Video games & TV - Desenstizing? (Page 3)

That's funny!

"you guys".  So, not you, by basically making the leap that some some people by debating they don't feel there is a connection between images and violence therefore must think it's acceptable for kids to see it.

And are you really going for a "debate" if it was your intent to change our minds?  Seems yours is equally unchangeble.

I think it's amusing to begin an argument/debate with the intent to change minds as you say, and if it doesn't go your way...  It US that derail any sense of debate!  So if we agree, it's not derailed, and if we don't agree, it is.

Gotcha.

With the proliferation of violent video games, and the question of whether or not they desensitize children to violence (which would likely cause an increase in violence, no??).....I'm just going to pretend you didn't write that.

As for your UCR comments.....would you like me to break it down by age so your baby boomer comment becomes irrelevant?  EVERY generation becomes less violent as it ages.  Violent crime is down across the board.....it just is....nobody really knows why.  Most experts expect that it should be higher.

As for your grant comments.....ok, equate subjective polls and "studies" with actual medical science...no problem. 

Look.....I get it...I read it here constantly....the country is in a death spiral.....we are all doomed!!!!!

FOR THE FOURTH TIME.....nevermind.

OK.

Let's say I agree that movies and video games desesnitize people.  What do you propose we do next?

Ban them?  Burn them?  Rate them?  (they already are)  Who judges what's bad enough to not made into a game/Movie?TV show?  The person who played ONCE and didn't like it?  The hard core gamers that love them?

So, you think you identified a problem.  Is that all was intended or is there a proposed solution somewhere in there?  Or do we observe more?  Do more studies?

I dont think TriRSquared said that games should be banned on his original post.

Even if video games wouldnt desesnitize children, parents should do a better job at controlling the access that children have to violent video games and tv programming.  This is where i think the biggest problem lies. It is not the majority of parents, but a lot of them are guilty of this.  You can not go to a movie theather without seeing 5 or 6 kids that are way to young to be watching that given movie.

There was a case in south florida a few years ago, where an 11 year old, or somewhere around that age,  killed a much younger neighbor that was over at his house.  This happened while trying to duplicate a wrestling move from a video game.

I know he didn't.  That's why I asked it.

Yes, it's more about the parents.

As a side note.  I used to watch "Wrestling at the Chase" in St Louis as a kid.  Nature Boy Rick Flare, The junkyard dog, The Von Erichs, etc.  My brother and I would clear the carpet and play "Wrestling at the Chase" and once I flipped him and he hit his head on the radiator.  Needed stitches and could have been worse.  Just saying, boys will be boys.  We also jumped off the garage roof, jumped our bikes off of ramps in the streets, etc.  I think we just "did" those things.  I don't think TV or games (they didn't exist back then) desensitized us to the potential danger.  We basically didn't know or care about the danger and just did it to each other and ourselves.

Sorry, I was out watching the new Batman movie and desensitizing myself to violence and anarchy...

Actually, there is very good evidence that too much "screen time", which includes video games, in general, is associated with increased behavioral problems. And there is at least anecdotal evidence that playing videogames does improve real life skills. I am aware of at least one military pilot who learned a lot of basics playing flight simulator programs, and that is now the basis of further study for more cheaply training future pilots before putting them into expensive planes burning expensive fuel. And the percentage of soldiers in more recent wars who shoot at the enemy is higher than in pre-video game days - a phenomenon attributed in part to exposure in video games.

And also, there is some evidence that the more realistic videogames can be used to treat soldiers with PTSD as a form of exposure, suggesting again that the emotional reactions can be elicited through them.

But you realize, TriRSquared, if we keep on finding points of agreement, the Mayan calender will be more correct....

Left Brain

Lets start with the advent of realistic violent video games is is relatively new, the last decade or so, so how can you gauge the effects fully as of yet. just because violence ia going down does not mean violent tendencies are going down in children exposed to these games that was my point. There are nmerous variables that go into the reduction of crime statistics as I mentioned. If x goes down by 4 due to a combination of a,b,c effects and goes up because of d effect you still have an overall reduction in crime statistics do you not. If you want to do the analysis controlling for all other factors then those statistics become relevant but not until that analysis and control has been done. Then again you yourself said noone know the reason for the reductions that have been occuring so controling for that factor is going to be difficult. Statistics have a great deal of power but they also have limitations and can be misleading.

I don't know where I showed anything that can be considered a "subjective poll or study". I linked actaual controlled experiments. Psych experiments are somewhat differet than the kind i do on a regular basis but then again the community frowns on treating human subjects as harsly as we treat cells, killing human subjects for study is generally frowned upon. That however does not make them "subjective polls", they are controlled experiments. Most research in both the hard and the soft sciences are grant funded that does not mke them worthless. As a matter of fact that tends to lend them credence as the NIH rarely has an ax to grind against video games.

Are we in a death spiral.... ah i dont think so. We are more like on a pendulum swing as we often are. We will continue to swing around and around under our own collective power. I am sorry if you don't like my answers and i"m sorry you don't like the findings of the research i pointed out but hiding from the results just cause people do'nt like them or dont want to hear them does noone any good.

To be perfectly clear NOWHERE have I said violent video games make non-violent people into killers. I said vilent video games have an effect. there are many, many, many things that have an effect btut the question was not about those things. I gave answers to the question posited. I made no moral judgements about those who do or do not play such games. the reason I chose to go from Chemistry to Biology is simple: the human animal is an intricately complex machine where input A plus input B will not alway yeild outcome C. Studying human behavior is magnitudes more complex than that. Anyone who has spent anytime studying science knows as the systems become more and more complex the answers become fuzzier and fuzzier when asking How do those complexities interact?".

I personally think the bolded part may be a bigger cause versus the violence itself.  There are tons of kids now who are living their entire childhood in a virtual world of goblins and dragons and struggle to thrive in the real world.  My wife has a brother who is 27 and he still lives at home with mom and dad playing video games all day and night.  overweight, never had a girlfriend, etc... you know the type.

Is he prone to violence?  no, i don't think so but is he an outcast that could easily be pushed over the edge by the real world?  I would say yes.

All I really know is that in the 60's the "experts" said that rock and roll would be the death of us all....somehow we survived. 

You all are fun.....I laughed out loud when TriSquared asked where the mental health pros were.....that's good stuff.

On the other hand, Trinnas, I didn't read your loooong post.....maybe tommorrow.  My ADD kicked in right when I was going to read it and I watched a moth flitting around our dining room light. 

Why is that?  You and I are certainly not experts in that area. I would tend to give people who work in that area a bit more credence than a mechanical engineer and a... well I'm not sure what your profession is but you get my point...

Man do I love the rock and roll reference.  You're right, nothing to be worried about. 

Why is it that everyone (reasonably sure on this) will understand that a young boy or girl will become smarter if he/she reads a book per week, but doesn't believe there could be adverse effects from playing violent video games every day?

More and more I believe Mike Judge was prophetic . . . (See link)

Well it's tomorrow soooo...... Oooh look squirrel!

I don't recall any mental health experts saying that in the 60's. Perhaps you are confusing Wertham's overblown claims about comic books in the 1950's. The individual claims by a single psychiatrist from over a half century ago. Or maybe you are thinking of Tipper Gore's worries from the 1980's over explicit lyrics affecting children - which had more to do with parents than anyone from mental health.

In general, psychiatry is not practiced as it was in the first half of the 20th century - with single case histories being used to create grand theories. We actually do studies on large populations and then subject the data to review and replication. Like anything else in science and medicine, sometimes ideas are promoted that turn out incorrect (when my kids were babies, we put them to sleep on their bellies as it was thought that it prevented infant deaths from vomiting and chocking - now we teach people that "back to sleep" - sleeping on their backs - is better. Just one example).

Anyway, I've quoted my original response, with the citations in place. If you are going to laugh at/reject the information, at least have the courtesy to see where it comes from and make specific criticisms of the data.

Actually, there is very good evidence that too much "screen time", which includes video games, in general, is associated with increased behavioral problems. And there is at least anecdotal evidence that playing videogames does improve real life skills. I am aware of at least one military pilot who learned a lot of basics playing flight simulator programs, and that is now the basis of further study for more cheaply training future pilots before putting them into expensive planes burning expensive fuel. And the percentage of soldiers in more recent wars who shoot at the enemy is higher than in pre-video game days - a phenomenon attributed in part to exposure in video games.

And also, there is some evidence that the more realistic videogames can be used to treat soldiers with PTSD as a form of exposure, suggesting again that the emotional reactions can be elicited through them.

Addendum - my data on using flight simulators is apparently old news - from over 10 years ago. And it is no longer being studied, but is actually in use. Now I feel old.

Gearboy would you let your kids (or maybe grandkids now) play violent video games? Or at what age would the limit be?

Still haven't read it........I was born without the curiousity gene.

relax bro....my comment about laughing at Trisquared when he mentioned the mental health pros was in response to him apparently thinking we needed one since we couldn't get his point.

Unfortunately....I'm Irish....you know what Freud said about us and psychoanalysis.

And no, I won't likely read any of the studies you put up.  I've never found them to be useful.  My kids have video games.....I don't find it difficult to help them balance the time they spend doing that with the time they spend doing school work, swimming, running, playing ball, dancing, whatever.

I have spent 26 years dealing with the public whenever individuals or groups become dysfunctional in some way......I'm pretty clear on what I see....it's all one big study.

My kids have no interest in violent videogames. Unless you count the "violence" that occurs in the Lego games. Some of those lego explosions can be pretty grim...

Actually, we would follow the same rules we followed for TV and movies. We use the rating systems as a starting point, since it helps to set clear boundaries and expectations. Thus, at least w/r/t movies, they did not watch anything rated PG-13 until they were 13, and nothing R until they were 17. In addition, the "house rules" included no screens in bedrooms (TV, computer) for anyone - including the master bedroom - unless you were sick enough (fever >100, vomiting, diarrhea) to warrant staying home in bed the whole day. They certainly never walked around like kids I see in my office, with their handheld device constantly in use, even when they had them. 

No grandkids yet, but the first set of rules will the those of the parents. If my rules are MORE restrictive, then my rules in my house. But if my rules are more relaxed, then Mom and Dad's rules hold. But I suspect that the use of videogame ratings as a starting point will be true. Which means for the most part, first person shooter games will be limited to 13 or 17 as a starting point. And then it will depend on the level of maturity and judgment shown up to that point to gain access and keep it.

Makes sense.

We do the same at our house.....it's huge!  It almost guarantees plenty of family time and interaction.

Sorry, way too many replies to read them all.  However, I believe 100 percent that TV and video games are densensitizing...for kids and adults.  However; I don't believe it will create a serial killer or mass murderer.  There always have been and always will be sick people, long before video games and TV.

That said, I do think that TV and video games influence behaviors in a negative manner.  I am 51 years old and have never played any of the killing video games...it does not interest be at all.  My kids (10 and 13) are only allowed limited time with video games and never games that promote violence, other than boxing with X-Box.  Not so difficult for my daughter but there has been some resistance with my son.  Recently we didn't allow him to go to a birthday party because the theme was a video game we do not approve of.  The same goes for movies for the most part, but there have been a few movies that the kids have watched (Spiderman, Hulk, Ironman, Avengers, etc) that we have watch with our kids, but nothing that is too graphic.  And we have always discussed with them what is reality and what is not.

I agree parenting is a "defining factor".  Unfortunately, most every parent believe that they are parenting well...even parents that let their kids play video games 2-3 hours a day and watch graphic violence on a regular basis.