Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED (Page 29)
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2012-01-09 10:55 AM in reply to: #3978151 |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED stampinann - 2012-01-09 4:03 AM My swimming is FINALLY seeing some improvement and i think it's because 1) 3 days a week in the pool... 2) Drills! 3) swimming with people. The group had a swim test on Thursday - 400 Time Trial and 200 TT. I led my lane ....and swam the FASTEST 400 i have ever done! No buoy, no wetsuit - just me....being chased! My 200 was about 8 seconds slower than last test. today we did 300, 2X150 and 3X100s - i was consistent at about 2:02 per 100 on all the 100s. Not being chased today! It is very fun to see my swimming improve from a consistent 2:10/100 down to 2:02...and keep dropping. While I hate the tests - I am LOVING the fact that I now have comparisons. it's only how good you are on that day...but it gives me something to shoot for! I was NEVER as swimmer growing up. Pretty much learned to swim when I started Tri's in 2006!! That is fantastic! Congratulations on all the hard work you put into progressing. |
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2012-01-09 11:01 AM in reply to: #3978344 |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED jimmyb - 2012-01-09 6:15 AM Good weekend for training. Over 5 hours on the bike. Weight loss continues and I am losing pounds fast. I bought a scale and decided I would weigh myself every morning just before I shower. A few years ago when I tried to lose weight I lost so much that people told me I looked sick. I started wearing my kids belts. Will not do the same this time. I could however stand to lose about 20 pounds though. Being single, living alone, it's a challenge to cook. Not to mention that according to my boys the only thing I can cook is spaghetti. My dinner plans used to be "get in the car and drive till I find what chain restaurant looks good that night". I only have 2 shifts at the hospital this week and look forward to a great week of training. My goals for the week are to get 4 swims done. One will be an endurance swim of 3000 + yards. That's a good lot of biking done and a good swim goal! And super job on the weight loss. |
2012-01-09 11:11 AM in reply to: #3978473 |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED Kate_r - 2012-01-09 7:50 AM Does anyone have any experience with adventure races or off road running? From what I've read the advice is to get trail shoes that have more grip than normal running shoes. However, I have shoes with more stability as I've been told I over pronate. Most trail shoes I can find are neutral, I'm having some issues with my heels so don't want to go without the support but need the extra grip? Any advice? You've gotten some good insights from others. You can do trail/offroad with regular runnies, but they are less grippy. As pointed out, trail shoes won't give you any better "feel," though, in fact worse because they are also stiffer. I actually liked the stiffness and for shorter distances (meaning half-mary or less) ON road I used to wear Brooks trail shoes. Oh, and they were terrific for off-road; slippery, muddy, sandy, dirty, whatever. FWIW I'm a terrible pronator with extremely wide, flat feet. If they had hair, my feet would belong on a Hobbit. |
2012-01-09 11:19 AM in reply to: #3979619 |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED Hollz - 2012-01-10 12:07 AM ukweeble - 2012-01-08 2:12 PM Asalzwed - 2012-01-08 6:39 PM Personally I think someone should hold a doggie paddle sprint tri. I would thrive. Another irrelevant swim-related skill I have is the ability to jump from the high dive and not have my head go under water. book me in for that sprint. Any chance the bike section could be motorised and the run switched for a competative stroll??Nice high board skills. Seems a shame to mess up your hair!!! You are killing me Allen...I have such a picture of you in my head in your girlie pants with cherry lube...now strolling and dog paddling. Keep up the great humor along with the no ciggies. My stomach hurts from the laughing this morning!! Adrienne-Great Job! Enjoy the after partying as long as you can. I would have loved to have been there this weekend to see it. Awesome!!! swimming....both sides breathing-tell me Yanti-is it really necessary? I breathe realllllllly good on one side. And Yes!!! We have MERPEOPLE here in Colorado too-thanks for the explanation! I didn't know what they were. Now I TOTALLY GET IT!! BIRTHDAY-It was the BEST!! So much fun-all of us in a HUGE 22 person Escapade limo to the comedy club followed by bar hopping and back in the limo to my buddy Shari's to play Wii- just dance 3 until the wii hours. BEST BIRTHDAY EVER!!!!! Shari had these ridiculous buttons made up with my face -goofy grin that said "I'M 50" and everyone wore them the whole night...so ridiculous and silly. I tried some lovely new bevvies something called a white gummy bear, and something else called chocolate cake. Needless to say, missed my Sunday workout all together....so we'll just pretend it's Monday tonight. I am loving all your training logs and am amazed at everyone's progress and dedication. GREAT JOB MANATEES!!! And Lynn....you're training is amaaaaaaazing-you go GIRL! HAPPY MONDAY EVERYONE Some bunny knows how to PAR-TAY! Way to ring it in! If you have a nearly perfectly balanced stroke and are never planning to swim in open water where the sun, an annoying competitor who keeps whacking you, waves, etc. might be on one side, then nope. No reason to learn breathing on both sides. |
2012-01-09 1:28 PM in reply to: #3979730 |
Seattle | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED TriAya - 2012-01-09 10:46 AM Now THAT is a video I would like you to make...well, you know, among others. I think the key to a good doggie paddle is to stroke so hard you @$$ is out of the water.0Asalzwed - 2012-01-09 2:39 AM Personally I think someone should hold a doggie paddle sprint tri. I would thrive. Another irrelevant swim-related skill I have is the ability to jump from the high dive and not have my head go under water. I am all for this. I have long since done a drill (I think of it more as a genuine stroke) called Competition Doggypaddle. I have even logged it. When I took an OWS clinic and private coaching with Sheila Taormina (who is only the world's greatest athlete), I shared it with her. This is from an e-mail from her a little while back: "The competition doggy paddle drill is a GREAT one! In fact, your email reminds me that it is so good that it should be incorporated into the clinics." I'm so proud. Now I suppose I should explain what it is and why it's good for how, but it really ought to have video. In fact, since I think so poorly of many popular drills, I really should do a video article about drills I like and think are actually useful ... drat, I think that's six, or is it seven articles I have going on right now ... sheesh. |
2012-01-09 1:29 PM in reply to: #3979619 |
Seattle | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED Hollz - 2012-01-09 10:07 AM Again, happy birthday! I can only hope I am as cool as you when I'm 50!ukweeble - 2012-01-08 2:12 PM Asalzwed - 2012-01-08 6:39 PM Personally I think someone should hold a doggie paddle sprint tri. I would thrive. Another irrelevant swim-related skill I have is the ability to jump from the high dive and not have my head go under water. book me in for that sprint. Any chance the bike section could be motorised and the run switched for a competative stroll??Nice high board skills. Seems a shame to mess up your hair!!! You are killing me Allen...I have such a picture of you in my head in your girlie pants with cherry lube...now strolling and dog paddling. Keep up the great humor along with the no ciggies. My stomach hurts from the laughing this morning!! Adrienne-Great Job! Enjoy the after partying as long as you can. I would have loved to have been there this weekend to see it. Awesome!!! swimming....both sides breathing-tell me Yanti-is it really necessary? I breathe realllllllly good on one side. And Yes!!! We have MERPEOPLE here in Colorado too-thanks for the explanation! I didn't know what they were. Now I TOTALLY GET IT!! BIRTHDAY-It was the BEST!! So much fun-all of us in a HUGE 22 person Escapade limo to the comedy club followed by bar hopping and back in the limo to my buddy Shari's to play Wii- just dance 3 until the wii hours. BEST BIRTHDAY EVER!!!!! Shari had these ridiculous buttons made up with my face -goofy grin that said "I'M 50" and everyone wore them the whole night...so ridiculous and silly. I tried some lovely new bevvies something called a white gummy bear, and something else called chocolate cake. Needless to say, missed my Sunday workout all together....so we'll just pretend it's Monday tonight. I am loving all your training logs and am amazed at everyone's progress and dedication. GREAT JOB MANATEES!!! And Lynn....you're training is amaaaaaaazing-you go GIRL! HAPPY MONDAY EVERYONE |
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2012-01-09 1:52 PM in reply to: #3977889 |
Master 9705 Raleigh, NC area | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED Asalzwed - 2012-01-08 11:25 AM Tripopo - 2012-01-08 9:58 AM I think how much GU is personal. Maybe try a few things and see what your needs are. Try not to buy into the marketing. Personally I use 1 in a HM, if that.Had a question for y'all nutrition wise for my HM: I've been training with perpetuum on my longer runs, because I got it on sale in powdered form, but was planning on having 2-3 GU's for the HM, have used them before just not in the last few months. Anyone have any guidelines on how many for a HM?
That's an awesome job on that ragnar that race sounds like serious fun. I use one for the half marathon (probably more to break things up mentally than because it's needed nutritionally) and 3-4 for a marathon. |
2012-01-09 2:00 PM in reply to: #3942879 |
Member 892 England | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED congrats on the birthday Hollz. The big 5-0 sounds like something to look forward to if we all get the chance to party like you. Pleased you are able to paint such an accurate image of me! I will be updating with more morsels of info as time goes by to complete the picture. To all my fellow Manatees, you guys are really rocking with your training. It spurs me on to train hard just to make it worthwhile posting myself. As for me, my swimming isn't getting faster but my endurance is improving. Have i mentioned i hate swimming? My run seems a little better, as does my bike. I AM STILL STOPPED SMOKING. Just about to go out for my first night jog having bought some neon/reflective gear. Desperately need to get myself a digital watch so that i can time myself more accurately. Love the positivity of the group. Thanks Lynn and Yanti for setting the mood and keeping it there. Am i going on a bit? it is beginning to sound a bit like an 'Oscars' acceptance speech so i will shut up. |
2012-01-09 2:02 PM in reply to: #3980193 |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED ukweeble - 2012-01-10 4:00 AM congrats on the birthday Hollz. The big 5-0 sounds like something to look forward to if we all get the chance to party like you. Pleased you are able to paint such an accurate image of me! I will be updating with more morsels of info as time goes by to complete the picture. To all my fellow Manatees, you guys are really rocking with your training. It spurs me on to train hard just to make it worthwhile posting myself. As for me, my swimming isn't getting faster but my endurance is improving. Have i mentioned i hate swimming? My run seems a little better, as does my bike. I AM STILL STOPPED SMOKING. Just about to go out for my first night jog having bought some neon/reflective gear. Desperately need to get myself a digital watch so that i can time myself more accurately. Love the positivity of the group. Thanks Lynn and Yanti for setting the mood and keeping it there. Am i going on a bit? it is beginning to sound a bit like an 'Oscars' acceptance speech so i will shut up. That's worth more than any Oscar. |
2012-01-09 2:18 PM in reply to: #3979818 |
Veteran 158 Golden, CO | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED TriAya - 2012-01-09 10:19 AM Hollz - 2012-01-10 12:07 AM ukweeble - 2012-01-08 2:12 PM Asalzwed - 2012-01-08 6:39 PM Personally I think someone should hold a doggie paddle sprint tri. I would thrive. Another irrelevant swim-related skill I have is the ability to jump from the high dive and not have my head go under water. book me in for that sprint. Any chance the bike section could be motorised and the run switched for a competative stroll??Nice high board skills. Seems a shame to mess up your hair!!! You are killing me Allen...I have such a picture of you in my head in your girlie pants with cherry lube...now strolling and dog paddling. Keep up the great humor along with the no ciggies. My stomach hurts from the laughing this morning!! Adrienne-Great Job! Enjoy the after partying as long as you can. I would have loved to have been there this weekend to see it. Awesome!!! swimming....both sides breathing-tell me Yanti-is it really necessary? I breathe realllllllly good on one side. And Yes!!! We have MERPEOPLE here in Colorado too-thanks for the explanation! I didn't know what they were. Now I TOTALLY GET IT!! BIRTHDAY-It was the BEST!! So much fun-all of us in a HUGE 22 person Escapade limo to the comedy club followed by bar hopping and back in the limo to my buddy Shari's to play Wii- just dance 3 until the wii hours. BEST BIRTHDAY EVER!!!!! Shari had these ridiculous buttons made up with my face -goofy grin that said "I'M 50" and everyone wore them the whole night...so ridiculous and silly. I tried some lovely new bevvies something called a white gummy bear, and something else called chocolate cake. Needless to say, missed my Sunday workout all together....so we'll just pretend it's Monday tonight. I am loving all your training logs and am amazed at everyone's progress and dedication. GREAT JOB MANATEES!!! And Lynn....you're training is amaaaaaaazing-you go GIRL! HAPPY MONDAY EVERYONE Some bunny knows how to PAR-TAY! Way to ring it in! If you have a nearly perfectly balanced stroke and are never planning to swim in open water where the sun, an annoying competitor who keeps whacking you, waves, etc. might be on one side, then nope. No reason to learn breathing on both sides. hmmm. that isn't the case....so, I really need to work harder on the breathing righty then. poop! all things swimmy-I totally trust to you ms. fish...so I will work on it. do share some of your better drills...I tend to just swimmy swimmy and kinda hate any drill-type moves. no need for video (yet) but a few solid tips would be wonderful. I love the water, but my swimming is definitely slow. Pretty, but slow. And I do love the pretty. (but it doesn't make me feel pretty getting lapped!) |
2012-01-09 2:18 PM in reply to: #3980203 |
Veteran 158 Golden, CO | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED TriAya - 2012-01-09 1:02 PM ukweeble - 2012-01-10 4:00 AM congrats on the birthday Hollz. The big 5-0 sounds like something to look forward to if we all get the chance to party like you. Pleased you are able to paint such an accurate image of me! I will be updating with more morsels of info as time goes by to complete the picture. To all my fellow Manatees, you guys are really rocking with your training. It spurs me on to train hard just to make it worthwhile posting myself. As for me, my swimming isn't getting faster but my endurance is improving. Have i mentioned i hate swimming? My run seems a little better, as does my bike. I AM STILL STOPPED SMOKING. Just about to go out for my first night jog having bought some neon/reflective gear. Desperately need to get myself a digital watch so that i can time myself more accurately. Love the positivity of the group. Thanks Lynn and Yanti for setting the mood and keeping it there. Am i going on a bit? it is beginning to sound a bit like an 'Oscars' acceptance speech so i will shut up. That's worth more than any Oscar. Ditto Allen! Happy reflective running!! |
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2012-01-09 3:21 PM in reply to: #3980193 |
Master 1332 Vista, CA | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED ukweeble - 2012-01-09 12:00 PM congrats on the birthday Hollz. The big 5-0 sounds like something to look forward to if we all get the chance to party like you. Pleased you are able to paint such an accurate image of me! I will be updating with more morsels of info as time goes by to complete the picture. To all my fellow Manatees, you guys are really rocking with your training. It spurs me on to train hard just to make it worthwhile posting myself. As for me, my swimming isn't getting faster but my endurance is improving. Have i mentioned i hate swimming? My run seems a little better, as does my bike. I AM STILL STOPPED SMOKING. Just about to go out for my first night jog having bought some neon/reflective gear. Desperately need to get myself a digital watch so that i can time myself more accurately. Love the positivity of the group. Thanks Lynn and Yanti for setting the mood and keeping it there. Am i going on a bit? it is beginning to sound a bit like an 'Oscars' acceptance speech so i will shut up.
If you keep off the cigs you'll DESERVE an Oscar, a Tony, an Emmy, etc. Maybe we'll come up with a special Manatee Trophy -- a Flipper or Thwacker trophy. |
2012-01-09 3:26 PM in reply to: #3980387 |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED lmscozz - 2012-01-10 5:21 AM ukweeble - 2012-01-09 12:00 PM congrats on the birthday Hollz. The big 5-0 sounds like something to look forward to if we all get the chance to party like you. Pleased you are able to paint such an accurate image of me! I will be updating with more morsels of info as time goes by to complete the picture. To all my fellow Manatees, you guys are really rocking with your training. It spurs me on to train hard just to make it worthwhile posting myself. As for me, my swimming isn't getting faster but my endurance is improving. Have i mentioned i hate swimming? My run seems a little better, as does my bike. I AM STILL STOPPED SMOKING. Just about to go out for my first night jog having bought some neon/reflective gear. Desperately need to get myself a digital watch so that i can time myself more accurately. Love the positivity of the group. Thanks Lynn and Yanti for setting the mood and keeping it there. Am i going on a bit? it is beginning to sound a bit like an 'Oscars' acceptance speech so i will shut up.
If you keep off the cigs you'll DESERVE an Oscar, a Tony, an Emmy, etc. Maybe we'll come up with a special Manatee Trophy -- a Flipper or Thwacker trophy. THE GOLDEN FLIPPER AWARD!!! I love it. Unless Allen likes silver better. Platinum? Bioluminescent flipper? |
2012-01-09 3:33 PM in reply to: #3942879 |
Seattle | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED Allen, I'm just adding the neon clothing to the image that has been painted of you thus far, hahaha.So it turns out our relay team got 17th out of 290. Not too shabby for a bunch of hooligans making "that's what she said" jokes for 30 hours. |
2012-01-09 3:38 PM in reply to: #3980410 |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED Asalzwed - 2012-01-10 5:33 AM Allen, I'm just adding the neon clothing to the image that has been painted of you thus far, hahaha.So it turns out our relay team got 17th out of 290. Not too shabby for a bunch of hooligans making "that's what she said" jokes for 30 hours. HOT DIGGITY DOG ... there are some serrrrrious teams out there and y'all place practically top 5%? |
2012-01-09 6:01 PM in reply to: #3942879 |
Master 7712 Orlando | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED Yanti, looking at your avatar just reminds me how horrible my swim form is! I do not get anyway near that type of rotation. Of course, that could explain why I'm so slow
Ann-Marie |
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2012-01-09 6:32 PM in reply to: #3942879 |
Coastal Carolina | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED Keep it up Allen that's fantastic!!
OK so stupid trainer question, how much resistance should be on the rear tire? I have a cycle ops fluid pro 2 trainer and I set it up and did an easy 30 min spin just trying to get a handle on set up etc. I bought the unit in October (got a great deal so didn't want to pass it up) but just set it up for the first time today and it seemed alot easier than what I was expecting based on comments from BT. For instance, and I realize speed isnt accurate, my avg speed according to my cyclecomp was in the mid 30's mph and I could get it into the 40's, which according to the speed to power chart would have me at over 800 Joules... which as much as I 'd love to think I am that beastly, I'm not- not at all. Thoughts? |
2012-01-09 7:55 PM in reply to: #3942879 |
Veteran 478 Hoosier heartland | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED Hey Manatee friends! Looks like everyone is progressing well in their fitness journey! Congrats and keep up the fantastic work. I went to my Monday spin class only to find the class FULL. I arrived 15 minutes early too...boo. I asked one of the regulars when he arrived and he said 25 minutes early and there were only two bikes left!! Guess I need to come extra extra early. I did get in a workout though, so can't complain. On a side note, does anyone deal with allergies and asthma? I'm finally going to see a doctor tomorrow regarding my asthma. I have had a history of allergies and asthma, but have been keeping the asthma at bay for a good couple of years. Six weeks ago, I helped my brother and sister in law pack boxes when they were moving. I ended up with terrible asthma and had to leave their house. Since then anything that I'm allergic to turns into asthma. I've had to take my rescue inhaler waaay too much. I finally realized that I probably need maintenance meds to get myself back on track. Sucks. But breathing is important. Geez, who knows, finally breathing well, might improve my training. I'll let you guys know how it goes. |
2012-01-09 9:03 PM in reply to: #3942879 |
Expert 1452 Troy, MI | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED Hollz-Happy 50th!! Way to celebrate in style!! Allen-Great job!! Keep up the good work and enjoy the run. Celebrate by taking lots of deep breaths!! You earned them!
Today was Day 1 of Big Sur training. Crosstraining day with Barre Plus which was just brutal. Totally felt accomplished because I survived! |
2012-01-09 10:40 PM in reply to: #3980873 |
Veteran 940 Citrus Heights, CA | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED Claire--I have pretty nasty seasonal allergies, and during (!) last year's racing, I discovered that I also have exercise-induced asthma....I was so happy to learn that I had it though--I had done two tris, and during both of them I would have MAJOR issues breathing during the swim, leading to major chest pain (still with the inability to breathe) during the bike and run! Finally, I visited my doctor and was prescribed an inhaler--It was like a breakthrough moment--my next workout went SO well, I almost cried cause I was so happy--instead, I ran--and ran, and ran, and ran....It can still get a little tight, but nowhere near as bad as before. Rest day today---20 miles on the bike followed by a quick run tomorrow! Good times! Oh yeah--new first today! I got to play with a bobcat--he lives in our education dept. While I have seen him a bunch (even patrolled with him while he's on a walk), I never got to hang with him. Today I was able to sit in his 'den' and pet him and play with him--so awesome! |
2012-01-09 11:50 PM in reply to: #3942879 |
Regular 139 Salem | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED Sorry that I have been MIA the past week. I have been having trouble sleeping when I get home from work at night. I have been sleeping from 4:00am to 11:00 am. It only left me with a couple of hours to deal with training and getting ready for work. But, Im back to more of a normal schedule this week.
Hope everybody has a great week! |
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2012-01-10 5:17 AM in reply to: #3942879 |
Extreme Veteran 603 Glasgow, UK | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED I should have been clearer about the question of trail shoes, I have trail shoes with no specific support as far as I can tell but a sole capable of gripping and withstanding the uneven surface. The problem is that I ran in 'neutral' running shoes for 9 months after some bad advice and now have plantar faciatis that I'm trying to resolve. The question is - do I run in my support giving running shoes that I know will help my heel pain but provide no stability for my ankles or grip or do I run in my trail shoes and hope that the fact that I'm not running on concrete means that I wont suffer as a result of the lack of support.
Why don't manufacturers make trail shoes with support? Is it too niche or are they just not needed? |
2012-01-10 5:19 AM in reply to: #3980193 |
Extreme Veteran 603 Glasgow, UK | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED ukweeble - 2012-01-09 8:00 PM I AM STILL STOPPED SMOKING. Yay - well done, this is great news! |
2012-01-10 6:00 AM in reply to: #3942879 |
Expert 866 | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED So this diet, weight loss thing is going pretty good so far. Biggest struggle for me are the hunger pains. I have been trying to combat this with drinking lots of water, carrying snacks with me throughout the day, and increasing protein (eg. Greek yogurt in the am's vs regular). Anyone have any remedies that work well for them? This coming from a guy who can eat a whole large supreme pizza anytime, anywhere. May everyone reach their goals today!!! |
2012-01-10 6:35 AM in reply to: #3980697 |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: Yanti & Lynn: Manatee Madness Mentor Group CLOSED amd723 - 2012-01-10 8:01 AM Yanti, looking at your avatar just reminds me how horrible my swim form is! I do not get anyway near that type of rotation. Of course, that could explain why I'm so slow
Ann-Marie I'm tellin' ya ... blowholes in the armpits ... try it, it works. |
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