Attention Christian Triathletes! (Page 3)
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Here is another organization. Athletes in Action Triathlon. http://www.aiatriathlon.com/ |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Miko, I was thinking of some of the same verses that you mentioned. It would seem a bit awkward for triathletes to show up to a "Christian event" with a $2-3K bike, all the equipment and gear ... and yet have our neighbors in need of life's essentials, wouldn't it? I know if Jesus approached me and compared the amount of money and time I spend on triathlon to the amount of money and time I spend helping my neighbors (everyone), I would not be able to look Jesus in the face. It is something I constantly struggle with. I have periods where I am very selfless, and other periods where I am well, downright selfish with my time and money. I am not judging anyone outside of myself. As I have mentioned before, I have enough difficulty keeping the plank out of my own eye, let alone worrying about the dust in others' eyes. But, perhaps we can encourager each other to do more to help those that need it. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Nicely said. And it's true of all triathlons, not just the Christian ones - and true of everything we spend money on for ourselves. That's why it's nice that many major religions suggest that we give a 'tenth part' of our income to others. It's not as perfect as the example of Jesus, but if we all gave even that much, the world would be quite a bit better off, wouldn't it? And I don't give even that much myself. *sigh*. But then, I don't have a 3K bike either! *grin*. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() TripleThreat - 2005-08-10 2:19 PM Miko, I was thinking of some of the same verses that you mentioned. It would seem a bit awkward for triathletes to show up to a "Christian event" with a $2-3K bike, all the equipment and gear ... and yet have our neighbors in need of life's essentials, wouldn't it? I know if Jesus approached me and compared the amount of money and time I spend on triathlon to the amount of money and time I spend helping my neighbors (everyone), I would not be able to look Jesus in the face. It is something I constantly struggle with. I have periods where I am very selfless, and other periods where I am well, downright selfish with my time and money. I am not judging anyone outside of myself. As I have mentioned before, I have enough difficulty keeping the plank out of my own eye, let alone worrying about the dust in others' eyes. But, perhaps we can encourager each other to do more to help those that need it. Ryan, this is so true for myself. It is a constant struggle to NOT be selfish. I'm glad this thread was started, it really provokes alot of great thought. Pam |
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![]() | ![]() This post is not made in anger or as a knee-jerk reaction. I've read the other posts carefully and really thought about what I felt I needed to say. I guess I opened up a whole new can of worms. I'm not going to apologize, though, for my beliefs - any more than I would ask anyone else to apologize for theirs. These guys are triathletes and are not making their living from the sale of Tri4God merchandise. Some people wear t-shirts that promote Trek, Cannondale, or QR - just to mention a few. They buy these shirts because they are awfully proud of what the shirt advertises. I don't see wearing a Tri4God t-shirt as being any different. We all use these forums to share our opinions and experiences when we feel that they can benefit others. If I read a post about the benefits of riding a Radio Flyer tricycle in a triathlon, I wouldn't agree with it, but the writer would certainly be entitled to his opinion, so I wouldn't blast him with negative comments. I would just move on to a thread that applied more to me. Posters are certainly entitled to express negative opinions, but why do so when the post is non-argumentative and is meant to be a positive help to those to whom it applies? As a Christian triathlete, I thought it would be beneficial for other Christian triathletes to know about this organization and, in turn, I have learned about some other similar organizations. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the sport of triathlon is one of the greatest sports in the world. Regardless of our differences, backgrounds, or beliefs, I can stand side-by-side with you at the start of a tri and we have a common goal of finishing the race and performing to the best of our abilities. If someone has had a bad experience with a Christian or a religious organization, I am truly sorry. But you shouldn't let one experience affect your opinion of all religious organizations. Let me give you an example from my race this weekend. While on the run, I had just gotten a cold glass of water at the aid station, when a female triathlete buzzed past me and slapped it out of my hand. Now if I had formed an immediate opinion that all women triathletes are mean-spirited, and this is indicative of the sport as a whole, I wouldn't be going to swim in a few minutes. What would be the point? I choose to find the good in others, even the person that slapped the water out of my hand this weekend! And in the words of Forest Gump "That's all I'm gonna say bout that!" |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Michael - 2005-08-10 8:52 PM As a Christian triathlete, I thought it would be beneficial for other Christian triathletes to know about this organization and, in turn, I have learned about some other similar organizations. As a triathlete, I think its beneficial for any other triathletes to know about any race. Thanks for posting it.. On the whole, I think this thread has been informative, and mostly positive. |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Michael, this was a great reply ..."I've said it before and I'll say it again: the sport of triathlon is one of the greatest sports in the world. Regardless of our differences, backgrounds, or beliefs, I can stand side-by-side with you at the start of a tri and we have a common goal of finishing the race and performing to the best of our abilities." And it's true. As a Christian, I too am glad this thread began ![]() ![]() |
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![]() | ![]() marmadaddy - 2005-08-10 7:00 PM Michael - 2005-08-10 8:52 PM
Thanks, I have been lurking for a while but life was just a little out of control. It is starting to setlle down. I am going to try to not be a lurker and be a little more active on the board. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Joshua11 - 2005-08-10 10:30 AM 2. never heard of "shirt-sleeve" Christianity 3. no agenda was promoted, just a good race put on by a local ministry 4. Christ threw out the money changers because they had turned a place of worship into a marketplace - hardly the same as a lake, T1/T2, etc. etc..... People who wear their Christianity openly as s symbol to others. As opposed to secret societies. It's the "hi, hey do you have a church" types, or fish on the bumper, or honk for Jesus bumper sticker. My considerable experience is there is little actual belif beyond the superficial. It's like being in a club. so you're saying that none of the money from the race went to promote their ministry? Of course it did. And these guys get their income from the ministry. Ergo, the race pays their bills, so the money changer bit applies in spades. All ministers who are paid are suspect. They will say and do whatever it takes to put bodies in the seats because their livelihood depends on it. And if you don't believe that is how they work, even on an uncouncsious level you are beyond naive. I'm not saying its bad, just reconginze that their is no altruism when money is involved. Everyone has an agenda. And if they're really good at preaching they get a 26,000 seat church and their own TV show. Eventually they also acquire a big-haired make-up painting wife, several big houses and a secretary with big boobs. it's the Evangelical way. Now the lay people do accomplish good things. Don't get me wrong. They just don't realize they're helping further some minister's career at the same time. So support a tri that donates to a real charity like MS or Breast Cancer and let the so-called Christian ministers scam old ladies and fat people on Sunday in church. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() dovecom - 2005-08-10 8:10 PM so you're saying that none of the money from the race went to promote their ministry? Of course it did. And these guys get their income from the ministry. Ergo, the race pays their bills, so the money changer bit applies in spades. What? I haven't seen their AR/AP stuff, but I really doubt that they sell enough to cover the costs of the shirts to get any income more than about $50/month after bills. Websites aren't free, and I bet a good portion of any 'profits' go to paying for that. I doubt these people get one cent in their own pockets after all is said and done. All ministers who are paid are suspect. Good thing I'm an unpaid minister then! They will say and do whatever it takes to put bodies in the seats because their livelihood depends on it. And if you don't believe that is how they work, even on an uncouncsious level you are beyond naive. I'm not saying its bad, just reconginze that their is no altruism when money is involved. Everyone has an agenda. And if they're really good at preaching they get a 26,000 seat church and their own TV show. Eventually they also acquire a big-haired make-up painting wife, several big houses and a secretary with big boobs. it's the Evangelical way. I think you're confusing Evangelical with Televangelical. Now the lay people do accomplish good things. Don't get me wrong. They just don't realize they're helping further some minister's career at the same time. So support a tri that donates to a real charity like MS or Breast Cancer and let the so-called Christian ministers scam old ladies and fat people on Sunday in church. So, the church that I go to scams little old ladies and fat people? Let's see, we have a youth ministry - they went to South Dakota to renovate homes. We have a Food delivery ministry - all the food is donated by members, or local grocery stores. We have a Coins for Christ ministry, where people CAN donate spare change to help buy school supplies for underprivledged kids. We have a Single's ministry - they organize their own potlucks and games nights. I don't see any scams there. If you're ever at a triathlon that I'm at, I'll still pray for you, as I think you need God's love more than I do. And I know that several people here have Biblical quotes in their sig lines, but I'll leave you with one that I think may be more fitting:
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() dovecom - 2005-08-10 9:10 PM People who wear their Christianity openly as s symbol to others. As opposed to secret societies. It's the "hi, hey do you have a church" types, or fish on the bumper, or honk for Jesus bumper sticker. My considerable experience is there is little actual belif beyond the superficial. It's like being in a club. so you're saying that none of the money from the race went to promote their ministry? Of course it did. And these guys get their income from the ministry. Ergo, the race pays their bills, so the money changer bit applies in spades. All ministers who are paid are suspect. >They will say and do whatever it takes to put bodies in the seats because their livelihood depends on it. And if you don't believe that is how they work, even on an uncouncsious level you are beyond naive. I'm not saying its bad, just reconginze that their is no altruism when money is involved. Everyone has an agenda. And if they're really good at preaching they get a 26,000 seat church and their own TV show. Eventually they also acquire a big-haired make-up painting wife, several big houses and a secretary with big boobs. it's the Evangelical way. Now the lay people do accomplish good things. Don't get me wrong. They just don't realize they're helping further some minister's career at the same time. So support a tri that donates to a real charity like MS or Breast Cancer and let the so-called Christian ministers scam old ladies and fat people on Sunday in church. Did you really say that ministers who are paid are suspect? How are they supposed to feed themselves? "fat people in church?" Are you being a jerk on purpose? Are you a troll? You are now sounding so hysterical (and ridiculous,) I think it's best just to let you keep going. I'm not sure why you are so bitter, but I hope for you one day you find a spiritual community that suits your needs. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Michael, thanks for the thread. Spreading the word always brings returns, it never comes back empty. I hope that those who are curious will check it out. Good job. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hey, I just found out that God wants us to be triathletes! Well, maybe not triathletes specifically, but endurance athletes. Check out Hebrews 10: 35-36 35Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. You know, I like that one so much I think it is going to be my new signature. As far as running in a Christian Tri, I think it is all in fun and only a little different than any other tri. No one is controlling any of the athletes and you could get a little preaching. However, the same could happen in other triathlons. Christians are everywhere. I don't see it as a big deal. If someone makes you feel uncomfortable with a conversation, tell them to please leave you alone. If that doesn't work - slap the water bottle out of their hand! - sorry Michael I couldn't resist. |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I am always amazed by the controversy created whenever the word Christian is mentioned. All the dialogue is good but I can't believe it all started from an innocent and helpful FYI! Thanks again all for the helpful links. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() dovecom - 2005-08-10 10:10 PM so you're saying that none of the money from the race went to promote their ministry? Of course it did. And these guys get their income from the ministry. Ergo, the race pays their bills, so the money changer bit applies in spades. Do you know this? Sure money went to promote their ministry.. the 2006 Tri4God.. But I seriously doubt that any of this money is paying their bills.. dovecom - 2005-08-10 10:10 PM All ministers who are paid are suspect.... You know.. I think there may be SOME truth to this but I know many many ordained ministers. All of them get paid. Some of them are the best most genuine people that I've ever met. Some are not. Don't you think that ALL is the wrong word to use. You surely don't know ALL paid ministers. dovecom - 2005-08-10 10:10 PM Now the lay people do accomplish good things. They are the true body of the church and do the true work of the church. dovecom - 2005-08-10 10:10 PM So support a tri that donates to a real charity like MS or Breast Cancer and let the so-called Christian ministers scam old ladies and fat people on Sunday in church. Again.. This tri gives money to the Blair E. Batson Hospital for children. That is a real charity. As for the shirt-sleeve folks.. Don't move to the south cause you won't like it here. It is part of our culture. I'm not really one of these folks that you speak of but I don't really see anything wrong with sharing something that is important to you on the bumper of your car. Sure, there are people who are pretty evangelical about it and can sometimes be really intrusive. I don't much care for that either. Much of this is beside the point (to me) anyway.. some folks like to keep their faith private and personal.. and some enjoy the community of worshiping in church. To each his own... Christ fits into every Christian's life differently and that way is the right way for them. ws |
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Giver ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Heddo - 2005-08-11 8:43 AM I am always amazed by the controversy created whenever the word Christian is mentioned. All the dialogue is good but I can't believe it all started from an innocent and helpful FYI! Thanks again all for the helpful links. I agree that there is controversy, but I'm not amazed. It didn't used to be that way, though. In my opinion, it became a polarizing issue when some of us Christians made it a polarizing issue by injecting our beliefs into politics. It worsened during W's second election with the movement of the Christian right, and the push for a theocratic government. And that is rightfully threatening to a good many people, Christians and non-Christians alike. |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() People who wear their Christianity openly as s symbol to others. As opposed to secret societies. It's the "hi, hey do you have a church" types, or fish on the bumper, or honk for Jesus bumper sticker. My considerable experience is there is little actual belif beyond the superficial. It's like being in a club. Are you kidding me? I thought is was Christians that were suppossed to be the "judgemental" and "intolerant" ones? And if they're really good at preaching they get a 26,000 seat church and their own TV show. Eventually they also acquire a big-haired make-up painting wife, several big houses and a secretary with big boobs. it's the Evangelical way. How many churches of that size are there? How many total churches are there? The small percentage of churches is not a direct correlation due to effectiveness of the preaching. Some places have more people than space ... i.e., bigger churches are more economical. Larger churches usually offer A LOT more services that smaller ones, and are almost always able to accomodate more people, of all needs. I prefer a smaller church ... only because I like to get to know everyone there. I have attended larger churches before and it is just amazing how many different groups of people (youth, teens, single, married, older, parents, etc) they can accomodate with different teachings ona wide array of subjects. Of course, all of that come with increased cost. So support a tri that donates to a real charity like MS or Breast Cancer and let the so-called Christian ministers scam old ladies and fat people on Sunday in church. You know when you give money to a charity, sometimes they use it to pay the electric bills, buy new computers and technology, etc ... it doesn't always go directly to the patients or R&D. The solution is obvious ... never give to anyone. ------------------------ Is there any other groups that you would like to paint with your great big ol' negative paintbrush? Do you stereotype by race and gender ...or just religion? I have always been amazed by gifted people that can tell everything about a person or situation just by how it appears to them. Edited by TripleThreat 2005-08-11 2:34 PM |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() dovecom - 2005-08-10 10:10 PM Joshua11 - 2005-08-10 10:30 AM 2. never heard of "shirt-sleeve" Christianity 3. no agenda was promoted, just a good race put on by a local ministry 4. Christ threw out the money changers because they had turned a place of worship into a marketplace - hardly the same as a lake, T1/T2, etc. etc..... People who wear their Christianity openly as s symbol to others. As opposed to secret societies. It's the "hi, hey do you have a church" types, or fish on the bumper, or honk for Jesus bumper sticker. My considerable experience is there is little actual belif beyond the superficial. It's like being in a club. so you're saying that none of the money from the race went to promote their ministry? Of course it did. And these guys get their income from the ministry. Ergo, the race pays their bills, so the money changer bit applies in spades. All ministers who are paid are suspect. They will say and do whatever it takes to put bodies in the seats because their livelihood depends on it. And if you don't believe that is how they work, even on an uncouncsious level you are beyond naive. I'm not saying its bad, just reconginze that their is no altruism when money is involved. Everyone has an agenda. And if they're really good at preaching they get a 26,000 seat church and their own TV show. Eventually they also acquire a big-haired make-up painting wife, several big houses and a secretary with big boobs. it's the Evangelical way. Now the lay people do accomplish good things. Don't get me wrong. They just don't realize they're helping further some minister's career at the same time. So support a tri that donates to a real charity like MS or Breast Cancer and let the so-called Christian ministers scam old ladies and fat people on Sunday in church. Wow, that much anger cannot be healthy. You know, it doesn't have to be that way. |
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Extreme Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Michael, Good to hear from you again! Thanks for the update on that site. I get a chance to go to Taylorsville, MS and Laurel, MS for work (close to Hattiesburg). Hopefully I can meet or talk with Doug sometime. We are VERY blessed here in NC to not have to race on Sundays but I have gone to a Sunday race and there was a similiar organization called Playbook for Life. Both groups are doing an awesome work for the Lord and as a Christian it is great to see that in a sport I care so much about. Fred |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() That guy who said ministers should not be paid should actually read the Bible. It says pretty clearly in I believe Pauls letter to the Corinthians (may be wrong book) that ministers/spiritual leaders are well within thier rights to earn a wage from what they do. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Det - 2005-08-11 9:29 PM That guy who said ministers should not be paid should actually read the Bible. It says pretty clearly in I believe Pauls letter to the Corinthians (may be wrong book) that ministers/spiritual leaders are well within thier rights to earn a wage from what they do. It also says that people should pray and worship in secret, ie quietly in private or in church. So that means all this "ministering" which is actually litle more than advertising is all counter to the faith. There are also religious passages that suggest ministers should never accept money, that women shouldn't be educated, that adulterers should be stoned, etc. So using the bible to run one's life is clearly a flawed strategy. None of it was written when Jesus supposedly lived anyway, so it either reflects the meandering thoughts of superstitious old men, or the vague memories of paranoid clerics. Neither is a good foundation for lifestyle. But hey, if it floats your boat. I prefer truth and science to folklore and superstition. Anyway, my point was not not to knock those who need religion in order to curb their fear, but rather those who use it to make a living while somehow convincing others that it's their "mission". It's multi-level marketing taken to the nth degree. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Miko - 2005-08-10 4:43 PM I can't resist weighing in on this point. I'm not an evangelical Christian, but I know the Bible pretty well, and my studies of folklore and anthropology have helped me understand a lot of belief systems better. It always bothers me when people make statements about religious texts and beliefs without thorough knowledge of them. Often, to my surprise, even evangelical Christians have a poor knowledge of the Bible's contents and tend to get much of their information out of context, from preaching. Not only is the statement above about poverty not an accurate represtation of Buddhism, it's not even an accurate statement about the Christian Bible. Points about poverty are addressed directly by Jesus in the Gospels, most particularly in Matthew's account of the Sermon on the Mount. One very straightforward passage is quoted below: 21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." 22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. 23Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." 25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?" 26Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." i was reading along and got stopped on your post, i dont know if anyone addressed this,but I'm at work and dont know if i'll have time to after reading the whole thread. I just wanted to mention that these verses are being used out of context. Jesus wasnt addressing poverty in general, but THIS man's HEART. The guy walked away from God because he had so much money..and ultimately LOVE for that. God wants your whole heart, not some of it...not one day a week...Everything. This guy couldnt see himself without his money and wasnt willing to give it up to follow Jesus around for a few years. Silly decision if Jesus was who he said he was... God doesnt "call" humanity to poverty. He tells us to feed and clothe the poor. Personally, I dont think God gives a rip about how much money we have...His thoughts are higher than that. He's more concerned with where your heart is... He didnt say "money was the root of all evil.." but "THE LOVE of money was the root of all evil" I'd have to agree with that. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() dovecom - 2005-08-10 10:10 PM Joshua11 - 2005-08-10 10:30 AM 2. never heard of "shirt-sleeve" Christianity 3. no agenda was promoted, just a good race put on by a local ministry 4. Christ threw out the money changers because they had turned a place of worship into a marketplace - hardly the same as a lake, T1/T2, etc. etc..... People who wear their Christianity openly as s symbol to others. As opposed to secret societies. It's the "hi, hey do you have a church" types, or fish on the bumper, or honk for Jesus bumper sticker. My considerable experience is there is little actual belif beyond the superficial. It's like being in a club. so you're saying that none of the money from the race went to promote their ministry? Of course it did. And these guys get their income from the ministry. Ergo, the race pays their bills, so the money changer bit applies in spades. All ministers who are paid are suspect. They will say and do whatever it takes to put bodies in the seats because their livelihood depends on it. And if you don't believe that is how they work, even on an uncouncsious level you are beyond naive. I'm not saying its bad, just reconginze that their is no altruism when money is involved. Everyone has an agenda. And if they're really good at preaching they get a 26,000 seat church and their own TV show. Eventually they also acquire a big-haired make-up painting wife, several big houses and a secretary with big boobs. it's the Evangelical way. Now the lay people do accomplish good things. Don't get me wrong. They just don't realize they're helping further some minister's career at the same time. So support a tri that donates to a real charity like MS or Breast Cancer and let the so-called Christian ministers scam old ladies and fat people on Sunday in church. This is why i HATE televangelists... THIS guy has missed the point... His perspective of Christianity obliterated because of a few. Hey Dovecom, I understand what youre saying. I'm not going to browbeat you for this perspective. I struggle with it to. Paul worked as a tentmaker while he ministered. Sometimes Pastors lose touch with the world because they arent out in the workplace being "one of us" I find myself sometimes on either side of the fence..I also understand that ministering to people is a 24 hour a day job. At any point you'll find yourself in the hospital with a member, or having to be called out to do a funeral. Personally, for me, paying ministers is just like paying my insurance policy..I do it, so that someday, when i need mine..>he'll be there for me. But I DO see where youre coming from...and i still cringe when i drive by christian bookstores...its a complicated thing in my heart...I'm not saying its wrong..I'm just saying...its not totally right... |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() dovecom - 2005-08-12 7:01 AM Det - 2005-08-11 9:29 PM That guy who said ministers should not be paid should actually read the Bible. It says pretty clearly in I believe Pauls letter to the Corinthians (may be wrong book) that ministers/spiritual leaders are well within thier rights to earn a wage from what they do. It also says that people should pray and worship in secret, ie quietly in private or in church. So that means all this "ministering" which is actually litle more than advertising is all counter to the faith. There are also religious passages that suggest ministers should never accept money, that women shouldn't be educated, that adulterers should be stoned, etc. So using the bible to run one's life is clearly a flawed strategy. None of it was written when Jesus supposedly lived anyway, so it either reflects the meandering thoughts of superstitious old men, or the vague memories of paranoid clerics. Neither is a good foundation for lifestyle. But hey, if it floats your boat. I prefer truth and science to folklore and superstition. Anyway, my point was not not to knock those who need religion in order to curb their fear, but rather those who use it to make a living while somehow convincing others that it's their "mission". It's multi-level marketing taken to the nth degree. Wow...You've got some bitterness floating around in there or something... I was a missionary for a couple years...I made a whopping 700$ a month... Yeah...those were the days... Dovecom, if you were at work, and secretly learned that there were noxious gases floating around in the air and the only way out was to accept an invitation from the boss to slide out his window... would you not tell your coworkers? Pretty heartless man. |
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Member![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Jiggies - 2005-08-12 4:25 AM Dovecom, if you were at work, and secretly learned that there were noxious gases floating around in the air and the only way out was to accept an invitation from the boss to slide out his window... would you not tell your coworkers? Pretty heartless man. I don't see what this has to do with anything Dovecom said. |
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