Swbkrun mentor group - Closed (Page 24)

No racing here, not for another week.  I'm really glad the days are getting longer.  It sure makes it easier to get out on the trails after work.  There's just something better about running in the daylight ;-)

I don't have much to add about the speed work, other that to explain why I don't do much--or any.  I've made the decision to keep working to go long instead of going fast, and my short runs have gotten faster just by default.  I also run trials, which include some hills.  It's a bit of speed work without feeling like I'm doing speed work.  I will occasionally do some strides or fartleks, but only when my body is feeling 100%, which is almost never.  Could be my age.

Two pieces of advice if you're just starting out.  1) Follow the 10% rule  2) Only do speed work if your body can handle it.  And to do that you have to LISTEN to your body and back off when needed.  

So far, I've gone from only being able to run for about 2.5 minutes, to running ultras and I've never been injured to the point that I had to stop running.  I've backed off and babied my body, but never stopped.  If you're competing to win then you might have an entirely different approach and maybe you don't mind risking injury and taking time off.  I want to participate, not sit on the sidelines  

Not racing.....been having some work done on my foot, so training has been sporadic.  That, and I can't seem to get my tush in the pool when there's ice on the pool deck and kickboards.  However, went out with my biking girls last night, and somewhere around our second or thrid drink, we all realized that we only have 8 months before IMLT.  Yikes.  So, as soon as I return from my TNT ski trip on the 27th, and have my last(!) foot destroying appt on the 28th, training BEGINS FOR REAL!!!!!!

I don't do speedwork, other than fartleks.  Too injury prone.

What's up with the foot?

I believe that the shorter higher intensity workouts are the best bang for the buck but not everyone agrees.  That is my disclaimer and I hope more chime in for you on this advice.  That said, 400 and 800 meter repeats are my prefered speed work for a 5k.  You can use the Mcmillin Pace Calculator to estimate your times for each.  Start easy and work up to more reps.  These are usually track workouts and they are a killer!  Make sure you warm up and cool down if you are going to try them. 

It was with 2L Coaching Suzy.  Coach Lowell took me to the edge.  I had many workouts that I simply failed at, which taught me the most.  It was my introduction to speed work.

Weird thing....a granulated something or other.  Treating it like a wart, apparently, so doc is digging it at it, and applying some sort of acid junk.  Hurts like HE*L!!!  Need to get to a level to figure out if there's rheumatic nodule underneath it. Between my heel and arch.  Wimpy, but very painful to put weight on.  Which is an issue, since I'm still EATING like an Ironman!!

No racing for me. Good luck to our racers!

OK, I'll wade in on Suzy's question. I don't think there are any shortcuts to faster running. It takes consistency and time. I've been running for years, and I've steadily improved by running consistently and gradually increasing my mileage. When I started out, I ran all of my training runs too hard, and I was frequently sidelined by injuries. After reading a bunch of running threads here on BT, I decided to back off the pace and build my base by running more frequently. I built to running 5-6 days/wk, with most of those runs at an easy pace. I'd run a little faster on days I felt good, but I didn't push beyond what felt comfortable. After 2 years of building to 40+ mpw, I'm just now starting to incorporate speed work (track intervals and harder threshold runs).

I think most beginning runners can make huge improvements just by running consistently and running more without running hard. The problem with speed work is that it increases your risk of injury, particularly if you don't have the base to support it, and being injured keeps you from running consistently and running more.

I will now pass the soapbox on to someone else.  

Amen, sister.

Thank you everyone for your input.  Like I said, I'm new to this so any and all help is appreciated.  We are running an "Elvis Birthday Bash" this Saturday - a 5k.  Should be fun.  We will be dressing up as Elvis (hopefully) I don't think our times will be that great as it's going to be hard running in a polyester white spangly jumpsuit!  Lol!  We also have our 2nd swim lesson tonite...working on technique.  Again, thanks for the helpful advice. 

Yes, we (Michelle, Candice and I) are running the 5k Elvis Birthday Bash Dash Saturday. I am honestly looking forward to the fried peanut butter and bannana sandwiches post race. LOL!! I am hoping my time will improve more. If not that is okay, I was finally able to run a full 3.1 last night without stopping and walking, then went and rode the bike for 3 miles (while trying to stay put on the seat and no slip off). 

I am not as terribly concerned with time/speed as much as endurance/distance. I know that with those my time will imporve. I have seen that since my first race in November. It is all about learning how your body responds to training.

Insert lecture here: Michelle needs to remember that she is still healing, she has been really sick, and it takes a while for the body to recoup. Give it time, girl!! You are doing awesome!! It is a blessing to be able to have some training buddies like you and Candice.

Cheryl

Can't let this go......... You might want to consider the effect of sweat on the "jumpsuit".  I've seen a few triathletes in white kits and it can get REAL ugly after awhile.......think wet t-shirt contest.  But, in triathlon, it's usually very hairy guys bent over on a bike wearing a sweaty white kit.  Ewwwwww!! 

My last comment I promise and I hope this is all taken as just good discussion.  Often the biggest mistakes are running slow workouts too fast and fast workouts too slow.  You are an accomplished runner for sure and I agree with what has worked for you.  I want to point out that you were not 5k training at 40 mpw.  Marathon training will improve your 5k time too but is not the most time efficient way to do so.

That's true, and a good point. I didn't mean to imply that someone has to be running that much before incorporating speed work, but I do think it's important to develop fitness first. A 5K may mean something different to experienced runners than it does to someone who is just starting out and is still challenged just to complete the distance. For those runners, I think getting faster is more about improving fitness than it is about speed. And I think think consistency is more important than intensity for developing fitness.

Want to ask me about cramping and nutrition? I have a soapbox for that, too.

ETA: btw Chet, I think it's great that we're having this kind of discussion on the MG and I don't take it personally when people have different opinions.

Yes, please!! I'd love to hear about that!!!

I'll second that I think just running more is a good path to running faster. Although I will say my marathon PR was done on low mileage, but I haven't tried to repeat that technique, so it's a sample size of one (well, two, since I did it with my BFF). But for newer runners, I'd vote for running more days/week if you can, even if they are short runs and incoporating run/walk. I feel like I recover so much better when I am running more frequently. When I'm only running 3-4x a week, I feel more soreness/stiffness from running. I, too, save speed work for when I have a solid base. All that said, I think I'm guilty of running too slowly much of the time. But I've also been blessed to be injury free (except for an injury resulting from a fall -- IMO that doesn't count as much), so I'll take that all for what it's worth! I'd rather run slower and run tomorrow than to give it all I have and be sidelined for a few days each week!

Hmmm....good point!  Ewww is right!!  Maybe we'll stick to the sideburns and sunglasses!    Anyway, should be fun.  No rain in sight for Saturday, which is a miracle here in southwest Washington...but cold!  ...and thanks for the lecture mom! (Cheryl) lol. 

I can weigh in on not wearing white!  An oly I was doing was supposed to be well over 100F so I thought a white tri top with built in white bra was the way to go to keep cooler.  Uhm, no.  I dowsed myself with H20 at every station.  I kept getting these looks and maybe a few smirks.  I saw a race photo of me that day and it was as if I was running sort of naked on top.  Not that it is much to look at, but still.  

Thanks to all of you for taking another stab and the intensity during running.  Different POVs, but some good info for our new MG members to consider when creating their own plans.

No racing here until the spring, but I did go for a 10 k the other day when it was a balmy 0C or 32 F for you folks south of the canadian border.

Also I'm still reeling form the Denver post season exit ;-(

i ran my first marathon 10 years ago.  i guess i was running for 4-5 years before that.  so i've been running for a little while anyways.  i've found one good workout is at the dinner table.  don't eat so much.  loose weight.  go faster. and getting rid of excess weight helps mitigate injuries to some extent.

i guess i've seen lots of talk about how to run and where and how fast.  all good stuff!  but i just think many of the bio's on the first few pages included something about wanting to lose weight.  and i hadn't seen that posted in this talk of getting faster, i may have missed it.  again though.. all good stuff.

and i like when julia stands on her soap box because i can look up her skirt and see her hynie, all bright and shiny.   you guys didn't know she doesn't wear underwear, did you.

No racing for me this weekend.

And thanks for the advice about the white tri top I will make sure not to wear one at all Or was that just meant for the woman ?

Ok I did a lot of speed work last year and a agree with all the advice. All depends on your current fitness. But I also think like anything else you can ease it into your workouts as long as you ramp up slowly.

My speed workouts consisted of one legged hops with opposite leg behind me on a stair, started with maybe five and worked up to 3 sets of 15. Also skipping with a jump rope for 60 seconds, again I didn't start with a lot, worked my way up to five sets. Also skipped around the field behind my house (did this early in the morning so no one could see me for up to a minute at a time and then jogged in between, legs up high and skip just like when you were a kid. Also did strides, 20 seconds. started slow and built up, worked on extending my stride and form, built up to six of them and walked back to the start.

This was a real nice workout for warming up and then finished by just a relaxed run in zone 2. Would not recommend the strides unless you are really warmed up, and if you are new with training go easy and build. This was a once a week workout during my base and build routine.

Bottom line for me was I think it made me faster and plan on starting them again probably next month.

I think a photo demonstration of this phenomenon is in order

I may have just channeled John's thoughts on this

No racing this weekend as well.   More training!!! 

To the question of the week....I think the one consistent workout was actually tuesday night track workouts with some of our Tri Club Members.  Mostly speed workouts at specified pace ranges depending on the race I was training for; during winter months it was probably training for a Half- Marathon.  Sometimes is was ladders 400, 800, 1200, 1600, 1200, 800, 400 with Jogs in between or specfiied number of 400's and 800's and 1600's or maybe straight sets of 800's. 

I'll admit they were hard and long, but I made so much improvement.  52.52 10K Split on my first Oly and consistent 26 min. 5K split on Sprint distances runs (Hilly ones).  My best Half-marathon was 1:57:---; exactly 9 min miles.  My goal was to break 2 hours.  No way I could do that now; last one in Eugene, OR was a 2:12:---.  However it wore on my knees and body too much.  I don't do the track workouts anymore, but do tempo runs and some intervals during my longer runs. 

Do you honestly think I bought that picture?  I only buy the ones where I look half way decent so I have very few. 

Regarding the workout I used to make me faster.   My first entry into anything remotely close to speed work were tempo runs.  I would start with about 10' and slowly week by week work my way up to a full hour.  Other than just steady miles in the bank, they had the biggest impact on my marathon performance without causing injury to the body.  For those just starting out, you can do them based on feel (should be uncomfortable, but at a pace you think you could hold for X minutes.  These are not like you are sprinting and breathless).