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 2012-12-13 1:43 PM in reply to: #4534075 |
Pro  4313   McKinney, TX |  Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again?Big Appa - 2012-12-13 1:38 PM bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 11:27 AM But it's PUBLIC.....there is no expectation of privacy in PUBLIC. Tomorrow at 9am, I'm going to be making tin-foil hats. They will come in different shapes and sizes. Let me know if you want any designs (Mickey ears, swan, Longhorns, etc) and I'll do my best. So you are ok with someone using a camera to look up skirts while out in public? They are in public so it's free to all right? Did you post a sign that said "skirts may be looked up"? If so....then you're pervy. If not....well...you're pervy. Just because you have the mentality of an 8th grade boy, doesnt' make your case. BTW...I'm going to need a copy of that recording. |
| 2012-12-13 1:43 PM in reply to: #4534072 |
Champion 34263  Chicago | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 1:38 PM mr2tony - 2012-12-13 1:32 PM bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 1:31 PM mr2tony - 2012-12-13 1:27 PM Sorry. Didn't mean to derail this one and start yet another gun thread! Stick with the facts, son. As a reporter for a liberal organization, I know that's hard. So....on your tin foil hat.....would you like a Cowboys Star or a "N" for Nebraska? Can't I have both? Why are you putting restrictions on my freedom of choice of logo? Very Typical Tony.....I offer a choice and you want both. Such a democrat. I bet you want it for free too? So....I have to pay for it but give it to you for free. Typical Republican. I bet you want to have it made in a small southeast Asian country by children in a sweatshop making 4 cents a day, then sell it to me for an outrageous amount so your CEO can buy another friggin' yacht! |
| 2012-12-13 1:44 PM in reply to: #4534078 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? Left Brain - 2012-12-13 1:39 PM Really, cameras are nothing. There are now license plate readers......they capture your plate as you drive by and send your information to us via terminal. You ready for this scenario: We (the govt.) set up a plate reader at a major intersection. Your name and address from your registration is sent to our mobile terminals. We take your name and address and enter you into one of the monstrous databases now available to us (or we program the reader to do it for us). I an instant, as you drive by, I know where you live, where you work, what your income was reported the last quarter, where you bank, if you have a CCW license, what your spouse and children's names are, where your spouse works, every address you have ever used, every credit card you have ever used, and on and on. This isn't something that is coming down the road.....it's here, I've watched it. Feel safe? I'm not affected. I don't own a car.  |
| 2012-12-13 1:46 PM in reply to: #4534088 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? mr2tony - 2012-12-13 1:44 PM Left Brain - 2012-12-13 1:39 PM I'm not affected. I don't own a car. Really, cameras are nothing. There are now license plate readers......they capture your plate as you drive by and send your information to us via terminal. You ready for this scenario: We (the govt.) set up a plate reader at a major intersection. Your name and address from your registration is sent to our mobile terminals. We take your name and address and enter you into one of the monstrous databases now available to us (or we program the reader to do it for us). I an instant, as you drive by, I know where you live, where you work, what your income was reported the last quarter, where you bank, if you have a CCW license, what your spouse and children's names are, where your spouse works, every address you have ever used, every credit card you have ever used, and on and on. This isn't something that is coming down the road.....it's here, I've watched it. Feel safe? It could be programmed to read the plate in your head. |
| 2012-12-13 1:47 PM in reply to: #4534091 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? Left Brain - 2012-12-13 1:46 PM mr2tony - 2012-12-13 1:44 PM Left Brain - 2012-12-13 1:39 PM I'm not affected. I don't own a car. Really, cameras are nothing. There are now license plate readers......they capture your plate as you drive by and send your information to us via terminal. You ready for this scenario: We (the govt.) set up a plate reader at a major intersection. Your name and address from your registration is sent to our mobile terminals. We take your name and address and enter you into one of the monstrous databases now available to us (or we program the reader to do it for us). I an instant, as you drive by, I know where you live, where you work, what your income was reported the last quarter, where you bank, if you have a CCW license, what your spouse and children's names are, where your spouse works, every address you have ever used, every credit card you have ever used, and on and on. This isn't something that is coming down the road.....it's here, I've watched it. Feel safe? It could be programmed to read the plate in your head. Wait. How'd YOU know I have a plate in my head!? |
| 2012-12-13 1:48 PM in reply to: #4534087 |
Pro 4313 McKinney, TX | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? mr2tony - 2012-12-13 1:43 PM bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 1:38 PM Very Typical Tony.....I offer a choice and you want both. Such a democrat. I bet you want it for free too? So....I have to pay for it but give it to you for free. Typical Republican. I bet you want to have it made in a small southeast Asian country by children in a sweatshop making 4 cents a day, then sell it to me for an outrageous amount so your CEO can buy another friggin' yacht! If workers didn't DEMAND $15 an hour and complain about this/that (which is really someone who is lazy and probably didn't take initiative when they can) then I wouldn't have to outsource my product. Heaven forbid I work hard all thru life so some lazy liberal can complain about the life they made. And.....they shouldn't expect privacy when they're at work. My house, my rules. Don't like it....leave. |
| 2012-12-13 1:49 PM in reply to: #4533735 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? It's almost scary how much we are tracked on a daily basis and many people don't even realize it. My company sells and installs IT stuff and in order to more efficiently manage our customers computers we have software on them that "collects data" and has remote access. I have a number of engineers that have access to the hard drives of literally thousands of PC's all over the US. These are all business PC's and laptops, but they're taken home and used for personal stuff too. We can remote in, do screenshots, install software, you name it. i just met with a large client yesterday that's we're selling them Mobile Device Management software to track their employees company issued phones and ipads. You'd freak out at the amount of data the employer has access to and I can guarantee you the employees have no idea the software is even on their device because their permission is buried in some company paperwork/policy they signed but never read. |
| 2012-12-13 1:52 PM in reply to: #4534098 |
Pro 4313 McKinney, TX | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? tuwood - 2012-12-13 1:49 PM It's almost scary how much we are tracked on a daily basis and many people don't even realize it. My company sells and installs IT stuff and in order to more efficiently manage our customers computers we have software on them that "collects data" and has remote access. I have a number of engineers that have access to the hard drives of literally thousands of PC's all over the US. These are all business PC's and laptops, but they're taken home and used for personal stuff too. We can remote in, do screenshots, install software, you name it. i just met with a large client yesterday that's we're selling them Mobile Device Management software to track their employees company issued phones and ipads. You'd freak out at the amount of data the employer has access to and I can guarantee you the employees have no idea the software is even on their device because their permission is buried in some company paperwork/policy they signed but never read. But just a second ago, you were talking about 4A being trashed....and now you're bragging about "collecting data". Pick a side. |
| 2012-12-13 1:56 PM in reply to: #4534107 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 1:52 PM tuwood - 2012-12-13 1:49 PM It's almost scary how much we are tracked on a daily basis and many people don't even realize it. My company sells and installs IT stuff and in order to more efficiently manage our customers computers we have software on them that "collects data" and has remote access. I have a number of engineers that have access to the hard drives of literally thousands of PC's all over the US. These are all business PC's and laptops, but they're taken home and used for personal stuff too. We can remote in, do screenshots, install software, you name it. i just met with a large client yesterday that's we're selling them Mobile Device Management software to track their employees company issued phones and ipads. You'd freak out at the amount of data the employer has access to and I can guarantee you the employees have no idea the software is even on their device because their permission is buried in some company paperwork/policy they signed but never read. But just a second ago, you were talking about 4A being trashed....and now you're bragging about "collecting data". Pick a side. There's no expectation to privacy from a company. There is from the government. |
| 2012-12-13 1:57 PM in reply to: #4534113 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? mr2tony - 2012-12-13 1:56 PM bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 1:52 PM There's no expectation to privacy from a company. There is from the government. tuwood - 2012-12-13 1:49 PM But just a second ago, you were talking about 4A being trashed....and now you're bragging about "collecting data". Pick a side. It's almost scary how much we are tracked on a daily basis and many people don't even realize it. My company sells and installs IT stuff and in order to more efficiently manage our customers computers we have software on them that "collects data" and has remote access. I have a number of engineers that have access to the hard drives of literally thousands of PC's all over the US. These are all business PC's and laptops, but they're taken home and used for personal stuff too. We can remote in, do screenshots, install software, you name it. i just met with a large client yesterday that's we're selling them Mobile Device Management software to track their employees company issued phones and ipads. You'd freak out at the amount of data the employer has access to and I can guarantee you the employees have no idea the software is even on their device because their permission is buried in some company paperwork/policy they signed but never read. That's right....but where do you think the govt. gets the information from? |
| 2012-12-13 1:58 PM in reply to: #4534113 |
Pro 4313 McKinney, TX | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? mr2tony - 2012-12-13 1:56 PM bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 1:52 PM tuwood - 2012-12-13 1:49 PM It's almost scary how much we are tracked on a daily basis and many people don't even realize it. My company sells and installs IT stuff and in order to more efficiently manage our customers computers we have software on them that "collects data" and has remote access. I have a number of engineers that have access to the hard drives of literally thousands of PC's all over the US. These are all business PC's and laptops, but they're taken home and used for personal stuff too. We can remote in, do screenshots, install software, you name it. i just met with a large client yesterday that's we're selling them Mobile Device Management software to track their employees company issued phones and ipads. You'd freak out at the amount of data the employer has access to and I can guarantee you the employees have no idea the software is even on their device because their permission is buried in some company paperwork/policy they signed but never read. But just a second ago, you were talking about 4A being trashed....and now you're bragging about "collecting data". Pick a side. There's no expectation to privacy from a company. There is from the government. 4A Reads: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized Where....in any form here....do you see anything about privacy in public? Where do you see anything about being secure in public? House, persons, papers, etc.....cannot be searched. You libtards are all the same. Tin foil hats and want to limit guns. |
| 2012-12-13 2:00 PM in reply to: #4534041 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 12:27 PM powerman - 2012-12-13 1:19 PM But it's PUBLIC.....there is no expectation of privacy in PUBLIC. Tomorrow at 9am, I'm going to be making tin-foil hats. They will come in different shapes and sizes. Let me know if you want any designs (Mickey ears, swan, Longhorns, etc) and I'll do my best. bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 12:08 PM mr2tony - 2012-12-13 11:51 AM Sure it keeps us safe. How many times do you hear of a "thwarted terrorist plot" or an undercover agent giving a 'bomb' to someone then arresting them. Do you think that they just happen upon this stuff? No....they catch them doing something or having a conversation or typing on a message board. As unfortunate as it is....you should not have an expectation of privacy in public. If you're having a conversation about bombing a school.....and an undercover cop happens to be near working an unrelated case, does that mean that he shouldn't have heard you? Again.....if you're living right, you don't have to worry. Aarondb4 - 2012-12-13 11:49 AM The thing is that it doesn't keep them safe. It does nothing but waste money. It provides a false sense of security, just like taking off your shoes at the airport or allowing `random' searches at train stations.
All well and good to slowly trample the constitution. People go along because it will "keep them safe" or they "have nothing to hide". What happens 25-50 years later when all this is in place and the rest of the constitution has been gutted? Welcome to the police state. It's called "probable cause". You can't just investigate someone for no reason... you have to have a reason. That is the problem... they have no reason... they are just throwing out a big net and seeing what they catch. That is not Constitutional. And no I'm not OK just allowing the government to just ignore the Constitution. I understand I can be on a surveillance tape for an number of reasons. At store or cameras... but they are not turning that over to the "State" to get me.. it's just store security, and if the place is robber... or a crime COMMITTED, then they use it to catch the guy. That is fine... probable cause. But to listen and record people for no reason, then it isn't right.... and the problem with all of this is your very attitude... ya it's all good when it does not effect you... but then years down the road someone else starts using it for their own reasons and all of a sudden we have no control and the reason it's so good anymore... and then you are in jail against your Constitutional rights because of some misunderstanding... and then you want a lawyer.... but you can't have that either... There is an expectation the GOVERNMENT is not going to be INVESTIGATING me for no reason. Has nothing to do with me being in "public"... I have no expectation to privacy in public so I don't pull down my pants expecting it. I have full expectation that I am covered under the forth to unreasonable SEARCH and seizure without cause. |
| 2012-12-13 2:00 PM in reply to: #4534107 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 1:52 PM tuwood - 2012-12-13 1:49 PM But just a second ago, you were talking about 4A being trashed....and now you're bragging about "collecting data". Pick a side. It's almost scary how much we are tracked on a daily basis and many people don't even realize it. My company sells and installs IT stuff and in order to more efficiently manage our customers computers we have software on them that "collects data" and has remote access. I have a number of engineers that have access to the hard drives of literally thousands of PC's all over the US. These are all business PC's and laptops, but they're taken home and used for personal stuff too. We can remote in, do screenshots, install software, you name it. i just met with a large client yesterday that's we're selling them Mobile Device Management software to track their employees company issued phones and ipads. You'd freak out at the amount of data the employer has access to and I can guarantee you the employees have no idea the software is even on their device because their permission is buried in some company paperwork/policy they signed but never read. Not bragging at all, just stating a fact about how far technology is pushing the envelope. My example is about corporations managing their assets, the 4th amendment is about people going to jail. |
| 2012-12-13 2:01 PM in reply to: #4534115 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? Left Brain - 2012-12-13 1:57 PM mr2tony - 2012-12-13 1:56 PM bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 1:52 PM There's no expectation to privacy from a company. There is from the government. tuwood - 2012-12-13 1:49 PM But just a second ago, you were talking about 4A being trashed....and now you're bragging about "collecting data". Pick a side. It's almost scary how much we are tracked on a daily basis and many people don't even realize it. My company sells and installs IT stuff and in order to more efficiently manage our customers computers we have software on them that "collects data" and has remote access. I have a number of engineers that have access to the hard drives of literally thousands of PC's all over the US. These are all business PC's and laptops, but they're taken home and used for personal stuff too. We can remote in, do screenshots, install software, you name it. i just met with a large client yesterday that's we're selling them Mobile Device Management software to track their employees company issued phones and ipads. You'd freak out at the amount of data the employer has access to and I can guarantee you the employees have no idea the software is even on their device because their permission is buried in some company paperwork/policy they signed but never read. That's right....but where do you think the govt. gets the information from? I would hope companies wouldn't be giving it to them. Maybe I'm jaded but isn't that illegal? |
| 2012-12-13 2:02 PM in reply to: #4534119 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 1:58 PM mr2tony - 2012-12-13 1:56 PM 4A Reads: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized Where....in any form here....do you see anything about privacy in public? Where do you see anything about being secure in public? House, persons, papers, etc.....cannot be searched. You libtards are all the same. Tin foil hats and want to limit guns. bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 1:52 PM There's no expectation to privacy from a company. There is from the government. tuwood - 2012-12-13 1:49 PM But just a second ago, you were talking about 4A being trashed....and now you're bragging about "collecting data". Pick a side. It's almost scary how much we are tracked on a daily basis and many people don't even realize it. My company sells and installs IT stuff and in order to more efficiently manage our customers computers we have software on them that "collects data" and has remote access. I have a number of engineers that have access to the hard drives of literally thousands of PC's all over the US. These are all business PC's and laptops, but they're taken home and used for personal stuff too. We can remote in, do screenshots, install software, you name it. i just met with a large client yesterday that's we're selling them Mobile Device Management software to track their employees company issued phones and ipads. You'd freak out at the amount of data the employer has access to and I can guarantee you the employees have no idea the software is even on their device because their permission is buried in some company paperwork/policy they signed but never read. The courts have ruled very plainly, time and again, that when you are on company property, as an employee, or in the case Tuwood provided, using company property, you have no expectatioon of privacy from that company in that scope. |
| 2012-12-13 2:02 PM in reply to: #4534075 |
| Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? Big Appa - 2012-12-13 11:38 AM bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 11:27 AM But it's PUBLIC.....there is no expectation of privacy in PUBLIC. Tomorrow at 9am, I'm going to be making tin-foil hats. They will come in different shapes and sizes. Let me know if you want any designs (Mickey ears, swan, Longhorns, etc) and I'll do my best. So you are ok with someone using a camera to look up skirts while out in public? They are in public so it's free to all right? You're parsing to make a point. I see what you are doing, but it doesn't work. I have a right to privacy, for examlpe, of what is in my pocket, even if I am on a public street For example, the seminal case on the issue from the 60s overturned lower courts and excluded evidence obtained by placing a bug on the outside of a telephone booth. SCOTUS held that once the door is closed, one has an obectively reasonable (and subjective) expectation of privacy Try again |
| 2012-12-13 2:03 PM in reply to: #4534119 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 1:58 PM mr2tony - 2012-12-13 1:56 PM bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 1:52 PM tuwood - 2012-12-13 1:49 PM It's almost scary how much we are tracked on a daily basis and many people don't even realize it. My company sells and installs IT stuff and in order to more efficiently manage our customers computers we have software on them that "collects data" and has remote access. I have a number of engineers that have access to the hard drives of literally thousands of PC's all over the US. These are all business PC's and laptops, but they're taken home and used for personal stuff too. We can remote in, do screenshots, install software, you name it. i just met with a large client yesterday that's we're selling them Mobile Device Management software to track their employees company issued phones and ipads. You'd freak out at the amount of data the employer has access to and I can guarantee you the employees have no idea the software is even on their device because their permission is buried in some company paperwork/policy they signed but never read. But just a second ago, you were talking about 4A being trashed....and now you're bragging about "collecting data". Pick a side. There's no expectation to privacy from a company. There is from the government. 4A Reads: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized Where....in any form here....do you see anything about privacy in public? Where do you see anything about being secure in public? House, persons, papers, etc.....cannot be searched. You libtards are all the same. Tin foil hats and want to limit guns. "The makers of our Constitution understood the need to secure conditions favorable to the pursuit of happiness, and the protections guaranteed by this are much broader in scope, and include the right to life and an inviolate personality -- the right to be left alone -- the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men. The principle underlying the Fourth and Fifth Amendments is protection against invasions of the sanctities of a man's home and privacies of life. This is a recognition of the significance of man's spiritual nature, his feelings, and his intellect." -- Justice Brandeis. Olmstead v. US Your right-wingers are all the same, a lot of talk without much research. |
| 2012-12-13 2:04 PM in reply to: #4534126 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? mr2tony - 2012-12-13 2:01 PM Left Brain - 2012-12-13 1:57 PM I would hope companies wouldn't be giving it to them. Maybe I'm jaded but isn't that illegal? mr2tony - 2012-12-13 1:56 PM bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 1:52 PM There's no expectation to privacy from a company. There is from the government. tuwood - 2012-12-13 1:49 PM But just a second ago, you were talking about 4A being trashed....and now you're bragging about "collecting data". Pick a side. It's almost scary how much we are tracked on a daily basis and many people don't even realize it. My company sells and installs IT stuff and in order to more efficiently manage our customers computers we have software on them that "collects data" and has remote access. I have a number of engineers that have access to the hard drives of literally thousands of PC's all over the US. These are all business PC's and laptops, but they're taken home and used for personal stuff too. We can remote in, do screenshots, install software, you name it. i just met with a large client yesterday that's we're selling them Mobile Device Management software to track their employees company issued phones and ipads. You'd freak out at the amount of data the employer has access to and I can guarantee you the employees have no idea the software is even on their device because their permission is buried in some company paperwork/policy they signed but never read. That's right....but where do you think the govt. gets the information from? They don't give it, they sell it. They sell it to companies that put together giant databases.....those companies then sell those databases to the govt. (FBI, police depts., etc.) |
| 2012-12-13 2:05 PM in reply to: #4534123 |
| Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? powerman - 2012-12-13 12:00 PM bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 12:27 PM powerman - 2012-12-13 1:19 PM But it's PUBLIC.....there is no expectation of privacy in PUBLIC. Tomorrow at 9am, I'm going to be making tin-foil hats. They will come in different shapes and sizes. Let me know if you want any designs (Mickey ears, swan, Longhorns, etc) and I'll do my best. bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 12:08 PM mr2tony - 2012-12-13 11:51 AM Sure it keeps us safe. How many times do you hear of a "thwarted terrorist plot" or an undercover agent giving a 'bomb' to someone then arresting them. Do you think that they just happen upon this stuff? No....they catch them doing something or having a conversation or typing on a message board. As unfortunate as it is....you should not have an expectation of privacy in public. If you're having a conversation about bombing a school.....and an undercover cop happens to be near working an unrelated case, does that mean that he shouldn't have heard you? Again.....if you're living right, you don't have to worry. Aarondb4 - 2012-12-13 11:49 AM The thing is that it doesn't keep them safe. It does nothing but waste money. It provides a false sense of security, just like taking off your shoes at the airport or allowing `random' searches at train stations.
All well and good to slowly trample the constitution. People go along because it will "keep them safe" or they "have nothing to hide". What happens 25-50 years later when all this is in place and the rest of the constitution has been gutted? Welcome to the police state. It's called "probable cause". You can't just investigate someone for no reason... you have to have a reason. That is the problem... they have no reason... they are just throwing out a big net and seeing what they catch. That is not Constitutional. And no I'm not OK just allowing the government to just ignore the Constitution. I understand I can be on a surveillance tape for an number of reasons. At store or cameras... but they are not turning that over to the "State" to get me.. it's just store security, and if the place is robber... or a crime COMMITTED, then they use it to catch the guy. That is fine... probable cause. But to listen and record people for no reason, then it isn't right.... and the problem with all of this is your very attitude... ya it's all good when it does not effect you... but then years down the road someone else starts using it for their own reasons and all of a sudden we have no control and the reason it's so good anymore... and then you are in jail against your Constitutional rights because of some misunderstanding... and then you want a lawyer.... but you can't have that either... There is an expectation the GOVERNMENT is not going to be INVESTIGATING me for no reason. Has nothing to do with me being in "public"... I have no expectation to privacy in public so I don't pull down my pants expecting it. I have full expectation that I am covered under the forth to unreasonable SEARCH and seizure without cause. You're mixing your concepts. The expectation is of privacy, not whether you are being investigated. You are covered against unreasonable search and seizure under the 4A. That's not an issue. The question is what is an unreasonable search and seizure. BTW, the 4A search and seizure law, in practice, is an evidentiary issue. Not whether the gov't can investigate you or not, only whether that evidence was constitutionally obtained and thus can be used against you. Edited by ChrisM 2012-12-13 2:06 PM |
| 2012-12-13 2:06 PM in reply to: #4534133 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? Left Brain - 2012-12-13 2:04 PM mr2tony - 2012-12-13 2:01 PM Left Brain - 2012-12-13 1:57 PM I would hope companies wouldn't be giving it to them. Maybe I'm jaded but isn't that illegal? mr2tony - 2012-12-13 1:56 PM bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 1:52 PM There's no expectation to privacy from a company. There is from the government. tuwood - 2012-12-13 1:49 PM But just a second ago, you were talking about 4A being trashed....and now you're bragging about "collecting data". Pick a side. It's almost scary how much we are tracked on a daily basis and many people don't even realize it. My company sells and installs IT stuff and in order to more efficiently manage our customers computers we have software on them that "collects data" and has remote access. I have a number of engineers that have access to the hard drives of literally thousands of PC's all over the US. These are all business PC's and laptops, but they're taken home and used for personal stuff too. We can remote in, do screenshots, install software, you name it. i just met with a large client yesterday that's we're selling them Mobile Device Management software to track their employees company issued phones and ipads. You'd freak out at the amount of data the employer has access to and I can guarantee you the employees have no idea the software is even on their device because their permission is buried in some company paperwork/policy they signed but never read. That's right....but where do you think the govt. gets the information from? They don't give it, they sell it. They sell it to companies that put together giant databases.....those companies then sell those databases to the govt. (FBI, police depts., etc.) I guess it's a good thing I never post on Facebook, then. |
| 2012-12-13 2:07 PM in reply to: #4534131 |
Pro 4313 McKinney, TX | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? Protection against the "sanctities of a mans home and privacies of life"........ Typical.....quote a nut job justice and screw it all up. Edited by bradleyd3 2012-12-13 2:07 PM |
| 2012-12-13 2:09 PM in reply to: #4534093 |
Veteran 698 | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? mr2tony - 2012-12-13 11:47 AM Left Brain - 2012-12-13 1:46 PM Wait. How'd YOU know I have a plate in my head!? mr2tony - 2012-12-13 1:44 PM Left Brain - 2012-12-13 1:39 PM I'm not affected. I don't own a car. Really, cameras are nothing. There are now license plate readers......they capture your plate as you drive by and send your information to us via terminal. You ready for this scenario: We (the govt.) set up a plate reader at a major intersection. Your name and address from your registration is sent to our mobile terminals. We take your name and address and enter you into one of the monstrous databases now available to us (or we program the reader to do it for us). I an instant, as you drive by, I know where you live, where you work, what your income was reported the last quarter, where you bank, if you have a CCW license, what your spouse and children's names are, where your spouse works, every address you have ever used, every credit card you have ever used, and on and on. This isn't something that is coming down the road.....it's here, I've watched it. Feel safe? It could be programmed to read the plate in your head.
The microphone in your bedroom heard you mention it last week when you were discussing it. Sadly, nothing else of interest was heard... |
| 2012-12-13 2:09 PM in reply to: #4534134 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? ChrisM - 2012-12-13 1:05 PM powerman - 2012-12-13 12:00 PM bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 12:27 PM powerman - 2012-12-13 1:19 PM But it's PUBLIC.....there is no expectation of privacy in PUBLIC. Tomorrow at 9am, I'm going to be making tin-foil hats. They will come in different shapes and sizes. Let me know if you want any designs (Mickey ears, swan, Longhorns, etc) and I'll do my best. bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 12:08 PM mr2tony - 2012-12-13 11:51 AM Sure it keeps us safe. How many times do you hear of a "thwarted terrorist plot" or an undercover agent giving a 'bomb' to someone then arresting them. Do you think that they just happen upon this stuff? No....they catch them doing something or having a conversation or typing on a message board. As unfortunate as it is....you should not have an expectation of privacy in public. If you're having a conversation about bombing a school.....and an undercover cop happens to be near working an unrelated case, does that mean that he shouldn't have heard you? Again.....if you're living right, you don't have to worry. Aarondb4 - 2012-12-13 11:49 AM The thing is that it doesn't keep them safe. It does nothing but waste money. It provides a false sense of security, just like taking off your shoes at the airport or allowing `random' searches at train stations.
All well and good to slowly trample the constitution. People go along because it will "keep them safe" or they "have nothing to hide". What happens 25-50 years later when all this is in place and the rest of the constitution has been gutted? Welcome to the police state. It's called "probable cause". You can't just investigate someone for no reason... you have to have a reason. That is the problem... they have no reason... they are just throwing out a big net and seeing what they catch. That is not Constitutional. And no I'm not OK just allowing the government to just ignore the Constitution. I understand I can be on a surveillance tape for an number of reasons. At store or cameras... but they are not turning that over to the "State" to get me.. it's just store security, and if the place is robber... or a crime COMMITTED, then they use it to catch the guy. That is fine... probable cause. But to listen and record people for no reason, then it isn't right.... and the problem with all of this is your very attitude... ya it's all good when it does not effect you... but then years down the road someone else starts using it for their own reasons and all of a sudden we have no control and the reason it's so good anymore... and then you are in jail against your Constitutional rights because of some misunderstanding... and then you want a lawyer.... but you can't have that either... There is an expectation the GOVERNMENT is not going to be INVESTIGATING me for no reason. Has nothing to do with me being in "public"... I have no expectation to privacy in public so I don't pull down my pants expecting it. I have full expectation that I am covered under the forth to unreasonable SEARCH and seizure without cause. You're mixing your concepts. The expectation is of privacy, not whether you are being investigated. You are covered against unreasonable search and seizure under the 4A. That's not an issue. The question is what is an unreasonable search and seizure. BTW, the 4A search and seizure law, in practice, is an evidentiary issue. Not whether the gov't can investigate you or not, only whether that evidence was constitutionally obtained and thus can be used against you. Yes, you can be investigated... for a REASON... not just for giggles, not just for the heck of seeing what we find. And if you surveil me, and use that evidence against me, it had to be obtained through proper authority and probable cause.... you can't go on a fishing expedition and then see what you find and and then bring charges against me or use it for a more comprehensive investigation... which is exactly what this public surveillance is. |
| 2012-12-13 2:10 PM in reply to: #4534078 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? Left Brain - 2012-12-13 2:39 PM Really, cameras are nothing. There are now license plate readers......they capture your plate as you drive by and send your information to us via terminal. You ready for this scenario: We (the govt.) set up a plate reader at a major intersection. Your name and address from your registration is sent to our mobile terminals. We take your name and address and enter you into one of the monstrous databases now available to us (or we program the reader to do it for us). I an instant, as you drive by, I know where you live, where you work, what your income was reported the last quarter, where you bank, if you have a CCW license, what your spouse and children's names are, where your spouse works, every address you have ever used, every credit card you have ever used, and on and on. This isn't something that is coming down the road.....it's here, I've watched it. Feel safe? Very. Thanks for keeping an eye out for the bad guys. |
| 2012-12-13 2:15 PM in reply to: #4534126 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Where is the outrage again? mr2tony - 2012-12-13 2:01 PM Left Brain - 2012-12-13 1:57 PM I would hope companies wouldn't be giving it to them. Maybe I'm jaded but isn't that illegal? mr2tony - 2012-12-13 1:56 PM bradleyd3 - 2012-12-13 1:52 PM There's no expectation to privacy from a company. There is from the government. tuwood - 2012-12-13 1:49 PM But just a second ago, you were talking about 4A being trashed....and now you're bragging about "collecting data". Pick a side. It's almost scary how much we are tracked on a daily basis and many people don't even realize it. My company sells and installs IT stuff and in order to more efficiently manage our customers computers we have software on them that "collects data" and has remote access. I have a number of engineers that have access to the hard drives of literally thousands of PC's all over the US. These are all business PC's and laptops, but they're taken home and used for personal stuff too. We can remote in, do screenshots, install software, you name it. i just met with a large client yesterday that's we're selling them Mobile Device Management software to track their employees company issued phones and ipads. You'd freak out at the amount of data the employer has access to and I can guarantee you the employees have no idea the software is even on their device because their permission is buried in some company paperwork/policy they signed but never read. That's right....but where do you think the govt. gets the information from? It gets touchy in some situations. For example if one of my engineers is doing a virus scan on a PC and notices a "personal pictures" folder that contains some potentially illegal images we almost have to report that. Our policy is to report it to the business owner as their acting IT staff and let them take it from there if they want to call the Po Po or not. I think the big difference is the user doesn't have an expectation of privacy on a company owned laptop. You also hear a lot of stories about some dude dropping his laptop off at best buy to get fixed and they find some bad pictures and call the cops. The police get a warrant based on the statement of the employee on what he saw. So there is technically no 4th amendment violation due to the person who had permission to work on it discovering the images. |
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