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 2013-12-16 8:17 AM in reply to: 0 |
 286   , |  Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control.Originally posted by mehaner I agree, it's an idea not without its flaws...I realize that. I'm just tossing out potential ideas. As it stands, doing nothing...isn't the answer either. Reacting by imposing stricter gun laws, that won't do anything. If someone (a teenager, adult, etc) wishes to hurt others, he/she will find a way to find an accessible weapon to do so. So...to me, it's not about gun control...it's about how to become more proactive to helping troubled kids before they go down a violent path. How to do that, not quite sure. :/Originally posted by SGirl Yes, exactly.  Agreed. Not an easy or quick fix by any means, but if as a community ...people start reporting 'odd' behaviors at the first signs of them with respect to troubled youth behaviors, then we might see a change. It's not a guarantee, but it's a start in the right direction. It's important to educate students for example, when it comes to facebook, as that is where a lot of troubled kids 'air' their problems. So, students should be mindful to report behaviors they deem as out of the norm, and adults can then take it from there. I know this takes courage, and might seem intrusive at first, but quite a few of these shooting stories have as a common theme...a troubled youth, who many around him thought was troubled, 'different,' 'strange,' depressed, a loner...etc....etc...but, no one took it further than that. Healthy minded, well adjusted teenagers don't shoot people and then commit suicide. Something far deeper was going on here, and the incident at the school, was what pushed him over the edge. Increasing gun control or not...this incident most likely would still have happened...and will likely happen again and again, until we start getting to the heart of what ails these kids. Just my $.02 dealing with depression is hard enough for a teenager to deal with, now let's add being labeled a potential psychopath. i dunno, there are lots of weird lonely kids out there that wouldn't hurt a soul. i agree that mental illness is the root cause, but you can't just lock up every person you think is odd. and giving teenagers the right to report that? a whole new weapon in a bullying arsenal. Edited by SGirl 2013-12-16 8:18 AM |
| 2013-12-16 8:42 AM in reply to: tuwood |
Champion 6503   NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Maybe the answer is in reaching out to people who are hurting, lonely and struggling. Not just our "fun friends". Not casting stones as I live in a glass house. I could do better. |
| 2013-12-16 9:07 AM in reply to: mehaner |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by SGirl Yes, exactly. Agreed. Not an easy or quick fix by any means, but if as a community ...people start reporting 'odd' behaviors at the first signs of them with respect to troubled youth behaviors, then we might see a change. It's not a guarantee, but it's a start in the right direction. It's important to educate students for example, when it comes to facebook, as that is where a lot of troubled kids 'air' their problems. So, students should be mindful to report behaviors they deem as out of the norm, and adults can then take it from there. I know this takes courage, and might seem intrusive at first, but quite a few of these shooting stories have as a common theme...a troubled youth, who many around him thought was troubled, 'different,' 'strange,' depressed, a loner...etc....etc...but, no one took it further than that. Healthy minded, well adjusted teenagers don't shoot people and then commit suicide. Something far deeper was going on here, and the incident at the school, was what pushed him over the edge. Increasing gun control or not...this incident most likely would still have happened...and will likely happen again and again, until we start getting to the heart of what ails these kids. Just my $.02 dealing with depression is hard enough for a teenager to deal with, now let's add being labeled a potential psychopath. i dunno, there are lots of weird lonely kids out there that wouldn't hurt a soul. i agree that mental illness is the root cause, but you can't just lock up every person you think is odd. and giving teenagers the right to report that? a whole new weapon in a bullying arsenal. I think this actually describes almost all kids with problems, and your points are absolutely where the problem is in trying to identify a kid that will become unhinged.......it seems almost impossible to me. |
| 2013-12-16 9:13 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
| 286 , | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by Left Brain Yep, it's definitely hard to identify. Going with pga mike's thoughts...there are a number of community programs, that perhaps if more kids were aware of them, or made accessible to them...that could be potentially helpful too. Big Brother/Big Sister programs, etc... Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by SGirl Yes, exactly. Agreed. Not an easy or quick fix by any means, but if as a community ...people start reporting 'odd' behaviors at the first signs of them with respect to troubled youth behaviors, then we might see a change. It's not a guarantee, but it's a start in the right direction. It's important to educate students for example, when it comes to facebook, as that is where a lot of troubled kids 'air' their problems. So, students should be mindful to report behaviors they deem as out of the norm, and adults can then take it from there. I know this takes courage, and might seem intrusive at first, but quite a few of these shooting stories have as a common theme...a troubled youth, who many around him thought was troubled, 'different,' 'strange,' depressed, a loner...etc....etc...but, no one took it further than that. Healthy minded, well adjusted teenagers don't shoot people and then commit suicide. Something far deeper was going on here, and the incident at the school, was what pushed him over the edge. Increasing gun control or not...this incident most likely would still have happened...and will likely happen again and again, until we start getting to the heart of what ails these kids. Just my $.02 dealing with depression is hard enough for a teenager to deal with, now let's add being labeled a potential psychopath. i dunno, there are lots of weird lonely kids out there that wouldn't hurt a soul. i agree that mental illness is the root cause, but you can't just lock up every person you think is odd. and giving teenagers the right to report that? a whole new weapon in a bullying arsenal. I think this actually describes almost all kids with problems, and your points are absolutely where the problem is in trying to identify a kid that will become unhinged.......it seems almost impossible to me. I think that many kids feel isolated when dealing with depression, stress, problems at home, etc...and outside programs coming to the schools...to make them aware of what's available to them, would be good in terms of outreach. It will take a lot of effort to help change things as they are... |
| 2013-12-16 9:17 AM in reply to: SGirl |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by SGirl Originally posted by Left Brain Yep, it's definitely hard to identify. Going with pga mike's thoughts...there are a number of community programs, that perhaps if more kids were aware of them, or made accessible to them...that could be potentially helpful too. Big Brother/Big Sister programs, etc... I think that many kids feel isolated when dealing with depression, stress, problems at home, etc...and outside programs coming to the schools...to make them aware of what's available to them, would be good in terms of outreach. It will take a lot of effort to help change things as they are... Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by SGirl Yes, exactly. Agreed. Not an easy or quick fix by any means, but if as a community ...people start reporting 'odd' behaviors at the first signs of them with respect to troubled youth behaviors, then we might see a change. It's not a guarantee, but it's a start in the right direction. It's important to educate students for example, when it comes to facebook, as that is where a lot of troubled kids 'air' their problems. So, students should be mindful to report behaviors they deem as out of the norm, and adults can then take it from there. I know this takes courage, and might seem intrusive at first, but quite a few of these shooting stories have as a common theme...a troubled youth, who many around him thought was troubled, 'different,' 'strange,' depressed, a loner...etc....etc...but, no one took it further than that. Healthy minded, well adjusted teenagers don't shoot people and then commit suicide. Something far deeper was going on here, and the incident at the school, was what pushed him over the edge. Increasing gun control or not...this incident most likely would still have happened...and will likely happen again and again, until we start getting to the heart of what ails these kids. Just my $.02 dealing with depression is hard enough for a teenager to deal with, now let's add being labeled a potential psychopath. i dunno, there are lots of weird lonely kids out there that wouldn't hurt a soul. i agree that mental illness is the root cause, but you can't just lock up every person you think is odd. and giving teenagers the right to report that? a whole new weapon in a bullying arsenal. I think this actually describes almost all kids with problems, and your points are absolutely where the problem is in trying to identify a kid that will become unhinged.......it seems almost impossible to me. The only thing that really stands out to me is that we probably have to teach kids how to watch out for each other, and recognize kids that are in trouble.....they know. That being said, I don't have a clue how you do that. |
| 2013-12-16 9:24 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
| 286 , | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by Left Brain An example of how change takes time...A number of school systems in the US, have adopted ‘no bullying’ policies, etc. Not to say that those schools have zero bullying, but there is a zero TOLERANCE for it. So, if it’s noticed, there are stern consequences for the bullies. (and perhaps their parents if the child being abused/harassed, decides to sue the bullies’ parents) These types of lawsuits are becoming more prevalent. There was a recent case in the news whereby two girls mercilessly bullied their classmate, and the girl being bullied, committed suicide. Some kids act out against others, when they have reached their limit …when it comes to bullying. It’s so very sad that no one intervened along the way before tragedies like these strike. I bring this up, because zero tolerance for violence, bullying, harassment, should be something that kids support with one another. It shouldn’t be the school system vs the students, rather the students, parents and the school systems work together, to create safer, healthier learning environments. Takes a collective effort. It won’t be without its challenges, but something needs to be done. ?Originally posted by SGirl Originally posted by Left Brain Yep, it's definitely hard to identify. Going with pga mike's thoughts...there are a number of community programs, that perhaps if more kids were aware of them, or made accessible to them...that could be potentially helpful too. Big Brother/Big Sister programs, etc... I think that many kids feel isolated when dealing with depression, stress, problems at home, etc...and outside programs coming to the schools...to make them aware of what's available to them, would be good in terms of outreach. It will take a lot of effort to help change things as they are... Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by SGirl Yes, exactly. Agreed. Not an easy or quick fix by any means, but if as a community ...people start reporting 'odd' behaviors at the first signs of them with respect to troubled youth behaviors, then we might see a change. It's not a guarantee, but it's a start in the right direction. It's important to educate students for example, when it comes to facebook, as that is where a lot of troubled kids 'air' their problems. So, students should be mindful to report behaviors they deem as out of the norm, and adults can then take it from there. I know this takes courage, and might seem intrusive at first, but quite a few of these shooting stories have as a common theme...a troubled youth, who many around him thought was troubled, 'different,' 'strange,' depressed, a loner...etc....etc...but, no one took it further than that. Healthy minded, well adjusted teenagers don't shoot people and then commit suicide. Something far deeper was going on here, and the incident at the school, was what pushed him over the edge. Increasing gun control or not...this incident most likely would still have happened...and will likely happen again and again, until we start getting to the heart of what ails these kids. Just my $.02 dealing with depression is hard enough for a teenager to deal with, now let's add being labeled a potential psychopath. i dunno, there are lots of weird lonely kids out there that wouldn't hurt a soul. i agree that mental illness is the root cause, but you can't just lock up every person you think is odd. and giving teenagers the right to report that? a whole new weapon in a bullying arsenal. I think this actually describes almost all kids with problems, and your points are absolutely where the problem is in trying to identify a kid that will become unhinged.......it seems almost impossible to me. The only thing that really stands out to me is that we probably have to teach kids how to watch out for each other, and recognize kids that are in trouble.....they know. That being said, I don't have a clue how you do that. |
| 2013-12-16 9:33 AM in reply to: 0 |
Member 465 | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by SGirl Great points, yes, true. It definitely isn't an easy nor quick fix. There are no fixes really, it's an ongoing battle if you will...to keep schools, neighborhoods, and workplaces safe from those who 'snap.' I'm reminded of a guy in PA, who went on a shooting spree in an LA Fitness I think? He shot a few women, then killed himself. ''After the fact,'' people who knew him/worked with him...all said how odd he was, never had a girlfriend, or wife, etc...seemed like a loner. But, that of course isn't enough to suspect someone of going balistic and shooting up a gym. So, yeah. It's hard, indeed. But, I think it is something that over time, could be trickled into the school system... Slow and steady wins the race, so to speak. There is one important fact in this school shooting that prevented it from being the mass carnage it could have been. That fact is that the shooter was not the only one with a gun in that school that day. There was an armed resource officer who cornered the shooter within a couple of minutes of entering the school causing the shooter to give up and take his own life. Yes the violence that did happen was absolutely tragic and unspeakable but there is something wrong with the mindset that gathering our children and then announce to every psychopath with gun free signs that they are defenseless is a good idea. How many more of these do we have to have before we defend our schools? Edited by Jackemy1 2013-12-16 9:34 AM |
| 2013-12-16 9:46 AM in reply to: SGirl |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by SGirl Originally posted by Left Brain An example of how change takes time...A number of school systems in the US, have adopted ‘no bullying’ policies, etc. Not to say that those schools have zero bullying, but there is a zero TOLERANCE for it. So, if it’s noticed, there are stern consequences for the bullies. (and perhaps their parents if the child being abused/harassed, decides to sue the bullies’ parents) These types of lawsuits are becoming more prevalent. There was a recent case in the news whereby two girls mercilessly bullied their classmate, and the girl being bullied, committed suicide. Some kids act out against others, when they have reached their limit …when it comes to bullying. It’s so very sad that no one intervened along the way before tragedies like these strike. I bring this up, because zero tolerance for violence, bullying, harassment, should be something that kids support with one another. It shouldn’t be the school system vs the students, rather the students, parents and the school systems work together, to create safer, healthier learning environments. Takes a collective effort. It won’t be without its challenges, but something needs to be done. ? Originally posted by SGirl Originally posted by Left Brain Yep, it's definitely hard to identify. Going with pga mike's thoughts...there are a number of community programs, that perhaps if more kids were aware of them, or made accessible to them...that could be potentially helpful too. Big Brother/Big Sister programs, etc... I think that many kids feel isolated when dealing with depression, stress, problems at home, etc...and outside programs coming to the schools...to make them aware of what's available to them, would be good in terms of outreach. It will take a lot of effort to help change things as they are... Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by SGirl Yes, exactly. Agreed. Not an easy or quick fix by any means, but if as a community ...people start reporting 'odd' behaviors at the first signs of them with respect to troubled youth behaviors, then we might see a change. It's not a guarantee, but it's a start in the right direction. It's important to educate students for example, when it comes to facebook, as that is where a lot of troubled kids 'air' their problems. So, students should be mindful to report behaviors they deem as out of the norm, and adults can then take it from there. I know this takes courage, and might seem intrusive at first, but quite a few of these shooting stories have as a common theme...a troubled youth, who many around him thought was troubled, 'different,' 'strange,' depressed, a loner...etc....etc...but, no one took it further than that. Healthy minded, well adjusted teenagers don't shoot people and then commit suicide. Something far deeper was going on here, and the incident at the school, was what pushed him over the edge. Increasing gun control or not...this incident most likely would still have happened...and will likely happen again and again, until we start getting to the heart of what ails these kids. Just my $.02 dealing with depression is hard enough for a teenager to deal with, now let's add being labeled a potential psychopath. i dunno, there are lots of weird lonely kids out there that wouldn't hurt a soul. i agree that mental illness is the root cause, but you can't just lock up every person you think is odd. and giving teenagers the right to report that? a whole new weapon in a bullying arsenal. I think this actually describes almost all kids with problems, and your points are absolutely where the problem is in trying to identify a kid that will become unhinged.......it seems almost impossible to me. The only thing that really stands out to me is that we probably have to teach kids how to watch out for each other, and recognize kids that are in trouble.....they know. That being said, I don't have a clue how you do that. So, this got me to thinking. I was bullied pretty hard as a kid, and even got beat up a few times. Nobody seemed to care that I was being bullied at all, so I signed up for martial arts and started lifting weights and guess what. When I was in middle school I got bullied again and I dam near punched the kids eye through the back of his head. He had permanent damage in one of his eyes I hit him so hard. My bullying stopped, and I never had another issue again. I'm not saying schools should let kids be bullied or that kids should fight each other, but I am curious to the effects of not allowing it as well. I remember plenty of bullied kids who took it out behind the schoolyard after school. Some won and some lost, but in almost every case the kid being bullied was respected afterwards because he didn't just wilt and run away. If we simply put in place zero tolerance rules are we merely trying to put a band-aid on the symptom of a much greater/deeper problem? I'm not really throwing out any solutions here, I'm just pondering what has changed. If we don't get to the root of the problem, then we solve nothing. |
| 2013-12-16 9:56 AM in reply to: jeffnboise |
| 286 , | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. It will take a combination of ideas (actions) and programs to better ensure the safety of our schools. I think that faculty should have a ‘right’ to defend its schools, no doubt--but we need more than reactive measures in place. |
| 2013-12-16 9:57 AM in reply to: 0 |
| 286 , | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by tuwood I think technology has played a huge role in bullies 'upping' their game. But, I remember bullying too. I was bullied. Looking back it pales in comparison to today's bullies. Bullies seem meaner...crueler...self loathing. Bullies usually don't like themselves, so they bully others to feel superior. The question is...why is that? Why are many kids so depressed, angry and vengeful these days? Originally posted by SGirl Originally posted by Left Brain An example of how change takes time...A number of school systems in the US, have adopted ‘no bullying’ policies, etc. Not to say that those schools have zero bullying, but there is a zero TOLERANCE for it. So, if it’s noticed, there are stern consequences for the bullies. (and perhaps their parents if the child being abused/harassed, decides to sue the bullies’ parents) These types of lawsuits are becoming more prevalent. There was a recent case in the news whereby two girls mercilessly bullied their classmate, and the girl being bullied, committed suicide. Some kids act out against others, when they have reached their limit …when it comes to bullying. It’s so very sad that no one intervened along the way before tragedies like these strike. I bring this up, because zero tolerance for violence, bullying, harassment, should be something that kids support with one another. It shouldn’t be the school system vs the students, rather the students, parents and the school systems work together, to create safer, healthier learning environments. Takes a collective effort. It won’t be without its challenges, but something needs to be done. ? Originally posted by SGirl Originally posted by Left Brain Yep, it's definitely hard to identify. Going with pga mike's thoughts...there are a number of community programs, that perhaps if more kids were aware of them, or made accessible to them...that could be potentially helpful too. Big Brother/Big Sister programs, etc... I think that many kids feel isolated when dealing with depression, stress, problems at home, etc...and outside programs coming to the schools...to make them aware of what's available to them, would be good in terms of outreach. It will take a lot of effort to help change things as they are... Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by SGirl Yes, exactly. Agreed. Not an easy or quick fix by any means, but if as a community ...people start reporting 'odd' behaviors at the first signs of them with respect to troubled youth behaviors, then we might see a change. It's not a guarantee, but it's a start in the right direction. It's important to educate students for example, when it comes to facebook, as that is where a lot of troubled kids 'air' their problems. So, students should be mindful to report behaviors they deem as out of the norm, and adults can then take it from there. I know this takes courage, and might seem intrusive at first, but quite a few of these shooting stories have as a common theme...a troubled youth, who many around him thought was troubled, 'different,' 'strange,' depressed, a loner...etc....etc...but, no one took it further than that. Healthy minded, well adjusted teenagers don't shoot people and then commit suicide. Something far deeper was going on here, and the incident at the school, was what pushed him over the edge. Increasing gun control or not...this incident most likely would still have happened...and will likely happen again and again, until we start getting to the heart of what ails these kids. Just my $.02 dealing with depression is hard enough for a teenager to deal with, now let's add being labeled a potential psychopath. i dunno, there are lots of weird lonely kids out there that wouldn't hurt a soul. i agree that mental illness is the root cause, but you can't just lock up every person you think is odd. and giving teenagers the right to report that? a whole new weapon in a bullying arsenal. I think this actually describes almost all kids with problems, and your points are absolutely where the problem is in trying to identify a kid that will become unhinged.......it seems almost impossible to me. The only thing that really stands out to me is that we probably have to teach kids how to watch out for each other, and recognize kids that are in trouble.....they know. That being said, I don't have a clue how you do that. So, this got me to thinking. I was bullied pretty hard as a kid, and even got beat up a few times. Nobody seemed to care that I was being bullied at all, so I signed up for martial arts and started lifting weights and guess what. When I was in middle school I got bullied again and I dam near punched the kids eye through the back of his head. He had permanent damage in one of his eyes I hit him so hard. My bullying stopped, and I never had another issue again. I'm not saying schools should let kids be bullied or that kids should fight each other, but I am curious to the effects of not allowing it as well. I remember plenty of bullied kids who took it out behind the schoolyard after school. Some won and some lost, but in almost every case the kid being bullied was respected afterwards because he didn't just wilt and run away. If we simply put in place zero tolerance rules are we merely trying to put a band-aid on the symptom of a much greater/deeper problem? I'm not really throwing out any solutions here, I'm just pondering what has changed. If we don't get to the root of the problem, then we solve nothing. Edited by SGirl 2013-12-16 9:58 AM |
| 2013-12-16 9:57 AM in reply to: SGirl |
Master 2946 Centennial, CO | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by SGirl Originally posted by mehaner I agree, it's an idea not without its flaws...I realize that. I'm just tossing out potential ideas. As it stands, doing nothing...isn't the answer either. Reacting by imposing stricter gun laws, that won't do anything. If someone (a teenager, adult, etc) wishes to hurt others, he/she will find a way to find an accessible weapon to do so. So...to me, it's not about gun control...it's about how to become more proactive to helping troubled kids before they go down a violent path. How to do that, not quite sure. :/ Originally posted by SGirl Yes, exactly. Agreed. Not an easy or quick fix by any means, but if as a community ...people start reporting 'odd' behaviors at the first signs of them with respect to troubled youth behaviors, then we might see a change. It's not a guarantee, but it's a start in the right direction. It's important to educate students for example, when it comes to facebook, as that is where a lot of troubled kids 'air' their problems. So, students should be mindful to report behaviors they deem as out of the norm, and adults can then take it from there. I know this takes courage, and might seem intrusive at first, but quite a few of these shooting stories have as a common theme...a troubled youth, who many around him thought was troubled, 'different,' 'strange,' depressed, a loner...etc....etc...but, no one took it further than that. Healthy minded, well adjusted teenagers don't shoot people and then commit suicide. Something far deeper was going on here, and the incident at the school, was what pushed him over the edge. Increasing gun control or not...this incident most likely would still have happened...and will likely happen again and again, until we start getting to the heart of what ails these kids. Just my $.02 dealing with depression is hard enough for a teenager to deal with, now let's add being labeled a potential psychopath. i dunno, there are lots of weird lonely kids out there that wouldn't hurt a soul. i agree that mental illness is the root cause, but you can't just lock up every person you think is odd. and giving teenagers the right to report that? a whole new weapon in a bullying arsenal.
Another thing to Think about is who is responsible for what ever the solution is. While working out this morning I was talking to my daughters ex-teacher (last year) whose husband happens to be a coach and student counsler at Arapahoe HS. Her concern is that they keep adding to what the teacher are responsible for in terms of identifying these types of children, but they do not provide any support in getting the families to follow through. Families understandably do not want their child labeled so they do nothing. And then the teacher is labelled the problem if they try to control that child. I believe it is not the role of the schools to discipline or raise our children. But many parents and the rest of society don't seem to want that role either.
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| 2013-12-16 10:04 AM in reply to: tuwood |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by SGirl Originally posted by Left Brain An example of how change takes time...A number of school systems in the US, have adopted ‘no bullying’ policies, etc. Not to say that those schools have zero bullying, but there is a zero TOLERANCE for it. So, if it’s noticed, there are stern consequences for the bullies. (and perhaps their parents if the child being abused/harassed, decides to sue the bullies’ parents) These types of lawsuits are becoming more prevalent. There was a recent case in the news whereby two girls mercilessly bullied their classmate, and the girl being bullied, committed suicide. Some kids act out against others, when they have reached their limit …when it comes to bullying. It’s so very sad that no one intervened along the way before tragedies like these strike. I bring this up, because zero tolerance for violence, bullying, harassment, should be something that kids support with one another. It shouldn’t be the school system vs the students, rather the students, parents and the school systems work together, to create safer, healthier learning environments. Takes a collective effort. It won’t be without its challenges, but something needs to be done. ? Originally posted by SGirl Originally posted by Left Brain Yep, it's definitely hard to identify. Going with pga mike's thoughts...there are a number of community programs, that perhaps if more kids were aware of them, or made accessible to them...that could be potentially helpful too. Big Brother/Big Sister programs, etc... I think that many kids feel isolated when dealing with depression, stress, problems at home, etc...and outside programs coming to the schools...to make them aware of what's available to them, would be good in terms of outreach. It will take a lot of effort to help change things as they are... Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by SGirl Yes, exactly. Agreed. Not an easy or quick fix by any means, but if as a community ...people start reporting 'odd' behaviors at the first signs of them with respect to troubled youth behaviors, then we might see a change. It's not a guarantee, but it's a start in the right direction. It's important to educate students for example, when it comes to facebook, as that is where a lot of troubled kids 'air' their problems. So, students should be mindful to report behaviors they deem as out of the norm, and adults can then take it from there. I know this takes courage, and might seem intrusive at first, but quite a few of these shooting stories have as a common theme...a troubled youth, who many around him thought was troubled, 'different,' 'strange,' depressed, a loner...etc....etc...but, no one took it further than that. Healthy minded, well adjusted teenagers don't shoot people and then commit suicide. Something far deeper was going on here, and the incident at the school, was what pushed him over the edge. Increasing gun control or not...this incident most likely would still have happened...and will likely happen again and again, until we start getting to the heart of what ails these kids. Just my $.02 dealing with depression is hard enough for a teenager to deal with, now let's add being labeled a potential psychopath. i dunno, there are lots of weird lonely kids out there that wouldn't hurt a soul. i agree that mental illness is the root cause, but you can't just lock up every person you think is odd. and giving teenagers the right to report that? a whole new weapon in a bullying arsenal. I think this actually describes almost all kids with problems, and your points are absolutely where the problem is in trying to identify a kid that will become unhinged.......it seems almost impossible to me. The only thing that really stands out to me is that we probably have to teach kids how to watch out for each other, and recognize kids that are in trouble.....they know. That being said, I don't have a clue how you do that. So, this got me to thinking. I was bullied pretty hard as a kid, and even got beat up a few times. Nobody seemed to care that I was being bullied at all, so I signed up for martial arts and started lifting weights and guess what. When I was in middle school I got bullied again and I dam near punched the kids eye through the back of his head. He had permanent damage in one of his eyes I hit him so hard. My bullying stopped, and I never had another issue again. I'm not saying schools should let kids be bullied or that kids should fight each other, but I am curious to the effects of not allowing it as well. I remember plenty of bullied kids who took it out behind the schoolyard after school. Some won and some lost, but in almost every case the kid being bullied was respected afterwards because he didn't just wilt and run away. If we simply put in place zero tolerance rules are we merely trying to put a band-aid on the symptom of a much greater/deeper problem? I'm not really throwing out any solutions here, I'm just pondering what has changed. If we don't get to the root of the problem, then we solve nothing. My son's elementary school has what I think is an interesting approach to this-- they select kids from a pool of 4th and 5th graders who apply to be "peer mediators". The kids have to interview for the position and they go through a pretty lengthy training/education program. Kids who are in disputes or who are being hassled by other kids are encouraged to seek out peer mediators to resolve their issues rather than go straight to the teachers. The mediators have to report the conflicts and the resolutions to the teacher who runs the program, so there is some faculty supervision, but it really encourages kids to work it out on their own with the support of their peers rather than immediately get the adults to intervene. It's a new program, but I'm curious to see what happens with it. I'm all for defending our schools. I have no issue whatsover with placing armed security in schools. What I'm not in favor of is allowing teachers to carry guns unless they are required to take a very strict, very rigorous tactical traning course and be regularly (1/year at least) re-certified to use their weapon in a tactical situation. A gun in the hands of a poorly trained, panicked person has as much chance of making thing worse as it does of making things better. |
| 2013-12-16 10:06 AM in reply to: velocomp |
| 286 , | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by velocomp Bingo! Yep. AGREE! It is not the school's responsibility to raise our kids. SO TRUE. But...collectively, there has to be an effort with parents, students and schools to make sure people are safe when they are at school. It's incredibly sad that teachers and students need to worry over being safe during their time on school campuses. Originally posted by SGirl Originally posted by mehaner I agree, it's an idea not without its flaws...I realize that. I'm just tossing out potential ideas. As it stands, doing nothing...isn't the answer either. Reacting by imposing stricter gun laws, that won't do anything. If someone (a teenager, adult, etc) wishes to hurt others, he/she will find a way to find an accessible weapon to do so. So...to me, it's not about gun control...it's about how to become more proactive to helping troubled kids before they go down a violent path. How to do that, not quite sure. :/ Originally posted by SGirl Yes, exactly. Agreed. Not an easy or quick fix by any means, but if as a community ...people start reporting 'odd' behaviors at the first signs of them with respect to troubled youth behaviors, then we might see a change. It's not a guarantee, but it's a start in the right direction. It's important to educate students for example, when it comes to facebook, as that is where a lot of troubled kids 'air' their problems. So, students should be mindful to report behaviors they deem as out of the norm, and adults can then take it from there. I know this takes courage, and might seem intrusive at first, but quite a few of these shooting stories have as a common theme...a troubled youth, who many around him thought was troubled, 'different,' 'strange,' depressed, a loner...etc....etc...but, no one took it further than that. Healthy minded, well adjusted teenagers don't shoot people and then commit suicide. Something far deeper was going on here, and the incident at the school, was what pushed him over the edge. Increasing gun control or not...this incident most likely would still have happened...and will likely happen again and again, until we start getting to the heart of what ails these kids. Just my $.02 dealing with depression is hard enough for a teenager to deal with, now let's add being labeled a potential psychopath. i dunno, there are lots of weird lonely kids out there that wouldn't hurt a soul. i agree that mental illness is the root cause, but you can't just lock up every person you think is odd. and giving teenagers the right to report that? a whole new weapon in a bullying arsenal.
Another thing to Think about is who is responsible for what ever the solution is. While working out this morning I was talking to my daughters ex-teacher (last year) whose husband happens to be a coach and student counsler at Arapahoe HS. Her concern is that they keep adding to what the teacher are responsible for in terms of identifying these types of children, but they do not provide any support in getting the families to follow through. Families understandably do not want their child labeled so they do nothing. And then the teacher is labelled the problem if they try to control that child. I believe it is not the role of the schools to discipline or raise our children. But many parents and the rest of society don't seem to want that role either.
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| 2013-12-16 10:17 AM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by tuwood My son's elementary school has what I think is an interesting approach to this-- they select kids from a pool of 4th and 5th graders who apply to be "peer mediators". The kids have to interview for the position and they go through a pretty lengthy training/education program. Kids who are in disputes or who are being hassled by other kids are encouraged to seek out peer mediators to resolve their issues rather than go straight to the teachers. The mediators have to report the conflicts and the resolutions to the teacher who runs the program, so there is some faculty supervision, but it really encourages kids to work it out on their own with the support of their peers rather than immediately get the adults to intervene. It's a new program, but I'm curious to see what happens with it. I'm all for defending our schools. I have no issue whatsover with placing armed security in schools. What I'm not in favor of is allowing teachers to carry guns unless they are required to take a very strict, very rigorous tactical traning course and be regularly (1/year at least) re-certified to use their weapon in a tactical situation. A gun in the hands of a poorly trained, panicked person has as much chance of making thing worse as it does of making things better. Originally posted by SGirl Originally posted by Left Brain An example of how change takes time...A number of school systems in the US, have adopted ‘no bullying’ policies, etc. Not to say that those schools have zero bullying, but there is a zero TOLERANCE for it. So, if it’s noticed, there are stern consequences for the bullies. (and perhaps their parents if the child being abused/harassed, decides to sue the bullies’ parents) These types of lawsuits are becoming more prevalent. There was a recent case in the news whereby two girls mercilessly bullied their classmate, and the girl being bullied, committed suicide. Some kids act out against others, when they have reached their limit …when it comes to bullying. It’s so very sad that no one intervened along the way before tragedies like these strike. I bring this up, because zero tolerance for violence, bullying, harassment, should be something that kids support with one another. It shouldn’t be the school system vs the students, rather the students, parents and the school systems work together, to create safer, healthier learning environments. Takes a collective effort. It won’t be without its challenges, but something needs to be done. ? Originally posted by SGirl Originally posted by Left Brain Yep, it's definitely hard to identify. Going with pga mike's thoughts...there are a number of community programs, that perhaps if more kids were aware of them, or made accessible to them...that could be potentially helpful too. Big Brother/Big Sister programs, etc... I think that many kids feel isolated when dealing with depression, stress, problems at home, etc...and outside programs coming to the schools...to make them aware of what's available to them, would be good in terms of outreach. It will take a lot of effort to help change things as they are... Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by SGirl Yes, exactly. Agreed. Not an easy or quick fix by any means, but if as a community ...people start reporting 'odd' behaviors at the first signs of them with respect to troubled youth behaviors, then we might see a change. It's not a guarantee, but it's a start in the right direction. It's important to educate students for example, when it comes to facebook, as that is where a lot of troubled kids 'air' their problems. So, students should be mindful to report behaviors they deem as out of the norm, and adults can then take it from there. I know this takes courage, and might seem intrusive at first, but quite a few of these shooting stories have as a common theme...a troubled youth, who many around him thought was troubled, 'different,' 'strange,' depressed, a loner...etc....etc...but, no one took it further than that. Healthy minded, well adjusted teenagers don't shoot people and then commit suicide. Something far deeper was going on here, and the incident at the school, was what pushed him over the edge. Increasing gun control or not...this incident most likely would still have happened...and will likely happen again and again, until we start getting to the heart of what ails these kids. Just my $.02 dealing with depression is hard enough for a teenager to deal with, now let's add being labeled a potential psychopath. i dunno, there are lots of weird lonely kids out there that wouldn't hurt a soul. i agree that mental illness is the root cause, but you can't just lock up every person you think is odd. and giving teenagers the right to report that? a whole new weapon in a bullying arsenal. I think this actually describes almost all kids with problems, and your points are absolutely where the problem is in trying to identify a kid that will become unhinged.......it seems almost impossible to me. The only thing that really stands out to me is that we probably have to teach kids how to watch out for each other, and recognize kids that are in trouble.....they know. That being said, I don't have a clue how you do that. So, this got me to thinking. I was bullied pretty hard as a kid, and even got beat up a few times. Nobody seemed to care that I was being bullied at all, so I signed up for martial arts and started lifting weights and guess what. When I was in middle school I got bullied again and I dam near punched the kids eye through the back of his head. He had permanent damage in one of his eyes I hit him so hard. My bullying stopped, and I never had another issue again. I'm not saying schools should let kids be bullied or that kids should fight each other, but I am curious to the effects of not allowing it as well. I remember plenty of bullied kids who took it out behind the schoolyard after school. Some won and some lost, but in almost every case the kid being bullied was respected afterwards because he didn't just wilt and run away. If we simply put in place zero tolerance rules are we merely trying to put a band-aid on the symptom of a much greater/deeper problem? I'm not really throwing out any solutions here, I'm just pondering what has changed. If we don't get to the root of the problem, then we solve nothing. That does sound like an interesting approach and I'm curious how it will work as well. I also think your structure around qualifications for arming teachers is reasonable as well. |
| 2013-12-16 10:22 AM in reply to: Jackemy1 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by SGirl Great points, yes, true. It definitely isn't an easy nor quick fix. There are no fixes really, it's an ongoing battle if you will...to keep schools, neighborhoods, and workplaces safe from those who 'snap.' I'm reminded of a guy in PA, who went on a shooting spree in an LA Fitness I think? He shot a few women, then killed himself. ''After the fact,'' people who knew him/worked with him...all said how odd he was, never had a girlfriend, or wife, etc...seemed like a loner. But, that of course isn't enough to suspect someone of going balistic and shooting up a gym. So, yeah. It's hard, indeed. But, I think it is something that over time, could be trickled into the school system... Slow and steady wins the race, so to speak. There is one important fact in this school shooting that prevented it from being the mass carnage it could have been. That fact is that the shooter was not the only one with a gun in that school that day. There was an armed resource officer who cornered the shooter within a couple of minutes of entering the school causing the shooter to give up and take his own life. Yes the violence that did happen was absolutely tragic and unspeakable but there is something wrong with the mindset that gathering our children and then announce to every psychopath with gun free signs that they are defenseless is a good idea. How many more of these do we have to have before we defend our schools? Yeah, that should be a no-brainer anymore. We have an Officer in every Public school in our jurisdiction......but private schools are still not included. |
| 2013-12-16 10:23 AM in reply to: SGirl |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by SGirl Originally posted by velocomp Bingo! Yep. AGREE! It is not the school's responsibility to raise our kids. SO TRUE. But...collectively, there has to be an effort with parents, students and schools to make sure people are safe when they are at school. It's incredibly sad that teachers and students need to worry over being safe during their time on school campuses. Originally posted by SGirl Originally posted by mehaner I agree, it's an idea not without its flaws...I realize that. I'm just tossing out potential ideas. As it stands, doing nothing...isn't the answer either. Reacting by imposing stricter gun laws, that won't do anything. If someone (a teenager, adult, etc) wishes to hurt others, he/she will find a way to find an accessible weapon to do so. So...to me, it's not about gun control...it's about how to become more proactive to helping troubled kids before they go down a violent path. How to do that, not quite sure. :/ Originally posted by SGirl Yes, exactly. Agreed. Not an easy or quick fix by any means, but if as a community ...people start reporting 'odd' behaviors at the first signs of them with respect to troubled youth behaviors, then we might see a change. It's not a guarantee, but it's a start in the right direction. It's important to educate students for example, when it comes to facebook, as that is where a lot of troubled kids 'air' their problems. So, students should be mindful to report behaviors they deem as out of the norm, and adults can then take it from there. I know this takes courage, and might seem intrusive at first, but quite a few of these shooting stories have as a common theme...a troubled youth, who many around him thought was troubled, 'different,' 'strange,' depressed, a loner...etc....etc...but, no one took it further than that. Healthy minded, well adjusted teenagers don't shoot people and then commit suicide. Something far deeper was going on here, and the incident at the school, was what pushed him over the edge. Increasing gun control or not...this incident most likely would still have happened...and will likely happen again and again, until we start getting to the heart of what ails these kids. Just my $.02 dealing with depression is hard enough for a teenager to deal with, now let's add being labeled a potential psychopath. i dunno, there are lots of weird lonely kids out there that wouldn't hurt a soul. i agree that mental illness is the root cause, but you can't just lock up every person you think is odd. and giving teenagers the right to report that? a whole new weapon in a bullying arsenal.
Another thing to Think about is who is responsible for what ever the solution is. While working out this morning I was talking to my daughters ex-teacher (last year) whose husband happens to be a coach and student counsler at Arapahoe HS. Her concern is that they keep adding to what the teacher are responsible for in terms of identifying these types of children, but they do not provide any support in getting the families to follow through. Families understandably do not want their child labeled so they do nothing. And then the teacher is labelled the problem if they try to control that child. I believe it is not the role of the schools to discipline or raise our children. But many parents and the rest of society don't seem to want that role either.
We often just hear of the kids' issues with shootings like this, but I'm genuinely curious to know what the family situations are as well. What are the contributing factors. The kids that are bullied don't typically go to school and say, I want to be an introvert that gets picked on, they usually have some type of influence from their parents/family. One of my daughters friends that our family has "pseudo" adopted has a train wreck for a family. Parents are both divorced and completely ignore their children. Her siblings are cranked out on drugs and she constantly dresses all black, has lots of piercings, and dye's her hair weird colors. She's a sweet girl, but is just screaming for attention from anyone who will give it to her. I don't think she's going to go shoot up a school, but no anti-bullying program in the world is going to fix her family. |
| 2013-12-16 10:37 AM in reply to: tuwood |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. I think the biggest problem with our children these days is their inability to and inexperience with solving their own interpersonal problems. Schools are becoming more and more restrictive for fear of lawsuits, and it is handicapping children. For instance, at my elementary school they are no longer allowed to play any ball sports for fear of someone being injured. With the school's "zero tolerance" policy about bullying, now the children see the solution is running to an authority figure? In my day, (not that long ago mind you) that got you branded as a snitch and ostracized. We had to solve our own problems. Like tuwood, I got in a couple fights, and guess what, standing up for yourself works. Heck, half the time you would become friends later. Beyond that, kids need to learn to deal with one other to mature emotionally. We wonder why we are getting a generation of self centered kids with tons of "emotional issues." This is why. They are told the world revolves around them, if there is something they don't like an adult will fix it for them, and they are stunted in their interpersonal relationships (also due in part to communicating behind a computer screen all day). If you want to fix the problems, tell the kids that life isn't always fair, sometimes people are arses, and you need to learn how to deal with it. Maybe if some of these bullied kids had gotten in a fight, or stood up for themselves they wouldn't have bottled it all up until they brought a gun into school. |
| 2013-12-16 11:03 AM in reply to: pga_mike |
Expert 2180 Boise, Idaho | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by pga_mike Maybe the answer is in reaching out to people who are hurting, lonely and struggling. Not just our "fun friends". Not casting stones as I live in a glass house. I could do better. ^^^^^I like this. That would be my plan, too!^^^^^ |
| 2013-12-16 12:36 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by dmiller5 I think the biggest problem with our children these days is their inability to and inexperience with solving their own interpersonal problems. Schools are becoming more and more restrictive for fear of lawsuits, and it is handicapping children. For instance, at my elementary school they are no longer allowed to play any ball sports for fear of someone being injured. With the school's "zero tolerance" policy about bullying, now the children see the solution is running to an authority figure? In my day, (not that long ago mind you) that got you branded as a snitch and ostracized. We had to solve our own problems. Like tuwood, I got in a couple fights, and guess what, standing up for yourself works. Heck, half the time you would become friends later. Beyond that, kids need to learn to deal with one other to mature emotionally. We wonder why we are getting a generation of self centered kids with tons of "emotional issues." This is why. They are told the world revolves around them, if there is something they don't like an adult will fix it for them, and they are stunted in their interpersonal relationships (also due in part to communicating behind a computer screen all day). If you want to fix the problems, tell the kids that life isn't always fair, sometimes people are arses, and you need to learn how to deal with it. Maybe if some of these bullied kids had gotten in a fight, or stood up for themselves they wouldn't have bottled it all up until they brought a gun into school. It's hard to disagree with this. Thinking back to growing up several of the kids that got in big fights became really good friends afterwards. Kind of weird. lol |
| 2013-12-16 12:46 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by dmiller5 I think the biggest problem with our children these days is their inability to and inexperience with solving their own interpersonal problems. Schools are becoming more and more restrictive for fear of lawsuits, and it is handicapping children. For instance, at my elementary school they are no longer allowed to play any ball sports for fear of someone being injured. With the school's "zero tolerance" policy about bullying, now the children see the solution is running to an authority figure? In my day, (not that long ago mind you) that got you branded as a snitch and ostracized. We had to solve our own problems. Like tuwood, I got in a couple fights, and guess what, standing up for yourself works. Heck, half the time you would become friends later. Beyond that, kids need to learn to deal with one other to mature emotionally. We wonder why we are getting a generation of self centered kids with tons of "emotional issues." This is why. They are told the world revolves around them, if there is something they don't like an adult will fix it for them, and they are stunted in their interpersonal relationships (also due in part to communicating behind a computer screen all day). If you want to fix the problems, tell the kids that life isn't always fair, sometimes people are arses, and you need to learn how to deal with it. Maybe if some of these bullied kids had gotten in a fight, or stood up for themselves they wouldn't have bottled it all up until they brought a gun into school. It's hard to disagree with this. Thinking back to growing up several of the kids that got in big fights became really good friends afterwards. Kind of weird. lol I saw something the other day on FB that said that if "The Breakfast Club" had happened in 2013, the kids would have spent the entire day on their phones texting their friends about how much detention sucked and about the other losers they were stuck in there with. They would never even have spoken to one another much less have become friends. |
| 2013-12-16 12:52 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by dmiller5 I think the biggest problem with our children these days is their inability to and inexperience with solving their own interpersonal problems. Schools are becoming more and more restrictive for fear of lawsuits, and it is handicapping children. For instance, at my elementary school they are no longer allowed to play any ball sports for fear of someone being injured. With the school's "zero tolerance" policy about bullying, now the children see the solution is running to an authority figure? In my day, (not that long ago mind you) that got you branded as a snitch and ostracized. We had to solve our own problems. Like tuwood, I got in a couple fights, and guess what, standing up for yourself works. Heck, half the time you would become friends later. Beyond that, kids need to learn to deal with one other to mature emotionally. We wonder why we are getting a generation of self centered kids with tons of "emotional issues." This is why. They are told the world revolves around them, if there is something they don't like an adult will fix it for them, and they are stunted in their interpersonal relationships (also due in part to communicating behind a computer screen all day). If you want to fix the problems, tell the kids that life isn't always fair, sometimes people are arses, and you need to learn how to deal with it. Maybe if some of these bullied kids had gotten in a fight, or stood up for themselves they wouldn't have bottled it all up until they brought a gun into school. It's hard to disagree with this. Thinking back to growing up several of the kids that got in big fights became really good friends afterwards. Kind of weird. lol X3 - but good luck with that one.....common sense left the building a long time ago. |
| 2013-12-17 9:51 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
| New user 214 Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by dmiller5 I think the biggest problem with our children these days is their inability to and inexperience with solving their own interpersonal problems. Schools are becoming more and more restrictive for fear of lawsuits, and it is handicapping children. For instance, at my elementary school they are no longer allowed to play any ball sports for fear of someone being injured. With the school's "zero tolerance" policy about bullying, now the children see the solution is running to an authority figure? In my day, (not that long ago mind you) that got you branded as a snitch and ostracized. We had to solve our own problems. Like tuwood, I got in a couple fights, and guess what, standing up for yourself works. Heck, half the time you would become friends later. Beyond that, kids need to learn to deal with one other to mature emotionally. We wonder why we are getting a generation of self centered kids with tons of "emotional issues." This is why. They are told the world revolves around them, if there is something they don't like an adult will fix it for them, and they are stunted in their interpersonal relationships (also due in part to communicating behind a computer screen all day). If you want to fix the problems, tell the kids that life isn't always fair, sometimes people are arses, and you need to learn how to deal with it. Maybe if some of these bullied kids had gotten in a fight, or stood up for themselves they wouldn't have bottled it all up until they brought a gun into school. I was thinking along similar lines. Why do so many of these kids think that the solution to their problem is to bring weapons in and kill someone? That mindset has to come from somewhere. |
| 2013-12-17 10:13 AM in reply to: tuwood |
Champion 6503 NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by dmiller5 I think the biggest problem with our children these days is their inability to and inexperience with solving their own interpersonal problems. Schools are becoming more and more restrictive for fear of lawsuits, and it is handicapping children. For instance, at my elementary school they are no longer allowed to play any ball sports for fear of someone being injured. With the school's "zero tolerance" policy about bullying, now the children see the solution is running to an authority figure? In my day, (not that long ago mind you) that got you branded as a snitch and ostracized. We had to solve our own problems. Like tuwood, I got in a couple fights, and guess what, standing up for yourself works. Heck, half the time you would become friends later. Beyond that, kids need to learn to deal with one other to mature emotionally. We wonder why we are getting a generation of self centered kids with tons of "emotional issues." This is why. They are told the world revolves around them, if there is something they don't like an adult will fix it for them, and they are stunted in their interpersonal relationships (also due in part to communicating behind a computer screen all day). If you want to fix the problems, tell the kids that life isn't always fair, sometimes people are arses, and you need to learn how to deal with it. Maybe if some of these bullied kids had gotten in a fight, or stood up for themselves they wouldn't have bottled it all up until they brought a gun into school. It's hard to disagree with this. Thinking back to growing up several of the kids that got in big fights became really good friends afterwards. Kind of weird. lol My best friend through middle school was a kid who had bullied me in first grade. We got in a scrap (ok, he whooped my butt). My mom called his mom because my jeans were ripped in the scuffle (aka butt-whooping). As the two moms talked, he asked me if I played Space Invaders. I did. And then I had a tough guy as a best friend, so no one messed with me. |
| 2013-12-17 10:32 AM in reply to: SGirl |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by SGirl Originally posted by mehaner I agree, it's an idea not without its flaws...I realize that. I'm just tossing out potential ideas. As it stands, doing nothing...isn't the answer either. Reacting by imposing stricter gun laws, that won't do anything. If someone (a teenager, adult, etc) wishes to hurt others, he/she will find a way to find an accessible weapon to do so. So...to me, it's not about gun control...it's about how to become more proactive to helping troubled kids before they go down a violent path. How to do that, not quite sure. :/ Originally posted by SGirl Yes, exactly. Agreed. Not an easy or quick fix by any means, but if as a community ...people start reporting 'odd' behaviors at the first signs of them with respect to troubled youth behaviors, then we might see a change. It's not a guarantee, but it's a start in the right direction. It's important to educate students for example, when it comes to facebook, as that is where a lot of troubled kids 'air' their problems. So, students should be mindful to report behaviors they deem as out of the norm, and adults can then take it from there. I know this takes courage, and might seem intrusive at first, but quite a few of these shooting stories have as a common theme...a troubled youth, who many around him thought was troubled, 'different,' 'strange,' depressed, a loner...etc....etc...but, no one took it further than that. Healthy minded, well adjusted teenagers don't shoot people and then commit suicide. Something far deeper was going on here, and the incident at the school, was what pushed him over the edge. Increasing gun control or not...this incident most likely would still have happened...and will likely happen again and again, until we start getting to the heart of what ails these kids. Just my $.02 dealing with depression is hard enough for a teenager to deal with, now let's add being labeled a potential psychopath. i dunno, there are lots of weird lonely kids out there that wouldn't hurt a soul. i agree that mental illness is the root cause, but you can't just lock up every person you think is odd. and giving teenagers the right to report that? a whole new weapon in a bullying arsenal. Here's my question... so teenagers were bullied and depressed 20-30 years ago. What has changed that now those teenagers go on a shooting rampage vs. not going on one? When I was in school there were weird kids who were picked on, but they never came into school shooting up the place. What occurred that made these kids cross that line? What has made them start doing it?
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| 2013-12-17 11:19 AM in reply to: KSH |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Originally posted by KSH Originally posted by SGirl Originally posted by mehaner I agree, it's an idea not without its flaws...I realize that. I'm just tossing out potential ideas. As it stands, doing nothing...isn't the answer either. Reacting by imposing stricter gun laws, that won't do anything. If someone (a teenager, adult, etc) wishes to hurt others, he/she will find a way to find an accessible weapon to do so. So...to me, it's not about gun control...it's about how to become more proactive to helping troubled kids before they go down a violent path. How to do that, not quite sure. :/ Originally posted by SGirl Yes, exactly. Agreed. Not an easy or quick fix by any means, but if as a community ...people start reporting 'odd' behaviors at the first signs of them with respect to troubled youth behaviors, then we might see a change. It's not a guarantee, but it's a start in the right direction. It's important to educate students for example, when it comes to facebook, as that is where a lot of troubled kids 'air' their problems. So, students should be mindful to report behaviors they deem as out of the norm, and adults can then take it from there. I know this takes courage, and might seem intrusive at first, but quite a few of these shooting stories have as a common theme...a troubled youth, who many around him thought was troubled, 'different,' 'strange,' depressed, a loner...etc....etc...but, no one took it further than that. Healthy minded, well adjusted teenagers don't shoot people and then commit suicide. Something far deeper was going on here, and the incident at the school, was what pushed him over the edge. Increasing gun control or not...this incident most likely would still have happened...and will likely happen again and again, until we start getting to the heart of what ails these kids. Just my $.02 dealing with depression is hard enough for a teenager to deal with, now let's add being labeled a potential psychopath. i dunno, there are lots of weird lonely kids out there that wouldn't hurt a soul. i agree that mental illness is the root cause, but you can't just lock up every person you think is odd. and giving teenagers the right to report that? a whole new weapon in a bullying arsenal. Here's my question... so teenagers were bullied and depressed 20-30 years ago. What has changed that now those teenagers go on a shooting rampage vs. not going on one? When I was in school there were weird kids who were picked on, but they never came into school shooting up the place. What occurred that made these kids cross that line? What has made them start doing it?
No easy answer, but if I had to put a word on it I would say Hopelessness and Selfishness. For one that has no hope, consequences mean nothing. For a kid that is hopeless and selfish, they want to inflict as much pain on the world as they can when they punch out. There have always been teen suicides, but now the kids have a way they can "go out in infamy". This is one of the reasons I get frustrated with the media reporting everything about these shooters. It's fulfilling their dying wish, IMHO, and letting the next guy know that he'll get the same treatment. |
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| Gun control - The Answer? Pages: 1 2 | ||
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