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2010-03-15 10:56 AM
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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED

Well done on the race!

I was able to get out on the roads for the first and second time this year this weekend.  Yowser, I did not miss that wind - it was super windy.  It was also the first ride on my new Felt B12 and that baby is awesome.  I will post some pics when I get home tonight but there is one in my log now.  Amazing, the difference between carbon and aluminum.  I could not feel the bumps any more.  He has me in a much more aggressive position which I really like but my neck needs to get adjusted.  It was a bit sore after the 2 hour ride Sunday.  I have to admit, my wife is a little concerned that I am this happy about a bike ha!

Hockey is now officially over after our playoff loss last night so all training goes to S-B-R!

Have a good week.

Ryan



2010-03-15 11:51 AM
in reply to: #2726012

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED
Great job - Congrats!
2010-03-15 7:30 PM
in reply to: #2559007

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED
Great job on your race, Eddie!  5K's are soooo hard... 

Rymac, agree 100% on the difference between carbon and aluminum...I thought it was normal to feel every bump in the road!  Imagine my surprise when I first rode my carbon bike...it was like....butter

Did my 3rd brick of the year and was amazed at how good my legs felt coming off the bike this time!  Not wobbly at all today. 

Thank goodness, my first race is now less than 2 weeks away!  Surprised

2010-03-15 7:50 PM
in reply to: #2727956

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED


Rymac, agree 100% on the difference between carbon and aluminum...I thought it was normal to feel every bump in the road!  Imagine my surprise when I first rode my carbon bike...it was like....butter



This is why I still ride a steel bike.  Not to mention it being a lot cheaper.  It is a smooth ride.  I'm not going to win any medals either way (yet)

Congrats on the 5K eddie.  Placing is awesome no matter how big or small the race.

I ran a 5k Sunday too.  Underestimated my starting position and puttered behind a bunch of people for the 1st 1/2 mile.  Ended up 10th in my AG.  Not too bad, but I think I could have finished a minute faster.  Then I did something I never would have done in the past which was run 6 miles later in the day.

2010-03-15 10:45 PM
in reply to: #2727956

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED
kt65 - 2010-03-15 7:30 PM Great job on your race, Eddie!  5K's are soooo hard... 

Rymac, agree 100% on the difference between carbon and aluminum...I thought it was normal to feel every bump in the road!  Imagine my surprise when I first rode my carbon bike...it was like....butter

Did my 3rd brick of the year and was amazed at how good my legs felt coming off the bike this time!  Not wobbly at all today. 

Thank goodness, my first race is now less than 2 weeks awaySurprised



KT,

Reading your post about the two weeks just bumped my heart rate a few notches.  You're doing so well post-brick.  Keep it up.
2010-03-17 9:25 AM
in reply to: #2559007

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Norton Shores, MI
Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED

Wondering what everyone does for tires while switching between the trainer and outdoor riding.  I am planning on riding the trainer at least once a week probably indefinitely throughout the summer for my threshold and VO2 workouts and wondering if once a week will chew up my tires pretty good during that time and if I need to be swapping the good tires out for a bad one for my indoor rides? 

I just switched from 650c to 700c so don't have a bad one lying around..should not be too hard to find a bad/cheap/old one right..if wading through LBS dumpsters is not frowned upon ha.

Ryan



2010-03-17 7:51 PM
in reply to: #2731046

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED
i run conti gatorskins all season and regularly ride them on the trainer as well as outside.  they always last all season long.  bombproof tires.

i prefer the folding ones vs the wired bead because the folding ones are easier to mount.

never get eaten up by the trainer. 

rymac - 2010-03-17 9:25 AM

Wondering what everyone does for tires while switching between the trainer and outdoor riding.  I am planning on riding the trainer at least once a week probably indefinitely throughout the summer for my threshold and VO2 workouts and wondering if once a week will chew up my tires pretty good during that time and if I need to be swapping the good tires out for a bad one for my indoor rides? 

I just switched from 650c to 700c so don't have a bad one lying around..should not be too hard to find a bad/cheap/old one right..if wading through LBS dumpsters is not frowned upon ha.

Ryan

2010-03-18 7:13 AM
in reply to: #2732441

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED
This better be a true statement.  After melting three tires this winter thanks to Steve's training plan, I switched to Gatorskins.  Had my first ride on the CT with it yesterday.

Steve- - 2010-03-17 7:51 PM i run conti gatorskins all season and regularly ride them on the trainer as well as outside.  they always last all season long.  bombproof tires.

i prefer the folding ones vs the wired bead because the folding ones are easier to mount.

never get eaten up by the trainer. 

rymac - 2010-03-17 9:25 AM

Wondering what everyone does for tires while switching between the trainer and outdoor riding.  I am planning on riding the trainer at least once a week probably indefinitely throughout the summer for my threshold and VO2 workouts and wondering if once a week will chew up my tires pretty good during that time and if I need to be swapping the good tires out for a bad one for my indoor rides? 

I just switched from 650c to 700c so don't have a bad one lying around..should not be too hard to find a bad/cheap/old one right..if wading through LBS dumpsters is not frowned upon ha.

Ryan

2010-03-21 11:51 AM
in reply to: #2559007

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED

Would you guys/girls recommend I immediately replace the tires and tubes on my new-to-me bike?  I don’t really know how long they’ve been on the bike.  The front tire looks pretty good, I’m guessing it’s the newer of the set.  The rear looks slightly brittle, and doesn’t match the front. 

I suppose I should have taken the tires off already, but that isn’t one of the things I’ve cleaned and carefully inspected yet.

 

Dustin

2010-03-21 8:39 PM
in reply to: #2738417

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED
I'm certainly no genius when it comes to bike maintenance, but I would replace the one that looks worn if you are riding outside...if you are on the trainer, I would keep it until either it dies or you head outdoors.  

DTraitor - 2010-03-21 11:51 AM

Would you guys/girls recommend I immediately replace the tires and tubes on my new-to-me bike?  I don’t really know how long they’ve been on the bike.  The front tire looks pretty good, I’m guessing it’s the newer of the set.  The rear looks slightly brittle, and doesn’t match the front. 

I suppose I should have taken the tires off already, but that isn’t one of the things I’ve cleaned and carefully inspected yet.

 

Dustin

2010-03-22 12:31 PM
in reply to: #2559007

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED

Another good week of training in the books...so good to be riding outside again..although my feet have been numb for all of my rides it is still way better than the trainer.  I have my first race, a 15K run race on Saturday, which should be fun..supposed to be quite hilly too.

Question on recovery weeks as I start one.  What is the best diet?  I imagine cutting back on intensity for both the run and bike and keeping it the same for my swim workouts, but what about volume (50%,75%) or is it mostly individual.  I do neet feel worn out at this point but want to stay strong and motivated all season.

Ryan



2010-03-22 1:03 PM
in reply to: #2740382

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED
it's really best to keep intensity the same but only reduce volume.  a rule of thumb should be that your volume for your drop back week is about 60% of your previous week; which should have been your largest volume of the last 4 week block.

are you still in your base period?

rymac - 2010-03-22 12:31 PM

Another good week of training in the books...so good to be riding outside again..although my feet have been numb for all of my rides it is still way better than the trainer.  I have my first race, a 15K run race on Saturday, which should be fun..supposed to be quite hilly too.

Question on recovery weeks as I start one.  What is the best diet?  I imagine cutting back on intensity for both the run and bike and keeping it the same for my swim workouts, but what about volume (50%,75%) or is it mostly individual.  I do neet feel worn out at this point but want to stay strong and motivated all season.

Ryan

2010-03-22 1:34 PM
in reply to: #2559007

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED
OK, I'm back.  Last week I also had a big training week.  I met with a swim coach who gave me a LOT of in-the-water instruction!  Here's where I am today:

Free 3/22/10
Free 3/22/10 2

Improved from where I was a few months ago, but still have a lot of work to do.  I'm posting this for anyone who wants to see it and hopefully learn something too.  I had to practice watching my hand entry while swimming to see where my R arm was dropping in too early and then falling low rather than actually pulling from the start.  I also wasn't rotating very well.  So in these videos (taken today) I've made some improvement, but it's going to take a long time to retrain my brain.  Even in these videos you can watch me screw it up, but then I catch it and fix it... like my head dropping down and water going over my head.  I'm also trying to breath every 4 strokes.  I'm not there yet, so you'll see me take a breath every 2 or 4 breaths wit no real focus.

Anyway, I'm open for more instruction from anyone.  I hope that someone else can take away from this too.

2010-03-22 2:34 PM
in reply to: #2740490

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED

Yes, that was my first 4 week block of a 20 week plan, so 16 weeks out at this point.  Last week was my largest volume week of training thus far. 

I am looking at the race this saturday as a method to see where my run fitness is at and get an updated LTHR and training paces as I am hoping to finish in under 63 minutes although the hills may have something to say about that.  I want to get my M pace to 7:15 m/mi or below as I feel that is an attainable HIM run pace for me.  Testing during a recovery week a good method for solid results??

Ryan

Steve- - 2010-03-22 2:03 PM it's really best to keep intensity the same but only reduce volume.  a rule of thumb should be that your volume for your drop back week is about 60% of your previous week; which should have been your largest volume of the last 4 week block.

are you still in your base period?

rymac - 2010-03-22 12:31 PM

Another good week of training in the books...so good to be riding outside again..although my feet have been numb for all of my rides it is still way better than the trainer.  I have my first race, a 15K run race on Saturday, which should be fun..supposed to be quite hilly too.

Question on recovery weeks as I start one.  What is the best diet?  I imagine cutting back on intensity for both the run and bike and keeping it the same for my swim workouts, but what about volume (50%,75%) or is it mostly individual.  I do neet feel worn out at this point but want to stay strong and motivated all season.

Ryan

2010-03-22 9:43 PM
in reply to: #2740826

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED
testing during recovery week is good, i like to do it.  however, if you're testing watts on the bike....there is benefit to testing during regular weeks too as this allows you to see your results during normal "operational tempo"...meaning, if you test during a regular week (like week 2 of a 4 week block) that can have benefit if used properly because sometimes recovery week results can be high and so when you're training you might have difficulty reaching those numbers.


rymac - 2010-03-22 2:34 PM

Yes, that was my first 4 week block of a 20 week plan, so 16 weeks out at this point.  Last week was my largest volume week of training thus far. 

I am looking at the race this saturday as a method to see where my run fitness is at and get an updated LTHR and training paces as I am hoping to finish in under 63 minutes although the hills may have something to say about that.  I want to get my M pace to 7:15 m/mi or below as I feel that is an attainable HIM run pace for me.  Testing during a recovery week a good method for solid results??

Ryan

Steve- - 2010-03-22 2:03 PM it's really best to keep intensity the same but only reduce volume.  a rule of thumb should be that your volume for your drop back week is about 60% of your previous week; which should have been your largest volume of the last 4 week block.

are you still in your base period?

rymac - 2010-03-22 12:31 PM

Another good week of training in the books...so good to be riding outside again..although my feet have been numb for all of my rides it is still way better than the trainer.  I have my first race, a 15K run race on Saturday, which should be fun..supposed to be quite hilly too.

Question on recovery weeks as I start one.  What is the best diet?  I imagine cutting back on intensity for both the run and bike and keeping it the same for my swim workouts, but what about volume (50%,75%) or is it mostly individual.  I do neet feel worn out at this point but want to stay strong and motivated all season.

Ryan

2010-03-22 9:58 PM
in reply to: #2740602

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED
good stuff.  you've made progress since the last videos you shared with use.  nice job!

your torso is not twisting as much...meaning your shoulders and hips are staying in alignment and moving in unison much more than they were before.

your right hand is entering is much later than it was before so that has improved.  your left arm really hasn't moved to enter earlier compared to the earlier videos so continue to work on hand entry with your left hand.

having water flow over your head is not a bad thing because things moving below the surface of the water have less resistance than things moving on the surface of the water.  try to work on not lifting your head before your breath but keep it low in the water and just turn your head to breath to grab air at the trough of that bow wave the top of your head creates.

it would be beneficial to see you swimming at speed to (80% effort and 100% effort) and see how your form looks then since that really is the form you'll be racing with.

driving your hand recovery and entry with your hip is a good way to focus on efficiency.

keep it up man.  you're doing great.  swimming with great form doesn't come in just one or two seasons...it takes a long time to get great technique.  Hey, even Michael Phelps works on technique all the time !!

remember....no one gets in the water and has a "natural" ability to have great freestyle technique.  EVERYONE has to learn it so you're not alone.  good swimming takes practice...hundreds of thousands of yards of focused, directive, practice.  so don't get discouraged.

the good thing is...good technique (and remember good is all about progress not perfection)...when learned rarely goes away even after months out of the water so the good news is once you ingrain it in your head it's locked in tight and rarely dwindles to zero.

JHagerman - 2010-03-22 1:34 PM OK, I'm back.  Last week I also had a big training week.  I met with a swim coach who gave me a LOT of in-the-water instruction!  Here's where I am today:

Free 3/22/10
Free 3/22/10 2

Improved from where I was a few months ago, but still have a lot of work to do.  I'm posting this for anyone who wants to see it and hopefully learn something too.  I had to practice watching my hand entry while swimming to see where my R arm was dropping in too early and then falling low rather than actually pulling from the start.  I also wasn't rotating very well.  So in these videos (taken today) I've made some improvement, but it's going to take a long time to retrain my brain.  Even in these videos you can watch me screw it up, but then I catch it and fix it... like my head dropping down and water going over my head.  I'm also trying to breath every 4 strokes.  I'm not there yet, so you'll see me take a breath every 2 or 4 breaths wit no real focus.

Anyway, I'm open for more instruction from anyone.  I hope that someone else can take away from this too.



2010-03-24 9:01 AM
in reply to: #2559007

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED

Question on bike LTHR for indoors vs. outside.  Will these two numbers be pretty close?  There seem to be alot more variables outside along with bike handling where you are using muscles not used on the trainer.  Would it be logical to add a couple beats from my inside LTHR to get my outside number.  Just something about doing a 30 minute TT on open roads makes me nervous.  I would much rather use a race to get that critical info which is a couple months away still.  Any thoughts?  Thanks.

Ryan

2010-03-24 11:24 AM
in reply to: #2744875

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED
it can be different but is almost always insignificant.  especially if its only a couple beats.  anything less than 8-10 beats is insignificant.

the only time it can be significant is if you overheat indoors.

what makes your "nervous" about an outdoor 30min TT?


rymac - 2010-03-24 9:01 AM

Question on bike LTHR for indoors vs. outside.  Will these two numbers be pretty close?  There seem to be alot more variables outside along with bike handling where you are using muscles not used on the trainer.  Would it be logical to add a couple beats from my inside LTHR to get my outside number.  Just something about doing a 30 minute TT on open roads makes me nervous.  I would much rather use a race to get that critical info which is a couple months away still.  Any thoughts?  Thanks.

Ryan

2010-03-24 12:49 PM
in reply to: #2745387

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED

Yeah, good point.  Nervous..probably should not be..just going full tilt and worry about cars pulling out and me not being quite as defensive riding during a TT.  I am sure it would be fine...I mostly ride country roads so minimal traffic usually.  Maybe I will do it on a quiet early Saturday morning. 

By the way, thanks for the help along the way here, your advice has been plenty helpful.

Ryan

Steve- - 2010-03-24 12:24 PM it can be different but is almost always insignificant.  especially if its only a couple beats.  anything less than 8-10 beats is insignificant.

the only time it can be significant is if you overheat indoors.

what makes your "nervous" about an outdoor 30min TT?


rymac - 2010-03-24 9:01 AM

Question on bike LTHR for indoors vs. outside.  Will these two numbers be pretty close?  There seem to be alot more variables outside along with bike handling where you are using muscles not used on the trainer.  Would it be logical to add a couple beats from my inside LTHR to get my outside number.  Just something about doing a 30 minute TT on open roads makes me nervous.  I would much rather use a race to get that critical info which is a couple months away still.  Any thoughts?  Thanks.

Ryan

2010-03-24 12:56 PM
in reply to: #2745686

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED
yes....i find that sunrise on sundays is the best time to ride.  very very few cars out and the most beautiful time of day.

you're welcome for the advice.  i love this sport and glad there is more than just me that cares to hear about it. 

rymac - 2010-03-24 12:49 PM

Yeah, good point.  Nervous..probably should not be..just going full tilt and worry about cars pulling out and me not being quite as defensive riding during a TT.  I am sure it would be fine...I mostly ride country roads so minimal traffic usually.  Maybe I will do it on a quiet early Saturday morning. 

By the way, thanks for the help along the way here, your advice has been plenty helpful.

Ryan

Steve- - 2010-03-24 12:24 PM it can be different but is almost always insignificant.  especially if its only a couple beats.  anything less than 8-10 beats is insignificant.

the only time it can be significant is if you overheat indoors.

what makes your "nervous" about an outdoor 30min TT?


rymac - 2010-03-24 9:01 AM

Question on bike LTHR for indoors vs. outside.  Will these two numbers be pretty close?  There seem to be alot more variables outside along with bike handling where you are using muscles not used on the trainer.  Would it be logical to add a couple beats from my inside LTHR to get my outside number.  Just something about doing a 30 minute TT on open roads makes me nervous.  I would much rather use a race to get that critical info which is a couple months away still.  Any thoughts?  Thanks.

Ryan

2010-03-25 6:33 PM
in reply to: #2559007

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED
Been doing some good trng down here in SWFL. All but the wind has been nice and the 7 inches of rain in 4 days. Killed us down here no crying since we dont have snow on the ground. lol Have my first tri of the season Xterra in Miami looking forward to doing some trail running and mtb. Looking forward to seeing how things workout. Question on wetsuits what do you guys use. The water down here is 61 degrees it is ridiculous it looks like my first two tris will be wetsuit legal. Not good, tried the suit off the BT site (promotion) but it tears most definitely need to upgrade. You get what you pay for ring a bell.


2010-03-25 6:44 PM
in reply to: #2749284

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED
what suit did you get of BT promo?

i got a couple wetsuits.  old school xterra vortex thats 4 yrs old and is built like a tank (no rips) and just purchased the cheapo sleeveless xterra...again, tanklike/very durable neoprene.  i've noticed that the higher ends suits tend to tear/fingernail rips easier because that neoprene/SCS is more supple which allows it to stretch more.  cheaper wetsuits I've worn and now own tend to be more durable but less stretchy.

fireman70 - 2010-03-25 6:33 PM Been doing some good trng down here in SWFL. All but the wind has been nice and the 7 inches of rain in 4 days. Killed us down here no crying since we dont have snow on the ground. lol Have my first tri of the season Xterra in Miami looking forward to doing some trail running and mtb. Looking forward to seeing how things workout. Question on wetsuits what do you guys use. The water down here is 61 degrees it is ridiculous it looks like my first two tris will be wetsuit legal. Not good, tried the suit off the BT site (promotion) but it tears most definitely need to upgrade. You get what you pay for ring a bell.
2010-03-26 6:56 AM
in reply to: #2749307

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED

I have a Blue Seventy Helix and really like it.  No problems, comfortable, and easy to get out of.  I got it at the end of the season 2 years ago and it was not too pricey..not sure what they go for now.  May want to check the classfieds here and on ST if you want to grab a good one for cheap(er).

The water temps at a couple of my tri's last year..58 and 62.  The day before it was 56 degrees when I took a little swim.  That was shockingly cold but the 62 felt comofortable and really not too bad and I was using a sleeveless so don't worry too much.

Ryan

Steve- - 2010-03-25 7:44 PM what suit did you get of BT promo?

i got a couple wetsuits.  old school xterra vortex thats 4 yrs old and is built like a tank (no rips) and just purchased the cheapo sleeveless xterra...again, tanklike/very durable neoprene.  i've noticed that the higher ends suits tend to tear/fingernail rips easier because that neoprene/SCS is more supple which allows it to stretch more.  cheaper wetsuits I've worn and now own tend to be more durable but less stretchy.

fireman70 - 2010-03-25 6:33 PM Been doing some good trng down here in SWFL. All but the wind has been nice and the 7 inches of rain in 4 days. Killed us down here no crying since we dont have snow on the ground. lol Have my first tri of the season Xterra in Miami looking forward to doing some trail running and mtb. Looking forward to seeing how things workout. Question on wetsuits what do you guys use. The water down here is 61 degrees it is ridiculous it looks like my first two tris will be wetsuit legal. Not good, tried the suit off the BT site (promotion) but it tears most definitely need to upgrade. You get what you pay for ring a bell.

2010-03-26 8:41 PM
in reply to: #2559007

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED
Steve

After my long run hiatus, I was curious whether all the biking I did would have benefitted my running once I was able to return.  While I haven't been able to push the pace yet, I am kind of suprised my Z1/2 paces are as good as when I ended the season.  Biking seems to have helped my running legs.  Does that make sense?  There is a discussion going on in the main forum about cross training and I dug up this study which seems to support the bike/run connection.  It's long, so if you look at page 8 you get the general take away.  Would that mean doing more biking and less running in season would still be a good thing? 
2010-03-26 8:51 PM
in reply to: #2751818

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Subject: RE: Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED
yes, there is some benefit to cross training and mostly benefits to the cardiovascular system.  of course cycling and running are different movement but similar enough to help athletes realize benefits that you are realizing.  the time where the differences can be most pronounced is when an athlete begins to ramp up speedwork too soon in running after a hiatus if proper endurance is not built.

i am working with an athlete right now going through that situation.  they are running boston in a few weeks but have an injured hamstring from climbing a silly mountain in chile for weeks with 70lbs pack.  they have phenominal aerobic system and could most definitely complete boston if injury heals properly w/o much running because of the cross training and cycling.

of course, the disclaimer always is, the answer varies by each athlete's situation, but to answer your question, yes, cycling helps running primarily cardiovascularly but also somewhat muscularly too...especially in z1/z2 you mention.

keep in mind that you can't train for run performance by cycling. augmentation is really the most benefit that can be realized through cycling as it relates to running and run performance enhancement is very limited through cycling training...but there is cross benefit; hence the terminology "cross training".  funny how that works huh?




SSMinnow - 2010-03-26 8:41 PM Steve

After my long run hiatus, I was curious whether all the biking I did would have benefitted my running once I was able to return.  While I haven't been able to push the pace yet, I am kind of suprised my Z1/2 paces are as good as when I ended the season.  Biking seems to have helped my running legs.  Does that make sense?  There is a discussion going on in the main forum about cross training and I dug up this study which seems to support the bike/run connection.  It's long, so if you look at page 8 you get the general take away.  Would that mean doing more biking and less running in season would still be a good thing? 


Edited by Steve- 2010-03-26 8:53 PM
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