zia_cyclist's Group - FULL (Page 3)

That is skimpy.  Sounds like you might have to bring your own nutrition?

Nutrition, like lots of other training issues, is personal.  And, should be practiced during training sessions. 

If 200-300 calories works for you then that's the way to go.  For me, 300 calories would be too much on a run.  In IM I plan on ~250 calories per hour. 

TJ

Hi Will,

Glad you had a safe trip.

I assume your century ride is just that; a ride.   Do you plan to ride this as a HIM training ride?  If so, your schedule sounds good to me.  It will give you an opportunity to practice your on bike nutrition. 

TJ

Hi Group,

One of my goals is to improve my run speed.  I've been wondering at what pace should I be running in order to improve my speed.  To race fast you have to train fast.  I heard about this running pace calculator at this web site: http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/Running%20University/Article%201/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm .  It seems accurate.  I punched in some of my times and it predicted fairly close to my actuals.  I'm thinking about doing some of my runs based on pace (as opposed to HR).  My long runs will still be HR based and in z1-2.  But I'm thinking of adding some tempo and track workouts.

Check this site out and let me know what you think.

TJ

Hi group,

How about we discuss Lactate Threshold Heart Rate testing.  I ran an LT HR test this past weekend.  I'll post my numbers and we can discuss.  If you have LT HR test numbers, go ahead and post those and we'll discuss those as well.  I've posted these number in the training plan support area also and have the coaches opinions also. 

January 7, 2007
Time: 20'
Pace: 7:49
Distance: 2.57 miles
Avg HR: 172
Max HR: 175 

April, 2006 my data for an LT test was:
Avg Pace: 8:36
Distance: 2.30 miles
Avg HR: 172

Any comments, opinions, etc.?

TJ

Mandy,

Yes.  It's a test to determine Heart Rate (HR) training zones.  There are several ways to determine HR training zones.  The most common and the ones you usually see at health clubs and aerobics classes are the formulas, like 220 - age = max heart rate.  Then use a chart to determine the different zones.  These formulas don't work well for athletes. 

The other extreme are lab tests where they draw blood while you are running on a tread mill.  The blood test looks for the concentration of lactate in your blood.  Lactate is a byproduct of your muscles burning glycogen and increases as the muscle work load increases.  The blood test is looking for the point where your muscles produce more lactate than your body can eliminate from the blood stream.  Too much lactate causes fatigue.  This break over point is called the Lactate Threshold and the heart rate associated with the Lactate Threshold (LT) is the Lactate Threshold Heart Rate (LTHR). 

Most of us don't have access to a lab or want to spend the $$ for the tests.  Several coaches and researchers have developed Field Tests to determine Lactate Threshold Heart Rate.  This is what I did.  To determine your LTHR using a field test, you run (or bike) a 30 minute time trial, meaning run the fastest pace that you can maintain for 30 minutes.  After 10 minutes of running, hit the lap button on your Heart Rate Monitor (HRM).  This will give you the data for the last 20 minutes of the test.  This is the data I'm showing above.  The average HR for the final 20 minutes of the time trial is what we are after.  This average HR is a very good approximation of LTHR.

Next you take the average HR and use the charts developed by Joe Friel (triathlon guru) to determine your HR training zones.  There is also a simple spreadsheet developed by Mike Ricci.  Plug in your average HR (or LTHR) and it gives you your training zones.  I've attached the spreadsheet. 

Running an LTHR test is not easy.  You really have to push yourself.  The key is to run a pace that you can maintain for the full 30 minutes.  On Saturday I started out too fast and blew up after 15 minutes.  I tried again on Sunday and was able to run the full 30 minutes. 

Ask more questions and I'll try to answer. 

TJ

These are all good comments about HR training.  I posted my HR numbers in the Training Plan Support forum. Coach Mike Ricci confirmed that I had improved my aerobic fitness - I am able to run further, faster at the same HR.  I expected to see my LTHR increase a few beats, i.e. move to 173 or 175, but Mike said that doesn't always happen. 

In addition to each period in a training plan emphasizing a particular HR training zone (as Jamie stated), each workout should have a goal or purpose and an appropriate HR zone.  In most of the BT Gold Plans, each workout will state something like Endurance or Form or Speed.  This is the purpose of the workout.  Then the workout write up will tell me what HR to train in.  Most HIM and IM training plans will have most of the workouts in HR training zones 1 and 2.  The plan I use here on BT also has some workouts going into Z 3.

The type of race you are training for will also dictate the HR training zones.  Sprint and Olympic distance race training plans will have many more workouts in zone 4 than an IM or HIM training plan.  Sprint and Oly races are short enough that you can race at or just below LTHR.  So z4 workouts are needed to raise your LTHR and train your body to race at this high intensity.  HIM and IM races are too long to race at your LTHR so most of the training is in Z1-2 in order to improve endurance. 

However, once you have a good endurance base, the only way to race faster is to train faster.

TJ

Will,

No problem.  Post your number here and we'll help you interpret them.

TJ

Great job, Will.  You pulled 90% of the time!  What was everyone else doing; just sitting back and sucking your wheel? 

Your hydration may not have been as bad as you think since the weather was cold.  How did you feel?  The goal in your hydration and nutrition plan is to delay fatigue until after the finish line.  It's not to replace all the calories you burn or replace all the fluid you sweat.  So 3 bottles may have been OK since it was cold and you probably weren't sweating that much.

I'm so ready for warm weather. 

TJ

Jim,

I haven't had problems with cramps so can't really speak from experience.  The 'conventional wisdom' is that cramps are due to hyrdration problems and electrolytes.  But these papers on cramps seem to refute that theory.  These two papers talk about older athletes and stretching routines.  Have a read and see if this could help you:

University of Florida

Leg cramps

Leg Cramps II

TJ

edited to add another link.

2 years ago, I used to rely on my drinks to supply electrolytes.  I never really considered taking extra electrolytes in another form.  Then a started taking electrolyte tablets I bought at a health food store.  That made a tremendous difference in the fatigue level of my legs, especially during the bike.  Now I use Nuun tablets in water.  I try to get about 600 mg of Na/hour (+all the other electrolytes in the Nuun).  That works well for me.

Do you know how many mg of Na you took in?  Add the Na level from all sources, gels, drinks, etc.

So maybe your cramps are related to electrolytes.  As your legs fatigue due to not enough electrolytes then they start to cramp.

TJ

Hello Group.  Sorry I haven't been around lately...work keeps getting in the way.

Anyway, we were discussing cramps, hyrdration and electrolyte needs.

That leads into race and training nutrition in general.  Especially fueling for races.  Some questions to consider:

• How many calories should I take in?
• How much water do I need?
• How much electrolytes should I take in?
• Should my fuel be solid food or liquid only?

Food for thought!   Let's discuss.

TJ