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2011-01-11 2:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
...and there it is!

Thank you sir.


2011-01-11 5:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
jhouse4 - 2011-01-10 3:13 PM

oregonducks - 2011-01-11 1:52 PM
jhouse4 - 2011-01-11 11:26 AM

lisac957 - 2011-01-11 11:11 AM
Tri Sam - 2011-01-11 10:58 AM

I guess I think I'm missing something because I need to swim so much slower to swim using bilateral breathing and I want to be able to swim at least as fast as when I'm single-side breathing.



This is what I don't get. If it makes you significantly slower, why do it? Why sacrifice the time/speed for something that is not technically "wrong" at all?

I'll say it again... return on investment!

 

 

X2



I think there are several advantages to bilat breathing.  One is in races where weather / waves are a factor.  If you only know how to breath left, and that's where the waves are coming from - you're in trouble.  Also, I can get into a nice rhythm breathing every third stroke - for me - breathing every stroke is too much.  Most importantly, in an open water swim, I think you swim a straighter line breathing bilaterally which ultimately can save time and energy.  It balances out the muscles used, and allows you to roll to both sides, not just the side that you breath on. 

 I don't think you need to do it in every circumstance, but as Tri-Sam says - good skill to have.  And just because it slows you down initially doesn't mean it can't make you faster in the long run.  (I'm not saying it does, but I think it can help your swimming). 

 

<!--[endif]--> 

quote by Jhouse4 - I disagree... I have swam in all sorts of water from the San Francisco bay to the smallest of lakes, waves are waves and will affect breathing no matter what side you are breathing from.

 

I have swam competitively for a majority of my entire life and I have never turned my head to the left in competition and only do it in open water to see if someone is hitching a ride on my left side. I don’t practice it and I think if someone told me that I needed to do it at this point in my life I would laugh and them and tell them to pound sand.  Improving your efficiency in the water is going to your best return. Hands down. 

Oh and I am a swim coach both USA Swimming and ASCA Level II  


question coach- does practicing bilateral breathing while working on technique help improve the hip rotation from the non-breathing side? reason I ask is because I have a hard time getting left elbow high.

In re: to bolded above- what do you do? kick 'em? or you just mess with their pace? (speed up/slow down, speed up and so forth) just curious.



Edited by golfpro 2011-01-11 5:44 PM
2011-01-12 8:56 AM
in reply to: #3293426

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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread

Golfpro:

Sorry for the delay in response, in my opinion bilateral breathing will not improve hip rotation. I say this because 99% of the swimmers that come to me breathe incorrectly and it causes a slew of other issues. If I were your coach I would have you doing skill drills for each specific area one at a time. Doing too many at once and one is going to loose out.

For improvement of hip rotation, I would have you do one or all of the following:

Count drill (can be done with any number)

Kick on your side for a count of N kicks (or counts). Take one full arm stroke to rotate to your other side for another N kicks, and continue through the swim. While on your side, focus on correct body position. When executing the switch, begin by lifting the elbow of the arm on the water surface (top arm) and recovering it over the line of your body. The extended arm (bottom arm) stays extended to maintain a streamlined body position, until the elbow of the recovery arm has passed over your head. Then execute a quick switch to your opposite side. Use core body muscles to rotate, while maintaining a hold of the water with your bottom arm.

Gallop Drill

This is the same as the count drill, but you take three strokes as you switch from side to side. Focus on long strokes and quick hips in these three strokes, completely rotating from one side to the other. Maintain great body position while kicking on your side.

Stroke and Hold Drill

Try to swim normally EXCEPT when starting the pull. One arm should be extended forward and the other at your side. At this point, freeze your arms in place but continue kicking, and "roll onto" the arm that is extended forward. Count six kicks in that position before resuming the pull.

Zipper Drill

Swim freestyle in your regular way and as you recover your left arm, drag your left thumb along your rib-cage making sure to keep your elbow high and to stay on your side. The motion is as you were pulling up a zipper running from the top of your hips to your arm pit. When your hand goes past your arm pit, finish the stroke and rotate your body to the other side. Do the same with your right arm. Make sure to maintain a smooth transition from side to side.

For breathing, I would have you do this:

Swim 500 yards/meters do the first 50 breathing every 3 strokes, the next 50 every 5 and then the third 50 every 7 then back down 5 then 3 etc.

To work on your high elbow issue, I would have you do one of the following drills:

Fingertip drag:

During the recovery, drag your fingertips along the surface of the water.

Zipper Drill Above

Chicken wing:

I don’t call it this, my kids do, on your recovery touch your thumb to your shoulder.

Sorry to cut this short but I have to run to a meeting, if you have any questions feel free to PM me.

Oh and to answer your other question, I can’t swim straight outside of a pool, so when someone is hitching a ride, they are taking the long route. Sometimes, I will slow down and let them do the work for a while other times I will just gun it and go it alone. 

 



Edited by jhouse4 2011-01-12 8:56 AM
2011-01-12 1:43 PM
in reply to: #3142609

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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread

Hey all. In regards to the breathing issue I agree with most of the comments saying do what is comfortable for you, but I also believe it is important to have a way to make sure you are balancing out your stroke. Maybe I am just inconsistent, but there are definitely days when I can't find my stroke or get into a good rhythm, and if that day is race day, bilateral breathing helps me balance things out and get into that groove. However, I do feel the oxygen debt you are talking about so I really don't like bilateral breathing. Solution: in training I use a snorkel at least once every practice. A snorkel (such as this one) allows me to focus on my technique and balance like no other tool and is probably responsible for half of my improvement (in freestyle, at least) during my college swimming years. Obviously you can't take your snorkel with you into the race, and there isn't really an opportunity for a swimming warm up at IMLOU, so I recommend having some other way to find your groove (ie. bilateral breathing).
Just a side note, I absolutely hated the snorkel when I first started using it and thought my coach was an idiot when he gave it to me. But once I got comfortable doing flip turns with it I took off, now I never do a pull set without a snorkel. Pulling with it really allows me to isolate my upper body and hip movement without having to think about anything else. And no, I don't work for the snorkel company, I just really love what it has done for meCool

2011-01-12 1:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
I don't work for a snorkle company either, I just play one on t.v.
Just kidding. Good thoughts. Good points all. Thank you for contributing you ideas.
Nothing like stirring the pot eh?
2011-01-12 2:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
Actually, you can take your snorkel.  They are allowed by USAT rules.  Ironman & Ironman 70.3 races are USAT sanctioned.  In some cases, Ironman rules differ from USAT rules, but they have agreed to the differences.  These differences do not affect snorkel use......they are allowed.


2011-01-13 5:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
japarker24 - 2011-01-12 3:41 PM Actually, you can take your snorkel.  They are allowed by USAT rules.  Ironman & Ironman 70.3 races are USAT sanctioned.  In some cases, Ironman rules differ from USAT rules, but they have agreed to the differences.  These differences do not affect snorkel use......they are allowed.


No kiddin? That is actually pretty funny. Still, sighting might be tough when I don't have a black line to keep me straight. I probably won't be whipping it out on race day. Then again, I gotta pick my head up to sight either way...

2011-01-13 5:57 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
ANTOTHER INTERVIEW WITH PROSPECTIVE IMLOU ATHLETE POSTED:

CHECK OUT MY BLOG FOR AN INTERESTING INTERVIEW WITH GO-GETTER THOMAS TRONCOSO!

2011-01-13 5:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
OH...Thomas is also known as golfpro.
2011-01-13 11:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
Tri Sam - 2011-01-13 6:57 AM ANTOTHER INTERVIEW WITH PROSPECTIVE IMLOU ATHLETE POSTED:

CHECK OUT MY BLOG FOR AN INTERESTING INTERVIEW WITH GO-GETTER THOMAS TRONCOSO!



Thanks for keeping up with these.  Fun reads!
2011-01-13 12:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
Tri Sam - 2011-01-12 6:57 AM ANTOTHER INTERVIEW WITH PROSPECTIVE IMLOU ATHLETE POSTED:

CHECK OUT MY BLOG FOR AN INTERESTING INTERVIEW WITH GO-GETTER THOMAS TRONCOSO!



Nicely done Sam-  


2011-01-13 12:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
TS: What song or artist would you love to hear blaring at mile 20 in the Ironman run?
TT: Mama Said Knock You Out! (L.L. Cool J.).


LOVE IT!
2011-01-13 12:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
Thank you for the kudos...and yes, the tune was a strong selection.
2011-01-13 12:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
FINALLY!!!

I have been cleared to workout. So off we gooooooooooo

Now where did i put my goggles?


Edited by rwsads 2011-01-13 12:53 PM
2011-01-13 1:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
rwsads - 2011-01-13 12:40 PM FINALLY!!!

I have been cleared to workout. So off we gooooooooooo

Now where did i put my goggles?


Such good news!  Congrats. 
Another thought also comes to mine - careful what you wish for.  Just kidding.  Glad to have you back on the roads with us! 
2011-01-13 1:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
rwsads - 2011-01-12 1:40 PM FINALLY!!!

I have been cleared to workout. So off we gooooooooooo

Now where did i put my goggles?


Glad to have you back Robert. 


2011-01-13 2:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
Robert- Good for you. Welcome back.
2011-01-13 4:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
Welcom back, Robert!
2011-01-13 10:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
Nice little pool workout today. 2000yrds.
200 warm
300 kick
500 pull
500 for TM @ 90% effort in 7:51
300 kick
200 warm
I'll take 7:51 for the 500 for mid Jan, only 20-25 sec off my mid-season best of 2010.
2011-01-14 6:46 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
Cube...Good stuff!

It's 7:40-ish here and I swam 1500, lifted, and ran 3 mi this morning. Love it!
Running in the dark with snow everywhere eluminating my surroundings was fantastic.
I had a headlamp and reflective vest, but I kept the lamp off unless a car was coming.

I was supposed to do a 500 yd. TT this morning, but I lost count midway through. Doh!!! I'll try again Monday.

Happy Friday. Peace.
2011-01-14 10:04 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
Did a great swim workout at Masters last night; thought you might be interested:

500 WU
8 X 25     Drills
7 X 50     Free
6 X 75     IM
5 X 100   Free
4 X 150   100 IM + 50 Free
3 X 200   Pull, Kick, Pull
2 X 250   Free 

Total = 3,550

This workout just seemed to flow well, the sets were getting shorter even though the distance was getting higher.  The whole group seemed to like it, thought I would share




2011-01-14 10:12 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
Ya'll have great memories to remember the Masters Swim sets!
I did my very first Masters Swim last night and I was the only one there! It was pretty awesome.

What I can remember - I know the total was 2400 cause the coach added it up for me

WU: 200 swim, 200 pull, 200 kick
Drills: 4x25 streamline kick on back
Drills: ?x25 streamline kick on side, alternating sides
Drills: ?x50 same as last
Maybe something else in here?
Drills: 8x75 (25 side streamline, 50 swim)
2x300 pull

 
2011-01-14 10:21 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
I just recently moved and the Y near my house as an EARLY masters class twice a week.  Once I get my swim fitness back I'll be going.  They leave their workouts on a whiteboard, and I'm just not where I need to be for them yet.  They are doing 3300-3500 in a 60 minute workout.  

I look forward to it though and I am targeting mid to late Feb to be back there.  I took the fall off from Swimming entirely, so... thus the loss of my 2010 IM swim fitness

That said, I had a great swi workout today... I just logged it and now i can't remember if it was a 2500 or a 2600!? 
2011-01-14 10:24 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
lisac957 - 2011-01-13 12:30 PM
TS: What song or artist would you love to hear blaring at mile 20 in the Ironman run?
TT: Mama Said Knock You Out! (L.L. Cool J.).


LOVE IT!


Run This Town - Jay-Z

Not much of a Jay-Z fan typically, but been running to it lately and the beat works well for my cadence. 
2011-01-14 10:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread
sdanaher - 2011-01-13 11:24 AM
lisac957 - 2011-01-13 12:30 PM
TS: What song or artist would you love to hear blaring at mile 20 in the Ironman run?
TT: Mama Said Knock You Out! (L.L. Cool J.).


LOVE IT!


Run This Town - Jay-Z

Not much of a Jay-Z fan typically, but been running to it lately and the beat works well for my cadence. 


I wrote LL's song because it was the first one that came to mind- I was going to use it for my 2010 video but had issues uploading it to youtube. I use a lot of motiontraxx- podsongs , he has high bpm's - great for speed w.outs run/bike. 
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