Zimmerman Trial Predictions (Page 3)

If GZ had not assaulted him... then TM does not have the right to meet that force with force. If indeed TM through the first punch... that is assault. What you are arguing is that GZ hunted him down... through the first punch, allowed TM to hit him a few times to bloody him up, just so he could shoot him... ya, no.

If GZ confronted him in an agressive way, grabed his arm to turn him around, put his hands on him in some way... then I totally agree with you... and that is probably man slaughter. You do not put your hands on somebody... and in that situation especially, nothing good is going to come from it.... but we do not know. All we can do is speculate.

Off topic a little bit, but I somehow ended up in the weird part of youtube again last night and there were a couple video's of "street fights" that I watched.  This case came to mind a few times because in a large number of the fights I could have seen where one party or the other could have justifiably shot the other dude.

It's kind of scary when you think about it.  Being a "tough guy" has a little higher risk these days than it did twenty years ago.

Where was Zimmerman when the non emergency operator said "we don't need you to do that"? I'm assuming those are the "instructions" your are referring to. 

What did Zimmerman say and do after the non emergency operator made that statement?

How do you come to the conclusion that Zimmerman "wasn't innocently getting out of his car"? What was he doing that was criminal or illegal?

On a side note, just put a 15# brisket and 3 racks of Baby Backs on the smoker, stop over this evening if ya like.

One of the things that troubles me that I'm hearing or not hearing on the news is the fact that you should not start a fist fight with someone who has a gun. I think it's a good idea to assume everyone has a gun. The Sharptons and the like pretend as if TM had done nothing wrong prior to being shot.  I guess that could be true if you could made a case that Zimmerman hit TM in the fist with has nose?!?

Excellent post. 

I may disagree with just a bit of it, while initially one would naturally consider the possibility of it being racially motivated it really wouldn't have taken much research to see that it clearly was not.

What turned this into such a racially charged news event was primarily the media and their cooperation with Al (the tax cheat) Sharpton, JJ, Holder/DOJ and our President interjecting themselves into this. The DOJ spent our tax dollars supporting and starting Anti Zimmerman protests in Florida..... If you listen to MSNBC today you would think the only reason Z shot him was due to his race,,,,,,,,,,,, disgusting.

And ya... I'm sorry, but that is a good thing... don't get in fights. I learned a long time ago, when I am angry over a traffic incident, road rage.... nothing good is going to come from pulling over. Really bad idea. I do not understand this thinking that is is just OK to punch somebody. That recent case of that road rage couple who pulled over with the teens and fired shots... ya, he definitely should do time!

But other supporters said GZ brought a gun to a fist fight.... I'm sorry, why were they fist fighting? And going by reports... why was TM allowed to start one?

Yes, I agree with the sumation.

And I do watch all the news outlets to get different perspactives... but I can't even stomache MSNBC. I mean it is just so blatently... uggh. Ridiculous. The only "opinion" they had on the subject was simple emotion and stocking the racial fire. Just pathetic on just about any subject they cover. CNN seems to try to carve a nitch out between them and FOX.

It's not all conjecture. You made the assertion that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation and I don't know how you came to that conclusion. I don't think there any facts to support that assertions made by the prosecution but no fact to back it up.

Here is a link to the call you referenced http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html 

FWIW, my understanding of the events is that after the dispatcher said we don't need you to do that, he (Z) started to go back to his vehicle and that is when TM started the verbal and physical altercation leading to his death. 

Don't get me wrong, I think it was a mistake for him to get out of the vehicle while he was carrying. I think it was a bigger mistake for TM to punch him because he was reporting him to the police. 

Regarding the stand your ground law, I don't know why you (or the talking heads on MSNBC) keep bringing it up. It was never invoked or a part of the defense, it played NO role in this case whatsoever. The only reason I think is because those who don't like guns want another bite at the 2nd Amendment, but that's just my speculation as to why they bring up something that has no bearing on this case. 

I've had a busy year and this is the first Smoke session I've done in a while. Maryland style pit beef,,,,, not familiar with that? But slow cooked meat always sounds good.

Yes JMK, I am conflicted too. Without conjecture of this case.... for me personally, I agree with "stand your ground". Probably more to the point that I do not have a "duty to retreat". In Colorado, I do not have a duty to retreat. But for me personally, to live with myself, there is no way I could use deadly force without attempting to retreat if I could. If I had to use deadly force, I myself would have to know I did not play a part in making it happen. That I wasn't running my mouth and things escalated. That for me it truely was the last resort.

Yet in many states, the law is clear. I can run my mouth all I want as long as I am not making threats. And if things escalate, or if I am punched first... well that is assault. And you do not have the legal right to assault somone because they are running their mouth. You can just walk away. Even without a gun, if I assault somone that is making me mad, I stand a chance of getting my but whooped. That is not a action I want to enter into lightly. But a drunk guy... ya, drunk guy always gets charged.

I realize there are a lot of idiots in this world, and that some are going to ruin it for others. Was GZ a wannabe tough guy playing cop and looking for any excuse to use his gun... who knows. Me, I am a caring responsible person. It almost makes me afraid to even carry because of the HUGE liability it becomes. And I know when I do, I have to be the best behaved most civil person around to make sure I don't do anything that would require it's use. I mean it darn near gets to the point that carrying causes more problems than it solves...legally. But I do have the right. And why as a law abiding citizen must I "fear" excersizing my rights?

Conflicted indeed.

I'm sorry, to me, that is a lot of bad information. I know where you are coming from, but still. Here is the only thing you need to know.

If you carry, then it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to know the laws of YOUR states and localities. They are all different.

Second, if you are ever involved in a shooting, do not say one word to the police until your attorney arrives.... ever, never, ever. NEVER.

You have a right to defend your self. You also have the right to remain silent and have an attorney present... use them.

However there is nothing illegal about this.  Zimmerman was 100% within his rights to follow, approach and even speak with Martin.  What happened after that is all conjecture and hearsay.

Should Zimmerman have stayed in the car?  Probably.  But you cannot convict him on this.

The thing that really disgusts me is how the black communities all over the US are reacting to this.  A White/Hispanic guy is acquitted of shooting a black kid in Florida you say...?

Well then naturally black people in Oakland should spray paint "Kill PIGS" on the walls and smash in windows...

First of all my sarcasm font did not come thru...

Secondly, I did not say all black communities were acting this way.  However the people who are acting this way are predominately in black communities.

Understandably upset?  Am I, as a white guy supposed to be upset if a black man is acquitted of shooting a white guy?  I do not care what color their skin is. 

There is nothing "understandably" about the actions in, for example, Oakland.  These people are out of line and taking this case as an excuse to act out.

OK, sorry... but the "ball" started rolling when Martin decided to go to the store. Wait... it started rolling when the complex got burglarized.... wait, it started rolling when GZ bought the gun....

Seriously JMK. You want to fixate on a point just to suit your argument. TM is a free man to go to the store. GZ is a free man to keep an eye on his complex and get out of his truck. At some point, someone crossed the line. One person assaulted the other, and from there a young man lost his life. We do not know what exactly happened, and I have never said TM is responsible for his own death. All I do know is that a jury of 6 females, 5 of whom were mothers, did not find sufficient evidence to convict him of murder or MS.

GZ may or may not have assaulted TM first. TM may or may not have assaulted GZ first. But "IF" TM did assault GZ first... then that was a mistake. If TM decided to give GZ a beat down, instead of just hit him and run away, as the evidence seems to show... then that was a decision that cost him his life. That isn't smearing TM. Assault is not a capital crime. I wish he could have grown up to learn that is not how things should be done... but it is more than possible, and according to the only know witness, that is what happened. And that is self defense.

So you are saying, if TM had got the flu and stayed home that night, he still would have been shot by GZ.... because it really sounds like that is what you are saying.

It was perfectly legal for TM to walk around talking to his girl friend on the phone. It was perfectly legal for GZ to watch over his community.

TM checked out GZ and then started running and GZ chased.... but then it ended. It was over. Why did TM not go home? Why did he not go the 400 yards to his place and tell his dad somone was chasing him? Why did he stop? Why did he CHOOSE to engage GZ???? Because he had lost GZ, and GZ was walking back to his truck to meet the police.

I do not need to vindicate anything. The thing you fail to realize is that there were plenty of opportunities along the way to stop the ball. Yes, even if it starts rolling, any number of things can stop it, or change it's direction. You can't possibly believe that is not true. That would be you trying to vindicate the need for no guns.... these things work both ways.