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Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! (Page 21)
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 2008-08-05 8:45 PM in reply to: #1583755 |
Champion  7233    |  Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!!a tri bike will do two main things that will cut time off. aside from the aero frame (at your speeds worth around a min per 40k), it will let you get into a much better position which is worth a decent amount depending on your setup, and it lets you save the hamstrings for the run more. in a half it could do anything from 5-10 min depending on where you are setup now. nice thing about it is there are some awesome cheap frames out there (cervelo dual, P2sl, blue t16) to name a few. need to cook dinner, will post more soon. |
| 2008-08-05 9:18 PM in reply to: #1583755 |
Veteran 161 Pasadena, MD | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! Too bad about your A race being canceled. Let us know how your training is going. Are you using any particular plan for your marathon? Followed Chris' lead and signed up for my first '09 event... Columbia. It fills up quickly so I'm glad I noticed it on your race list! My parents, aunt and uncle, and 2 cousins are coming to North East in two weeks so that will now be my "A" race. I'm going to do a DU in DE (say that 5 times fast!) on 9/13 to transition into full running mode until my marathon on 10/26. It's a pretty lengthy DU... 3.1, 20, 3.1 so it should be challenging and fun. For the mary I am following a basic plan laid out for us by the running club I joined... Mon = X-train; Tues = 5-6; Wed = 7-8; Thurs = 5-6; Friday = OFF; Sat = LONG (10-22), Sun = Recovery (3-4).... Been working out pretty good so far. Been replacing Wed with a 30 mile bike and starting to swim Mon, Fri, Sun. |
| 2008-08-06 6:15 AM in reply to: #1584219 |
| Fishers, IN | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! Most marathon programs are about 4 months in length so if you were purely a runner you would be late with the marathon training. I have come to understand that the tri training takes you a long way-you can get away with way less running volume and as you have pointed out less time to focus on it. I learned this a couple years ago when I was biking a lot due to an injury and decided to start swimming while I was thinking about tris longer term. I was able to start training the run in September and really only had three weeks of reasonable running-just basically built up my long run (had 3 runs in the 15, 18, then 20 range) and ran fairly low volume for me during those three weeks prior to taper (50ish mpw). My goal was to get a 3:20 so I could go with a group of my friends to Boston. I was totally surprised to find my lactate threshold pace for running was way faster than expected and I was able to hit a 3:09 without hardly any running. Granted I can build up my long pretty quickly because I have been running for a long time. If I were you, along with your other tri training, I would start to build my long and not really change much else-run them slow and easy. The tri training will take care of most of the rest. Then you will be ready to go in September, because you shouldn't do a long in the last two weeks before your marathon. |
| 2008-08-06 6:31 AM in reply to: #1584123 |
| Fishers, IN | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! Again perhaps a dumb question, but is there a difference between a time trial bike (cyclist terminology) versus a tri bike? I remember you were selling a bike without its wheel set awhile back, did you sell it? 5-10 minutes would move my bike time way up the rankings. In Indy we have the second fastest 45-50 year old in the country, not to mention in my neighborhood we have a guy in my AG who is and All american (cover of midwest running magazine this month) and way up the rankings. They finished 1,2 in my AG at Steelhead and I got 5th. They were 4 and 8 minutes ahead of me on bike, respectively. I can't touch them running and of course it will take some time to get my swim close. Not a big deal, because they are both really nice guys. But it would be nice to close the gap some. |
| 2008-08-06 11:16 AM in reply to: #1584456 |
Extreme Veteran 370 | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! rc63413 - 2008-08-06 7:15 AM You are quickly becoming my least favorite person on here ;-) Just kidding but holy crap are you fast...to add to David's post, I have a question. What are your riding now? A roadie with/without aero bars? Obviously the delta between your current ride and a new bike will be a huge factor. Going from a non-aero roadie where you are riding in a cruising position to a fully-aero bike and position will likely mean a pretty big gain in speed (when compared on the same course/same conditions, that is). However, I'd wonder if you can really get a good aero position and ready to ride a HIM in aero in just a few months. I have no clue but I'd assume that is a pretty big adjustment to make over a short period of time... David, what are your thoughts on the time required to get skilled at riding aero? How about building endurance in the aero position? Does the change in position have any negative effect on your overall endurance while you learn the new position? --Chris |
| 2008-08-06 11:42 AM in reply to: #1584473 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! depending on what bikes you look at there could and could not be a diff. more and more are looking the same now, but the real diff between a TT and a tri bike is the seat tube angle, tri bikes are steeper to put the front end lower, and use more quad muscles on the bike, and less hamstring. bikes like felt, and cervelo are both. still have the frameset here. if you are taller than about 5'7'' or 8 its too small |
| 2008-08-06 12:54 PM in reply to: #1585228 |
| Fishers, IN | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! Chris, while I am new to this sport I have been working really hard at the running for 8 years and the cycling quite a bit during a few of the years where I was injured. I am willing to share with you guys as much or as little of what I know about running. I have pretty much read everything in print about that sport and in many ways am embarrassed by how slow I am because I know how many miles I have logged getting there. I ride a Giant TCR roadbike. It does have aero bas so I might not experience as big of gains. I will say my lower back was killing me the last 15 miles or so and I wasn't staying aero much of that time. Other downside is I have to reach out to the handle bars to shift gears A person I work with is selling a Guru tri bike for $900 (I might be able to get it a little less) Frame:Aluminum 55-56cm Fork: Carbon. Cockpit: Vision aluminum basebar, extensions and stem. Brakes: Shimano Ultegra calipers/Tekro carbon levers. Drivechain: full Ultegra 10spd 6600 double w/12-25 cassette. Wheelset: New Real Design Supersphere (1430g/pair) w/ new Michelin ProRace2 tires. Seat: Fizik Arione Tri. Seatpost: Thomson forward. Pedals not included. $75 extra for Speedplay Chromoly (no clips). Cateye wireless computer and Profile Design water bottle cage included Would that be a good deal or better holding off, looking more and just going for a new one next year? |
| 2008-08-06 1:13 PM in reply to: #1585567 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! if that fits you, go for it. get set up right so your fit is on. if it fits right that will do wonders for your power and keeping you aero |
| 2008-08-07 7:19 AM in reply to: #1585567 |
Extreme Veteran 370 | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! rc63413 - 2008-08-06 1:54 PM Don't worry, I was just joshin' with ya ;-) I remember from past posts how much running you've done and how hard you've worked. If anything it makes me wish I'd gotten my crap together a few years earlier but such is life, right? Again great job and please do share anything you can about improving success on the run (and bike for that matter). I'm working hard and making what I feel are good gains but I also know that my knowledge of all three sports is minute so I'd love to hear your thoughts. If it helps, take a look at my logs...that is a good track record for my training since January/February. Chris, while I am new to this sport I have been working really hard at the running for 8 years and the cycling quite a bit during a few of the years where I was injured. I am willing to share with you guys as much or as little of what I know about running. I have pretty much read everything in print about that sport and in many ways am embarrassed by how slow I am because I know how many miles I have logged getting there. I ride a Giant TCR roadbike. It does have aero bas so I might not experience as big of gains. I will say my lower back was killing me the last 15 miles or so and I wasn't staying aero much of that time. Other downside is I have to reach out to the handle bars to shift gears A person I work with is selling a Guru tri bike for $900 (I might be able to get it a little less) Frame:Aluminum 55-56cm Fork: Carbon. Cockpit: Vision aluminum basebar, extensions and stem. Brakes: Shimano Ultegra calipers/Tekro carbon levers. Drivechain: full Ultegra 10spd 6600 double w/12-25 cassette. Wheelset: New Real Design Supersphere (1430g/pair) w/ new Michelin ProRace2 tires. Seat: Fizik Arione Tri. Seatpost: Thomson forward. Pedals not included. $75 extra for Speedplay Chromoly (no clips). Cateye wireless computer and Profile Design water bottle cage included Would that be a good deal or better holding off, looking more and just going for a new one next year? Thanks! --Chris |
| 2008-08-07 11:15 AM in reply to: #1587150 |
| Fishers, IN | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! Chris, what are you talking about you are still very young! I didn't get going until I was almost 40. You got a decade lead on me. I don't know where I am going to go with this tri stuff, but definitely am enjoying it - I think I pretty much tapped out my running PR's. With my family, it is hard for me to get into a structured plan for training, but I am going to try to use what mostly I have learned from running and expect that the same things I found work for running also work for the other endurance sport. First, volume is important, and variable paces (hopefully some at what corresponds to VO2 max and a lot that corresponds to LT) are important. I have a friend who does 6K miles per year on a bike and another (retired) who does over 15K miles. Both are strong riders, but I think they have plateaued because of not enjough variable pace. We can learn together. I am still learning this BT page, there are so many utilities and information. Pretty awesome site! Thank you for pointing out the Bryan's web page. It is nice to see how some of you have taken up swimming and built it to being competetive even though you did not swim in high school or college. First it tells me it can be done, second I can follow your logs to see how you did it. This site is great. I still need to learn how you get their blog spots to show up in the left hand corner so you can easily access them! I'll check out your logs, but I check them now and then and it looks like you have been setting yourself up pretty well for some good racing coming up. Lucnch time is over so better go, Greg |
| 2008-08-07 11:49 AM in reply to: #1587736 |
Extreme Veteran 370 | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! Greg, Too add a blog to your blog just go to the "Control Panel" icon on the left side of your blog. After clicking that icon and being directed to the control panel page you select the "Friends" tab. Enter in a users screen name and click the "Apply" button at the bottom of the page. Voila, you've can check others blogs right from yours! And I hear you about volume, time and variable pacing. I could certainly be training more but for now I'm about maxed out on time so gains in miles per week are mostly the result of increased pacing. But come this Fall I hope to get my running up to four days a week with some long weekend runs for good measure ;-) --Chris |
| 2008-08-08 2:56 PM in reply to: #1587826 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! if one of you on a real internet conection can post this as a photo that would be awesome. http://i33.tinypic.com/10wi6tx.jpg need to cut the steerer tube and put my front wheel on there (blackwell 100) as soon as it gets here, but this is the bike i am on now  |
| 2008-08-08 3:13 PM in reply to: #1354430 |
Expert 935 South eastern Ohio | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! |
| 2008-08-08 5:38 PM in reply to: #1590959 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! sure did work thanks! |
| 2008-08-08 5:46 PM in reply to: #1354430 |
Expert 935 South eastern Ohio | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! Your welcome. Gotta run have dinner guests and I'm playing on the computer. |
| 2008-08-09 7:37 PM in reply to: #1590959 |
| Fishers, IN | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! That bike is awesome! |
| 2008-08-11 1:50 PM in reply to: #1592395 |
Extreme Veteran 370 | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! Nice race, David. So, how did you end up off course? I would be totally pissed if that happened! Anyone else racing this weekend? --Chris |
| 2008-08-11 2:32 PM in reply to: #1594839 |
| Fishers, IN | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! No , I had a friend also who ended up off course on a marathon where he would have easily PR'd. I know there is a lot to putting on one of these races, but that would be at the top of my checklist if I was a race director (make sure the turns are covered). I have run into a number of races where that was not the case, even where you had to ask which way to go. I am sure that if you are in the front that is even a more frequent occurrence. |
| 2008-08-11 2:44 PM in reply to: #1594996 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! this is the 2nd time i have been at the front of a race and had this happen should have been ok, i trainined on these roads all th way through school and have done this race 3 times now. i asked the RD before the race if it was the same course, he said yes. there are two races going on, a short course sprint, and a long course that is just under oly distance. bike is out and back, with the long course just going out a bit further. i was in front by about 5 min nearing the turn around, and there is a place where the road makes a Y split, we normally go left, but there was a cop and a woman sitting there (has never been someone there in the past) so i slowed down and asked which way for the sprint, she waved me on to the left (ok good, just there for traffic). i get 3 miles up the road and the cop flies up next to me screaming, " you missed the turn you missed the turn" i think, here we go again, i turn, and hammer it back into town. came off the bike in 8th instead of the 5-10 min lead i wanted, and took off on the run, managed to pull in some people and finished in 4th, 2 min off the lead. it seems at a lot of races people are not ready for the lead bikes to come through, this almost happened a 3rd time to me but i caught the turn arrow and made it. |
| 2008-08-12 7:47 AM in reply to: #1354430 |
Extreme Veteran 370 | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! Bummer...guess that is one of the nice things about being in the middle of the pack ;-) Regardless nice race and way to pick off a few guys on the run... --Chris |
| 2008-08-13 5:32 PM in reply to: #1596437 |
| Fishers, IN | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! Chris, David you both have tri bikes? What were you riding before? Did you get one just as you started out doing tris or did you work your way into it? I know in the end it is mostly the engine, but if I can get "free speed" I will take it. A few minutes (perhaps 6) will make a major difference in how I place with respect to individuals in my AG (even same AG and my own neighborhood!). I lost 4 minutes on the bike last week to a neighbor a few blocks away. I can't compete with him overall, I can close on his swim but he is a faster runner-2:36 marathoner, but it would be nice to be close on the bike. |
| 2008-08-13 8:47 PM in reply to: #1601799 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! i started out on a tri bike. i have been on and off a road bike now and then, but i love my tri bike. road bikes i like for group riding and climbing, but thats about it, for speed there is nothing like a tt/tri bike |
| 2008-08-14 12:02 PM in reply to: #1602117 |
| Fishers, IN | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! From what I am reading everywhere, the tri bike gives you a much better aero position. I could likely switch over my back up bike (aluminum allez), but my current bike is too short for me to change its set up much. The tri bike a friend of mine has is almost as cheap as buying the individual components to changeover. If get one, I hope I can get used to it in time, I have about 3 mos. David how's your training going? What is next on your plan? I am trying to swim a lot right now, I have to pay the price. I might be able to shave off more time elsewhere within my biking/running but I will not really feel like a triathlete until I get the swim in place. I have been swimming with our masters group and plan on doing one long swim per week by myself. In the master's group I find myself (along with almost everyone else in the pool) putting on fins to hit the intervals. I do focus a lot on my stroke (catchup/glide and pull) but I rely too much on my legs for the speed. How did you get so fast? Master's group or individual focus? |
| 2008-08-14 2:43 PM in reply to: #1603602 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! if you get set up properly on tri bike you'll wonder why you waited so long to do so;-) As for the swimming, i have never swam with a group, and can count the times on one hand i have swam with other people this season. i've been swimming for just over 2 years now ( i knew how to "swim" before tris, but nothing real). first two seasons i ave around 2-4k in the pool a week total, just farting around. saw some results, made it mid pack on the swim. in may of this year i started swimming more, around 5-6 days a week and 15-20k total, and saw HUGE gains. for what its worth i think frquency is more important to an extent than volume, i would rather see someone in the pool 4-5 days a week doing 1500 a time than 3 days and twice the volume. i feel that being in the pool more is going to help a weaker swimmer much more than just total volume. deff get some help with your stroke at first though even if you are going to swim on your own after that. as far as fins go, i dont use them, i know a loto f epople that do but i think that if you need them to hit the times, just slowing down and swimming at your level is going to help the most. although for a lot of people swimming with others is going to help the most (i would say still try an mix it up though, so you are not killing yourself to keep up all the time). I do a lot of pulling in my warm ups and useally about 1/4 of my harder stuff as a pull set, as runners/cyclists we tent to miss out on some upper body work and this has helped with swimming a lot. |
| 2008-08-14 3:01 PM in reply to: #1604215 |
| Fishers, IN | Subject: RE: Newbz'z group is FULL!!!!!! I think I need to find the right balance between masters and just swimming. I think you are right and it is logical that when something is so form/technique oriented, frequency is the most important thing. One's focus only goes so far. Swmming fast, it quickly goes to swimming fast and not technique, but even for too long of a duration it will also. I pledge (don't hold me to it cause I still go to the pool begrugdingly) to go 4-5 times a week between now and Nov. Let's see how things progress. I am going for the tri bike! I have a son vying for my aluminum Specialized Allez already -this just frees it up for him and takes care of my tri need simultaneously! (Now that I have convinced myself, let's see how that flies). Can you imagine being married this long and having to go through that sort of rationalization. This is what I can add to the group, ways of dealing with the spouse-the department of self rationalization and sales. Oh well, I hope everyone's trainin is going well. There are a lot of races coming up. Greg |
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