Sad day in America (Page 2)

TriRSquared - 2012-11-16 8:44 AM

Not "going out of business" but rather being "forced of of business" by the unions.  The unions refused to end their strike so they have ot close the doors.  18,000 unemployed.

The asked the unions to take a 8% pay cut now with a 3% raise next year and 1% increases thereafter. In return they got a 25% equity stake in the company. Turning that down was crazy.

Unions are bad for this country.  You will never convince me otherwise.

bradleyd3 - 2012-11-16 1:33 PM A lot of the union employees were making upwards of $20 - $22 an hour. An 8% cut for the first year is $1.50-ish an hour. Now....these people don't have a job, aren't eligable for unemployment (in most states, if you're on strike you're not entitled to claim UI benefits)....and I also saw that Hostess was not offering severance packages to laid off workers. If you had to pay 10% of our check for union dues....it would have been smarter to disband the union, take what management offered in an 8% decrease (still would have been 2% up) and still had a GREAT paying blue collar job. now.....you're a statistic.....and people are going to laugh at you for being a fool.

gearboy - 2012-11-16 10:51 AM

So, taking a pay cut that will take 6 years to get back to the baseline level (and after accounting for inflation, would still in reality be a pay cut from now), and a stake in an apparently failing company is a good idea?

I don't know what the unions wanted, so I can't really comment as to whether or not the counter offer was any better. But clearly the owners of the company felt that they did not need to meet those demands, and would be better off closing down the whole thing.

But on a tangentially related note, wasn't the search for the last remaining Twinkies a significant plot point in Zombieland? Is this another sign that the Mayans were correct? First no Twinkies, then walking undead. Seems like the logical progression to me....

nolken - 2012-11-16 2:36 PM i counter that by saying that unions built this country. sometimes though unions can become very selfish and not look at the implications of their actions or the side of their employer. in this case and in this economy it was bluntly obvious they should just suck it up and work and be thankful that they even have a job let alone a job with benefits.

tuwood - 2012-11-16 3:08 PM

THERE'S HOPE

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/nationalize-twinkie-industry/cJz0ngJR

mehaner - 2012-11-16 2:11 PM

TWINKIE BAILOUT

 

bradleyd3 - 2012-11-16 3:13 PM Twinkie Secession??

mehaner - 2012-11-16 2:14 PM

hoho cliff

mehaner - 2012-11-16 1:14 PM

hoho cliff

tuwood - 2012-11-16 1:16 PM

Just noticed one of the signatures:

 

I thought he was for less government.  haha

JoshR - 2012-11-16 2:22 PM

 

I knew the government was spying on me for all my anti Dem/Rep posts. Tuwood is a CIA agent, I'm outing him.

mehaner - 2012-11-16 3:14 PM

hoho cliff

otisbrown - 2012-11-16 3:48 PM

Based on this, I would say the company was demanding a bit much:

 

Mike Hummell, a receiving clerk and a member of the Bakers' union working in Lenexa, Kan., said he was making about $48,000 in 2005 before the company's first trip through bankruptcy. Concessions during that reorganization cut his pay to $34,000 last year, earning $16.12 an hour. He said the latest contract demands would have cut his pay to about $25,000, with significantly higher out-of-pocket expenses for insurance.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/companies/hostess-workers/index.html?iid=Lead

 

The add:

BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256.

 

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/11/16/1203151/why-unions-dont-shoulder-the-blame-for-hostesss-downfall/?mobile=nc

May not be the most credible source. 

In any case, there are always two sides to the story and many are quick to blame the unions without knowing all the facts.  I doubt many on this board would be willing to take a nearly an overall 50% pay cut while watching someone else get huge increments. 

I would have packed my bags after the first round of cuts, but that is just me. 

tuwood - 2012-11-16 3:06 PM

I would have done the same which is the power that we all have and why I would never join a union.  I am my own union and I'm always looking out for my best interests.  I have gone on strike many times via a resignation letter.

When you only look at salaries paid to executives it's a very short sighted view of a company and it's not as simple as "cut their pay and everything will be fine".  Lets say you own a large business that's losing $100M/yr. You bring in a turnaround specialist CEO who demands a $1M salary but has a long track record of raising efficiency and turning things around.  He takes your company from losing $100M to lets say only losing $50M.  He saved you $49M for his $1M salary and likely saved hundreds of jobs.  If you took the same scenario and cut his pay to $100k he would leave and you'd be stuck with a second rate CEO who has no experience and could easily turn the $100M loss into a $150M loss.

TheClaaaw - 2012-11-16 3:26 PMI have been considering stockpiling and waiting until they are gone, then scalping them. But that feels to me, like getting out of rehab to become a drug dealer. But it wouldn't work anyway. Fear not, brand loyalists: the brands will get snapped up by other bakers. There will be twinkies. They will be made by someone else.

kevin_trapp - 2012-11-16 4:50 PM Unfortunately I disagree. The name will be bought, then we'll get some value engineered Twinkie-like piece of crap. twinkies

JoshR - 2012-11-16 9:58 AM

Good news. They will most likely sell off the brands to someone else who will continue making them. 

 

Zombie twinkies?