief of the Church.

It's now being attacked by the secularist state
to the point it may need to withdraw from that mission
in order to not violate its conscience.

Practicing my faith is more than praying in private or with the doors shut at Mass.
It's about being leaven in the world.
It's about building up institutions such as the hospital system
and social service systems. 

So yes, religious liberty is under direct attack.
 

I think you're mistaken. I'm an atheist so take this for what it's worth. I don't think the specific issue is Christianity. I think it's because many people who want their religion in the public sphere, only want Their own religion there and no one else's. Some people want the 10 commandments on government property. I'm okay with that as long as a Koran, or a Torah or whatever else someone could want is allowed as well. Too often, I see Christians complaining about being attacked when the reason their position is being attacked is because they only want to allow their Christian beliefs in public and not Muslim/Jewish/Wiccan/whatever.

I'm referring to the atheist I used to be. Atheists do not believe in God... as in anti God. I'm sort of agnostic now.. I just don't know and there probably is "something" rather than nothing.

There are those that believe in God, and then there are those that are fundamental evangelical radicals... same goes for atheists. There are some rather extreme atheists out there that are absolutely no different than their counter part.... they are completely self righteous in their beliefs and there is NO room for anything else. And there most certainly is a "dogma" no different than their counterparts. Listen to Bill Maher for about 5 minutes and you should have it down.

If you are not any of the above, then I was not referring to you.

No... there is a broad range of issues that religious practicioners share regardless of their specific denomination.  My observations from my time as a democrat is that ANY religion is suspect.  Liberals are fine with Christian/Muslim/Jewish/Wiccan/whatever as long as we keep in private and in our homes.  They say the support "Freedom to Worship" to borrow a phrase from Obama.  Unfortunately, the constitution guarentees the free excercise of religion, not the freedom to worship, and the free excercise of religion means that religious beliefs can come out of our houses and into our society.   

So you are referring only to a small portion of athiests then, not athiests.  Thank you I appreciate that  I do not see being an athiest as being anti god.  Not believing in something is different than being against something.

I don't listen to Bill Maher and I don't plan to start now. 

If you do not believe in a God, and someone does, that automatically means you are against what they believe. That is how most atheists take it... at least the ones I have known.

If you do not believe in a God, and someone does, that automatically means you are against what they believe. That is how most atheists take it... at least the ones I have known. Seems not believing in something is pretty cut and dried.. I don't believe, nothing left to talk about... yet the debates go on and on and on about why those that do believe are wrong.. that is something else.

Would you be okay with the public expression of religion if it wasn't your religion? Say if it was Islam? 

If you do not believe in a God, and someone does, that automatically means you are against what they believe. That is how most atheists take it... at least the ones I have known. Seems not believing in something is pretty cut and dried.. I don't believe, nothing left to talk about... yet the debates go on and on and on about why those that do believe are wrong.. that is something else.

Hummm... OK, I'll have to think on that a bit.

Of course and without reservation. 

No it means I believe something different it does not mean I am against what they believe.

I actually find religon fascinating.

Think about that for a minute.

The Catholic Church developed the hospital system to begin with way back when.
Being called to heal the sick is a core belief of the Church.

It's now being attacked by the secularist state
to the point it may need to withdraw from that mission
in order to not violate its conscience.

Then that is fine... not that you need my approval... that is just not the experience I have had. I find it fascinating too as well as those that practice what ever they practice. There is a spectrum... but in regards to any belief, those that get the most attention are those ranting about it... those in the middle just go about their day and we never know what they do or don't believe.

Can you help me understand with an example?  Say a expression of your religion that is frowned upon by the liberals, and a similar expression of Islam that you have no problem with.

 Sure.  Prayer at the beginning of a public high school football game.   One week the prayer is offered by christian... great.  The next week the Mulsim player gets the opportunity and prays to Muhammad... wonderful.   In both cases liberals are beside themselves with contempt... NO PRAYING in public schools PERIOD.