Jford2309/Kido Mentoring Group-Closed (Page 3)

Ahh - run volume. I recently read through BarryP's running articles on ST and decided to give it a go - right now I'm running 2 miles three times a week, 4 miles twice a week and 6 miles once (to give me 6 days of running) - with an eventual eye to getting my mileage up to 40-45 miles a week. I am very conflicted about the frequency - because of the lack of recovery - but thought it might be something to consider. Any thoughts?

Also - in the spirit of the new year, I came up with my very generic goals for tri in the new year (bike 3500 miles - up from 3000 last year, run 1200 miles - up from 900 last year, complete a HIM and a HM, oh and lose a few pounds). I'd love to hear others.

Great list, thank you for sharing.  I really do have to spend some more time on here personalizing my account.  Maybe over Chinese New Year.

Hope everyone had a good New Years.  I'm personally feeling much better, but my cough seems to have come back today.  I feel alright (a little tired, and really stuffed at the moment, all you can eat pizza place not a good plan!!) but been hacking up a storm all evening.  Hopefully I'll be up for something tomorrow.  I'd hate to start the New Year on my for another week!

 I think the Barry P plan is one of the best running plans I've seen.  and thats' basically what I"m doing as well. Through my years of running and doing tri's it seems that most people get injured running by increasing volume to fast, running to high of an intensity, and not running enough. It takes a lot longer for your body (muscles/tendon/ligament} to build up in relation to cardio.  To get better at running you need to train like a runner.  It clicked for me one year when I noticed that people who struggle with running injuries got a lot better as a runner by training for walking marathon's.    

Let's discuss cadence:

I have been asked about cadence on the bike and run. I have always been told that the run cadence should be 90 and the bike should be the same to make the transition easier. I have been working on a 90 cadence on my run for a while now and I am at about 88, so I am getting there. This has caused me to take a shorter stride and quicker turnover. I can honestly say that my legs feel better after a run with a shorter stride.

Any others have any opinions on cadence?

 To me it {cadence} really doesn't matter,, what does matter is bike fitness.   for a couple of years I worked hard to keep a 90 cadence on the bike and it just never felt right while riding and my runs did not improve.   Once I decided to just bike at what was comfortable for me {which was around 70-75} my bike and run times improved.   I dont' think you can assign a random number and expect it to be right for everyone.  Just like those 220 -age HR tables.

Never paid much attention to cadence.  I've noticed while on the bike I am usually around 85~ 100, but don't make a super effort to stay exactly at 90 or anything.  I did measure my cadence while running a couple times last year and found myself in the low 80's or high 70's so maybe I should work on that.

Now, completely off topic, you can facebook 'like' treads here now... interesting.

Cadence for me - biking I'm "comfortable" between 75-80, but am trying to move my legs a little faster in the hopes that it may through some fluke of nature make me faster. Running - I'm between 80-85. I have a fair mid to forefoot strike, so a quicker cadence on the run is very comfortable for me...

Let me state that I have never focused on cadence before either, but I know that after all the miles from last year, I did not get a whole lot faster. Is my cadence part of the reason I did not gain speed? I am not sure,  but I know that keeping the cadence on my mind as I run tends to help me mentally, so it might help. I do not know yet.

As far as the bike, again, I have never made it a priority to think about my bike cadence, but I believe there might be something to it. If I can keep my bike cadence around the same as my run cadence, then I think the transition from bike to run might be easier (or it has been explained that way to me) So this is something that I am going to focus on in my training and just see if it does help!

**I see that you can like a thread FB style, not sure what happens yet if you click it. Anybody know?

Cadence is individual.  HOWEVER, it is generally accepted that a higher cadence puts more emphasis on your cardio system and less on muscular.  It also changes of course as the terrain changes.

I generally like to keep it around 90, but will drop it down to under 80, and if I'm on the flats pushing a big gear, may get it up to over 100.

A fast cadence on your run probably means you are not over striding (heel striker) which is also a positive thing.

If you are starting out, it's something to keep in the back of your mind, but not critical.  If you are trying to refine your form, look at it closer.  If you are just beginning, it's FAR more important to get out there and just train, recover, and eat well, than worry about cadence.

IMO, training is like a piramyd.  You focus on the BIG stuff first.  Consistancy, recovery, nutrition, bike fit.  That's your base.  Then you can worry about more of the details and refinements (cadence, flip turns, types of shoes).

I can talk about all of it, but it's better to keep it simple and not clutter your mind with lots of information which may or may not be important at the momoment.

One of the base principles you should look at other than a plan, is your training method.  Heart Rate, power, Rate of percieved effort (RPE).  All have pros/cons, but basically do the same thing.  Pick one and stick with it.

Again, I could talk about all three.  I'm generally a HR man, but would love to train on the bike by power, but that's an investment.

I tried to watch my bike cadence alot as it has help me from not blowing up as well keeping me at a steady pace.  When I first started biking I was in the 70-80 RPM, now i'm in the 85-95.  Currently I'm taking a bike training class at my rec center.  We do alot of training using our cadence.  We have a workout where we push our cadence up to 140rpm (just for 15 seconds)!

As for running, I have never done this.  Is this where you count the number of steps you take in a minute?

For running cadence, I count the number of steps per minute. To be perfectly honest about it - I find a song that I know the number of beats per minute and run to the song (years of marching band ingrained foot strike tempo into my brain). There is a great website called JogTunes that breaks down songs by BPM that I use - I actually have several playlists (one for 160-170 BPM, 170-180 BPM, and one with 180-190 PBM) that I choose based on my mood/energy level or workout goal.

Jim (Kido) mentioned something about bike fit being fundamental and I wanted to re-iterate that. I got a new (to me) bike last summer. I guessed on the seat height, handlebar/aerobar positioning, etc and thought it was okay. I would move around a lot during extended trainer rides (and living in the frozen north, there are MANY trainer rides to be had), but just thought it was part of the pain of being on a bike.

A month ago, as a Christmas present to myself, I finally got a professional bike fit (I live in the sticks, so I waited until I was down in Boston for business and tacked on an extra day to my trip to fit it in). I showed up at Todd Kenyon's shop and he put me on a trainer that was attached to a Computrainer (more on that another time - it was REALLY cool) with cameras on both sides as well as the front and back. Lots of riding, video taking, measuring angles of hip, ankle, shoulder, etc and tweaking of the bike ended up dropping my seat almost 2 cm ("your seat is too high") and adjusting the angle pretty significantly on the aerobars along with a couple of other adjustments (I now have a shim on my left bike shoe).

I went home and did a long ride (40 miles - long for me) the next day. I felt great. I didn't move around at all, I felt comfortable the entire time but even more importantly, I felt like I could keep going even after the 40 miles had elapsed. I could have easily run a 10K at the end.

Bike fit makes a HUGE difference - I would strongly recommend you either spending the $$ if you can or taking several videos of yourself on the trainer and posting here - there has been some fantastic advice in bike fitting threads. It's one of those things that you hear about but don't really believe until you try it for yourself.

I'd love to get a real bike fit, but its not in the cards right now.  I asked at a few bike shops here if they did professional bike fits.  Answer was usually yes... so I asked how long one takes... they all said about 10 minutes.  Haha... oh well.  When I bought my bike, the guy measured my inseam, had me pedal on the bike for 5 minutes, and that was it... I'll be stuck with that for at least a while longer.

Duncan - This is what it is like for me as well - I live in a tiny town. There happens to be a bike store one town over - where when you go to buy a bike, they ask you how tall you are and that's the extent of the fit. Hence making an appointment when I was in the "big city"...but seriously - if you can get video of you while on a trainer and post it to Tri Talk - you can get a lot of advice for free.

James - about eating while traveling - it is almost impossible. After working in restaurants for several years, I know that you (as a customer) have NO control over what is actually put in front of you. I am lucky enough to only have to travel about one week a month - but during that week, I actually try to find a grocery store close by to see if I can get some things that are healthy. Something that I think of while traveling is "it's only one week" and I can clean up my diet when I get home...which I try to do. The other difficulty (for me) while traveling is ensuring a consistent workout. Some of the hotels have great workout rooms, but most do not. But (going back to a previous discussion), I feel like consistency is key for me - so I will ride on the LifeCycle if there is nothing else I can do for my bike workouts, etc.

I've got to go get a run in this morning and then I'm trying Master's swim tonight for the first time. We'll see how that goes. Have a great day all!

Newbie questions here:

1. Does bodyglide last through a chlorinated pool swim? (I Haven't purchased any yet)

2. I don't have a bike at the moment so I am using the stationary (upright) ones at the gym. How different is stationary training time to actual ride time?

Thanks!

I guess it should.  I have used it to practice with my wetsuit and had no issues.

As for the bike?  Well, typically the legs don't know if you are outside or inside.  The only problem is making sure the gym bike is set up appropriately.  I lean towards the spin bikes rather than the life cycles.  Far more adjustable.  Do you have some idea how to position yourself on the bike?

I have some basic principles when I go to the gym.  I sit on the saddle and put my HEELS on the pedals.  They should JUST touch when the pedal is is at the 6 oclock position with your legs locked out and without rocking your hips to reach.

I adjust the saddle forward or back so when your feet are in the pedals in the normal riding position and the pedals are in the 3/9 oclock position, you can draw verticle line from your knee cap to the axle of the front pedal (or 1-2 cm in front of it).

I adjust the hight/reach of the handle bars to feel.  Not too stretched out or crunched.  I figure it's good for 1-2 hours tops.  Longer than that, I would probably try to get it a bit more exact to match my road bike.  Fortunately, I can ride outside year round, so I get my long rides in on my normal bike.

In my experience, a very close approximation is to use the fit calculator at competativecyclist.com.  If you measure your body accurately, I found that the suggested bike setup is VERY close to the one provided by my LBS.  You will need a tape measure, level, and a weighted string (plum) if you want the most accurate setup.  I found their suggested saddle height was about 1/4" too high, but YMMV.

For anyone's use:

I have taken three training plans from the previously mentioned book and loaded them into BT.  It took some time, but what else do I have to do? 

The first one is the Olympic distance plan I currently started.  Week 1, in fact.  It's 16 weeks long and has a lot of decent workouts.  Not for the brand new beginner off the couch, but it's reasonable.

It's made to be imported nicely into your BT logs, but that's only available if you are a performace member (even a bronze level).  OR, it's a bit confusing, but you can easily see it all in Excel.  So take a look at it in there.

I have a half Iron, and Ironman plan I will share.

Please check back in.  I seem to have forgotten how to export it.  Let me talk to the mods and have them point me in the right direction and I will put them up post haste.

Oly Plan.  If you open in excel, you may need to adjust the formating and hide a lot of colums to get it to look right.  You should also be able to just import it into your logs.