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Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! (Page 28)
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 2011-01-13 7:45 AM in reply to: #3296436 |
Master  3058    South Alabama |  Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED!Fred Doucette - 2011-01-13 6:35 AM I had a very nice swim this am. I am really enjoying the structure my coach is adding to the swim. I'm getting faster and liking the actual workout much more. Two questions for the group? 1. What's your training for today? 2. What is it about your training right now that you are enjoying the most? Have a great day  Short yoga/stretch session this morning then fairly easy bike with a few moderate intervals tonight on the rollers 1:00-1:15. Right now I am enjoying all of my training. I seem to be overcoming a few nagging injuries so I am happy to be training at close to full strength. About this time last year I really screwed up my hamstring and was unable to do any running or significant biking for several months. Have to agree on the structure in training being nice. I just started the "Finding Freestyle" swim program (thanks Kathy) and like the change it provides from my normal swim workouts. Always a tough balance-too much structure can seem restrictive or monotous and too little can cause me to lose focus. I tend to be more consistent with more structure. Randy |
| 2011-01-13 7:54 AM in reply to: #3296474 |
Master 2912  ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! jsiegs - 2011-01-13 8:16 AMJust tested and upped my FTP when i wasn't expecting it to go up. So my last couple workouts I'm seeing the average/xPower numbers and they're 10-20 W above what I'd been doing. Progress!! It's impossible not to enjoy seeing that! Awesome job on the FTP improvement! I think I am also seeing better numbers in training, but cannot say that I am too anxious to perform another FTP test anytime soon to confirm!Really nice work on the consistency everybody - lots of two-a-days and even some three-a-days in the group. I find all of your hard work and ability to "fit it in" around busy lives to be very motivational. Fred Doucette - 2011-01-13 7:35 AM I had a very nice swim this am. I am really enjoying the structure my coach is adding to the swim. X2 Fred. I had 4000+ last night and found it to actually be enjoyable. Tough, but enjoyable. The structure makes it both comprehesible and manageable - you just attack it bite-sized pieces and chew. I really look forward to my pool sessions these days. I would expand that to say this is true for the R&B structure that i am getting as well, but the swim is the biggest surprise.Today is a simple run with 40 minutes at endurance pace, should be about an hour or so total as it takes me a while to get warmed up. Work is about to go off the rails for the next 5 weeks - I hope I can get through it without dropping too much training. |
| 2011-01-13 8:00 AM in reply to: #3296436 |
Master 1402 Highlands Ranch | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Last night I'd planned to get up and swim this morning, but of course when the alarm went off more sleep seemed more important (I'm challenged to get at least 7 hours on a regular basis); so I'm allowing myself latitude and will swim Sat/Sun/Mon as its a holiday weekend. Tonight will be an hour on the trainer, plus a core session and stretching, hopefully there will be something interesting on TV. The thing I'm enjoying most in training is getting more comfortable running. I got a pair of Nike Free's in the fall, for the purpose of strengthening my feet and ankles and improving my moving posture, and it feels like its beginning to show. So far no PF recurrence, and my feet aren't sore the morning after a run the way the have been in the past. I expect to repeat an adaption cycle come springtime when I shift back to paved and unpaved trails outdoors, since right now all my running is on an indoor track. |
| 2011-01-13 8:02 AM in reply to: #3256949 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Did 40min on the trainer this morning, and will run on lunch - but wil be relegated to the treadmill at the gym this time. At the moment I think I'm just enjoying the fact that I'm adding in some volume that has been missing. Running is starting to come along which is good to see, and I'm really happy about continuing to try and increase my FTP/CP - although I know I'm in for alot of tough sessions through Jorge's program over the next few weeks. |
| 2011-01-13 8:04 AM in reply to: #3296328 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! jcb123 - 2011-01-13 2:04 AM Interesting discussion on IM run pace. How do you estimate your pace for the first IM? Did you use your open marathon time as a guide? Here is a chart that estimates what the range is for solid HIM or IM if you are well trained based on your VDot. Using a running race of 5K, 10K or 1/2 Mary you can figure out your VDot but most think the longer the race the more accurate the data. For those of you who have done IMs how does the chart line up? Are you in that 75-80% range of FT? Hard thing is fitness changes with training and we may have not done a running test close to HIM or IM. |
| 2011-01-13 8:10 AM in reply to: #3296436 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Fred Doucette - 2011-01-13 7:35 AM I had a very nice swim this am. I am really enjoying the structure my coach is adding to the swim. I'm getting faster and liking the actual workout much more. Two questions for the group? 1. What's your training for today? 2. What is it about your training right now that you are enjoying the most? Have a great day After I drop off kids at school due to delayed start, going to Y to run. Later I'll go back and do my swim with a portion on seeing which method of swimming I've been experimenting doing in Finding Freestyle is fastest. I enjoy the variety and mental engagement trying different things in Finding Freestyle; cycling is always enjoyable; running I have more underlying worry about injury and recovery. |
| 2011-01-13 9:19 AM in reply to: #3296564 |
| Member 26 Denmark | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! KathyG - 2011-01-13 3:04 PM jcb123 - 2011-01-13 2:04 AM Interesting discussion on IM run pace. How do you estimate your pace for the first IM? Did you use your open marathon time as a guide? Here is a chart that estimates what the range is for solid HIM or IM if you are well trained based on your VDot. Using a running race of 5K, 10K or 1/2 Mary you can figure out your VDot but most think the longer the race the more accurate the data. For those of you who have done IMs how does the chart line up? Are you in that 75-80% range of FT? Hard thing is fitness changes with training and we may have not done a running test close to HIM or IM. That is an interesting chart kathy. Based on my best 5k an HM time last year my VDOT is 49,1. Based on my marathon time last year my VDOT is 45,9. That gives me an IM marathon time between 3:50 and 4.24. But I expect to be in much better shape in july than I was last year. It would be interesting to hear from some of you experienced IM folks how you think this chart hold up. |
| 2011-01-13 11:10 AM in reply to: #3295096 |
Member 413 | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Fred Doucette - 2011-01-12 1:01 PM The last 48 hours was crazy busy for me and I get a little down whenever I have an injury. I'm hoping that this is just a little tightness, but training is pretty important in my life and even the POTENTIAL threat of missing training is a concern isn't it? So nice to be around like minded people! because I feel exactly the same way... I am really kicking myself this morning because I was supposed to go to the pool but decided I shouldn't becasue I dyed my hair yesterday... hairdresser had once told me not to swim for a week after color but of course I just ignored that, but figured I should at least give it a day  ... oh I bet you guys never have these problems!!!! Going to try run 7 miles later. |
| 2011-01-13 12:59 PM in reply to: #3296770 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! jcb123 - 2011-01-13 10:19 AM KathyG - 2011-01-13 3:04 PM jcb123 - 2011-01-13 2:04 AM Interesting discussion on IM run pace. How do you estimate your pace for the first IM? Did you use your open marathon time as a guide? Here is a chart that estimates what the range is for solid HIM or IM if you are well trained based on your VDot. Using a running race of 5K, 10K or 1/2 Mary you can figure out your VDot but most think the longer the race the more accurate the data. For those of you who have done IMs how does the chart line up? Are you in that 75-80% range of FT? Hard thing is fitness changes with training and we may have not done a running test close to HIM or IM. That is an interesting chart kathy. Based on my best 5k an HM time last year my VDOT is 49,1. Based on my marathon time last year my VDOT is 45,9. That gives me an IM marathon time between 3:50 and 4.24. But I expect to be in much better shape in july than I was last year. It would be interesting to hear from some of you experienced IM folks how you think this chart hold up. Were you well trained for the Mary? Here is another blog post about bike/run training volume. Within in the blog post he talks about decoupling rate... from his post... First off, we look at what their de-couple is…..meaning how much slower they run a 10k, or half marathon off the bike versus open. Assuming there is no nutrition limiter, and the bike is executed (paced) in a reasonable way, we look for less than 8 percent. That is, if you run a 1:40 open half marathon, we shouldn’t see half iron run splits of slower than 1:48. If we do, than there is likely a lack of bike durability and good running off the bike will come with more bike miles. If the de-couple is less than this, then it’s their open running ability that’s limiting them. Curious how folks like Fred, James and others stats were. |
| 2011-01-13 1:12 PM in reply to: #3296770 |
Master 1411 Lexington, KY | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! jcb123 - 2011-01-13 10:19 AM It would be interesting to hear from some of you experienced IM folks how you think this chart hold up. Can't say exactly since I haven't run an open 5k, 10k, or HM in 20 years. My IM marathons have been 3:29 and 3:30, which works back to an open 10k time of ~ 36-38 minutes. That's pretty close to what I think I could have run with the fitness I had on the respective race days. |
| 2011-01-13 2:17 PM in reply to: #3296564 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! KathyG - 2011-01-13 9:04 AM jcb123 - 2011-01-13 2:04 AM Interesting discussion on IM run pace. How do you estimate your pace for the first IM? Did you use your open marathon time as a guide? Here is a chart that estimates what the range is for solid HIM or IM if you are well trained based on your VDot. Using a running race of 5K, 10K or 1/2 Mary you can figure out your VDot but most think the longer the race the more accurate the data. For those of you who have done IMs how does the chart line up? Are you in that 75-80% range of FT? Hard thing is fitness changes with training and we may have not done a running test close to HIM or IM. Wow, that's a bit of an eye opener. Definetly will need to work on the run speed this year. |
 2011-01-13 7:57 PM in reply to: #3297602 |
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| 2011-01-13 7:59 PM in reply to: #3256949 |
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| 2011-01-14 12:26 AM in reply to: #3298488 |
| Member 26 Denmark | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Fred Doucette - 2011-01-14 2:59 AM Actually I did a 10 mile race last year. Is there a way to plug that into the dot calculator? There is one here: http://løbesiden.dk/beregn_tid.php But it is in danish. You chooser the distance, enter the time where it says "Tid" in hour:minutes:seconds, and press "Beregn tider", then your VDOT will be shown under "VDOT værdi". |
| 2011-01-14 2:54 AM in reply to: #3256949 |
| Expert 937 | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! I can't believe how fast some you are. Makes me feel like a slug but I guess that most of you have a few more years of training than me. I'm actually ready to get my 1/2 marathon over so I can get back to my HIM training program. My wife and I sat down and talked about the race tonight. She's a little nervous but I think I calmed her down a bit. She's worried about walking across the finish line and I told her that her adrenaline will let her run at the end. I really hope that this is a fun event for both of us. I'm not as competitive as some of you but I might be as time goes on. We're going to go pick up our race packets tomorrow and I'd like to find out how many people are entered. I think last year more that 30,000 people ran the PF Chang's Rock n roll 1/2 marathon. It should be fun with that many people and all of the bands. That is what this lifestyle is for me, fun. I figure, why do it if you aren't going to be able to smile while you suffer. Anybody else have any races coming up in the next few weeks? Todd |
| 2011-01-14 6:14 AM in reply to: #3298775 |
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| 2011-01-14 6:15 AM in reply to: #3298806 |
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| 2011-01-14 6:33 AM in reply to: #3298870 |
| Master 1572 Baltimore | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Fred Doucette - 2011-01-14 7:14 AM jcb123 - 2011-01-14 1:26 AM . Thanks, I actually found one in English too. The problem is it uses ONLY a running event that can be reasonably short to predict an IM run. I think it gave me an IM run somewhere between 3:50-3:36, which is probably close to where I was, but as we have discussed before I come more from the camp of using different, longer training sessions or races to make my guesses. Nothing wrong with vdot at all, just uses a shorter metric. Similar in concept to the FTP stuff versus long ride efforts to pace an ironman bike leg. Interesting stuff though!Fred Doucette - 2011-01-14 2:59 AM Actually I did a 10 mile race last year. Is there a way to plug that into the dot calculator? There is one here: http://løbesiden.dk/beregn_tid.php But it is in danish. You chooser the distance, enter the time where it says "Tid" in hour:minutes:seconds, and press "Beregn tider", then your VDOT will be shown under "VDOT værdi". So this seems similar to our discussion before about power and IM bike pacing and the flaws an "hour" test (i.e. CP) will have in pacing an IM bike leg. Here you make the same point about run pacing I believe. I'm certainly not saying you're wrong or disagreeing with you, however, what do you think about the HIM distance? Do you think pacing off CP on the bike or run is valid at this distance? It seems like the HIM and IM just different beasts. I'ved used my most recent run race (5K) to get Vdot training paces (posted in my blog if anyone wants to take a look) and in the table KathyG posted to get sprint, oly, HIM run pace suggestions. Do you think a 5k is valid for this comparison (just out to HIM, not IM)? What length is valid? I hesitate on using a race result (e.g. an early oly) just because there are too many variables (bike pace, swim pace, hydration, basically the 1.5 hours of racing that comes before the run) where as a running race reduces it down to just the run variables. |
| 2011-01-14 6:48 AM in reply to: #3256949 |
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| 2011-01-14 6:49 AM in reply to: #3256949 |
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| 2011-01-14 7:36 AM in reply to: #3298806 |
| Expert 943 Highlands Ranch, CO | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! phxphotog - 2011-01-14 1:54 AM I can't believe how fast some you are. Makes me feel like a slug but I guess that most of you have a few more years of training than me. I'm actually ready to get my 1/2 marathon over so I can get back to my HIM training program. My wife and I sat down and talked about the race tonight. She's a little nervous but I think I calmed her down a bit. She's worried about walking across the finish line and I told her that her adrenaline will let her run at the end. I really hope that this is a fun event for both of us. I'm not as competitive as some of you but I might be as time goes on. We're going to go pick up our race packets tomorrow and I'd like to find out how many people are entered. I think last year more that 30,000 people ran the PF Chang's Rock n roll 1/2 marathon. It should be fun with that many people and all of the bands. That is what this lifestyle is for me, fun. I figure, why do it if you aren't going to be able to smile while you suffer. Anybody else have any races coming up in the next few weeks? Todd Todd, there were about 35,000 running last year. That was the first HM that I did and by far the most successful. As you know, the course is totally flat except for the one hill at the 12 mile mark. I hope you and your wife have a great time. Get there early, the port-a-potty lines are crazy long! |
| 2011-01-14 7:40 AM in reply to: #3298806 |
| Master 1402 Highlands Ranch | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Todd, Enjoy the race, and have a great time! I ran the Rock n Roll Denver 1/2, this past fall, and there were ~17,000 entrants. I'm not a fan of big crowds, but with that many runners there is literally a natural pace group for everyone to fall into. The bands along the way are great fun, and the crowd at the finish chute is a huge boost. Good Luck! |
| 2011-01-14 7:57 AM in reply to: #3256949 |
| Master 3058 South Alabama | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Todd-have a great race. Will look forward to hearing how it goes. What's everyone doing today? This weekend? Did my 5 @ 5 on the treadmill this morning. Swim workout at lunch and then an appt for ART treatment this afternoon so that I can keep all of the parts moving. Wish I just had grease fitting at various spots throughout the body. For the weekend I will probably do an easy long run with a buddy tomorrow morning, maybe some yoga in the afternoon and a longish bike on Sunday. Warming to upper 50's here over the weekend and I'm anxious to get back outside. Randy
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| 2011-01-14 7:59 AM in reply to: #3256949 |
| Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Todd - have a great race and enjoy it. I don't get to race until May! Joe - those are pretty impressive run pace times, and the watts/kg ain't too shabby either.  By the way, how did you get the chart into your blog? I'd like to openly steal the idea and add something similar to my own blog. |
| 2011-01-14 8:29 AM in reply to: #3256949 |
| Master 1411 Lexington, KY | Subject: RE: Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! Good luck this weekend Todd! Just some low key training on tap for me. Primary tasks this weekend will be to hang out with the family and make sure the Packers beat the Falcons. |
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