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2007-12-21 11:11 AM
in reply to: #1113422

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Subject: RE: 60 year old Man sues 8 year old Child....
dontracy - 2007-12-21 9:02 AM
ChrisM -

Seems to be lines drawn here, I don't know where people are putting them...

I see your point, Chris. I'm not sure where the line is.

As far as a car goes, maybe the line is that it's ok if you're on a highway trying to get to work, but not ok if you're in a road rally trying to win a race.

What about in a tri?  What if a newbie takes you down on the bike leg because they make some bonehead move? 

OK, Car situation, driving to work, it's risky, yes?  You are out ont he road, someone might skid into you? Or, as happened to me a few weeks ago, girl chatting on her phone rear ends me.  It's an accident.  No criminal intent.  No intent at all, infact, criminal or civil.  Total, 100% negligence.  I's a risk of driving.  (Let's take insurance out of the discussion)  SO I am responsible for the $1300 repair bill?

This applies to ALL human activities, so it doesn't matter if you bring up a tri sceanrio, or a golfing scenario, or whatever.  If someone else is negligent and injures another person or their property, they should have to be responsible for those injuries/damages, if the injured person chooses to seek compensation.

As for the tri, I liken it to the skier, the person overtaking has the responsibility, if a newbie, or hell, anyone, swerves into their path, it's likely the overtaking person's responsibility (of course, there is no bright line, this is why there are lawsuits, unfortunately).  The bonehad move is perhaps the overtaking person for not calling left, or passing too close, or... who knows.

I guess my overall point is it's too simplistic to say "well you were skiing/mountain biking/racing a tri" therefore you've assumed all risks of injury without taking into account the particular facts involved.

BTW, there is an (unofficial) SKier's Code Of Responsibility that says what I did above (the upslope person must yield to the downslope person)

Anyway, enough lawyer talk out of me this morning

Out



Edited by ChrisM 2007-12-21 11:16 AM


2007-12-21 11:11 AM
in reply to: #1113303

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Subject: RE: 60 year old Man sues 8 year old Child....
Does anyone else think that Fox news might, just might, be leaving out a few details? I mean I know they're "fair and balanced" and all that, but you know, sometimes little unimportant details have to be sacreficed for the sake of a blood-pressure raising story that'll get good play on internet forums and smoky doughnut shops full of old men who smell like pee.
2007-12-21 11:12 AM
in reply to: #1113425

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Subject: RE: 60 year old Man sues 8 year old Child....
JChristoff - 2007-12-21 9:02 AM
dcossey - 2007-12-21 11:45 AM

I agree that he should have to end up paying all the court fees... this is freaking frivilous.

Everyone knows you take risks when you participate in any sporting event. You accept those risks when you do participate.

(Watch him win!)

I disagree that all of these types of lawsuits are frivilous. This type of lawsuit is completely acceptable. Out of control triathlete, out of control skiier, out of control race car... doesn't matter. Yes they assume some risk while participating in any event but you are not liable for the actions of other people that cause your injury due to their negligence. I know that if I was hit by a car doing a tri that I would expect the car driver to cover my expenses... They caused my injuries. I would not, and could not however sue the race director or the company. I accepted the risks involved with racing... my injuries were not caused by racing but by the negligence of the driver. This lawsuit is ridiculous because of the issues leapdog brought up... it is getting attention because of the age disparity... that's it.

 

I wouldn't say all these types of suits are frivilous either, but this one (according to the news story) did seem as such.  One takes an inherent risk when participating in a sport.  Under the _normal_ conditions of the sport, one should fully assume that risk.  That is my opinion, of course... courts could decide differently, and there is probably case law out there to prove me wrong!  (gasp!

2007-12-21 11:14 AM
in reply to: #1113439

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Subject: RE: 60 year old Man sues 8 year old Child....

climbin5414 - 2007-12-21 9:09 AM The 4th paragraph down sums up Colorado law for skiing collisions. http://www.skisafety.com/collisioncases.phpIf you cannot aviod a standing skier, I would venture to say you are out of control. I would consider that negligance. If moving skiers collide its a whole new story, I can't count the number of times I have had someone turn infront of me, cut me off, cause me to fall. In some cases it was recklessness, it some cases it was a new skier and they didn't know different. It the case of the 8yr old their is only one side to the story, it seems like an honest mistake... someone got hurt skiing but to sue for vacation time, care from his wife is a little overboard.

Sorry, one more (I can't help myself, you cited to a statement of law).  The Colorado law (as summarized, can't vouch for its accuracy) doesn't make the distinction you did between moving and non-moving downhill skiier - emphasis added below

"Colorado law presumes that the uphill skier is at fault in an accident, because the overtaking skier has the primary duty to avoid the skier below him or her. Thus, one of the key issues in any skier/skier case is who was the uphill or overtaking skier. The nature of the injury often gives substantial clues as to how the accident occurred, the speed at which the skiers were skiing, and the relative angles to each other"

Nothing about uphill guy hitting someone standing

Now I am really Out



Edited by ChrisM 2007-12-21 11:16 AM
2007-12-21 11:16 AM
in reply to: #1113442

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Subject: RE: 60 year old Man sues 8 year old Child....
ride_like_u_stole_it - 2007-12-21 11:11 AM

Does anyone else think that Fox news might, just might, be leaving out a few details? I mean I know they're "fair and balanced" and all that, but you know, sometimes little unimportant details have to be sacreficed for the sake of a blood-pressure raising story that'll get good play on internet forums and smoky doughnut shops full of old men who smell like pee.


Fox News? Leave Out Details? Never, they report every side of every story so that we can all make our own unbiased judgement. Or something like that...
2007-12-21 11:17 AM
in reply to: #1113307

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Subject: RE: 60 year old Man sues 8 year old Child....
CubeFarmGopher - 2007-12-21 10:11 AM

I would.  If you get hit by a car driven by a 16 year old, who do you sue? 

Hijacking this a bit since this scenario happened within the last week here.  A 16-year old was driving home and hit an elderly gentleman, around 80 years old or so, that was walking across the 2-lane, not heavily traveled, county highway to check his mail across the street.  The kid didn't see the guy right away (dusk), and killed him.  The kid isn't going to be charged due to the circumstances.

Sad thing to happen, and I bet the kid is shaken up tremendously and will never forget this.  The family to the gentleman that was killed I feel sorry for, too.



2007-12-21 11:18 AM
in reply to: #1113442

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Subject: RE: 60 year old Man sues 8 year old Child....
ride_like_u_stole_it - 2007-12-21 12:11 PM

Does anyone else think that Fox news might, just might, be leaving out a few details? I mean I know they're "fair and balanced" and all that, but you know, sometimes little unimportant details have to be sacreficed for the sake of a blood-pressure raising story that'll get good play on internet forums and smoky doughnut shops full of old men who smell like pee.


What??? We never get the full story from the media and that the author may imprint their own feelings or viewpoints in their articles? I'm never watching the news again
2007-12-21 11:41 AM
in reply to: #1113332

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Subject: RE: 60 year old Man sues 8 year old Child....
leapdog - 2007-12-21 10:23 AM
Doesn't take much to crash a guy on skiis - may not have even taken contact to make it happen.




BS! It doesn't take much to take out a bad skier.

That dude shouldn't have been skiing without health insurance.

Dude works for reader's digest and needs to money to go back to work? WTF? Fck him for being such a freakin . You don't want to risk getting hurt, don't go skiing.
2007-12-21 11:44 AM
in reply to: #1113443

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: 60 year old Man sues 8 year old Child....
dcossey -

One takes an inherent risk when participating in a sport. Under the _normal_ conditions of the sport, one should fully assume that risk. That is my opinion, of course...

Mine too.

I don't believe Karma exists, but maybe "bad Karma" is the closest idea to why I wouldn't want to sue.

I've seen some friends and family members who have gotten caught up in certain kinds of lawsuits, and it seems to eat them up inside in a way.

I guess for me, it would have to pass the "look at myself in the mirror test".  As I get older, it's hard enough to look at myself in the mirror, what with all the new lines and all, without adding the burden of suing someone because I got hurt in a voluntary recreational activity. 

2007-12-21 11:50 AM
in reply to: #1113491

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Subject: RE: 60 year old Man sues 8 year old Child....
dontracy - 2007-12-21 9:44 AM
dcossey -

One takes an inherent risk when participating in a sport. Under the _normal_ conditions of the sport, one should fully assume that risk. That is my opinion, of course...

Mine too.

I don't believe Karma exists, but maybe "bad Karma" is the closest idea to why I wouldn't want to sue.

I've seen some friends and family members who have gotten caught up in certain kinds of lawsuits, and it seems to eat them up inside in a way.

I guess for me, it would have to pass the "look at myself in the mirror test".  As I get older, it's hard enough to look at myself in the mirror, what with all the new lines and all, without adding the burden of suing someone because I got hurt in a voluntary recreational activity. 

truly, honestly, really, my last post on the topic...

FTR, my posts have nothing whatsoever to do with lawsuits.  Merely responsibility (lawsuits are for another thread).  If someone chooses to shoulder the burden of repairing their own property/injuries caused by another's negligence, I totally respect that decision

To be consistent, I would also expect that same person would not seek to recover from the negligent party's insurance company  (An insurance claim and a lawsuit are differrent only in their titles and the amount of money it costs to resolve.  It seeks to place someone "at fault."

no more tempting me with juicy posts, OK?

2007-12-21 11:54 AM
in reply to: #1113510

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: 60 year old Man sues 8 year old Child....
ChrisM -

no more tempting me with juicy posts, OK?

Yea, you wish...

I agree that to be consistent you shouldn't go after their insurance company as well.

Look, I'm glad we have the right to sue in our system. I just think it's over used. I don't understand all that is involved in the call for tort reform, but when I hear the phrase "tort reform" I think, "yea, go for it".



Edited by dontracy 2007-12-21 11:55 AM


2007-12-21 11:56 AM
in reply to: #1113491

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Subject: RE: 60 year old Man sues 8 year old Child....
And another thing, anyone who has skied around kids knows that they make unexpected moves. He has some fault for skiing close enough to an 8 year old to be hit.

Standing at the bottom and getting plowed is different from actively skiing and having a collision. And I've been in both. You'll never see a veteran ski instructor on the bunny hill without a helmet. Thats the most dangerous place.

I got taken out by an out of control snowboarder 3 days after separating my shoulder. I was only pissed because he didn't say sorry.

And I don't think I am going to ride with anyone who says they sue another cyclist if they cause a crash. Thats just recockulous, and makes me sad for society.
2007-12-21 12:10 PM
in reply to: #1113533

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: 60 year old Man sues 8 year old Child....

graceful_dave - You'll never see a veteran ski instructor on the bunny hill without a helmet. Thats the most dangerous place.

Exactly!!!

I always wear a helmet, not because I'm afraid that I'll plow into a tree, but rather to protect myself from someone who is going to plow into me.

2007-12-21 12:18 PM
in reply to: #1113303

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Subject: RE: 60 year old Man sues 8 year old Child....
I've never worn a helmet but I aviod the bottom of the hill and the green slopes because too many people are on them and too many beginners are too unpredictable. I would rather work my butt off to get down a black then have to worry about the crowds.
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