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Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread (Page 24)
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  2011-07-12 5:46 PM in reply to: #3111494 |
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| 2011-07-12 5:49 PM in reply to: #3593533 |
 over a barrier | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread I've been to the right of the ski jump twice in the first two rows and you'll swim about an extra 50-100 yds. I plan on starting at the buoy line and jumping right to the inside. The first turn is a log jam regardless of starting position unless you're a sub 55 guy. People were stopped and mooing..... |
| 2011-07-12 6:46 PM in reply to: #3583893 |
Pro 4608   Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread coredump - 2011-07-06 9:01 PM lisac957 - 2011-07-06 6:03 PM IdealMuse - 2011-06-29 12:45 PM Make sure you get in early though. I'm talking like 20 minutes. Otherwise you will get caught up in the bottle neck and will have a rough start... or worse not even in the water when the swim starts. Tread water for 20min before the start? Or float on your back for a bit. Or swim around. Or float in your wetsuit. Or hang on the ski jump. Or stand in the water by the shore. You don't have to do water polo style egg beater for 20 minutes.  Main thing is to be through the very narrow and crowded choke point that is the timing mat entryway into the water in enough time to get yourself into a good position for the start.
Couldn't agree with this more. In '09 I got in about 15-20 minutes pre start and just floated around, calmed the nerves. Last year I was much more chill at the start and almost didn't make it into the water before the start. People hesitate and a huge bottleneck forms. I basically got into the water and the gun went off, I didn't even have a chance to put my face in the water. You don't want to start an IM like that. |
| 2011-07-12 7:31 PM in reply to: #3111494 |
Elite 3687  | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread Is anyone here planning on doing the Endurance Nation training weekend in a couple of weeks? I'm thinking of it but have not decided yet. |
| 2011-07-12 8:12 PM in reply to: #3593614 |
Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread LazyMarathoner - 2011-07-12 6:46 PM coredump - 2011-07-06 9:01 PM lisac957 - 2011-07-06 6:03 PM IdealMuse - 2011-06-29 12:45 PM Make sure you get in early though. I'm talking like 20 minutes. Otherwise you will get caught up in the bottle neck and will have a rough start... or worse not even in the water when the swim starts. Tread water for 20min before the start? Or float on your back for a bit. Or swim around. Or float in your wetsuit. Or hang on the ski jump. Or stand in the water by the shore. You don't have to do water polo style egg beater for 20 minutes. Main thing is to be through the very narrow and crowded choke point that is the timing mat entryway into the water in enough time to get yourself into a good position for the start.
... I basically got into the water and the gun went off, ... Gun? |
| 2011-07-12 9:51 PM in reply to: #3593533 |
| 90 miles south of Titletown, USA | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread Fred Doucette - 2011-07-12 5:46 PM Hey question about starting the swim wide to the right? Is it really crowded there? Is it a lot longer to swim on that side part on the outside? Us the congestion better after the first turn? I started darn near on the rocks in '09 because I couldn't afford to take contact to the ribs or jaw due to a bad fall about a week prior to the race. I got in the water plenty early and by tip-off I was worried due to all the congestion around me. That said, I stayed out there (probably 30-40 yards off the buoy line) for the whole swim and it was extremely clean. I'm sure it cost me a couple of minutes, but it was well worth it in my situation (swam a 1:14:xx). I plan on doing the same thing this year but pushing the pace for the first few hundred while things sort out. If you're willing to get the heart rate up for the first few hundred I think it's a good way to go to get ahead of the pack. Otherwise, I would get to the inside and deal with the mass at the first couple of buoys. FWIW, i'm hoping to be between 1:05/1:10 this year so i'm pretty much MOP. |
| 2011-07-12 10:18 PM in reply to: #3593845 |
| Veteran 118 Skokie, IL | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread bossfan - 2011-07-12 9:51 PM Fred Doucette - 2011-07-12 5:46 PM Hey question about starting the swim wide to the right? Is it really crowded there? Is it a lot longer to swim on that side part on the outside? Us the congestion better after the first turn? I started darn near on the rocks in '09 because I couldn't afford to take contact to the ribs or jaw due to a bad fall about a week prior to the race. I got in the water plenty early and by tip-off I was worried due to all the congestion around me. That said, I stayed out there (probably 30-40 yards off the buoy line) for the whole swim and it was extremely clean. I'm sure it cost me a couple of minutes, but it was well worth it in my situation (swam a 1:14:xx). I plan on doing the same thing this year but pushing the pace for the first few hundred while things sort out. If you're willing to get the heart rate up for the first few hundred I think it's a good way to go to get ahead of the pack. Otherwise, I would get to the inside and deal with the mass at the first couple of buoys. FWIW, i'm hoping to be between 1:05/1:10 this year so i'm pretty much MOP. No offense, but a 1:05 is not MOP, unless I have no understanding of the term. It would be around ~250 out of ~2500 people which is top 10%. Even a 1:14 is ~730 which is top 30% which is maybe where MOP begins. |
| 2011-07-12 10:27 PM in reply to: #3583893 |
| Master 1322 Chicago | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread coredump - 2011-07-06 8:01 PM lisac957 - 2011-07-06 6:03 PM IdealMuse - 2011-06-29 12:45 PM Make sure you get in early though. I'm talking like 20 minutes. Otherwise you will get caught up in the bottle neck and will have a rough start... or worse not even in the water when the swim starts. Tread water for 20min before the start? Or float on your back for a bit. Or swim around. Or float in your wetsuit. Or hang on the ski jump. Or stand in the water by the shore. You don't have to do water polo style egg beater for 20 minutes. Main thing is to be through the very narrow and crowded choke point that is the timing mat entryway into the water in enough time to get yourself into a good position for the start. I just very gently floated to the position I wanted to start at. Took no energy at all and was fairly relaxing... and that took up most of the waiting time. |
| 2011-07-13 6:20 AM in reply to: #3593845 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2011-07-13 8:04 AM in reply to: #3594027 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread Fred Doucette - 2011-07-13 6:20 AM bossfan - 2011-07-12 10:51 PM Fred Doucette - 2011-07-12 5:46 PM Hey question about starting the swim wide to the right? Is it really crowded there? Is it a lot longer to swim on that side part on the outside? Us the congestion better after the first turn? I started darn near on the rocks in '09 because I couldn't afford to take contact to the ribs or jaw due to a bad fall about a week prior to the race. I got in the water plenty early and by tip-off I was worried due to all the congestion around me. That said, I stayed out there (probably 30-40 yards off the buoy line) for the whole swim and it was extremely clean. I'm sure it cost me a couple of minutes, but it was well worth it in my situation (swam a 1:14:xx). I plan on doing the same thing this year but pushing the pace for the first few hundred while things sort out. If you're willing to get the heart rate up for the first few hundred I think it's a good way to go to get ahead of the pack. Otherwise, I would get to the inside and deal with the mass at the first couple of buoys. FWIW, i'm hoping to be between 1:05/1:10 this year so i'm pretty much MOP.My thought is to start wide for the first turn or 2 and then eventually head closer to the buoy lines. I just know that in the first 15 minutes that I need to avoid as much of the panick attack feeling of congestion as I can. Why didn't you ever head in a bit closer, was it really crowded even on the 2nd loop?? If you're a very strong swimmer (I haven't looked into your per 100 yds), get near the front; otherwise, it's a madhouse. |
| 2011-07-13 9:03 AM in reply to: #3594027 |
| 90 miles south of Titletown, USA | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread Fred Doucette - 2011-07-13 6:20 AM bossfan - 2011-07-12 10:51 PM Fred Doucette - 2011-07-12 5:46 PM Hey question about starting the swim wide to the right? Is it really crowded there? Is it a lot longer to swim on that side part on the outside? Us the congestion better after the first turn? I started darn near on the rocks in '09 because I couldn't afford to take contact to the ribs or jaw due to a bad fall about a week prior to the race. I got in the water plenty early and by tip-off I was worried due to all the congestion around me. That said, I stayed out there (probably 30-40 yards off the buoy line) for the whole swim and it was extremely clean. I'm sure it cost me a couple of minutes, but it was well worth it in my situation (swam a 1:14:xx). I plan on doing the same thing this year but pushing the pace for the first few hundred while things sort out. If you're willing to get the heart rate up for the first few hundred I think it's a good way to go to get ahead of the pack. Otherwise, I would get to the inside and deal with the mass at the first couple of buoys. FWIW, i'm hoping to be between 1:05/1:10 this year so i'm pretty much MOP.My thought is to start wide for the first turn or 2 and then eventually head closer to the buoy lines. I just know that in the first 15 minutes that I need to avoid as much of the panick attack feeling of congestion as I can. Why didn't you ever head in a bit closer, was it really crowded even on the 2nd loop?? In my situation a couple of years ago I got into a nice, easy rhythm and just elected to stay way out. If I wasn't so concerned about getting kicked or punched in the mouth and ribs I would have definitely gradually made my way towards the buoy line. The second loop wasn't that congested, I just couldn't afford to take the chance and was so comfortable where I already was. This year my thought is to start working my way back towards the line after the second buoy. The backstretch (between 2-3, parallel to shore) can still be fairly thick, but it definitely starts to sort itself out. This is the only IM I have ever done so I don't have anything to compare it to, but if you wind up in the middle of the mass (which I did in my first in '06) it's hand-to-hand combat for the first few hundred...not a good way to start the day. If you're a strong swimmer I would make sure that you're in the water early and in the first couple of rows...and hold your ground there because there are always folks looking to infringe. One thing I have noticed from watching this race from Monona Terrace over the years is that inside the buoy line has gotten much more congested. More and more folks go in with that strategy every year. I would definitely choose inside over the tenderloin of the mass, but would start outside as my first option...less contact, lower exertion, IMO. |
| 2011-07-13 9:28 AM in reply to: #3111494 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2011-07-13 9:30 AM in reply to: #3594308 |
| over a barrier | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread Fred Doucette - 2011-07-13 9:28 AM Are we allowed to swim inside the buoy line as long as we are outside for rounding turns? Yes. You only need to 'go wide' at the four corners. For those of you that haven't taken part in mass start with deep water. About 3 mins or so you'll want to move from a vertical position of bobbing to floating on your stomach sculling with your arms. A lot of the congestion comes from 2500 people taking up 1 foot of space to the cannon going off and now everyone is horizontal and trying to take up the same 6 feet of space. By going horizontal you'll keep people off you initially at the cannon. Edited by running2far 2011-07-13 9:35 AM |
| 2011-07-13 9:31 AM in reply to: #3594128 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2011-07-13 9:36 AM in reply to: #3111494 |
| over a barrier | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread Only turn 1 and 2 are bad.....after the returning all straight away the masses will be strung out. Turn 2 you can't see anything as its directly into the sun. |
| 2011-07-13 5:55 PM in reply to: #3111494 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2011-07-13 6:57 PM in reply to: #3595366 |
| Veteran 225 | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread Fred Doucette - 2011-07-13 5:55 PM Hey running2far, what time roughly are you aiming to swim in??
What would roughly 1:36-40/100 be on swim time? And...this will be my first mass start I am still wondering where I should start. After reading about starting wide and it being somewhat open I am thinking this might be the right thing to do. Edited by Decatur217 2011-07-13 6:58 PM |
| 2011-07-13 8:22 PM in reply to: #3594312 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread Fred Doucette - 2011-07-13 9:31 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-07-13 9:04 AM for me I'm ok strong, 1:05ish, but not strong enough to get away from the masses. Honestly I M just trying to figure out a strategy for the first couple of turns as by then I'm sure it will even out a bit. I tend to get pretty jacked and hyperventilate at the mass start. Again I'm thinking really wide and then work in after turn #2?Fred Doucette - 2011-07-13 6:20 AM bossfan - 2011-07-12 10:51 PM Fred Doucette - 2011-07-12 5:46 PM Hey question about starting the swim wide to the right? Is it really crowded there? Is it a lot longer to swim on that side part on the outside? Us the congestion better after the first turn? I started darn near on the rocks in '09 because I couldn't afford to take contact to the ribs or jaw due to a bad fall about a week prior to the race. I got in the water plenty early and by tip-off I was worried due to all the congestion around me. That said, I stayed out there (probably 30-40 yards off the buoy line) for the whole swim and it was extremely clean. I'm sure it cost me a couple of minutes, but it was well worth it in my situation (swam a 1:14:xx). I plan on doing the same thing this year but pushing the pace for the first few hundred while things sort out. If you're willing to get the heart rate up for the first few hundred I think it's a good way to go to get ahead of the pack. Otherwise, I would get to the inside and deal with the mass at the first couple of buoys. FWIW, i'm hoping to be between 1:05/1:10 this year so i'm pretty much MOP.My thought is to start wide for the first turn or 2 and then eventually head closer to the buoy lines. I just know that in the first 15 minutes that I need to avoid as much of the panick attack feeling of congestion as I can. Why didn't you ever head in a bit closer, was it really crowded even on the 2nd loop?? If you're a very strong swimmer (I haven't looked into your per 100 yds), get near the front; otherwise, it's a madhouse. 1:05"ish" is UNGODLY fast in my eyes, but, is that what you can sustain in OW for 2.4 miles (depending on choppiness and such)? |
| 2011-07-13 8:38 PM in reply to: #3595366 |
| over a barrier | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread Fred Doucette - 2011-07-13 5:55 PM Hey running2far, what time roughly are you aiming to swim in?? Swam a 1:05 something in 2009 starting wide, I would be happy with 1:03 |
| 2011-07-14 3:14 AM in reply to: #3594308 |
| Master 1322 Chicago | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread Fred Doucette - 2011-07-13 9:28 AM Are we allowed to swim inside the buoy line as long as we are outside for rounding turns? I don't think they used to care, but last year we were told not to swim inside them. That being said I saw plenty of people do it so I think they discourage it but aren't going to do anything about it. |
| 2011-07-14 6:07 AM in reply to: #3595499 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Fred Doucette 2011-07-14 6:09 AM |
| 2011-07-14 6:11 AM in reply to: #3595695 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2011-07-14 8:44 AM in reply to: #3111494 |
| Expert 1159 Charlotte, NC | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread I'm following Finke's 30 week competitive plan and, for the first time, this week's training has felt like a bit of a chore. Each morning, I've gotten up early as usual and my first thought has been something along the lines of, "oh, no - no more training"! This morning the thought of an hour and a half interval trainer ride almost had me turning over and going back to sleep. Anyone else feeling similar? |
| 2011-07-14 11:37 AM in reply to: #3595746 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread Fred Doucette - 2011-07-14 6:07 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-07-13 9:22 PM its about the time I have swum lake placid in for the last 3 years, so I think it will be sustainable at Wisconsin. I actually have swum a lot better this year but don't plan on going too hard for the swim part. Eta 1:05 is total time, not my per 100 pace....Fred Doucette - 2011-07-13 9:31 AM 1stTimeTri - 2011-07-13 9:04 AM for me I'm ok strong, 1:05ish, but not strong enough to get away from the masses. Honestly I M just trying to figure out a strategy for the first couple of turns as by then I'm sure it will even out a bit. I tend to get pretty jacked and hyperventilate at the mass start. Again I'm thinking really wide and then work in after turn #2?Fred Doucette - 2011-07-13 6:20 AM bossfan - 2011-07-12 10:51 PM Fred Doucette - 2011-07-12 5:46 PM Hey question about starting the swim wide to the right? Is it really crowded there? Is it a lot longer to swim on that side part on the outside? Us the congestion better after the first turn? I started darn near on the rocks in '09 because I couldn't afford to take contact to the ribs or jaw due to a bad fall about a week prior to the race. I got in the water plenty early and by tip-off I was worried due to all the congestion around me. That said, I stayed out there (probably 30-40 yards off the buoy line) for the whole swim and it was extremely clean. I'm sure it cost me a couple of minutes, but it was well worth it in my situation (swam a 1:14:xx). I plan on doing the same thing this year but pushing the pace for the first few hundred while things sort out. If you're willing to get the heart rate up for the first few hundred I think it's a good way to go to get ahead of the pack. Otherwise, I would get to the inside and deal with the mass at the first couple of buoys. FWIW, i'm hoping to be between 1:05/1:10 this year so i'm pretty much MOP.My thought is to start wide for the first turn or 2 and then eventually head closer to the buoy lines. I just know that in the first 15 minutes that I need to avoid as much of the panick attack feeling of congestion as I can. Why didn't you ever head in a bit closer, was it really crowded even on the 2nd loop?? If you're a very strong swimmer (I haven't looked into your per 100 yds), get near the front; otherwise, it's a madhouse. 1:05"ish" is UNGODLY fast in my eyes, but, is that what you can sustain in OW for 2.4 miles (depending on choppiness and such)? Either time is still UNGODLY fast in my eyes! Here's to hoping to at least say "Hi" to you while you're around. |
| 2011-07-14 12:19 PM in reply to: #3595957 |
| Master 1411 Lexington, KY | Subject: RE: Ford Ironman Wisconsin : Official Thread Patrick E - 2011-07-14 9:44 AM I'm following Finke's 30 week competitive plan and, for the first time, this week's training has felt like a bit of a chore. Each morning, I've gotten up early as usual and my first thought has been something along the lines of, "oh, no - no more training"! This morning the thought of an hour and a half interval trainer ride almost had me turning over and going back to sleep. Anyone else feeling similar? Yes! Getting out of bed is tough enough. Following it up with a tough session on legs that are already half-dead isn't a cheery thought. On the bright side, only about 6 weeks to go... |
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