BT Development Mentor Program Archives » Ridgelake's Group - Filled up with Fantastic Folks! Rss Feed  
Moderators: alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 19
 
 
2008-01-03 8:12 PM
in reply to: #1098972

User image

Master
1324
1000100100100
Rochester, NY
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!

Brad,

Documentation on timing of eating.  http://www.e-caps.com/downloads/fuelinghandbook.pdf

This is produced by hammerfuel and its a bit of a sales document for their supplements.  And it focuses a lot on longer endurance events.  But the scientific basis is good.

Page 37 - The Pre-Race Meal - is an article specific to eating before exercise.



2008-01-03 8:36 PM
in reply to: #1130505

User image

Regular
98
252525
Spokane, Washington
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!
Ridgelake, thanks for the diet tips. I am making small changes, not forsaking chocolate altogether ("Chocolate is a gift from God.") I'm eating veggies with dip for my afternoon snacks now. Baby steps.

catjammies, thanks for the swim input. I'll keep it in mind tomorrow when I swim. I have had to concentrate hard on mechanics since I didn't have a coach and I was very awkward in the water at first, but now I don't have to "think" so much with every stroke. The lifeguards don't seem to worry about me anymore. A few times I have gotten into a "zone" where I just swim and forget about time, distance, stroke, etc. I swim well when I'm in that zone, but it doesn't always come.

teresa, where was that endurance swim class? I suppose it was in Idaho. Sounds like a great experience.

Have a great evening everyone.
Joann
2008-01-03 8:53 PM
in reply to: #1098972

User image

Master
1324
1000100100100
Rochester, NY
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!

Teresa, here's a link to the BT articles on HR training.  There are quite a few.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/index.asp?catid=54

You also had questions about the training plans.  Time versus distance.

I actually have not followed a training plan before.  But here's what I see.  1) Time based programs are more common.  For a beginner, they may be safer because you would not be pressing necessarily to reach a given distance.  And time based programs would scale as your fitness improves.  2) Distance based would be one that would ensure you could cover those set distances. 

Both programs would be good though.  I'm sure both have reasonable progressive stresses on the body followed by recovery. 

2008-01-03 9:08 PM
in reply to: #1132443

User image

Master
1324
1000100100100
Rochester, NY
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!

SpokaneJo - 2008-01-03 9:36 PM Ridgelake, thanks for the diet tips. I am making small changes, not forsaking chocolate altogether ("Chocolate is a gift from God." I'm eating veggies with dip for my afternoon snacks now. Baby steps.

Baby steps are indeed the more likely pathway to long term success.  There's very little chance of forsaking a gift from god.  Life's too short.  Easier to save calories in other places.

Just curious, what kind of dip are you using for the veggies?  Some can be very healthy and some can be very high in fat and calories. 

2008-01-04 7:41 AM
in reply to: #1132389

Member
25
25
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!
That is a very comprehensive nutrition article, I had not read a lot of the stuff in there previously. It has some great info ...

Got some things out of it that I am going to try...
2008-01-04 9:42 AM
in reply to: #1098972

User image

Member
47
25
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!
thanks, Rob, for all the fantastic info. I will try to absorb all of it and I'll be back with a whole new set of questions for you.

Joanne, the swim class was at NIC and I don't know if SCC has one, but i do know they have a pool, so I would check.



2008-01-04 10:53 AM
in reply to: #1098972

User image

Extreme Veteran
341
10010010025
Fort Worth, TX
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!

Has there been any issues reported with the BT e-mail notifications? I setup e-mail notifications for updates on this thread, got a few and they stopped a couple of days ago. The domain and sender are on my allowed list, so...?

Frown

 

2008-01-04 11:04 AM
in reply to: #1098972

User image

Extreme Veteran
341
10010010025
Fort Worth, TX
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!

Ok, my first few questions/feelings:

1) With a pool swim that has lane changes each 50m, is there any difference (other then having to pushoff under the lane lines) versus using the same lane for the entire swim? If passing someone is the same ettique used as lap swimming (toe tapping or just blow by them ) ?

2) The biggest thing I am nervous about at this point is the transitions. What are good ways to practice (indoor and outdoor traininng)?

3) What are the main rules to remember when doing your first tri (USAT sanctioned)?

Scooter

2008-01-04 12:38 PM
in reply to: #1133557

User image

Master
1324
1000100100100
Rochester, NY
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!

Scott,

I don't know why your email notification isnt working.  Perhaps send a note to Marmadaddy, one of the site administrators and a heck of a nice guy.

So you're going to do a tri with an indoor pool swim?  Those are fun!

I've done pool swim races both ways, where you move to the next lap lane every 50 meters versus staying in your lane the whole time.  From the swimmer's standpoint, there's not a big difference.  Though it can be a touch confusing as to when to move over.  I made that mistake once.  With staying in the same lane, it usually require more officials to count the laps.

If you're passing someone during a race like that, I'd just go by them.  Thats what I did.  You may have to wait to pass at the pool end, depending on oncoming traffic, but that's what I've done.

Transitions.  He're a link to a BT article on laying out transition areas.  http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=115

To practice, I try to recreate the setup that you'll use, then go through each process.  For the swim to bike transition, it might be worthwhile doing it with wet feet.  Socks don't go on wet feet as well as dry feet.

Rules.  Normally, the race directors will indicate what the rules to follow.  The easiest one to break is drafting on the bike.   And here is another BT article on rules.  http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=114

 

Hope these help!

2008-01-04 1:56 PM
in reply to: #1133557

User image

Regular
82
252525
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!
smeador - 2008-01-04 10:04 AM

Ok, my first few questions/feelings:

1) With a pool swim that has lane changes each 50m, is there any difference (other then having to pushoff under the lane lines) versus using the same lane for the entire swim? If passing someone is the same ettique used as lap swimming (toe tapping or just blow by them ) ?

2) The biggest thing I am nervous about at this point is the transitions. What are good ways to practice (indoor and outdoor traininng)?

3) What are the main rules to remember when doing your first tri (USAT sanctioned)?

Scooter



1) Snake swims are kind of a pain because your normal flip turn that you have done 1000 times needs to be modified every other turn to get under the lane lines. Other than that, the typical stuff is unchanged regarding toe taps, ettiquite, etc.

2) Amen. I was such a snail in the transitions of the two tri's I have done. I thought, naw, I dont need to practice that. I'll need to change that attitude this year.

3) Have fun. (rule # 12, chap.5, subsection 2B)
2008-01-04 4:35 PM
in reply to: #1098972

User image

Champion
5850
50005001001001002525
Michigan
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!
You best stay in your own thread there, Rob. I'm much stronger than I smell look.


2008-01-07 7:31 AM
in reply to: #1098972

User image

Master
1324
1000100100100
Rochester, NY
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!

Happy Monday everyone!

Hope everyone had a good weekend.  So the question of the day is, what went well over the weekend fitness wise?  What didnt go well? 

2008-01-07 7:32 AM
in reply to: #1098972

User image

Champion
5850
50005001001001002525
Michigan
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!
You again?
2008-01-07 8:30 AM
in reply to: #1138280

User image

Master
1324
1000100100100
Rochester, NY
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!

trixie - 2008-01-07 8:32 AM You again?

Trixie, darling, would you like to join this team too?  I know you're on Bob's team already.  But I'm sure the team would be happy to have you join us too. 

2008-01-07 8:35 AM
in reply to: #1138277

Member
25
25
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!
I tried some of the stuff in the nutrition article, and that you mentioned, Rob. And it seems to be working great for me...

My normal daily routine has been, breakfast at 7:30-8am ish... ~100-150 calorie snack at 10am, then another ~100 calories around 11:00-11:30 depending on when(if) I was working out at lunchtime... and have been lethargic on many days...

On Friday, I tried the 2-3 hour in advance thing... had breakfast at 7:30-8 as usual... then I had a larger snack at 10-10:30 timeframe... I had a fruitbowl with probably 300 calories or so... Had nothing else until I worked out, and had tons of energy for the whole workout...

On Saturday, I did not do that and ran out of juice before I was finished my workout. On Sunday, I had large snack at 10 am, biked 40km at 12:30... had tons of energy, then had a relatively large meal half an hour or so later, and did a 2.5km swim ~2.5 hours later, and again had tons of energy.

That combination seems to be working great for me so far. Now I just have to remember to eat that far in advance... lol
2008-01-07 8:48 AM
in reply to: #1098972

User image

Regular
82
252525
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!
Threw my back out, bad, Saturday installing a new kitchen sink.........

yuck

I almost couldnt walk from my car into my office this morning. It sucks getting old


2008-01-07 9:05 AM
in reply to: #1138393

User image

Master
1324
1000100100100
Rochester, NY
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!

catjammies - 2008-01-07 9:48 AM Threw my back out, bad, Saturday installing a new kitchen sink......... yuck I almost couldnt walk from my car into my office this morning. It sucks getting old

UGH!!!!!

Back injuries are the worst.  They are so freaking debilitating.  Take care of it and let us know how its coming along. 

2008-01-07 9:06 AM
in reply to: #1098972

User image

Master
1324
1000100100100
Rochester, NY
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!

Awesome Brad!

Glad the eating timing is working out well.  It makes all the difference feeling that you've got good energy. 

2008-01-07 10:24 AM
in reply to: #1138277

User image

Regular
98
252525
Spokane, Washington
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!
Hi Gang,

What went well over the weekend for me:

I'm happy with my workouts, especially the run/walks. Knees feel fine so far with this gradual buildup. I feel like I'm almost a runner now. Diet (meaning eating habits, not food restriction) is improving - I'm subbing in a lot of veggies for snacks. (Rob, in answer to your dip question, I dip the veggies in Hummus.)

Plus, the Seahawks won, which is always a pleasant shock.

Bad news: Rob, I think I got your cold! Are you careful to wash your hands before using the computer? or maybe it was your avatar sneezing on mine for 2 days.

Take care and have a great week everyone. Sorry about your back, catjammies
2008-01-07 1:22 PM
in reply to: #1138695

User image

Master
1324
1000100100100
Rochester, NY
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!

SpokaneJo - 2008-01-07 11:24 AM  Diet (meaning eating habits, not food restriction) is improving - I'm subbing in a lot of veggies for snacks. (Rob, in answer to your dip question, I dip the veggies in Hummus.)

Bad news: Rob, I think I got your cold! Are you careful to wash your hands before using the computer? or maybe it was your avatar sneezing on mine for 2 days. Take care and have a great week everyone. Sorry about your back, catjammies

Jo!  AWESOME JOB on the veggies and hummus!!  FANTASTIC!  Thats the way to do it!

You allude to a good point.  Dieting.  Skimping on food.  Deprivation.  My personal belief is that they suck and are a waste of time.  Who likes to be hungry?  No one.  Its not something that can realistically be sustained.  Its doomed to fail.  

A much more realistic and SUSTAINABLE thing is to alter food intake to quality foods.  Eat when hungry, just make sure its quality stuff.  Its amazing how much volume you can eat if its quality stuff.

 

And Jo, sorry about the cold.  My icon stopped sneezing yesterday.  Hopefully no one else caught anything. 



Edited by Ridgelake 2008-01-07 1:23 PM
2008-01-07 1:25 PM
in reply to: #1098972

User image

Master
1324
1000100100100
Rochester, NY
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!

Here is an article that my former coach emailed out today.  (I still am on the email distribution list of her group).  Its a nice discussion of LT.

 

By definition lactate is a by-product of anaerobic metabolism that, despite common misconception, is produced across all exercise intensities. In fact, even when you stand up from sitting in a chair, lactate acid is produced. So in training we aim to balance production and absorption.
In light training the rate of production is low. The body retains a balance between production and absorption of Lactic Acid.
In intense training the rate of production is high. The body does not retain a balance, production is faster than absorption.
The point at which productions begins to exceed absorption is our LT.  Essentially this point is  the beginning of the end of high intensity exercise. Excessive blood lactate interferes  with efficient and proper muscle contraction, and as a result, power output drops, suffering increases and you are forced to slow down.
Below is from an article which describes what can affect LT

Factors that affect the rate of lactate accumulation
There are numerous factors that change the rate at which lactate is produced. Each of these could be an article unto itself, so we will have to keep the discussion brief.

Exercise intensity. The harder you work, the more lactate your active muscles produce.
• Diet. If you don't have good stores of glycogen, your high intensity training will be short lived.

Training status. Proper training develops four primary mechanisms to slow the rate of lactate accumulation:

  • Higher mitochondrial density allows for greater lactate resynthesis.
  • Superior fatty acid oxidation prevents lactate production at submaximal exercise intensities. Your body will preferably burn fat over glycogen and this will preserve your glycogen as a fuel source for continued exercise.
  • Greater capillary density improves both oxygen delivery to and lactate removal from the active muscles.

Muscle fiber type composition. Slow twitch (Type I) muscle fibers produce less lactate at a given workload than fast twitch (Type II) muscle fibers. Although there is a big genetic component, proper training can influence the proportion of slow vs. fast twitch muscle fibers.
Distribution of workload. A large muscle mass working at a moderate intensity will produce less excess lactate that a small muscle mass working at a high intensity. Certain cycling techniques will slow the overall accumulation of lactate by using different muscles.

 

What does it all mean?
We have said that LT is one of the strongest predictors of endurance performance. So, if you increase your LT, you will be able to ride faster and put the hurt on your friends and fellow competitors. To take an analogy from one of our fellow coaches at Thrive HFM, Allen Lim, "It's not only the size of your magic wand (VO2max), but how your wield it (LT)." If you train properly, you can have dramatic increases in you LT.

So adhering to your heart rate zones is the way to effectively increase your LT. If you train with power, we don'e care about LT, we care about FTP.
So we can't say that the harder the effort, the higher that point of buildup becomes. What we can say is that a lot of work done in the lower zones...... the aerobic and especially the tempo work, that will effectively be what increases it. You don't want to do a bunch of work at your current LT, because at that point you are working too hard. Work effectively below it.... balancing , adhering to, and being consistent in workouts will be what ultimately increases it.


2008-01-07 1:29 PM
in reply to: #1098972

User image

Master
1324
1000100100100
Rochester, NY
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!

Here is another article from the email group.  Talks about running form. 

 

 

Note: I wrote this in 2005. Reading it now, there are certainly some things that I don't agree with, but as a whole, it reflects my thoughts about running technique. The "book readers" among you will recognize some passages of a well-known running book.


The school of thought that argues that one's so-called natural style is not only best but unchangeable represents a defeatist attitude. It ignores the reality that the nervous system has great adaptive capabilities to incorporate subtle changes in data input that create an improved movement pattern. In so many sports-golf, tennis, swimming, gymnastics, and more-the guidance of coaches expert in designing corrective exercises and instructional commands can bring observable changes in style that contribute to improved performance. The same can occur in running.
With each running stride, the muscles of the landing leg store impact energy as they contract eccentrically to absorb the shock of landing. Most of the stored energy is then used during the concentric muscle contraction that propels the body forward during the next stride; that is, we use the impetus of landing to assist the muscular effort of takeoff.
Indeed, there is growing evidence to suggest that the elastic recoil provided by the tendons contributes a significant proportion (about 30%) of the energy for propulsion, at least when running on flat terrain. It is possible that the muscles of the more economical runners have a greater ability either to store or to utilize this form of impact energy.
A popular idea, implicit in the description of how muscles work is that it is the shortening of contracting muscles that propels the body forward when we run. But running is really a series of bounces in which muscles, tendons, and ligaments alternately store and release the energy absorbed as the feet hit the ground. Indeed, it is similar to the action of a pogo stick or a bouncing ball. The realization that the legs alternately store and release elastic energy during running, that this elasticity probably contributes to running ability and possibly also explains some forms of exercise exhaustion.
The most current biomechanical model of leg action during running is that all the elastic elements in the lower leg muscles act as a single linear spring. The stiffness of that spring can be varied, however, particularly in response to the softness of the surface over which the athlete runs. This is important because the stiffness of the spring determines how the body reacts with the ground during the contact phase of the running cycle.

I believe that good running technique is based on the following three aspects:
- Stride frequency – Keeping it above 88 cycles/minute
- Stance time/Support time – Keeping it as short as possible
- Point of impact – Keeping it below the center of gravity

Associated with these three aspects, which can be called primary, are secondary aspects that basically relate to balance issues:

- Upper body balance
- Head position
- Correct tracking of the lower limbs


Primary aspects

Stride frequency

Daniels is the author that emphasizes stride frequency more. Upon studying the stride frequencies of runners in the 1984 Olympics, he found that elite runners from distances from 400m to the 10000m use stride frequencies above 90 cycles a minute.
Most average to good runners, even those with evident technical deficiencies, employ a stride frequency above 90. This variable is also a good way to find runners with a poor technique, so it is always a good point to start when working with new runners.
The stiffness of the leg spring is independent of running speed but alters with changes in stride frequency. Thus, at the same running speed, the leg spring becomes stiffer the higher the stride frequency (and the shorter the stride length). The stiffer the spring, the less energy that will be absorbed. These findings suggest that the naturally chosen stride frequency when running at the same speed by different runners (of similar mass), must reflect individual differences in the elasticity of their legs.

Support time

About this technical aspect, I’m always reminded of a quote from Chariots of Fire. When working on the track with the athlete, the coach says “Run like you’re running on a hot plate”. When trying to minimize the support time, that is the exact feel that we want to achieve.


Point of impact

Having the point of impact on the ground as below was possible to the center of gravity (CG) of the body is very simple biomechanics. The further forward the point of impact is from the body’s CG, the longer the “braking” phase of the stride, since forward acceleration can only occur after the support point passes the vertical of the CG.


Secondary aspects

Upper body balance

The shoulders and upper arms are also important in running. Though they primarily provide balance at relatively slow speeds, they increase in importance in assisting the leg muscles as running velocity increases and as a runner climbs hills. Adequate arm and shoulder interaction reduces the need for counterrotation of the trunk musculature, which is more energy wasteful. Efficient running style suggests that the arms swing fairly loosely and be held quite naturally. Neither should the shoulders be hunched or pulled back, nor the chest thrust out in front. Unnecessarily tensed muscles suggest a needless waste of energy. The shoulders should be carried above the hips.
Arm action varies with running velocity; it is much more vigorous at faster than at slower velocities. Elbows kept close in toward the body minimize the tendency for the hands and lower arms to cross the midline of the chest. Hands and arms normally should only approach the midline. At a wide range of running velocities the elbow joint is flexed at about 90° and remains that way through the range of arm swing. However, at very fast racing velocities this elbow flexion angle unlocks and varies on either side of 90° to provide more fluidity. Arm swing and leg action are inextricably interwoven. If arm swing tends to be erratic, it detracts from optimal style and is energy costly. The hands should be kept loose and relaxed at all times.

Head position

The head should be poised well above the shoulders. It is a very heavy piece of anatomy, and if it is not positioned properly, it can cause either of two problems, both bad. If it is too far backward, it places an unnecessary strain on the neck muscles. If it is too far forward, it can restrict the airways and make breathing difficult.

Correct tracking of the lower limbs

This aspect is best exemplified by watching sprinters running. Every movement they make is towards the direction of motion, especially the lower limbs. For a correct tracking of the limbs, a correct activation of the hip flexors is very important.

Up-and-Down Movement
There is evidence to suggest that uneconomical runners expend more energy bobbing up and down when they run than do more economical runners, who tend to glide over the ground with very little vertical oscillation. Clayton has described how he thinks he became an economical runner:
“When I started training for marathon distances, my style changed naturally. Running 20 miles a day cut down on my stride length. It also eliminated the tendency to lift my knees. Gradually, my power stride evolved into one of economy. Despite the energy-draining action of my upper body, I developed a very natural leg action I call "The Clayton Shuffle. " Through miles and miles of training, I honed my leg action to such a degree that I barely lifted my leg off the ground. "The Clayton Shuffle" is probably the best thing that ever happened to my running. It was economical and easy on my body.”

2008-01-07 2:11 PM
in reply to: #1098972

User image

Extreme Veteran
341
10010010025
Fort Worth, TX
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!

Question #3 & 4 & weekend update:

This weekend went ok on the workout front, not so much on the nutrition front. I'm still fighting myself some on the holiday habits. My main workout this weekend was a planned 7mi training run around one of the local lakes. Well, my coach forgot where the turn around was so we went and extra .54 miles. I did mind though b/c even though it was a training run I still beat my best 7mi race time by 4m. Was crusing along and enjoying the outdoors!!!!

This is get to know ya'll workout type questions:

Do any of you incorporate the following into your running workouts:

1) Fartleks...If so, what interval?

2) Tempo runs...If so what range or RPE?

 

2008-01-07 2:53 PM
in reply to: #1139451

User image

Master
1324
1000100100100
Rochester, NY
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!
smeador - 2008-01-07 3:11 PM This is get to know ya'll workout type questions:

Do any of you incorporate the following into your running workouts:

1) Fartleks...If so, what interval?

2) Tempo runs...If so what range or RPE?

 

Great job on the PB 7 mile run!  Thats awesome!!

 

Question for you, Scooter.  What do you hope to get out of Fartleks and tempo runs?  What are you trying to accomplish with those?

2008-01-07 3:55 PM
in reply to: #1098972

User image

Extreme Veteran
341
10010010025
Fort Worth, TX
Subject: RE: Ridgelake's Group - Filled Up with Awesome Folks!

Tempo run - On longer runs I am currently using a 6/1 or 7/1 ratio. My goals is to use tempo runs (20m or so) to increase the run time and to build more endurance.

Fartleks - I mostly use these when doing hills. The goal being to maintain my normal race pace on hills. Sometimes I will do them on flat terrain as speedwork to assist in those short but not oft needed sprints (I love taking off on my coach and beating her to the finish line ).

 

 

New Thread
BT Development Mentor Program Archives » Ridgelake's Group - Filled up with Fantastic Folks! Rss Feed  
 
 
of 19