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2013-06-17 10:56 AM
in reply to: LarchmontTri

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Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
In regards to being under prepared for the bike...

What types are rides do you feel make the most impact on being ready? Maximum miles per week that your schedule allows? Short high intensity rides? Mid distance hard rides? Long rides?

I did 50 mile rides Saturday and Sunday this past weekend and feel that while my bike is definitely improving I still have a ways to go before my first HIM in August and was wondering what was the best way to see gains.


2013-06-17 10:59 AM
in reply to: isurf

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Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
Run in the heat of the day as much as possible so you get used to it because that's when your run starts
2013-06-17 11:16 AM
in reply to: KatieLimb

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Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
You can't out race your training or your nutrition. Training applies to most any distance but nutrition really only comes into play at these longer distances and needs a well thought out plan.
2013-06-17 12:11 PM
in reply to: yazmaster


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Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
Originally posted by yazmaster


  • 2. Also - while nutrition is important, you can do yourself a disservice by reading too many forum posts about complicated HIM nutritional strategies. It's actually not hard - you should be practicing whatever you're going to do on your long bike ride (2.5-3hrs ish) regularly, and that requires minimal modification for the run. Frankly, a lot of people here and elsewhere attribute lack of training or pacing blowups to race day nutrition, when in reality, your gut isn't as fragile as it seems. If you've done it in practice week after week, race day nutrition will be no big deal at all, and you don't need some crazy complicated scientific plan for it.




    Sigh.

    What does this mean? I just did my first half and thought I had the "nutrition" thing figured out. I'd eat and drink what I did during training. I did a trial run of a 34 mile bike, 13 run on the race course and felt good and had a great run time (without aid stations every mile but a water bottle and popsicle placed at mile 7). I knew what I was capable of doing/not doing and I raced my own race. Meaning I let others fly past me on the bike knowing I wasn't capable of picking it up and still managing my run. So I stuck at my pace even though it felt easy peasy. Until my stomach started feeling off and then I was puking. So am I silly for thinking it was nutrition or should I have slowed my bike down even slower? My heart rate was slightly higher than normal but got back to normal by mile 10. The flat tire helped with that!

    (Note- I did mess up with my fluid. Typically I drink Nuun but one of my water bottles was replaced with lake water or some other nasty water. (Some joke!) So I had planned on two bottles of nuun and then switching to water when I normally just use nuun. Instead I only had one bottle of nuun and then some lake water and then clean water.)

    I'm trying to figure this out. I know I can do so much better than I did and I blame my stomach. Should I be blaming me?
    2013-06-17 12:45 PM
    in reply to: k1200rsvt

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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
    Originally posted by k1200rsvt

    In regards to being under prepared for the bike...

    What types are rides do you feel make the most impact on being ready? Maximum miles per week that your schedule allows? Short high intensity rides? Mid distance hard rides? Long rides?

    I did 50 mile rides Saturday and Sunday this past weekend and feel that while my bike is definitely improving I still have a ways to go before my first HIM in August and was wondering what was the best way to see gains.


    4 solid rides per week. with 1 longer above race pace, generally these were 3.5 hrs for me, 75 milers and 2 mid length 2 hrs at even higher intensity. the other 2 were simply interval rides.

    to put it into perspective via watts. my ftp was 268 near the time of the race so for long 3-3.5 hr ride i would do 80% or 215 watts. and mid ride would be at 85% or 225 watts. my intervals were always 2x20 or 4x10 at FTP. my race would be done at just below 80% at about 76-78%.

    following a long ride like that with a run was helpful.

    my one thing i never did and i wish i had since i am such an awful runner is put a solid 60 miler and run 8-10 miles after. i would generally run but at most 3-4 miles after the bike, which is not really much.
    2013-06-17 2:10 PM
    in reply to: Quigley

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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?

    Originally posted by Quigley
    Originally posted by yazmaster . 2. Also - while nutrition is important, you can do yourself a disservice by reading too many forum posts about complicated HIM nutritional strategies. It's actually not hard - you should be practicing whatever you're going to do on your long bike ride (2.5-3hrs ish) regularly, and that requires minimal modification for the run. Frankly, a lot of people here and elsewhere attribute lack of training or pacing blowups to race day nutrition, when in reality, your gut isn't as fragile as it seems. If you've done it in practice week after week, race day nutrition will be no big deal at all, and you don't need some crazy complicated scientific plan for it.
    Sigh. What does this mean? I just did my first half and thought I had the "nutrition" thing figured out. I'd eat and drink what I did during training. I did a trial run of a 34 mile bike, 13 run on the race course and felt good and had a great run time (without aid stations every mile but a water bottle and popsicle placed at mile 7). I knew what I was capable of doing/not doing and I raced my own race. Meaning I let others fly past me on the bike knowing I wasn't capable of picking it up and still managing my run. So I stuck at my pace even though it felt easy peasy. Until my stomach started feeling off and then I was puking. So am I silly for thinking it was nutrition or should I have slowed my bike down even slower? My heart rate was slightly higher than normal but got back to normal by mile 10. The flat tire helped with that! (Note- I did mess up with my fluid. Typically I drink Nuun but one of my water bottles was replaced with lake water or some other nasty water. (Some joke!) So I had planned on two bottles of nuun and then switching to water when I normally just use nuun. Instead I only had one bottle of nuun and then some lake water and then clean water.) I'm trying to figure this out. I know I can do so much better than I did and I blame my stomach. Should I be blaming me?

    If you were puking, it's likely you were putting more calories in your stomach than it could digest.  Eventually your body responds by hitting the purge button.

    My first guess would be that you took in too many calories right after the swim without letting your HR or bloodflow settle.

    When we are swimming, our bloodflow is going horizontally across our body, and mostly to our arms.  When we get out of the water, our HR tends to sky rocket because now we are pumping blood vertically throughout our body and mostly too our legs.  This drastic adjustment takes a toll on us and leaves virtually no bloodflow to be directed to our stomach for digestion. 

    The common mistake people make out of the swim is that they immediately down a full bottle of sports drink or a couple of gels because they didn't get any hydration or nutrition in during the swim.  So basically all these calories are just going to sit in your stomach and can't be digested due to lack of proper bloodflow.  Then 30 minutes later, you start dumping more calories in on top of that.  Pretty soon your stomach is too far behind on digestion and you puke. 

    My advice is to avoid taking in any calories for the first 20 minutes on the bike.  Give your body some time to acclimate to biking and for your HR to settle.  Water is okay, just no calories.



    2013-06-17 2:11 PM
    in reply to: trix

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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?

    Originally posted by trix
    Originally posted by k1200rsvt In regards to being under prepared for the bike... What types are rides do you feel make the most impact on being ready? Maximum miles per week that your schedule allows? Short high intensity rides? Mid distance hard rides? Long rides? I did 50 mile rides Saturday and Sunday this past weekend and feel that while my bike is definitely improving I still have a ways to go before my first HIM in August and was wondering what was the best way to see gains.
    4 solid rides per week. with 1 longer above race pace, generally these were 3.5 hrs for me, 75 milers and 2 mid length 2 hrs at even higher intensity. the other 2 were simply interval rides. to put it into perspective via watts. my ftp was 268 near the time of the race so for long 3-3.5 hr ride i would do 80% or 215 watts. and mid ride would be at 85% or 225 watts. my intervals were always 2x20 or 4x10 at FTP. my race would be done at just below 80% at about 76-78%. following a long ride like that with a run was helpful. my one thing i never did and i wish i had since i am such an awful runner is put a solid 60 miler and run 8-10 miles after. i would generally run but at most 3-4 miles after the bike, which is not really much.

    Whoa...did you just come out of retirement or something?

    2013-06-17 6:35 PM
    in reply to: Quigley


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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
    Originally posted by Quigley

    Originally posted by yazmaster


  • 2. Also - while nutrition is important, you can do yourself a disservice by reading too many forum posts about complicated HIM nutritional strategies. It's actually not hard - you should be practicing whatever you're going to do on your long bike ride (2.5-3hrs ish) regularly, and that requires minimal modification for the run. Frankly, a lot of people here and elsewhere attribute lack of training or pacing blowups to race day nutrition, when in reality, your gut isn't as fragile as it seems. If you've done it in practice week after week, race day nutrition will be no big deal at all, and you don't need some crazy complicated scientific plan for it.




    Sigh.

    What does this mean? I just did my first half and thought I had the "nutrition" thing figured out. I'd eat and drink what I did during training. I did a trial run of a 34 mile bike, 13 run on the race course and felt good and had a great run time (without aid stations every mile but a water bottle and popsicle placed at mile 7). I knew what I was capable of doing/not doing and I raced my own race. Meaning I let others fly past me on the bike knowing I wasn't capable of picking it up and still managing my run. So I stuck at my pace even though it felt easy peasy. Until my stomach started feeling off and then I was puking. So am I silly for thinking it was nutrition or should I have slowed my bike down even slower? My heart rate was slightly higher than normal but got back to normal by mile 10. The flat tire helped with that!

    (Note- I did mess up with my fluid. Typically I drink Nuun but one of my water bottles was replaced with lake water or some other nasty water. (Some joke!) So I had planned on two bottles of nuun and then switching to water when I normally just use nuun. Instead I only had one bottle of nuun and then some lake water and then clean water.)

    I'm trying to figure this out. I know I can do so much better than I did and I blame my stomach. Should I be blaming me?


    Avoid the lake water next time. That's a start. The other advice given above was also helpful about the swim position as something worth trying.

    More training will only help with all of this, despite your nausea. More swimming, more biking, more running in training. It also doesn't matter if you've done the nutrition run successfully once in trial before race day - you should have done it many times, on long bikes or even bricks (you may have). If something still goes wrong then, of course, then reanalyze your intake situation.

    I do think lake water would be a no-no on race day though. That's not in the realm of typical clean nutrition on the course, and could def wreak havoc on your gut.
    2013-06-17 7:01 PM
    in reply to: isurf

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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?

    Everyone here is giving advice on nutrition, I'd just say.. keep it simple, have stuff on hand, and don't overdue. If you feel hungry, eat. I just had a bunch of Gu's on hand for the bike portion. I'd had a terrible tummyache when I woke up and couldn't eat much of a pre-race breakfast. 

    So after I took off on my bike, I ended up feeling starved. So I ate a Gu, had some water.. 20 minutes later I was hungry again, ate another, drank water.. and repeated that over most of the bike course.  

    You never know what might happen. There's all kinds of variables that occur pre-race and during the event. I'm not sure why one would think that they can know exactly what their calorie requirements will be on race day. Just have plenty of nutrition on hand for the bike portion.. and be flexible. 

    Don't race so hard that you don't take time to listen to your body. 

    During the run, there was plenty of food to eat off the course. I'm glad I replenished my salt with some of the Gatoradish type drinks. I drank and cooled off as much as I could, but I still had heat exhaustion at the end and felt pretty bad. Even though in general I do a lot of training in the heat of the day. 

    The water soaked sponges during the run portion were FANTASTIC.  

    2013-06-17 7:21 PM
    in reply to: yazmaster

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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?

    I totally missed the lake water issue...LOL.

    2013-06-17 8:07 PM
    in reply to: Daffodil

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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
    Originally posted by Daffodil

    don't underestimate the nutrition needs during a half IM. It is significantly longer than a marathon (if you have done one) and you will need more calories over the course of the race than you would need in a marathon.

    (I bonked in my first half from not realizing the nutrition requirements.)


    There have been a lot of people saying that nutrition gets the blame for lack of bike fitness a lot of the time. I agree with this 100%, but it is important for the OP to know how many calories they will need to take in during the race and practice this in training. especially since the longest workouts will likely be significantly shorter time wise than the race itself, so you would be less likely to bonk during the race.

    FWIW, in my first half, I took in around 400 calories (if that) over the first 4 hours of the race and didn't drink enough fluid on a very hot day (I'm a heavy sweater and it would have been less than 2 L of fluid). In subsequent half IMs, I have had about 800 calories by the time I get off the bike (a little over 3.5 hours)


    2013-06-17 8:11 PM
    in reply to: FELTGood

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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
    Originally posted by FELTGood

    Don't underestimate bike fitness.


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    2013-06-17 8:41 PM
    in reply to: KatieLimb

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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
    2 cents of opinion on race day nutrition planning....it's not so much one plan as it is options that work for you. If it's going to be hot and humid you know what worked well or didn't in training, if it's cold and windy you know what works or doesn't there. If all else fails, "embrace the suck" as Macca says, deal with it and move on.
    2013-06-17 9:30 PM
    in reply to: Captain Morgan

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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
    2013-06-17 10:06 PM
    in reply to: KatieLimb

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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
    I just did my first 70.3, here are some things I learnt:



    -Nutrition becomes MUCH more important. You can get into serious trouble if you don't eat enough, practice this as much as you can in training.

    -Drink as much as you can without needing to pee.

    -If the race is hot consider salt tablets, especially if you are prone to cramping.

    -Practice bottle hand offs BEFORE the race.

    -The run will hurt a deep, emotional pain.

    -Sunscreen is essential.

    -Don't fall over as soon as you cross the line, they won't let you leave the medical tent for ages.

    -Enjoy your taper week, it is essential.
    2014-03-29 5:37 AM
    in reply to: george-bob

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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?

    I've been reading these opinions with great interest, I'm in the early stages of training for my first HIM (August) and I'm soaking up any sensible advice offered. Thanks for the great thread, and if there are any more opinions, lets hear 'em!

     



    2014-03-29 7:14 AM
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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?

    Originally posted by GMAN 19030

    Originally posted by yazmaster

    2. Also - while nutrition is important, you can do yourself a disservice by reading too many forum posts about complicated HIM nutritional strategies. It's actually not hard - you should be practicing whatever you're going to do on your long bike ride (2.5-3hrs ish) regularly, and that requires minimal modification for the run. Frankly, a lot of people here and elsewhere attribute lack of training or pacing blowups to race day nutrition, when in reality, your gut isn't as fragile as it seems. If you've done it in practice week after week, race day nutrition will be no big deal at all, and you don't need some crazy complicated scientific plan for it.

    3. Your single best race day move you can do as a HIM rookie in race #1 - Underbike the bike. Not talking sandbag easy, but keep it on the easy side the whole way on the bike. You'll avoid the far more common error of overbiking, and have a great chance to finish the race strong, which will probably give you your best race result, even with the underbike.

    Points 2 and 3 are spot on.  The #1 reason why people have bad races is poor bike execution, which generally correlates to biking beyond their bike fitness.  That obvious overexertion leads to less blood flow to their digestive system which leads to stomach issues as their body can't absorb what's in their gut properly.  People will always look to blame the Perform or Gatorade or Infinit or Whatever They Ate or Drank for their cruddy run and not look at the real reason why their race fell apart.

    I agree wholeheartedly with this.

    Most of the time when nutrition is blamed the real problem was race execution relative to fitness.

    IMO, the greatest difference between long course and short course racing for the average AGer is that in long course your bike ride during the race should be the easiest long ride you've done.  Your long rides during training should be at a higher RPE/HR/% of FTP (or whatever metric you use to manage intensity) than you do on race day.  This enables you to test out nutrition better, because the higher the intensity, the more likely your digestion is to shut down.  If you're able to fuel ok during higher intensity training rides than you race at, you are less likely to have GI issues on race day.  Plus, by racing at a lower intensity than you trained at, you are also more likely to set up a good run.

    For the first time long course amateur, my advice is almost always "If at any point during the ride you question whether you're riding too hard, then you almost certainly are."

     



    Edited by TriMyBest 2014-03-29 7:14 AM
    2014-03-29 9:30 AM
    in reply to: TriMyBest

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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
    Don't over analyze this. There is a lot of good advice here, by people more experienced than me, but maybe too much. I have only done one HIM. My advice is not to overthink this. My local "guru" suggested that I just do what I did for OLY training, only more of it. I did not wear a watch or HRM. I wore sox and the same trisuit. Nutrition was primarily cliff shots in bento box on the bike. I had been running at lunch so I knew what running in the heat was. My goal was to finish the run in under 2 hours, and did 1:57 (6hr 3 min total). I was 50 years old at the time, and felt great and actually enjoyed myself! It was not a sufferfest. I finished with a big smile on my face, that took two weeks to wipe off. I am not a "real athlete" like some of you guys, but I felt like one after that. I am glad I have some photos (I bought the package).
    2014-03-29 9:34 AM
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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?

    Originally posted by TriMyBest

    Originally posted by GMAN 19030

    Originally posted by yazmaster

    2. Also - while nutrition is important, you can do yourself a disservice by reading too many forum posts about complicated HIM nutritional strategies. It's actually not hard - you should be practicing whatever you're going to do on your long bike ride (2.5-3hrs ish) regularly, and that requires minimal modification for the run. Frankly, a lot of people here and elsewhere attribute lack of training or pacing blowups to race day nutrition, when in reality, your gut isn't as fragile as it seems. If you've done it in practice week after week, race day nutrition will be no big deal at all, and you don't need some crazy complicated scientific plan for it.

    3. Your single best race day move you can do as a HIM rookie in race #1 - Underbike the bike. Not talking sandbag easy, but keep it on the easy side the whole way on the bike. You'll avoid the far more common error of overbiking, and have a great chance to finish the race strong, which will probably give you your best race result, even with the underbike.

    Points 2 and 3 are spot on.  The #1 reason why people have bad races is poor bike execution, which generally correlates to biking beyond their bike fitness.  That obvious overexertion leads to less blood flow to their digestive system which leads to stomach issues as their body can't absorb what's in their gut properly.  People will always look to blame the Perform or Gatorade or Infinit or Whatever They Ate or Drank for their cruddy run and not look at the real reason why their race fell apart.

    I agree wholeheartedly with this.

    Most of the time when nutrition is blamed the real problem was race execution relative to fitness.

    IMO, the greatest difference between long course and short course racing for the average AGer is that in long course your bike ride during the race should be the easiest long ride you've done.  Your long rides during training should be at a higher RPE/HR/% of FTP (or whatever metric you use to manage intensity) than you do on race day.  This enables you to test out nutrition better, because the higher the intensity, the more likely your digestion is to shut down.  If you're able to fuel ok during higher intensity training rides than you race at, you are less likely to have GI issues on race day.  Plus, by racing at a lower intensity than you trained at, you are also more likely to set up a good run.

    For the first time long course amateur, my advice is almost always "If at any point during the ride you question whether you're riding too hard, then you almost certainly are."

     

    Read this post over and over again..... Yaz, Gman. and Don are right on the money.   All you need to know is right here.



    Edited by Left Brain 2014-03-29 9:35 AM
    2014-03-29 9:47 AM
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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
    i second the comments about sunscreen and heat. if you follow your training plan and pactice nutrition on your long bikes everything else will be fine...
    2014-03-29 9:58 AM
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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
    Good thread....

    1. Keep your nutrition plan simple - totally agree on this.

    2. Depending on the temp, humidity and how much you sweat, take 1-2 salt tabs (or some other electrolyte supplement) per hour on the bike and run. If you don't have enough electrolytes in your system, you will have a very long day and might need a visit to medical. If your body doesn't need the electrolytes, you'll just them out. This was a huge lesson for me from my first HIM. It was very clear that I needed more electrolytes (fwiw, the temps for my first HIM was in the low 90s)...and I now take salt tabs for all my races and long distance training days just to be safe.

    3. It's ok to walk on the run leg. 13.1 miles is a long run, and you will probably walk some portion of it - and that's totally cool. Most folks do. Try to have a plan, like run/jog between aid stations, walk when you're taking in nutrition, and then run/jog to the next aid station. Some folks will have a set run-walk plan, like 5 mins run, 1 min walk. How even you plan your run leg, it's ok to walk.

    4. Watermelon is awesome for post-race refueling.

    5. Your first HIM will probably throw you some curveballs, so be cognizant that not everything on race day will go according to your plan. You will likely have to change things on the fly . Just trust your training, do your best, enjoy the commaraderie of your fellow racers, and realize that the folks around you are probably experiencing the same issues you are. So, if you're struggling up some hill, the person next to you is probably too. Give encouragement to your fellow racers when they need it, and they will help you when you need it.

    6. 100% agree with what prior posters have said about the bike leg. Don't overdo the bike leg!

    Good luck and enjoy!



    Edited by LarchmontTri 2014-03-29 10:00 AM


    2014-03-29 10:38 AM
    in reply to: yazmaster

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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
    Went from 5:01 to 4:40 this way. The extra 5 min on the bike turned into a much faster run.
    2014-03-29 10:13 PM
    in reply to: simpsonbo

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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
    I will be going from Oly to HIM next summer. This is a great thread. I also really like this quote from the other thread: "If you go to easy on the bike, you have thirteen miles to make up for it. If you go to hard on the bike, you have thirteen miles to pay for it." I am going to have to remember this one.
    2014-03-30 8:17 AM
    in reply to: keqwow

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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
    Originally posted by keqwow

    I will be going from Oly to HIM next summer. This is a great thread. I also really like this quote from the other thread: "If you go to easy on the bike, you have thirteen miles to make up for it. If you go to hard on the bike, you have thirteen miles to pay for it." I am going to have to remember this one.


    Wise man!!

    A lot of the thread is about pacing the bike and run. I agree with it, it's the key to a successful HIM.
    You can pace by RPE, Power/Pace or HR

    Most beginners do not have the experience to go by RPE.
    Power is the best, but pricey and if not used properly can do as much bad as good.

    HR is inexpensive and pretty reliable for HIM distance racing. People should learn to use it, and dial it in early and do lots and lots of race pace rehearsal (with nutrition)

    2014-03-30 8:49 AM
    in reply to: keqwow

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    Subject: RE: What did you wish you knew before jumping to 70.3?
    Last year was my first season and my last race was a HIM. The race was on a Sunday and I worked on a Monday. I did really well and had no problems during the race at all. But, I was actually surprised how lousy I felt the day after my race. I wish I had taken the Monday off from work. I will be doing that this year.
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