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Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. (Page 24)
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 2010-03-03 6:06 PM in reply to: #2705697 |
Veteran  526   Richmond |  Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed.That makes sense. I tried to adjust my speed today on the treadmill on a longer run to keep my HR in top of Z2 and out of lower Z3 and the mph difference was very minimal. I guess that's what Warren's coach saying, don't become a slave to the HRM. |
| 2010-03-03 8:08 PM in reply to: #2706000 |
Extreme Veteran 542 Pauls Valley, OK | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. mdfahy - 2010-03-03 6:06 PM That makes sense. I tried to adjust my speed today on the treadmill on a longer run to keep my HR in top of Z2 and out of lower Z3 and the mph difference was very minimal. I guess that's what Warren's coach saying, don't become a slave to the HRM. I agree with the "don't become a slave to the HRM" I like to use the HRM as a tool, but if I notice that running or cycling ceases to be fun, I'll just go by RPE and enjoy the scenery. It might not be optimal training for the body, but mental health has got to account for something. It can be a long training season, and we need to be careful not to burn out. Plus running in the "wrong zone" has got to be better for us than watching T.V. and eating bon bons.  |
| 2010-03-03 8:14 PM in reply to: #2555906 |
| NH | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. I think the zones are largely movable in that I really don't think you body totally switches what it's doing at the zone demarcations, so I'm sure it's fine to move a little into another zone even if you're targeting a particular zone. And even the zone definitions are pretty arbitrary. In Going Long, the zones seem pretty high. The top of Z2 is 90% LT for running. I don't have Friel's Triathlon Bible, but I think the Going Long zones are basically from that book. I'm thinking that regular testing of some sort every 4-6 weeks to verify that your training is having a desired effect is a pretty important aspect of the whole training plan. And of course the mental health argument is very valid - after all, why are we REALLY doing this? If I didn't really enjoy the training part, I wouldn't be able to get off the couch at all. Edited by wbayek 2010-03-03 8:20 PM |
| 2010-03-03 9:05 PM in reply to: #2704311 |
Elite 2423  | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. mdfahy - 2010-03-03 10:00 AM That's great, kill meeting boredom with the alphabet stretch, I love it! I ran in zone 2 yesterday and learned what RPE 3 really feels like! Question, what if my average HR was zone 2, but I crept into zone 3 (at same pace) for some of the time, actually a third of the time, but like 4 beats into zone 3? Is going by HR avg. ok or do you lower pace throughout workout to keep zone 2? HR is hard because it can vary on based on sleep, your overall health, up or down based on fatigue. Its nice to monitor and should be used as a tool but do not become a slave to it. Zones or ranges based on paces are better. Because like the bike where power=power, pace=pace (sort of because of hills). |
| 2010-03-03 9:11 PM in reply to: #2706180 |
Elite 2423 | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. wbayek - 2010-03-03 9:14 PM I think the zones are largely movable in that I really don't think you body totally switches what it's doing at the zone demarcations, so I'm sure it's fine to move a little into another zone even if you're targeting a particular zone. And even the zone definitions are pretty arbitrary. In Going Long, the zones seem pretty high. The top of Z2 is 90% LT for running. I don't have Friel's Triathlon Bible, but I think the Going Long zones are basically from that book. I'm thinking that regular testing of some sort every 4-6 weeks to verify that your training is having a desired effect is a pretty important aspect of the whole training plan. And of course the mental health argument is very valid - after all, why are we REALLY doing this? If I didn't really enjoy the training part, I wouldn't be able to get off the couch at all. I highly agree on the testing. 4-6 weeks in my mind is pretty ideal. On the rare occasion I get run at night, I feel at such peace or relaxed. Its rare I get the chance right now, but when I do, I am reminded how much I enjoy running at night. |
| 2010-03-04 10:59 AM in reply to: #2555906 |
Veteran 286 Orange, CA | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. I was noticing on the gym-bike last night that while doing Jorge-style intervals, I seemed to stay faster on the 'off' side of the interval than if I was just going steady. So I was thinking of trying something which I would never do on the run portion but as an experiment actually doing some intervals on the bike portion ...to see if I can breakthrough on bike speed a bit. Am I nuts and will fry my legs for the run? Has anyone tried that? |
| 2010-03-04 12:01 PM in reply to: #2707279 |
| NH | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. bfoyle - 2010-03-04 11:59 AM I was noticing on the gym-bike last night that while doing Jorge-style intervals, I seemed to stay faster on the 'off' side of the interval than if I was just going steady. So I was thinking of trying something which I would never do on the run portion but as an experiment actually doing some intervals on the bike portion ...to see if I can breakthrough on bike speed a bit. Am I nuts and will fry my legs for the run? Has anyone tried that? I didn't try that in my one and only sprint, but since it's a sprint I would guess you're ok. In my sprint, I felt like I held back way too much on the bike. In a sprint, I think it's pretty much hammer time on the bike if you're in good condition. |
| 2010-03-04 12:53 PM in reply to: #2707279 |
Master 1736 Midcoast Maine | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. bfoyle - 2010-03-03 11:59 PM I was noticing on the gym-bike last night that while doing Jorge-style intervals, I seemed to stay faster on the 'off' side of the interval than if I was just going steady. So I was thinking of trying something which I would never do on the run portion but as an experiment actually doing some intervals on the bike portion ...to see if I can breakthrough on bike speed a bit. Am I nuts and will fry my legs for the run? Has anyone tried that? My first thought was "race like you train"...but then you would in fact be racing as you train. You have a lot of races this season. If you feel comfortable with it - give it a shot! How hilly is the route? Would that negate the intervals? Interesting idea...I'd be interested in seeing how it goes. And no, I haven't tried this...I was just glad to finish  . |
| 2010-03-04 8:25 PM in reply to: #2707500 |
Elite 2423 | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. wbayek - 2010-03-04 1:01 PM bfoyle - 2010-03-04 11:59 AM I was noticing on the gym-bike last night that while doing Jorge-style intervals, I seemed to stay faster on the 'off' side of the interval than if I was just going steady. So I was thinking of trying something which I would never do on the run portion but as an experiment actually doing some intervals on the bike portion ...to see if I can breakthrough on bike speed a bit. Am I nuts and will fry my legs for the run? Has anyone tried that? I didn't try that in my one and only sprint, but since it's a sprint I would guess you're ok. In my sprint, I felt like I held back way too much on the bike. In a sprint, I think it's pretty much hammer time on the bike if you're in good condition. Yeah racing pretty close to your all out efforts. Going back to the original post, I think the reason for that is because you are warmed up. You steady efforts should still involve a warmup. Even if I am doing a tempo ride on the bike I still do 15-20min of WU time slowly building with some 30s efforts above what I plan to ride at. If not I struggle. |
| 2010-03-05 8:36 AM in reply to: #2555906 |
Veteran 526 Richmond | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. Good luck to everyone with races this weekend! GO TEAM! |
| 2010-03-05 9:27 AM in reply to: #2708721 |
| NH | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. aarondavidson - 2010-03-04 9:25 PM Yeah racing pretty close to your all out efforts. Going back to the original post, I think the reason for that is because you are warmed up. You steady efforts should still involve a warmup. Even if I am doing a tempo ride on the bike I still do 15-20min of WU time slowly building with some 30s efforts above what I plan to ride at. If not I struggle. Thanks Aaron. Looking back, I think I never warm up enough for outside rides. Do you do a warm up before sprints? How about long course races? Race smart this weekend everyone. |
| 2010-03-05 1:07 PM in reply to: #2555906 |
Expert 1246 West Grove, PA | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. Good luck with the races this weekend. Looking forward to hearing all about the podium finishes and crushed PR's! Everyone have a great weekend. We're supposed to hit 52 degrees on Sunday, so I may venture out for my first outside ride. |
| 2010-03-05 8:54 PM in reply to: #2709489 |
Elite 2423 | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. wbayek - 2010-03-05 10:27 AM aarondavidson - 2010-03-04 9:25 PM Yeah racing pretty close to your all out efforts. Going back to the original post, I think the reason for that is because you are warmed up. You steady efforts should still involve a warmup. Even if I am doing a tempo ride on the bike I still do 15-20min of WU time slowly building with some 30s efforts above what I plan to ride at. If not I struggle. Thanks Aaron. Looking back, I think I never warm up enough for outside rides. Do you do a warm up before sprints? How about long course races? Race smart this weekend everyone. For any runs (racing or training) yes. Triathlon not so much. I get some swimming in but that is it. At races you always see guys running or cycling prior. |
| 2010-03-05 8:54 PM in reply to: #2710297 |
Elite 2423 | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. billsorg - 2010-03-05 2:07 PM Good luck with the races this weekend. Looking forward to hearing all about the podium finishes and crushed PR's! Everyone have a great weekend. We're supposed to hit 52 degrees on Sunday, so I may venture out for my first outside ride. I want to get outside and ride. My goal is to ride outside at least 20 times this year. |
| 2010-03-06 3:16 PM in reply to: #2555906 |
| NH | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. I just had a GREAT long run. Went just over 10, and I felt great the whole run. Let's see those race reports everyone! |
| 2010-03-07 4:33 PM in reply to: #2555906 |
| NH | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. I have to vent just a little, so feel free to delete this from your brain when you're done reading it. Does anyone else have a crazy job? I work in engineering in a group we call the SWAT team. We do architecture and deployment engineering. Our job is typically pretty calm, but when things in the field go nuts and no one else can figure things out, we get called in. We're sort of like airline pilots - our jobs are often mostly calm and just watching and doing the same stuff, but when our expertise is really needed it can be crazy and quite stressful. Anyway, the past 8 days have been nuts - like near all nighters 6 of the past 8 nights. I have no energy today but really feel like I need to get a bike ride in or something. It's not so much the stress as the unpredictability of when these things come up. If a week like this happens near my 70.3, I'm screwed. I know there are some real heroes in here who deal with real stress like Ray. What do you all do when life gets in the way like this? I'm getting stressed about not being ready for the half marathon in a few weeks. Somehow I'm still getting my runs in, but no bikes and very little stretching/yoga. As I wrote in my last post, yesterday's long run was great, but I'm just ready to work at Burger King or something! |
| 2010-03-07 6:56 PM in reply to: #2712903 |
Veteran 286 Orange, CA | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. I hear ya, Warren, things go from entirely manageable to crazy busy without much notice. Good news is you have an outlet...others who don't exercise just let the stress go to their arteries ;-) On a side note, I would just like to thank everyone in this group for an awesome weekend of inspiration. You people are some active, htfu'ed, awesome virtual mentors / training partners. Keep up the great work! |
| 2010-03-07 7:17 PM in reply to: #2712903 |
Elite 2423 | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. The people who work for me, it is their job to resolve issues that our guests have. We have about 30k people walk through our doors, more on the weekends. Rarely is it stressful, but when there is a big mixup, it comes out of nowhere, the department that created it pretends it is not real or not their fault at first, and we have to resolve it. However, even though I am salaried, it is incredibly rare that I ever stay late. Are you in a position where you can leave? Where you say, that you have outstanding family obligations and it is not possible to stay late one night? I do not know how things are there, but most people understand. Edited by aarondavidson 2010-03-07 7:39 PM |
| 2010-03-08 7:06 AM in reply to: #2712903 |
Master 1736 Midcoast Maine | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. wbayek - 2010-03-07 5:33 AM Does anyone else have a crazy job? Anyway, the past 8 days have been nuts - like near all nighters 6 of the past 8 nights. I know there are some real heroes in here who deal with real stress like Ray. What do you all do when life gets in the way like this? The job I have now is very predictable...but I have worked in other jobs that were not so stress free. I agree with Bob - be thankful you have a stress-reliever (with exercise), and don't stress also about not fitting a workout in...you've got time before the half marathon and a lot of time before the HIM...if you have trained (mostly) consistently (and according to your logs - you have been training very consistently), you should be fine. The good news (from my perspective) is that you aren't in high-stress mode for multiple months on end. It is frustrating not getting the workouts in, but you should listen to your body as much as you can. If it is tired, the workout won't be as focused/effective as it could be when you are fresh. The other thing that is in your favor is it isn't a physically exhausting job (like Ray's)...I was a chef back in the day and I can't imagine working a full shift and then having the motivation to work out on top of that. Would it be reasonable to take an hour during the high stress times and do a short workout? You said you could fit your runs in...which is fantastic...maybe look at "scheduling" an hour each day during these intense work times for workouts...not a full-blown high-effort workout, but a cobweb-clearing workout? Best of luck - I hope it settles down a bit for you soon. |
| 2010-03-08 9:05 AM in reply to: #2712903 |
Expert 1246 West Grove, PA | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. wbayek - 2010-03-07 5:33 PM I have to vent just a little, so feel free to delete this from your brain when you're done reading it. Does anyone else have a crazy job? I work in engineering in a group we call the SWAT team. We do architecture and deployment engineering. Our job is typically pretty calm, but when things in the field go nuts and no one else can figure things out, we get called in. We're sort of like airline pilots - our jobs are often mostly calm and just watching and doing the same stuff, but when our expertise is really needed it can be crazy and quite stressful. Anyway, the past 8 days have been nuts - like near all nighters 6 of the past 8 nights. I have no energy today but really feel like I need to get a bike ride in or something. It's not so much the stress as the unpredictability of when these things come up. If a week like this happens near my 70.3, I'm screwed. I know there are some real heroes in here who deal with real stress like Ray. What do you all do when life gets in the way like this? I'm getting stressed about not being ready for the half marathon in a few weeks. Somehow I'm still getting my runs in, but no bikes and very little stretching/yoga. As I wrote in my last post, yesterday's long run was great, but I'm just ready to work at Burger King or something! Warren... It's easier said than done, but you shouldn't stress about the half mary. You just knocked out a 10 mile run and averaged 9 min miles. That's pretty darn impressive. I have no doubt that you could finish that half mary if it took place this weekend. When I start getting stressed about missing some workouts because of work, family (or yesterday, an impromptu party), I just try and keep things in perspective. I am training for something that 99% of the population could/would NEVER do. I am in better shape than 99% of the population. (I'm guessing at those 99% figures!) Missing one workout (or even 2 or 3) won't mean the difference between a podium finish and, say, 4th or 5th place, and I'm not counting on winning a race to put food on the table. I hope I'm not sounding preach-y, but sometimes us triathletes can be very (overly) critical on ourselves, but just remember the long-term good your doing for yourself and your family and how much fun this sport is! With that said, I'm very lucky in that I almost never have to work past 5 and I almost always can get to the Y at lunchtime for a workout. Being in the banking industry, it's nice to work "bankers hours"! |
| 2010-03-08 11:03 AM in reply to: #2555906 |
Elite 2423 | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. You can also treat it like a rest week. As long as you have been training consistently and get back, you will not lose much if any fitness. Fitness loses start in the 10-14 day range and you lose top-end speed first. So like others have said do not stress. |
| 2010-03-08 11:13 AM in reply to: #2555906 |
| NH | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. What everyone is saying is absolutely true. To Aaron, I can often get away, but sometimes it's impossible. But even when it's impossible to leave, I can usually work in a 45-60 minute period to either workout or go home for dinner or something - one of the benefits of working 5 minutes from home. Both options alleviate stress, though sometime dinner with three boys isn't the best stress relief... And I think it's true that I'm suffering from goal inflation - originally I signed up for the half to make sure I ran through the winter to improve my running base before the tri training starts for real. That goal is accomplished, so I guess the half marathon is already a success! Thanks for listening to my venting, now back to your regularly scheduled programming. How did all the races go? I saw Bob's sprint results on the race page - pretty impressive. How was your half marathon Rene? And how about your 5k Aaron? Did anyone else race this weekend? |
| 2010-03-08 11:56 AM in reply to: #2555906 |
Expert 694 WA | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. Here is my race report ---> Snake River Half Marathon |
| 2010-03-08 3:26 PM in reply to: #2714259 |
| NH | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. RunRene - 2010-03-08 12:56 PM Here is my race report ---> Snake River Half Marathon Unbelievable time! 7:06 miles, for 13 of them. Just wow. Great race. |
| 2010-03-09 8:07 AM in reply to: #2555906 |
Expert 1246 West Grove, PA | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. Rene... I just wrote pretty much this same thing in your race report, but... WOW! That is a TORRID pace. Congratulations on the PR. |
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