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2008-08-12 7:00 PM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL
tahrens - 2008-08-12 4:38 PM

I do have one question... how come my endurance in swimming is getting better, but my sprint time doesn't seem to be?  In my swim this afternoon I timed my 100 yards and it still is around 2 minutes!!  Yet  I can bang out 1000 yards and not be tired at all.  I thought that with endurance came speed, but I guess not for me.  This isn't a big deal for my olympic, but I would like to see the results for my Sprint  races.  Is this happening to anyone else?  Any advise on where to go with this?

 

SPEEDWORK!!! That is it... Start doing drills that are requiring you 2:05x100 then rest 45 seconds, then 2:00x100 then rest 45 seconds, then push below 2mins and try 2x.... and build from this... You can get there!  It is like doing speedwork on the Track... only in a pool.... On another note I was reading something about nutrition in races: 

Long Course Nutrition - Not A Zero Sum Game

As an athlete plans their nutritional requirements for a long or ultra distance race, the most important thing to understand is that there is no way that they can replace all the calories they burn during the event. For a conservative estimate, an IM athlete is going to burn 450Cal swimming, 4500Cal cycling and 2600Cal running for a total expenditure of 7550Cal during their race. Assuming that this athlete is a 12 hour finisher, they would need to replace more than 650Cal/hr throughout the race.

The good news, is that unlike short course racing, where the majority of the energy is going to be provided by carbohydrates (most of which are already stored in the body prior to the race), as the intensity decreases, the amount of calories from stored fat is going to increase while the amount of energy from carbs is going to decrease. For even very lean athletes, they are going to have at least 20,000Cal of stored energy in fat which is going to provide most of the fuel for race day.

However, as anyone who has completed a long or ultra distance event (or even a long training day) can tell you, eating is crucial and is going to make the difference between finishing the race and ending up in the med tent. So, why is taking in fuel going to be important if the body has so many stored calories? The reason is that although fat can be utilized as fuel, the body needs carbohydrates in order to use the calories in fat.

So, if an athlete needs to eat but cannot look to replace all the calories they burn during the event, where is the athlete to start? A good starting place for an athlete is going to be 300Cal/hr on the bike and 200Cal/hr on the run. Using long rides and runs, in addition to race simulations, an athlete can refine the number of calories they are going to be able to consume during race specific efforts and use this to build a plan that will get them through the finish line.

Also, as an athlete develops their fueling strategy, I believe they should avoid making a plan that is too intricate; if the athlete can handle what will be served on course, this greatly simplifies the logistics and also helps reduce the possibility of not having sufficient nutrition or having to overload their bike. The picture shows the bike of an athlete who plans to supply their own calories for an entire IM ride (plus a few extra calories, just in case). For example, in reading through some plans and race reports, I will see that an athlete would have a gel, sports drink, part of an energy bar and a piece of banana each hour. While it might seem like a good idea to have several sources for calories, in the end it adds the possibility of confusion on fueling during the race.

The other thing that can cause problems is going with one source of calories that you mix and is not available on course. While having a two to three hour bottle is great for training rides as you only need to stop to refill water, on race day if you drop your fuel in the first few miles of the ride, it is a long way to go to special needs before you can get more of your preferred fuel.

As a race goes beyond approximately three hours, nutrition is going to become a crucial element to race day success. Knowing that you will not be able to replenish all the calories that are burnt during an event and practicing your strategy in your training is going put you on the right track to getting to the finish line appropriately fueled.


2008-08-12 7:01 PM
in reply to: #1369643

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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL

And for Shorter Course Stuff....

Short Course Nutrition - It's Not An Eating Contest

Nutrition is one of the things that athletes love to discuss and, when things go wrong in a race, it is often the first thing to get the blame. Especially now, in the midst of most northern hemisphere athlete's competitive seasons, you can hear athletes discussing their nutrition plan in transition, at group workouts and on the forums. Unfortunately, many athletes make the mistake of over complicating the entire process. For the time being, we will focus on short course racing and what an athlete really needs to get through race day.

The first thing that needs to be considered is the amount of glycogen that is already stored in the body; most people have between one hour and two hours of stored glycogen (athletes will typically be towards the higher end of the spectrum). What this means is that for most athletes completing a sprint race they can race without taking in any calories and for an Olympic distance they will probably need to take in some calories on race day.

Then, the timing for the calories needs to be considered: while racing short course, the body has a very limited ability to digest food so the best time to take in calories for short course racing is going to be before the race. If an athlete needs to take additional calories during the race, the perfect time is while on the bike as the the intensity is often slightly lower and the contents of the stomach are not going to be churned around as much as they will be on the run. Finally, if an athlete feels they need to take calories on the run, keep in mind that it takes about thirty minutes for consumed calories to be useful so the early part of the run is going to be when calories should be consumed.

The key for an athlete is going to be to have a good breakfast; this is going to vary from athlete to athlete but if possible I prefer liquid calories (Ensure, Boost, etc) and between 250-300Cal about three hours from race start. Following this, sip water until about thirty minutes out, when the athlete can either have a gel or start sipping on a sports drink.

Depending on the race duration, the caloric needs of the athlete are going to vary. For an athlete who plans to be done under an hour and a half, I would suggest the athlete takes nothing but a few sips of water throughout the rest of the race. For the athlete that is going to go between an hour and a half and two and a half hours, I would have them take 100-200Cal on the bike. For athletes that are going to be on the course longer than two and a half hours, I would suggest about 100Cal for each thirty minutes on the bike and 50Cal for each thirty minutes on the run.

For many athletes, these recommendations will seem low as we have been conditioned to think that if we are not fueling throughout any race, we will bonk. For example of the conditioning we receive, at an OD race I did this year that had a two loop run course, there were six gel stops available on each loop. So at this race, simply eating what was on the course, an athlete could have consumed 1200Cal in 10km of running! It is commonly accepted that a mile of running burns 100Cal so an athlete on this course could have actually consumed twice the calories they burned on the run course and 1000Cal more than most athletes could process in this time.

With your fueling, keep things simple; with your normal fueling through the week leading to a race and a good breakfast before the race, your caloric needs during the race are going to be minimal. I would suggest experimenting with this on some harder training days so you can find what works for you but this is a case of less is more.
2008-08-12 7:52 PM
in reply to: #1369643

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Master
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL
That was a fantastic read!  Thanks so much for doing the leg work for us.  I have been wondering those same questions. What a great mentor!!!
2008-08-12 8:45 PM
in reply to: #1598917

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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL

tahrens - 2008-08-12 5:52 PM That was a fantastic read!  Thanks so much for doing the leg work for us.  I have been wondering those same questions. What a great mentor!!!

x2222222222

2008-08-12 9:45 PM
in reply to: #1369643

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Master
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL

Tracy training after breaking a nail!  Don't you hate that!!!!   (I think I should make this my new avatar - who needs Trixie )

 

2008-08-13 7:30 AM
in reply to: #1369643

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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL
Great articles Steve. I also was wondering about those questions. Now I know that drinking an replensiment drink on the bike might help a bit in the run but probably not mcuh as I am still around and hour and a half for a race.
I knew there was more to this mentor thing than picking on Tracy. Although that is the most fun.
Good 1000 m swim today almost no pain in the shoulder. I think its fixed!!!! Last day at work before the wedding so I probably won't be on here much for the next few days. Good luck to everyone who is racing over the next couple of weeks.

Enjoy the training, enjoy the racing, but most of all enjoy life.

One last thing Tracy.... please don't break a nail.

Edited by Redknight 2008-08-13 7:31 AM


2008-08-13 8:48 AM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL
For those of you who do 2+ hour training sessions, what do you eat for solid food?  I like Cliff bars before and as a snack during the day if I need it, but I can't get them down during a workout.  In fact, most solids make me gag and sit like a brick in my stomach.  I have been working with Gus and Cytomax drink, but as I am getting stronger I feel the tummy growling while I'm out.  Now that  I finally can, I have started incorporating longer workouts into my training, but golly I'm hungry. What works for you guys?
2008-08-13 9:13 AM
in reply to: #1599717

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Master
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL
tahrens - 2008-08-13 9:48 AM

For those of you who do 2+ hour training sessions, what do you eat for solid food?  I like Cliff bars before and as a snack during the day if I need it, but I can't get them down during a workout.  In fact, most solids make me gag and sit like a brick in my stomach.  I have been working with Gus and Cytomax drink, but as I am getting stronger I feel the tummy growling while I'm out.  Now that  I finally can, I have started incorporating longer workouts into my training, but golly I'm hungry. What works for you guys?


I find that now that I am doing some longer workouts that I too am much hungrier. Ever since my last tri (a sprint) I am always higry but seem to fill up quickly at meals times. Maybe smaller meals but more often would help. There are days when I feel like I can't get enough food. I have increased my intake of calories as I am probably using many more now. I also make sure I eat before I train but not during the trainng. Generally I only drink water for any training under and hour and a half.
I'm still trying differnt energy foods. I find the I gag on Gu so am trying other stuff for race days.
I have also been havingsome difficulty getting myself motivated to train. I do go but it seems I am battling myself until the point of getting ready to go. Very weird sensation as I want to improve and do better.
2008-08-13 10:32 AM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL

tahrens - 2008-08-13 6:48 AM For those of you who do 2+ hour training sessions, what do you eat for solid food?  I like Cliff bars before and as a snack during the day if I need it, but I can't get them down during a workout.  In fact, most solids make me gag and sit like a brick in my stomach.  I have been working with Gus and Cytomax drink, but as I am getting stronger I feel the tummy growling while I'm out.  Now that  I finally can, I have started incorporating longer workouts into my training, but golly I'm hungry. What works for you guys?

I usually don't ever eat "solid food."  Try eating clif blocks, sport beans, etc... If you don't like GU's that is fine.  There are plenty of other foods out there.  If you are getting hungry you need more calories--- Try adding another scoop of Cytomax into your drink.  I use Infinit for my nutrition along w/ Chocolate GU's (or Chocolate Hammer Gel's) w/ lots of thermolytes.   My water bottle usually contains 300-400 calories in it, and most long rides I end up drinking 2-3 of them.  You never want to finish a workout feeling totally starving!

2008-08-13 10:43 AM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL

I just got this email from CTS ---- Looks like it might be fun?!  A bit far for me to travel... But for others... Looks nice!

Thanks for all for the kind words.... "MENTORING!"  Yeah right... I think you guys have taught me more than I have taught you!  Although making funny of Tracey is pretty dang fun!



Edited by swbkrun 2008-08-13 10:52 AM




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2008-08-13 4:02 PM
in reply to: #1600218

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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL

.... "MENTORING!"  Yeah right... I think you guys have taught me more than I have taught you!  Although making funny of Tracey is pretty dang fun!

Glad to do my part!  At least I'm not that guy in front!!!



Edited by tahrens 2008-08-13 4:02 PM


2008-08-13 4:25 PM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL

So you would rather be "the pitcher" and "the catcher"

 

 

Ok... I have crossed the line.. I couldn't resist!

2008-08-13 8:44 PM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL
swbkrun - 2008-08-13 5:25 PM

So you would rather be "the pitcher" and "the catcher"

 

 

Ok... I have crossed the line.. I couldn't resist!



Just be glad that is not naked bike racing. ewwwwwww over the line again.
2008-08-14 6:56 AM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL

Steve,

How do you like infinit?  everyoene raves about it, do you get the protien in it or not?

 

2008-08-14 9:58 AM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL
Redknight - 2008-08-13 6:44 PM
swbkrun - 2008-08-13 5:25 PM

So you would rather be "the pitcher" and "the catcher"

 

 

Ok... I have crossed the line.. I couldn't resist!

Just be glad that is not naked bike racing. ewwwwwww over the line again.

 

Keep in mind (I think I recall) that she has a vibrating seat for her bike.....

2008-08-14 10:19 AM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL
dalessit - 2008-08-14 4:56 AM

Steve,

How do you like infinit?  everyoene raves about it, do you get the protien in it or not?

 

 

I love it.  Getting the right balance can be tricky...  If you put a lot of sodium in there, it can really taste salty... But a few things about them... You can CALL THEM, and tell them what you are interested in (what you do, how much you sweat, what you are training for, etc...) and they will help you design a formula.   If you don't like you mixture you can send it back and try again.  You can make your own formula (which is what I do) or buy a pre-mix formula...



2008-08-14 10:21 AM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL
Thanks for the info. My long runs are currently 2+ hours and my long bike rides are 3 hours-4 hours. I have not been getting enough calories on either, so this will help me to experiment in those better ranges.

Speaking of experimenting, I went to a friend's party lastnight and had a burger and such around 6pm. I got home around 8:30 pm and well had to get my 9 mile run in before bedtime. It was um not long enough between dinner and running. Ouche side cramps oh plenty, but struggled through it. Mental note, don't do that again.

Sucks, 2 more weeks until our only pool closes. I may have to make the 140 mile drive and camp overnight to get a few swims in before the water temp drops too much. I need like 3 days off a week to be able to get all my workouts in 8(. Do ya think my boss will go for it?
2008-08-14 12:52 PM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL

I put a little BT Album together of our last trip....

 

2008-08-14 7:48 PM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL

OK OK IT'S OFFICIAL!!!  Oh man... I am not ready for this!

BIB NUMBERLAST NAMEFIRST NAMEAGESEXCLASSIFICATIONDIVISIONCITYST/PROVCOUNTRY

1132           TAN          IGO          45   M  AGE                M45-49     CALGARYAB    CAN

 

BIB NUMBERLAST NAMEFIRST NAMEAGESEXCLASSIFICATIONDIVISIONCITYST/PROVCOUNTRYCOUNTRY REPOCCUPATION
341BIRDSSTEVE32MAGEM30-34BELLEVUEWAUSA SALE

2008-08-14 11:23 PM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL
Woot glad its you not me 8), kinda.

Man short 27 mile bike ride tonight after work, was till 100F when I got home, 15 ish mph wind. Kicked my butt. I took 40 oz water with me for a 90 min ride and still lost net 1 pound in weight. That 15 mph wind in my face on the way back was unkind. It will be 100 ish for the next 4-5 days.... I may just have to become a morning person.

I noticed that heat over 95 F really raises the heart rate when working out and totaly sucks the moisture from your body. Maybe it is time to just work on swimming for an entire week 8).

Edited by Baowolf 2008-08-14 11:23 PM
2008-08-15 9:24 AM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL

Baowolf - 2008-08-14 11:23 PM Woot glad its you not me 8), kinda. Man short 27 mile bike ride tonight after work, was till 100F when I got home, 15 ish mph wind. Kicked my butt. I took 40 oz water with me for a 90 min ride and still lost net 1 pound in weight. That 15 mph wind in my face on the way back was unkind. It will be 100 ish for the next 4-5 days.... I may just have to become a morning person. I noticed that heat over 95 F really raises the heart rate when working out and totaly sucks the moisture from your body. Maybe it is time to just work on swimming for an entire week 8).

 
Welcome to my world and the 100+ degree heat...  I think we have already had 48 or so days over 100 this year.  It is brutal. 



2008-08-15 11:53 AM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL
Ouche. We typically hang out in the mid 90s durring the summer which is sooo much better than 99/100+. And there is no shade.

How much water do you take on long bike rides? The other day I took 100 oz water on a 66 mile bike ride and well ran out at mile 53 (temp 95 F + ). Got to hate it when you go to swallow and your throat sticks together or you have trouble getting your tonge back off your dry lips when you lick them reflexively.

Fearless leader, there any good info on water consumption by temp once you get over 90 F?

I imagine that if I am going through that much water I should think about electrolyte replacement as well?

2008-08-15 12:06 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL

Baowolf - 2008-08-15 12:53 PM Ouche. We typically hang out in the mid 90s durring the summer which is sooo much better than 99/100+. And there is no shade. How much water do you take on long bike rides? The other day I took 100 oz water on a 66 mile bike ride and well ran out at mile 53 (temp 95 F + ). Got to hate it when you go to swallow and your throat sticks together or you have trouble getting your tonge back off your dry lips when you lick them reflexively. Fearless leader, there any good info on water consumption by temp once you get over 90 F? I imagine that if I am going through that much water I should think about electrolyte replacement as well?

I know I'm not the fearless leader, but we have been having weeks of 95+ temperatures as well. I plan my routes to pass by gas stations. They either let you fill your water bottles off the outdoor faucets, or you can buy more water.

2008-08-15 2:06 PM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL

So is Matt the only one racing this weekend?   I am doing a 50 mile charity ride with a guy from work.  He just started riding and is really worried that I am going to drop him (what a laugh).  Young guys are so cute.  Oh, to be 22, single, and training............. and did I mention is YOUNGER brother is joining us?  I feel like such a grandma!!! 

 Best of luck Matt. 

2008-08-15 4:01 PM
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Subject: RE: swbkrun's group - FULL
tahrens - 2008-08-15 12:06 PM

So is Matt the only one racing this weekend?   I am doing a 50 mile charity ride with a guy from work.  He just started riding and is really worried that I am going to drop him (what a laugh).  Young guys are so cute.  Oh, to be 22, single, and training............. and did I mention is YOUNGER brother is joining us?  I feel like such a grandma!!! 

 Best of luck Matt. 

I've been having lingering respiratory issues from the cold I had last week and am a little concerned about my race tomorrow.  To top it off, we have a 'stagnant air' warning w/ the highest temps of the year and "People with respiratory problems might want to limit outdoor activity" (from our local paper).

Coincidentally, I needed to renew a prescription and the doc is requiring an office visit since it's been over a year since he saw me last.  So when I see him this afternoon I'll be using it as opportunity to see if I'm rightly concerned about tri'ing tomorrow.  He's a runner and cyclist, so I think I'll get some pretty solid advice.

I'll let you know how it goes.....

Oh, and Tracy - you should put those young bucks in their place.  What's the quote I saw here? "Age and trechery will win over youth and skill every time"

Have a good weekend everyone!!!  Try to stay cool.

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