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2012-07-27 7:46 PM
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2012-07-27 7:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
Fred D - 2012-07-27 2:39 PM
tri808 - 2012-07-27 8:31 PM
Fred D - 2012-07-27 11:31 AM

Question for the group??

Do you train with power, RPE or HR for the bike?

Why do you chose what you chose and what are the plusses of training with one method over another.

I'd like to add on to Fred's question if you don't mind.

- For those that use power, what type of power meter do you use, and if you had your choice (money was no object) which would you prefer (including the yet to be released Garmin Vectors)

- What are your experiences with racing with power, RPE, and HR.  Has one ever let you down?  Is there one you trust above all else?

. Love my quarq and would go crank based always. Actually I have the quarq with the Garmin 800 and wouldn't change a thing about my choice.

Haven't tried the 800, but the 500 is definately my favorite piece of tri equipment.  It's one of those things that if it broke, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to buy a new one.  Wouldn't consider any other computer...except for maybe an upgrade to the 800.

2012-07-27 7:52 PM
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2012-07-27 7:56 PM
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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II

I now train by RPE exclusively. 2008 was my first serious, full season of tri and I was able to get free lab testing to set up LTHR and zones through SPIN Fitness then. I found that training by HR for me, back then, was most effective for putting a ceiling on effort in both training and racing (still learning very much about pacing and did my first HIM then).

There are Garmins and Timex with HRM available here but they're egregiously expensive (even more so than U.S. due to import luxury tax). Nothing to measure power.

As terrible as I am at self-regulating, RPE's been a boon for having to really, really (how cliche but true) listen to my body and only do what I can and should. Also, both the illnesses and some of the medications actually affect HR so I'm not sure it would have been a particularly useful metric in those circumstances ... oh ... and it's HOT and HUMID here, and while it does range from kinda hot/humid to really hot/humid, it's enough to affect HR for sure.

Asalzwed (Adrienne, Salty) my co-mentor is an interesting case as she trains completely by RPE; not even a watch for training or racing. She's trained very smart, though, and BQ'ed in what's been her first full season of running. I'm working on an article about her training and aspirations.

2012-07-27 8:01 PM
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2012-07-27 8:02 PM
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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II

Fred D - 2012-07-28 8:52 AM Ok a little olympic talk I am unabashedly rooting for our US athletes. Very excited to see Phelps and Lochte face off in what I consider to be the greatest 2 Olympic swimmers of my generation. Want to see Missy Franklin do well. Battle of the titans with Phelps and Lochte though! Also interested on the track and field. Lastly can't wait for the triathlon as I love to watch the Brownlee's and have to assume that they will be heavily featured as they are host country athletes.

I am here to tell you that Indonesia will be snatching gold back in the badminton events this year.

Between all the events and countries I'm watching, I don't expect to sleep or socialize on a regular schedule the next 16 days. My bike training will be parked in front of the TV. I'll be especially watching as much of swimming, prelims and all, as I can.



2012-07-27 8:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II

Fred D - 2012-07-27 2:52 PM Ok a little olympic talk I am unabashedly rooting for our US athletes. Very excited to see Phelps and Lochte face off in what I consider to be the greatest 2 Olympic swimmers of my generation. Want to see Missy Franklin do well. Battle of the titans with Phelps and Lochte though! Also interested on the track and field. Lastly can't wait for the triathlon as I love to watch the Brownlee's and have to assume that they will be heavily featured as they are host country athletes.

Phelps and Lochte will probably be the main focus of the Olympics.  I really think that Lochte doesn't get enough respect for how good he actually is.  He's cocky...but I like that.

Of course looking forward to the triathlon, time trial, and road race.  Also love the track and field sprints, and looking for a show with Bolt.  Decathlon should be interesting...sad that Hawaii's own Brian Clay will not be defending his gold, but the guy that qualified first set a new world record, so I'm hoping he'll do great things in London.

I'll follow gymnastics closely if there is an American in contention.  There's something about that sport that just makes it great for TV.  Keri Strug, Paul Hamm, Nastia Liukin, etc.  I know very little about the sport, but it gives me goosebumps when an American wins gold.

2012-07-27 8:07 PM
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2012-07-27 8:14 PM
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2012-07-27 8:17 PM
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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
tri808 - 2012-07-28 9:07 AM

Fred D - 2012-07-27 2:52 PM Ok a little olympic talk I am unabashedly rooting for our US athletes. Very excited to see Phelps and Lochte face off in what I consider to be the greatest 2 Olympic swimmers of my generation. Want to see Missy Franklin do well. Battle of the titans with Phelps and Lochte though! Also interested on the track and field. Lastly can't wait for the triathlon as I love to watch the Brownlee's and have to assume that they will be heavily featured as they are host country athletes.

Phelps and Lochte will probably be the main focus of the Olympics.  I really think that Lochte doesn't get enough respect for how good he actually is.  He's cocky...but I like that.

Another guy who definitely doesn't get enough respect for how good he is (although he does in Europe), and along with Lochte may very well have been the hallmark swimmer of his time were his ascendancy during any time BUT Phelps ...

Laszlo Cseh (Hungary). He's not been in top form lately but he has a way of rising to the occasion, and he may very well peak for the Olympics. He was the guy who got three silvers to Phelps in 2008.

2012-07-27 8:18 PM
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2012-07-27 8:25 PM
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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
Fred D - 2012-07-28 9:18 AM
TriAya - 2012-07-27 9:17 PM
tri808 - 2012-07-28 9:07 AM

Fred D - 2012-07-27 2:52 PM Ok a little olympic talk I am unabashedly rooting for our US athletes. Very excited to see Phelps and Lochte face off in what I consider to be the greatest 2 Olympic swimmers of my generation. Want to see Missy Franklin do well. Battle of the titans with Phelps and Lochte though! Also interested on the track and field. Lastly can't wait for the triathlon as I love to watch the Brownlee's and have to assume that they will be heavily featured as they are host country athletes.

Phelps and Lochte will probably be the main focus of the Olympics.  I really think that Lochte doesn't get enough respect for how good he actually is.  He's cocky...but I like that.

Another guy who definitely doesn't get enough respect for how good he is (although he does in Europe), and along with Lochte may very well have been the hallmark swimmer of his time were his ascendancy during any time BUT Phelps ...

Laszlo Cseh (Hungary). He's not been in top form lately but he has a way of rising to the occasion, and he may very well peak for the Olympics. He was the guy who got three silvers to Phelps in 2008.

. I love, love, LOVE the best facing off against the BEST, so I hope he is in peak form as to *me* that is te ideal in high level sport.

Indeed. And not to put too crude a point on it, but it's the very-close second-place finishers who push the winners to do as well as they do.

2012-07-27 8:37 PM
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Edited by TSimone 2012-07-27 8:43 PM
2012-07-27 8:44 PM
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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
TSimone - 2012-07-28 9:37 AM
TriAya - 2012-07-27 9:17 PM
tri808 - 2012-07-28 9:07 AM

Fred D - 2012-07-27 2:52 PM Ok a little olympic talk I am unabashedly rooting for our US athletes. Very excited to see Phelps and Lochte face off in what I consider to be the greatest 2 Olympic swimmers of my generation. Want to see Missy Franklin do well. Battle of the titans with Phelps and Lochte though! Also interested on the track and field. Lastly can't wait for the triathlon as I love to watch the Brownlee's and have to assume that they will be heavily featured as they are host country athletes.

Phelps and Lochte will probably be the main focus of the Olympics.  I really think that Lochte doesn't get enough respect for how good he actually is.  He's cocky...but I like that.

Another guy who definitely doesn't get enough respect for how good he is (although he does in Europe), and along with Lochte may very well have been the hallmark swimmer of his time were his ascendancy during any time BUT Phelps ...

Laszlo Cseh (Hungary). He's not been in top form lately but he has a way of rising to the occasion, and he may very well peak for the Olympics. He was the guy who got three silvers to Phelps in 2008.

Didn't he talk some smack in Beijing before Phelps nudged by him? Or am I thinking of someone else?

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of Milorad Cavic, whom Phelps (controversially) just out-touched in the 100m fly. Cseh tends to be humble and low-key and is universally well spoken of.

2012-07-28 12:06 AM
in reply to: #4334939

Master
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, California
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
tri808 - 2012-07-27 5:31 PM
Fred D - 2012-07-27 11:31 AM

Question for the group??

Do you train with power, RPE or HR for the bike?

Why do you chose what you chose and what are the plusses of training with one method over another.

I'd like to add on to Fred's question if you don't mind.

- For those that use power, what type of power meter do you use, and if you had your choice (money was no object) which would you prefer (including the yet to be released Garmin Vectors)

- What are your experiences with racing with power, RPE, and HR.  Has one ever let you down?  Is there one you trust above all else?

Powertap here, which works well for me due to multiple bikes.  I have a pro on a wheelset with Kinlin rims and a Zipp 900 PT that I picked up on eBay when no one bid against me.  All clinchers.

As for the last question: any technology can fail.  My last race, my HR strap didn't stay sealed and saltwater killed the battery.  So it was power on the bike, RPE on the run.  I prefer power, but be ready for anything.

It's a fun experiment to go plan a ride with certain power targets.  Then go out with the power meter turned on but covered up.  See how close you get to hitting those numbers when you're just using RPE.  I think the toughest part of RPE is getting familiar with how your body feels at the start of a ride versus, say, 4 hours later.



Edited by spudone 2012-07-28 12:10 AM
2012-07-28 2:25 AM
in reply to: #4335142

Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II

spudone - 2012-07-27 7:06 PM I think the toughest part of RPE is getting familiar with how your body feels at the start of a ride versus, say, 4 hours later.

Agree.  Especially in a TT where you are stomping out of the gate and need to settle in.  In the first 2 minutes, I find myself riding at what feels comfortable...but is about 30 watts over my goal.  I really have to reel myself in.



2012-07-28 2:25 AM
in reply to: #4333512

Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
Got myself a KOM.  Not too many people have ridden it, but I had to push 398 watts for 3:26 to get it.
2012-07-28 2:43 AM
in reply to: #4334956

Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
tri808 - 2012-07-27 9:46 PM

Ok...to answer my own questions.

I currently use a powertap, built into a training wheel that I race with using a disc cover.  In races that do not allow a disc (Hawaii 70.3 and road races) I don't use power.  If I had my choice, I'd go with a pedal based system.  I would not be a first adopter, but it makes the most sense to me as I run different BBs on my bikes...and I would not be surprised if I experiment with different cranks in the future.  So I don't want to be locked into a crank based PM.

For racing...power has been good to me to keep my effort constant...but very rarely have I actually hit my power goals.  Sometimes I've been sick, sometimes I was just off, and once I felt much better than expected.  HR has been a good indicator when I'm off...but I've also had solid races where my HR was sky high.  Overall, when racing, RPE seems to work best for me.  I still like to use a combination of the 3 though.

I have a powertap that I cover for races as well.  I think pedal based would be the ideal scenario for me too.  Dcrainmaker just posted a review of the Polar pedals that seemed to show they work well but their lock into Polar computers makes it a no go for me.  I wouldn't want to have to buy the PM *and* a computer.  That and the $2300 turn me off it.  If Vector ever makes it to the market and proves to work well, I would think about switching.  If I ever had to replace my powertap for some reason, I would also think about going to a crank based one but at the moment, I have no reason to switch.

2012-07-28 2:48 AM
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Elite
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II

It's 4:45am and I'll be on the road in an hour for my last long ride before IMMT.  6.5 hours of a couple of loops that end up back at my place every 1.5 hour or so for refills.  I'll be doing most of it with a few others (most of whom are must stronger than me) so that will help the time pass somewhat.  

I'll be glad when this weekend is over!

2012-07-28 3:24 AM
in reply to: #4335169

Extreme Veteran
532
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Northampton, UK
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II

I'm still here!

Name: Stavros, 35 (36 in under 2 weeks!)

Story: My background is a little different to most. I entered a 3k fun run in July 2009 to see if I could complete it and was thoroughly unimpressed with my result (19min which I walked at least half of, and it turned out to only be 1.5miles). This motivated me to find a training plan for a 5k run later in the year and found this site. One thing lead to another and Adam (Blinddave) and I ended up entering 3 sprints that year.

Family Status: Moved in with my Girlfriend of 5yrs at the beginning of the year and we haven't killed each other yet!

Current Training: Running 6x/week (~30mpw), swimming 3x/week (~6-7k) and cycling 3x/week(Jorge's Winter cycling plan)

2011 Races: As well as a few other sprint races, I started the year with the same race as in 2010 (which was my first ever race) and improved my time by 6.5 mins. I also had my first Oly and missed out on the 3hr mark by a mere 1min!

2012 Races: Sprint race in April (new best time of 1:12), Oly in May (new best of 2:53), first HIM in September and another sprint to finish off the season in September

Weightloss: I've never really be concerned with my weight as it has almost always been around the 140lb mark, though a case of gastroenteritis back in Jan saw my weight drop to 135 and it sort of hovers between 135-138 at the moment.

Goals: Apart from 'finish the HIM without needing medical assistance afterwards', I tend to set short term goals and progress as I achieve them.

Due to my work hours (and the time difference between UK and US) I don't get the chance to post much and when I do I spend most of the time catching up on the pages you guys have posted in the mean time.

We are going to be starting flexi time at work next week so I should be getting home a little earlier and , hopefully, will be able to participate more.

2012-07-28 3:27 AM
in reply to: #4334713

Extreme Veteran
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Northampton, UK
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group - Part II
Fred D - 2012-07-27 10:31 PM

Question for the group??

Do you train with power, RPE or HR for the bike?

Why do you chose what you chose and what are the plusses of training with one method over another.

I train by HR when outside as I don't have a PM. However, I've been using an approximate power estimate when using my rollers and I feel it has improved my speed much more than HR training did.

Since we're talking about the Olympics, my girlfriend was wondering what other nations made of the opening ceremony and I figured this would be a good place to get some honest feedback.



2012-07-28 5:17 AM
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2012-07-28 5:18 AM
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