Dominion's Sprint/Oly/70.3 Group--Closed (Page 31)

The 70.3 has been pushed back to next year for me. I'm looking at maybe Charleston in April. We (my brother and I) were originally looking at the Rocketman half for this year in October, but they had so many problems getting their permits and such that it looked like the race wasn't going to happen. I think in the end they got it worked out, but at the time we started looking for an alternative year end race for this year and settled on the Great Floridian. We'll be racing the hybrid 1/3 distance of .8 swim, 38 mile bike, and 8.7 mile run, so should be interesting. I'm hoping that the little bit shorter swim and a little bit longer run (than standard olympic) will help me close that gap a little in our rivalry.

Hey Nate.  This is kind of a tough question because everyone is different.  What kind of intervals are you talking about, base, hills, speed, etc.?  Speed work is typically short intervals at 5K or faster pace and usually done in the month just prior to a race.  My speed intervals before a 70.3 are only 400 yards with 60 second rest.  Now I might do 13-18 of them after a 15 minute warm up and a 15 min. cool down.  Hill intervals usually start before that and not only build strength but help lower your LT threshold.  I have a hill that takes me 2 minutes to run up at race pace that puts my HR just under LT.  I jog easy back down the hill then rinse and repeat.  My base or endurance building doesn't have intervals, just long slow runs.

Every now and then I run without my HR monitor in the off season just for fun!  IMHO a HR monitor is THE best training tool you can purchase and nothing else will give you the biggest bang for your buck to improve your health.

I use 5 zones based off of a lactic threshold field test and I retest and adjust each month of training.  This is probably the "standard" method but defiantly not the only one.  The field test is a pain is a 30 minute run and hard as you can!!  Or you can pay a tri shop or lab to test your blood every few minutes while you keep increasing your speed on a treadmill.  And that can get expensive.  There's an age base test, an age adjusted test, and others.  I can get you a list of books I've read on the topic if you're interested.  People like Maffetone, Moore, and Friel.  

Beginner Triathlete has a HR Zone manager that calculates your zones for you.  Hover on the upper right corner where your name is, click settings.  On the new page click "Training Log Settings" on the lower left.  In the new box you'll find "HR Zone manager".  Click new "Add New HR Zone"  for "run".  Now if you click "Choose a method" you open a new page that describes each method.  The drop down box selects the method.  Choose "age adjusted", enter your age, and click calculate.  TA DA!  Now you can modify and save your zones if you choose.

As far as training plans I've only used BT plans in the last few years.  I modify them slightly to fit my needs but they seem to work for me.

Sorry guys but I have to respectfully disagree.  Would you not be faster if your LT threshold was lower?  Or your VO2 max was improved?  Your cardiovascular system was in top condition?  How about lowering your rested and max heart rate making your body much more efficient?  Wouldn't you be faster no matter the distance and overall improved health?  That's what true cardio adaptation does for you and it's only done slowly over time.  Not to mention injury prevention, physical burnout, and the many other aspects of improved health.  "You need to train slower so you can go faster!"  When Phil Maffetone contacted Mark Allen with a new way to train using heart rate as a training indicator and slowing down to improve his overall performance it changed training forever.  Here's a good and short article and Q&A with Mark Allen:  http://philmaffetone.com/alleninterview/

Out of the 5-6 endurance books I've read all have stressed the importance of true aerobic (base) training for all distances of triathlon, other sports, and improved health.  I've yet to see or read about a training plan from BT, TrainingPeaks, USA Cycling, USA Triathlon, or anyone else that doesn't have base building as the key and done throughout the season.  For 5K up to full distance triathlons.  I'm talking reputable training organizations not Joe Blow's article he sold to Men's Health for $50.

Something else to look at:  http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2010/10/base-1-training-part-1.html

I agree 100% with the comments that training slow is really hard to do, I know!!  It was one of the hardest things for me to get used to.  Now I can run and never hit Z3.  In fact, I can target any zone and stay there or move from one to another.  It's a little harder for me on the bike and no way in a group ride!  I just feel like I should be going faster, lol.

I ran for weight loss for 3-4 years before I did my first race, a 5K.  It's a wonder I didn't kill myself!!  After researching endurance training after my first sprint tri I took six months off just to try a base building plan to improve my aerobic system.  I ate very clean, got rest, and stuck with it.  Wow!  That's when I saw the difference between my 40 lb. weight loss and truly being healthily!  I was a fat burning machine!  My allergies are all but gone and I haven't been sick in years. 

You're training is personal to you.  Do what you enjoy and what keeps you getting out there.  But don't underestimate the benefits of aerobic training and maintaining a solid base.

X

So this is an interesting debate, and I've been trying to find the time to sit down and weigh in with my thoughts. 

Now in full disclosure, I am very "old school" when it comes to technology. I personally don't use a HR monitor. I don't have a Garmin, don't use Strava, etc. You get the picture. I have a stopwatch. 

I want to be careful how I say this, because I do feel that HR monitors and other tools can be useful but I also feel that sometimes athletes today come to depend on them too much. I think it is important to develop a feel and intuition over time and sometimes the gadgets can take away from that.  To Monty's point, I don't think anyone is saying that a solid true base shouldn't be built. And that base has to be built through consistent volume. Volume you won't achieve if you are going out to bury yourself every workout. Obviously if all of your runs/workouts are in Z4 or Z5, you probably aren't going to last very long, as mentioned due to injury and/or burnout.  

In my case, I know what the purpose of each workout is before I head out the door. I know from experience where I should be regarding intensity for that particular workout. I know what a 6:00 minute mile feels like, what a 7:00 or an 8:00 feels like. I could probably tell you within 5-10 points what my heart rate is at any given time. If you can develop an accurate RPE (Rate of Perceived Exertion, Usually scaled 1-10) AND have the proper understanding of what each workout and each training phase is designed to accomplish, then I think you are fine without the monitor and probably better off in the long run. Remember heart rate can also be affected by such things as stress, lack of sleep, caffeine, etc. You don't necessarily want to rely solely on what the monitor is telling you and have no insight into what is really going on within your body. Now RPE can also be affected by things such as stress or lack of sleep, etc. But that is the point, you can feel it and you can learn to recognize it.  With experience you can make the proper adjustments within the workout itself. Given the external circumstances, this week's long run might need to be at a slightly slower pace than last week's long run. Learn to recognize that through RPE and adjust accordingly.

All that being said, a HR monitor is not a bad way to go. Many of my clients use one and I review their data and will correct them if they are way off base on what a particular workout should be.  If you are using one and it works for you, then no need to change, but to answer one of the OP (Jenn's) original questions, there are alternatives, RPE being one of them.

In a sense, I'm pretty much using the same HR methodology, I'm just doing it without the monitor. Relying more on experience and feel. It may not be for everyone, but I think it is a valuable skill/aptitude to develop.  

Beware of brothers who claim to have not been training much. I'ved been burned by that one before!

What does the CFB cup stand for again?

Congrats!  25' is a good time, and at night even!  I had a 3 PM race one time and didn't do very well.  I felt like I sat around all day waiting for it. 

I didn't mean to step on any toes with my post and I apologize if I did.  I only meant to stress the importance of aerobic training more than just wearing a HR monitor.  It's a excellent tool to achieve that goal.  Chis made some good points about Rate of Perceived Exertion and I'm glad he commented.  RPE is an excellent way to judge your work load and there's a lot of plans based on it for those who don't use a monitor.  Heck, that's how we all train our swimming, right?  

After I started using a monitor I found times that the way I felt didn't always express my true work load.  And, I could accurately dial in zones that were hard for me find or maintain without it, like holding Z3 for 20 minutes.  Like Chris said there are many factors that can affect your HR during a workout.  Ambient temp, hydration, nutrition, injury, rest, cars driving by, hills, on, and on...  I also like to track my HR and review how much time I've spent in each zone during training, compare that with my pace, etc.  Chris has obviously had success with his training using RPE as well as many others.  So it's up to the individual.

Now I'll try and answer your question.  Yes, I would estimate that 80/20 would be a good balance no matter the distance or the total training volume goal.  The qualifier is the changes throughout my training cycle.  It takes more volume to build endurance, less to build strength, and speed is the easiest to improve.  You lose it opposite.  If you just stopped working out your speed would decline first, strength, then endurance.  SO, after building an endurance base you can back off slowly and start implementing strength midway, then speed towards the end of your plan.

Most of my training plans are 12-20 weeks depending on the distance of the race and intensity of the plan.  Obviously a 5K will require a lot less volume then a marathon but the overall plan is the same.  My plans all assume I have some volume established when I start the plan.  So add 4-8 weeks of building volume onto the front.  This established volume comes from training in Z1-2 only.  No speed, no hills, no heavy weights in the gym, etc.  

When my plan starts I start implementing strength in one of my weekly workouts.  If I have three runs that week I might allow my HR to go into low Z3 on one or two runs, the third stays in Z1-2.  That slowly increases until I'm running up hill intervals like I described earlier.  Run hard up hill to HR Z5 then jog back down to recover at lower Z2, rinse and repeat.  No matter the distance of the race.  A 5K would be fewer, short intervals with little rest while a marathon would be a lot of long intervals with more recovery between each.  I always (try) to do a minimum of 10 minutes warm up and cool down in Z1.  After a hard workout staying in Z1 to cold down might be walking!!

My speed work is slowly introduced into my plan the same way but later.  I'll start with a good Z1-2 warm up then take my HR into Z3 and keep it there for a period of time, adjusting pace with hills, wind, etc.  As my plan builds the zone and the time in that zone increase.  Maybe Z2 warm up, then Z3 for a while, then a short time in Z4, and back to Z3.  Sometimes it's in and out of Z3 and Z4 several times.  In the last weeks I'll be running a lot of intervals on the track at 5K or better pace with recoveries between.  I LOVE fartlek runs!  Just speed up and slow down as you feel like it!!

One other note: Z1 is considered the recovery zone.  If you have a good hard workout it might be good to do a recovery run, or ride, the next day instead of taking the day off. 

If you can get in 1-2 runs/rides a week start far enough out from your race that you can build endurance.  Start implementing strength in one of your weekly workouts but keep the other aerobic.  Maybe go from there to every 3rd or 4th run keep aerobic.  Then start adding some speed.  Same for bike and swimming.

Just my two cents...

Excellent Post. Good insight.

Yep, Josiah Middaugh. Great quote.

https://www.facebook.com/ndrmultisport?ref=hl

August Totals:

S: 23,025 yards

B: 330 miles

R: 77 miles

Pretty solid month for me. Should set me up well for the my final push through September and into October.

Thanks for the great report, Scott! You seem to be following the same pattern as me with a running background, but soon finding cycling and then swimming becoming a stronger relative discipline. I think this may come from the fact that many more people come from a running background into triathlon than the other sports. So with consistent training in the water and on the bike, you can begin to separate yourself from many of the "runner's" out there.