drewb8's group - FULL (Page 4)

it may stem from the fact? Good one.

Have fun in St. Louis - if you can get a workout or two in, great, if not, don't feel guilty. Hopefully you'll come back refreshed and ready to pick up where you left off.

It was subtle. Good eye!

Hey Amanda...have you tried spinning classes at your gym. They kind of have that group dynamic...if that's your thing. I love 'em. I like to go and make everyone else look weak...type A personality and all....hope you are doing well, we are all pulling for you....jeffd

I have tried spinning and I love it!! I'm afraid though that it would be too much...over training....whaddya think?

ps. I finally got my heart monitor...I LOVE being able to monitor my training with it.

pss. I have a cyst on my tailbone that is probably going to have to be removed in a few weeks...should make bike training fun.

psss. I have a devaited septum and may have to get it fixed as well.

All wonderful things, but I'm pretty excited to get all fixed up and able to breath better while training!!!

magella, I'm kinda figuring out there is a whole lot to the RPE thing, basically how you feel your effort is, and HR monitoring. Unless Drew disagrees, I wouldn't even worry about zone this or zone that for a little bit. Just get out and play; do a long slow run, do some more tempo-like work, take it to your new spin hobby (which makes you sort of a teacher's pet, my wife says) and start comparing what it says to how you'd rank your effort. I took mine swimming for awhile, check to see if you can, but then I pushed the buttons one too many times and had to take my watch apart to dry it out. Now it's a land watch, cuz I don't trust the seal anymore. But I digress, the bottom line is listen to your body. HRM's need batteries, hearts make their own; trust it first. Probably not just when training.

I hear ya. I've actually been training at the level where I can still carry on a conversation. When I run, when I bike, and when I swim. I find it VERY easy to do this when I swim and bike, but not when I run. I guess it's because I am just better at swimming and biking and really bite at the run. I keep telling myself to stick with it and it will get easier.

Whats the deal with the RPE?? I haven't done much research on it as of yet.

It's just another way of measuring your effort; I think it's Rate of Perceived Effort. Basically, "This feels like 2/5, 4/5, etc..."

Who do you conversate with when you swim?!?

hardy har har

A big part of training is learning to listen to your body. Its very eay to go out there and become a slave to your HRM, but its a very good idea to know how your heart rate corresponds to your RPE (rate of perceived effort - I posted a table, I think on the 1st page of this thread). Especially since there are so many variables that can affect both. Your HR and your effort are not going to be the same for the same speed day in and day out. Learning to distinguish this and how it relates to your body can be very useful for tracking your training.

I think Zach has some excellent advice to go out there with your heart rate monitor and start thinking about how it feels, what kind of effort you are giving for a given heart rate. I do think though that it would be useful to have a basic idea of your training zones. I don't think you are at the point where you need to do a full fledged LT test (just using the basic 220-age to get you LT will probably be ok for a little while), but I do think it is useful to know what it feels like to train in each zone, feel where changes in your breathing patterns occur and how that relates to your RPE and HR and training zone. I find that without my HRM it is very easy to go at a higher effort than you intend, especially while running. I am much better now at being able to relate my RPE to my HR

If you want to go out and experiment for a run or two that's fine, but if the training plan you are following now says to go out and do a z1-2 run, I wouldn't stray too far. If you go out and train all week in z3 for a sprint tri you are just wasting your workouts. One of the things you learn early on is that every workout you do should have a purpose - to build base, speed, muscle, endurance, etc., otherwise why are you doing it?

Rumors of my demise are only slightly exagerated. After a week of skiing (several bruised ribs later), a cold and a conference I had to attend this week, I'm ready to start my "serious" training for the year. With a half mary less than three months away I'm ready to start plugging away again. I'm going to start my serious training tomorrow. I haven't finished my swiming book yet but I have some great new ideas. Hopefully both my family and I are ready to make training one of my top priorities. You guys have all been doing a great job and thanks Drew for the advice.

P.S. Drew, the snow was great.

The classes I take you can control how hard you push by varying the resistance...I wear a HRM so I know where I am all the time and I try to do some interval stuff. I bring my HR up and then let it recover. I usually am in the 155-175 range, but to be honest I probably push too hard...I spend a lot of time out of the saddle. Also I listen to other music...the stuff they usually play sucks...if I ever hear "Sweet Home Alabama" again I will probably vomit...hope this helps....that thing on your tailbone doesn't sound good....sorry

Ok, another training quandary. I'm having a hard time believing the fact that by staying in the zone 1-2 I will be able to finish the tri in decent condition. My whole life I've trained to the point of exaustion, the whole no guts, no glory kind of stuff. Is it ok for me to be skeptical of this type of training? Is this typical of people new to the sport?

Also, I'm concerned with the actual training program I picked out. I opted for the sprint 3x balanced program. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=... In it, some nights I will run for as little as 12 minutes. Some nights I will swim for only 24 minutes. Will this be enough trainign for me? I'm concerned. Can anyone help allay my fears and concerns. Thanks guys!!!

no you definatly aren't the first to be wary. It seems very counterintuitive, but I'll do my best to explain it as I understand it. One way I have heard it explained is that its like a cake - endurance is the, um, cake part and speed is the icing. You can't ice the cake until you have a base (cake) to put it on, otherwise you just something tasty that gets used up quickly.

I talked about this a bit before but I'll try to distill it down. the tow main reson for training in z1-2 are

1) Build up you aerobic system and
2) Repeatability

When you are training in z1-2 you are teaching you body to use fat for fuel, a fuel it can burn aerobically (with oxygen). While doing this you also end up building more small capillaries in your muscles allowing them to get more oxygen and get rid of more waste (lactic acid). When you are going balls to the wall (at or above LT - lactate threshold) your body is burning fuel anaerobically and utilizing glycogen for fuel. The downside is that you are you teaching your body to use glycogen as your first choice for fuel (teaching your body that whenenever you exercise its very hard), but you also have only a limited supply of glycogen, only about 1 to 1-1/2 hours worth. Once that is used up you body doesn't switch to burning fat, it either starts using muscle for fuel or just stops - the dreaded "bonk".

The second reason is repeatability. If you can't do todays workout again tomorrow you went out too hard. If you go out trying to run a 5k pace every day for training your body will eventually break down and you will lose any benefits you worked up while you are sidelined with an injury. The harder you push yourself the longer it takes for your body to recover from the effort. If you are limiting the amount of training you can do by not being able to repeat it you are not going to get better as much as you would if you could train more (does that make sense?)

What you will finds starts to happen is that to start with you might run an 11:30/mile at a HR of 150. As you start building up base you will find that you are running 11:00/mile at a HR of 150, or that when you started you could run 11:30/mile at 150 for 20 minutes and now you can run 11:30/mile at 150 for 40 minutes. And that is the whole goal of building up your base. If you train all out and can run a 9 min mile for 2 miles it doesn't do you much good if the race is 3 miles. Until you have a solid base to build upon your speedwork should be fairly limited.

I should add that swimming is one area where it is ok to spend more time on speedwork - since it is non-impact your body recovers from it much faster.

Edited by drewb8 2007-02-09 4:23 PM

I used this plan for my 1st race and I remember having similar concerns. I think the key workouts to look at the week overall and the longer ones for the week. For the 1st week are you comfortable running for 20 minutes straight? The longest run duration for the plan is 39' which is longer than what you'll do in the race so by the end of the plan you shouldn't have any problem covering the distance needed for the race.

Here's what I would do. I would follow the plan, at least for the 1st couple of months. Running is very stressful on the body and it is better to under do it than over do it and end up injured. After a couple of months if you are feeling strong and like the runs you are doing aren't enough then you can reasses and might consider takcing some time on to you long runs. what you may consider doing is adding some tempo running into your short days - make them a little harder. maybe warm up for 5', run hard for 1', easy for a couple minutes, then hard again for 1' then easy for the rest. Something like that. For your two longer runs of the week I would not get out of z2 though. Remember, patience is a virtue.

Swimming on the other hand - since it's no-impact, if you feel like swimming more than go ahead, just make sure it isn't affecting your other workouts. Happy training, I'm sure you'll do great!





Edited by drewb8 2007-02-09 5:03 PM

Some negative split info. Its not something you need to do every run but its a good skill to have.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=...

Its possible to use your HRM to do this too if you have trouble estimating your pace outside. I usually have one run a week where I will do the 1st 1/2 in z1 (about 30 beats below LT) and then for the 2nd 1/2 run at a pace about 5-10 beats faster.

Thanks so much for all the info drew!! I definetly feel much better. I especially love the cake analogy :-)

Drew did you just use your run LT to find your bike?

If I use my zones from the run, am I pushing too hard on the bike?

I'm having a little trouble understanding why LTs differ for the two events. I guess just because the muscle groups are different?

No, you really should do a seperate LT test for the bike. Generally your bike LT will be about 10-15 beats lower than your run. Like you said, different muscle groups, and since the bike it supporting alot of your weight, not as many muscle groups.

The protocol is much the same as a run LT test. If you can get outside and have a 10 mile stretch where you can just go all out without stopping do it there - push the hardest pace you can maintain for that 10 miles. If all you have is a spinning bike I would imagine it would be close to using a trainer so you can go at the hardest pace you can maintain for 30' and take the average of the last 20'. Once you are able to get outside and on a real bike though I would re-do it for that. Have fun!

So how did everyones week go? I missed out on my long run on minday but otherwise it went well for me. Long ride this weekend and maybe some skiing or snowshoeing, then back at it next week. Hope you guys have a good long weekend!

Geez,

I leave for a week and there's a flurry of activity!! You guys have been busy! (Oh, and Zach, I hated botany too - I'm in horticulture which is way more fun. But the difference is pretty minor, I know)..

The conference was good, wedding was fantastic. It was like a week of parties, seeing relatives I didn't think I'd see again until Christmas, blah blah blah.. and it was the first of four girls getting hitched, so even more fun (as the second youngest, she went out of order, but whatever.)..

I just have to tell you guys to keep it up -- a month and a half of training got me comments like 'OMG, you've lost weight!' and 'Holy cow you're skinny!' from the minute I walked in the door. I have to say the best one came from the bride herself - 'Don't you have any jeans that fit you?!!' Talk about motivating! I personally don't see a difference, but can feel one.. but if other people can see it - that's alright by me! And if they think a seven pound loss is good, just wait until they see what I expect by July!

Sorry, I'm rambling on about myself. My point is, if my peeps can tell there's a difference, I'm sure you guys are experiencing the same thing. KEEP IT UP!!!!

Edited by greys34 2007-02-20 9:48 AM

Ok, I feel like it's been forever!! I've been pretty busy with work so around on BT has been low on the priority list these days.

I had a rough week last trying to train. Between work commitments, lecture commitments (I speak at recovery houses and rehab centers) and the ice storm we had, I barely got to train last week. I was super bummed and feeling pretty down. Thankfully, this week I'm back on track. I guess it worked out well to have a 'recovery' week even though it wasn't planned.

I am starting to be able to feel the difference already by not smoking. My running is improving and I am loving the bike. Running however sucks when my shins start pulsating. So I've been trying to stretch extra well after my runs.

I also began my strength training which I will so on the days I only train one sport.

Drew, I had a question about time trials. What are they and how do u do them? I would like to learn a little more about them and if it would help me with my training program.

I don't know their usefulness, so I won't expand much and leave that to Drew, but my perception is that a TT is either 1. how far you can go in time X, or more often, 2. how quickly you can cover distance X. I plan on doing a bike TT soon to try to find out my bike lactate threshold. My HR screams whenever I'm on the bike, so I wonder if my run and bike LT's are closer than normal. Or I'm just really that bad at cycling right now...


I've got a question for you as well Drew: many of the programs here state that you'll likely train "over-distance" if you just do the time plans. Should I approach training any differently if that is the case in the second week? On some days, I'm already doing the distances I plan to race at at least early in the summer. I realize doing them sequentially changes things considerably, but if finishing doesn't seem iffy, is it too type-A to think about more intensity? I've put some into my run one day a week, but haven't in the swim, and just got back in the bike saddle, so none there yet.

Even though it's quiet around here, hope everyone's plans/goals/training is going well!

Hmm. If you are thinking about an actual time trial, then it is just like Zach said - your best time over a given distance or your best distance over a given time. Some people use races as time trials. There are two main reasons I can think of to do them periodically (every 4-6 weeks) since they aren't all that fun. One is to find out your LT (lactate threshold) so you can determine your heart rate training zones (or in the case of swimming, your T-pace). The other is to assess your fitness gains. The whole point of training is to get better so if you find that you aren't improving you might want to reshape your training. As far as actually doing them I'm afraid you need to be more specific - what exactly does the plan say?

I think it depends on the sport. If you are already at distance with swimming and you want to add in more intensity then go ahead. I think they say up to 50% of you time swimming can be hard if you want. For running and biking though I would still stick to only one day a week where you throw in some harder efforts. once you get closer to the race (starting at 4-6 weeks out) then you would start adding in more speedwork. There is no reason why you can't just keep increasing your distance by 10% every week though. In fact that's what i would do and don't worry about how much over distnace froma sprint you get. That 3 miles will just seem that much shorter. Or you could look aruond for an Oly to do, that might be another good option.

Hey folks!

So we're now about 2 months into the year. All the early excitement has (probably) faded a bit and we get to see how well you've done turning training into a habit. I'm noticing the days getting longer and even a little warmer. For me this is the hardest part of the year because the slacking of winter is over but spring & the fun part of training of being outside with everyone else hasn't quite arrived yet.

It looks to me like everyone has done a great job of staying consistent (with one exception effJay, although it looks like he might be back) and hopefully this is around the time when you start to see the first nuggets of progress popping up. Keep on keepin' on!