Video games & TV - Desenstizing? (Page 4)

As far as I know, the data looks only at total screen time, not content. And the magic number is around 2 hours.

It may well be that simply spending that much time in a solitary activity without actual interactions is the problem, regardless of content. But the data suggests that skills can be learned from video games (or "virtual reality", as it is referred to in most studies), and there is no reason to think that aggression is somehow exempted.

There is certainly evidence from other media (movies in particular) that people will model behaviors after them. Not just things like eating disorders in women trying to look unattainably thin, or obesity in cultures that are exposed to Western TV, but even in the West, where mobsters started to act more like characters from "The Godfather".

Why don't you just say, "we don't know"?  

There are so many other variables to consider that you can't possibly know.

I respect your education and experience.....but this is voodoo science.....you can't make any absolute conclusions based on any of it.

Even your example of "The Godfather"......really?  They emulate it?  Really?  Where did the idea of the movie come from?  Outer space?  I like the movie......what does that say about me? If you execute a search warrant at my home (good luck with that) you will find a copy of The Godfather and Goodfellows....BECAUSE THEY ARE GOOD MOVIES.

Here's a news flash.....these little "bangers" didn't get the idea from "The Godfather"....that's absurd.  They modeled the movie to join a street gang?  That's what you've all come up with? That's absolutely ridiculous.  

If you'd like, I'll go ask them. (I'll do it for you, I already know the answer because I've spent time with them)

Because in science we rarely will say that we know something in an absolute fashion. We have data, we have theoretical models that seem to predict and/or explain the world as it appears. 

If that's what you got from the article (that mobsters like the Godfather movie), you missed the point. The movie and the book before it took some real life material and added to it (art imitating life). Then actual mobsters adopted the speech and behavior patterns from the movie (life imitating art). The article was the not the first to observe this, just the first that came up in my quick search to find supporting documentation.

It's clear that you already have your mind made up about whether or not media exposure influences behaviors, so I am not going to bother anymore with this discussion.

So we're supposed to take your "years of experience" and observation over scientific studies that may have "some" margin of error?.... um yeah...

I'll echo your phrase... Why don't you just say, "we don't know"?

So far you'd been adamant that you DO know.... with no proof (other than anecdotal) whatsoever...

So the rule in our house is no more than an hour a day, but admittedly we can lose track of time sometimes and it will bleed over a bit.  Additionally, I don't put a limit on my 3 yr old because his video games are phonics games and I figure I'll let him play those until he gets bored.  That may be bad parenting on my part, but I can't come up with any good reason not to let him play games that help him learn to identify letters on the way to reading, until he gets bored with them.

Anyway, yesterday I come home and my two sons are playing on the xbox kinect (all body, no hand held controllers).  They are jumping around the living room waving their hands around and having a general blast, not sitting on the couch zoned out getting a thumb workout.  Looking at the data that GB posted on screen time of over 2 hours can start to turn counter productive.  And so I sat and watched them for a bit and watched them playing together and knowing what the studies say (that I believe are based more on single player hand held controllers) and I really had a hard time working out logically why I should limit that time.  However I think it is specific to the multi player kinect type games, and not the hand held controllers.

With the evolution of these VR type games I wonder if the same studies apply, I guess?

Left Brain - 2012-07-25 10:16 AM You guys are funny.  TriSquared has already quit the "discussion" once and now GB is out too.  Apparently it's only a discussion if you can make people agree with your point of view.

I think the point is more why bother to belabor the issue with someone who obviously has little to no respect for your professional expertise eg. calling it voodoo science.  You say all the studies are bunk... where is your evidence?  Where is your statistical analysis of crime data that rules out the possibility?  Raw statistics will not cut it in science without some form of control regime to weed out extraneous causes.  Without that anlysis all you have is supposition and what you think you know without any rigorous treatment of the question.  You have been given multiple pieces of evidencery support contrary to your opinion and your only fall back position is that neuroscienc and phychology/psychiatry, well established field of study with proven track records, is actually voodoo science.  What more is there to argue?

Left Brain - 2012-07-25 10:16 AM You guys are funny.  TriSquared has already quit the "discussion" once and now GB is out too.  Apparently it's only a discussion if you can make people agree with your point of view.

You seem to be very good at avoiding questions and ignoring science... so why continue?

I can't locate it now, but there was a study sometime in the last year looking at Kinect and finding that contrary to expectations, there was not improvement in overall health measures. I think it was looking at either BMI or blood markers like cholesterol or triglycerides. Like I said, I can't recall where I saw it, and it was just one study. But it might be that the data needs to be replicated, or it might be that it (full body video-gaming) fails to compensate for the detrimental effects of sitting, or it might be that it just gives the illusion of being as active as actually doing things.

I think the bottom line is to pay close attention to how active your kids are overall. The digital world is littered with ideas and gadgets meant to improve kids' (and adults') health. Baby Einstein comes to mind right away.

I give...

All the smart people in the room win and the rest lose.  TV and Video games ARE desensatize us - no question about it...  The world is coming to an end.  Woe is me.

Sincerily,

Chicken Little

Interesting.  That is contrary to what I would have thought. (obviously, since I stated what I thought..... duh) 

We did Baby Einstein out the wahzooo.  Enough that it burned me out on classical music for the most part.

Wait....don't leave me in this alone.....this is a scary place.   I fear I have become desensitized to studies. 

Dennis Leary says, "I would never spank my kids... waving my gun around usually gets the point across".

Heh heh...

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/

(viewer warning: bad word in there, might desensitize you to cursing...)

So what I want to know is for all you that think video games are "desensitizing"... what exactly does that mean? What is the out come of a "desensitized" person?

I mean a few say it does not lead to violent behavior, but it does desensitize. Well what is the problem?

I'll treat this as a serious question and not an effort to engage in baiting.

Exposure to anxiogenic phenomenon leads to less anxiety in the presence of the phenomenon. In some cases, this is the desired goal - think of someone who is, for example, afraid of dogs. Exposure to dogs over time in a "safe setting" - i.e. one in which the fears of being mauled by the dog will not come to pass - leads to less anxiety about dogs. Or fear of rejection - if you allow yourself to be rejected a lot (a common cognitive-therapy "homework" - collect 100 rejections), you become desensitized and have less anxiety about engaging others.

So, like any tool, it can be used for positive or negative outcomes. Becoming less anxious about running into stray dogs, or asking people for a date, or having to make a phone call are all likely to improve life for both the person with the anxiety as well as society at large. Becoming less distressed about the infliction of harm to others? May not be so good. 

It is not a simple 1:1 correspondence. There are other factors. Animal cruelty, for example, is the best known precursor to sociopathic behavior. In large part because it is a clear example of practice, exposure, and desensitization to the more common societal norms (and hopefully internalized prohibitions) about harming others.

Gee... how big of you.

Hopefully you will take this as a serious response...

So then, what's the point? I watch violence on the big screen, on TV, in video games. I'm desensitized.... yet does that change my behavior?

I've seen tens of thousands of people get punched out, yet I have actually never punched anyone out... like on TV.. just punch someone cause they had it coming like all the good guys do.

If I am desensitized to a action, then you are telling me I am more likely to do that action. But not for me, because no matter how much violence I have committed on the computer, I have never killed anything with a chainsaw, set a living thing on fire, or shot everyone I saw. I would be completely horrified if I ever saw that in real life.

Yet we do know some people are susceptible to influence. So what does that say about a person that can't distinguish between fantasy and reality? I mean we are talking chicken/egg here. Did media desensitize the person and cause behavior, or was the person already  predisposed to such actions because they have no concept of reality and fantasy and real life consequences?

I remember the trial when D&D was sued for the kid that killed himself over having his bazillion level character killed. I remember the shrink for the defense basically saying if you kid kills himself over this, he has much bigger issues going on.

Hey Gearboy......here's a serious question.  Three people who have been to my house for pool parties, dinner, etc. have been shot to death. Two of them have kids that my kids regularly text with, etc.  Do you think that has desensitized my children to violence?  

They seem well adjusted......good grades, invloved in school on many levels, extremely healthy and fit, plenty of friends. 

They do play video games....my son will put the headphones on and catch an all-nighter sometimes in the summer with his buddies.  I know them all....great kids.

Maybe I should get them some counseling?

Eh.....everything I wrote is true.....but yeah, I'm baiting you....because I don't buy any of it.  

Be a parent to your kid....it trumps everything.  

Sitting in front of a video game all day isn't the problem. Harming animals isn't the problem. Those are symptoms.  The problem is people who have children and don't nurture them....sorry, I don't have a study to link.  I figured it out on my own the first time I set eyes on a child of mine.

Now I'm done with this....because it doesn't make any sense to me.

ETA - as long as I'm on a rant...    You know what, I didn't come up with it on my own.....I was nurtured by good parents as a child as well.  So were my brother and sister.  We all have the careers we dreamed of as children, don't have any problems that cause us to not get along in the world, and lead happy lives. Our children thrive.  I'm sure there's a study somewhere on why that works.

And TriRsquared......here's my answer to your question....NO...I don't think children are desensitized by a GAME.  I think they are desensitized by being left alone.  They are desensitized by parents who don't take the time to tell them how much they love them and explain the difference between a game and real life.  They are desensitized by parents who don't cherish every moment they can spend with their kids.

I'm not surprised that this "discussion" went where it did, because it's dumb.  This is REALLY easy stuff.

Over and out!  

And I tend to agree with this.  It's not a single factor.  A child who is loved, nurtured, and played with by his parents who happens to play a few violent games is probably not going to be an issue.

However it's hard to separate the two and it's a fine line.  From personal experience (which is worth exactly squat in a scientific setting, of course even scientific studies in your opinion are worth squat) I know of a couple of children that have some anger issues.  They are parented well overall but the parents do not monitor the children's games/TV viewing.  One of the couples noticed the behavior and cut out the violent TV and video games.  The anger issues got MUCH better.

I know this is anecdotal evidence but when you expose yourself to negative feedback I 100% believe that it has the "potential" to affect you negatively.

And I also know my kids won't be going to play video games at your house

The really disturbing takeaway from this thread is that Gearboy and I are arguing the same side.  I hope everyone has their estates in order by Dec 22nd.

Or not...

I've highlighted what I think is the important part of my response. Look at it this way - if I eat a doughnut today, is that going to make me fat? How about if I decide to skip working out today? They each on their own play very little part in whether or not I can maintain a healthy weight, but if they become a pattern of behaviors, at some point, I will have a problem.

In a similar vein, studies tell us that screen time overall contributes to behavior issues. And that video games are realistic enough now to serve as "virtual reality" both to train people to react to situations as well as to desensitize them for treatment of anxiety disorders. To dismiss them altogether would be like saying doughnuts don't make people fat just because skinny people sometimes eat them.

ETA - and I'll second TriRSquared's concerns. It has been happening waaaay too much lately for my comfort!  

Yes you two need to cut that out; it is creeping me out a little.... I may need to play some video games to desensitize me to it before the anxiety overwhelms me and I have a crisis.

Exactly.
Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave!
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!