Educate me, Re: Transgender child in CO (Page 3)

I'mma say that next time I determine the men's room is too dirty and I decide to use the women's room instead. Uncomfortable parties can deal with it. 

You can, but I've seen people locked up for "peace disturbance" for doing exactly that....and it held up. (ETA - women complained to bar owner, bar owner held man until police arrived....women wanted to prosecute...end of story.)

Then again, in keeping with the theme from other threads, locking people up is good....so everyone is a winner in that deal.

Right, because of course, you identify as a woman. I'll make certain to use appropriate pronouns for you going forward.

Question: Do these types of things happen in, say European countries? Or is it a result of A) Americans' litigious natures or B) Americans' uptight body consciousness or C) some of both?

And by "these types of things," I don't mean individuals who are working through (or have resolved) gender identity, but rather the people who are getting all worked up about which bathroom someone goes in to take a dump/wash their hands/check their outfit/brush their teeth/whatever?

Sure, there are some creepy perverts out there who might get off on "sneaking" into the wrong bathroom, but really...is that what the issue is? That we shouldn't let the "wrong" gender in a bathroom b/c they may have illicit intentions (or they might not...but someone else MIGHT, and this would give them an "in")? Do people think that people in the opposite bathroom are trying to like peek at their poopers?

I'm pretty sure most people want to go to the bathroom and be done with it. Look, everyone poops (EVEN GIRLS Shocking, I know.). And 99.999999999% of the world's population, regardless of gender or sexuality or whatever is NOT trying to be a creeper in the W.C. And the ones that ARE? They're gonna do it anyway.

So WHY are people upset about this, is what I want to understand. Because it's "inappropriate"? Why is it? Frankly, I prefer to go to the bathroom alone. I mean, evolutionally speaking, I think we all do. But that's not always possible, and sometimes we have to share a bathroom. The hardware (or lack thereof) of the person in the stall next door is really not affecting anything. You'd still be standing next to them in the hallway. Or lying next to them on the beach (and, hey, if you're somewhere like the south of france, you may see their plumbing then anyway). Or whatever. So, if we have to have gender separated bathrooms...and you identify more as a chick, go in there. As a dude? Go in there. Do your business. As long as you give a courtesy flush and wash your hands, I am not affected.

I see your point.  Yes, obviously a difference. 

But there are still the feelings of others to be considered.  Let me ask you, why can't she use the boys restroom?  She's physically equipped to use a urinal.

This is the argument they've been using to remove the pledge in schools...the people uncomfortable with the situation (i.e. the people that don't want to hear people saying "under God") get to win...the people that want to say "under God" get their rights repressed.

People *always* side with the one person that might be uncomfortable...even if it isn't right.

No perhaps I am a germophobe and recent studies have shown women's restrooms are statistically cleaner. Hypothetically speaking of course. But the point is there are rules for a reason and one rule is girl parts in the girls room boy parts in the boys room. 

But not necessarily "clothing equipped" with a fly that can be opened with some modesty.

What's next, banning gay men from using the men's room because they might see your equipment and think elicit thoughts?

I agree that people in America are WAY too uptight about what happens in the bathroom.  Just take a walk around any locker room...everyone trying to do the towel dance or changing in the stalls!  Eek!  Someone might SEE them!!!  The horror! :D

I don't think that's the issue here.  These are kids.  Kids run around naked half the time and don't care at the age of 6.  I mean, are there rules that female teachers cannot go into the boys bathroom if they hear a scuffle or a problem?  Or the other way around? 

If you switched school districts at this point and presented your child as a girl...would the school ever even know the difference unless they saw him/her naked?

Well, you've OBVIOUSLY never been in a crowded men's room. LMAO 

You jest, but some military people I know actually tried to use this as a reason they didn't want gays in the military.  I'm not joking.  It was mostly homophobic dudes, but they tried to say that rooming with a homosexual guy (so two guys sharing a room) would be like me rooming with a straight dude....that logic seriously made me want to bang my head against a wall.  IMHO it isn't the same thing AT ALL...dudes have dude parts and chicks have chick parts...in my brain I wouldn't have an issue rooming with a lesbian.  I wouldn't think she was checking me out.  But I would have an issue changing clothes in front of a guy.  That would feel weird.  Honestly that's probably cultural imprint...but it is what it is....

This then brings up the question.  What is going to happen when this child gets to a school gym class and lockerrooms? 

This reminds me of a little boy I had in preschool one year. Most preschool classrooms have a dress up area. In my room the clothes were for everyone - you could pretend to be whatever you wanted. Girls could be construction workers and there were always some boys who would put on heels or a dress and pretend to be Mommy or sister. But one time we had a little boy who spent all of his free play time every day dressing up in dresses and heels. Even after playtime was over he would leave the heels on when he was in the room. If you asked him are you a boy or a girl he would say girl. Everyone would laugh because you know, he was 3 and just adorable and sweet but he was at our preschool for 2 years and this trend did not change. He was Barbie for Halloween for 2 years. It really seemed like he identified his gender as female at a very early age.  I lost track of him after preschool since we moved but I have always wondered about him.

And, in a nutshell, this is why transgender people struggle so much.  It makes me incredibly sad, although I don't have any answers.  From the GLAAD page:

Did you know?

• At least one transgender person is murdered every month; several more are assaulted.
• 55% of transgender youth report being physically attacked.
• Nearly half of young transgender people have seriously thought about taking their lives, and one quarter report having made a suicide attempt
• More than half of transgender and gender non-conforming people who were bullied, harassed or assaulted in school because of their gender identity have attempted suicide.

I don't think that's the issue here.

I can't remember where I read it, so take this with a grain of salt.  From what I understand sexuality is developed at a very young age.  Even for straight people, the development of likes/dislikes, etc form very early.

I like blond hair, blue eyes, and I'm a bewb guy.  I've always been that way, and I remember being in early grade school thinking the same way.  Was I "born" this way or did it develop very young?  Dunno, but I've always been this way.

The whole debate gets so weird for me because I hate when people say someone "chooses" to be gay or transgender or whatever.  I do fall more on the side of the nurture versus nature argument, but I honestly think it's a combination of both and it happens very early.  So, people who are gay do not in any way "choose" to be gay, any more than I choose to like blondes or bewbs.

When it comes to the childs physical anatomy, they do not blend in.  As a father of a 6 yo daughter, I think it is inappropriate for a person with male anatomy to be in the restroom with my daughter.  And when the children are 12yo (6th grade), I think it is even more inappropriate.

FACT:  The school offered reasonable solutions (IMO).

My opinion.  

FYI, I also agree with the idea that most health clubs set an age of 4-6 when children of the opposite sex are no longer allowed in locker rooms.

Maybe try to remember what it was like for you in elementary school.  For me, 2nd grade first kiss, by 6th grade, going to movies and soda fountain with girls (Kissing and touching possible).  So yes, as a protective father, I don't need my daughter put in a situation where one of her girl friends is showing off her male stuff.

See and here is the rub.  Everyone wants this person to just fit in.  So the idea is that if everything works out (and I hope it does), she shouldn't feel like she doesn't fit in.  At which point why wouldn't the kids feel comfortable around each other?

And while many here may think I am being silly or uptight, why should my feelings and concerns matter any less than everyone elses. 

The truth is, you can't say it won't happen, only that you hardly believe it would.  Why make it possible.  

That's absolutely laughable. The last thing a transgender child is going to do is "show off" the part of her body that she hates the most.

Also, you lose 4 points of cred for writing "FACT:" and then following it with "IMO" and then "My opinion."

When I was that age, I wasn't showing my genitals to my friends. 

When I was in middle school, and even high school, the girls in my locker room were not 'showing off' our genitals. In fact, most went out of their way to hide themselves while changing. I don't know the environment of a male locker room in middle and high school, but I'm quite certain they are different.

Why make it possible? I'm sorry if you think this is the way to 'protect' your daughter from seeing the genitals of her friends. 

(I'll also disagree that I was not going to the movies and having touching going on at age 12 either, but that's a different discussion) 

The opinions are yours to have, yes, and I respect you putting them out there. Mostly I'm pointing out these things because your opinions, "silly or uptight" can be hurtful. I understand people are raised with different values, and you want what you think is best for your child, however, I think tolerance, love and acceptance is pretty dang important. And this doesn't seem to be the way to foster that.

I lived in Colorado Springs, down the road from the Broadmoor Hotel.  This was before the Broadmoor was annexed by the City.  We had one police officer, and the kids spent time at the hotel, going to the movie theater, skating at the ice rink, and hanging out at the soda fountain at the Drug Store.  Not really your normal "Big City" environment.  It was quite pleasant to know we were safe.

Thanks, that's what I was thinking. I would think that it would apply to most situation where a child is different than their peers. They're not going to go and bring attention to whatever that difference is (disability, gender, sexuality, etc). They want to fit in. 

Yes, thanks.  I also do value your thoughts on this subject.  

Oh, and I'm not here to win points.

I know you're not... I meant to put a winky smile at the end but forgot.

The whole bathroom thing is so overblown. The only people who cause problems when trans people use the appropriate restroom are non-trans people. Here's one example.