Drafting in the Olympics (Page 4)

I thought it was a great race and very exciting.  However, it was a foot race and due to the format, that wasn't a surprise. 

At a race I did this past weekend, another athlete swam and biked a little faster than me and my transitions and run were a little faster so we were about 200m from the line shoulder to shoulder.  We sprinted out the finish and he passed me with about 10' to go; did this become a foot race due to the race format (typical non-drafting) or the fact that we are pretty evenly matched and the run comes last?

Shane

What is drafting?

I know, I know, stupid question....

Not stupid at all; drafting is when (in triathlon) you ride within another rider's draft zone which is basically three bike lengths long.  Although there is still a benefit outside this zone, inside this area the trailing rider can ride at the same speed for less effort than normal as the lead rider is breaking the wind.

Most triathlons do not allow drafting but the ITU elite races allow athletes to ride in a pack (a la le Tour de France).

Shane

I think its fine the way it is. I'm just saying a TT would be interesting as well, more so than ITU.

I enjoy watching both types of race.

 The (slight) problem I have with ITU races lies in the fact that you can intentionally adopt a "just hang on" attitude for 2/3 of the race and still win. 

For an ITU race, when a good runner is training for the bike, his or her goal does not have to be "become the best possible cyclist."  It is sufficient (much of the time) for the goal to be "become good enough at cycling to hang with the lead pack throughout the ride."  Obviously this is still a very difficult goal, but "just hang on" somehow seems intuitively less worthy than "go as fast as I can."

In a non-drafting race, if you want to "just hang on" to a good rider, you simply have to be able to go as fast as them.  In a draft-legal race, you have to go as fast as them, minus the effect of drafting.

Your plan over the 3 legs can be HANG ON > HANG ON > RACE instead of RACE > RACE > RACE, and although it still makes for an exciting race, I find it hard to get past that.

 Not demeaning the athletic prowess of ITU triathletes and not saying it's not extremely difficult to hang on over a swim and a bike (nice one Bevan D) - just pointing out something about how it comes across to me.

And perhaps he didn't run so fast because he was a bit tired from the swim and bike--oh, I forgot, they don't matter because they were tied when they started the foot race. 

The analogy only goes so far, I admit.  But my point was that even if two teams are tied after 58 minutes of play and "it all comes down to the last 2 minutes" (as some TV announcer would surely remind us), those first 58 still matter in deciding the outcome.  Perhaps someone got hurt or ejected or TIRED. 

Had it been a draft legal race, would you not have grapped his(or another person's) wheel when he(they) went by? 

Explain to me why this is SO different than Macca at Kona.  Or, frankly, Stadler at Kona.  By your analogy:

Macca = HANG ON > HANG ON > RACE

and

Stadler = HANG ON > RACE > HANG ON

You do realize there's drafting benefits in "regular" triathlons, just less than in ITU.  And the swim is the same rules, only it's LESS important than in ITU.  So ITU may take some 'value' off the bike, but it also adds some to the swim.  It's still a triathlon and not a simple foot race.

I've beaten this enough, so this'll be my last whack. 

Not following you here...  Just becuase ONE of the "fast runners" doesn't win on ONE particular day, doesn't mean the "fastest runners" don't have an advantage. 

Yes in fact for every reply I get on this thread I get a check

It is ok to dislike the format that is not an issue; however I find amusing the critic of the format when some seem to don't clearly understand the level of talent and skill it is requires just to 'hang on' the back of the pack.

Many of the bike courses at ITU races have some level of difficulty because of the format (loops) and this produces constant changes in pace. Anyone who has done some group riding in which there are constant attacks would know that this 'kills' the legs. in the ITU format triathletes accomplish this after just swimming a 1.5k in 18 min, just cruising at 25+ mph and the just running a 10K in 30-31min. I think many would change their opinion in terms of the difficulty if given the opportunity to race and ITU style race. And by racing I mean going all out from start to finish, not just floating the swim, cruising the bike just to put some effort on the run. Otherwise THAT would be a glorified run

Anyway, was Kona last year a glorified run? I ask because the strong cyclists (Lieto and Sindballe) took charge yet they felt short on their efforts while Macca and Crowie rode on the pack (legally) and just conserve energy to strike on the run and well they did! Was that luck or strategy?

The difference is, at least to me, is that the "hang on" is on the back wheel of someone else.  In non-draft, its just you and you alone, doing the hanging on. 

Sorry this is your last word, its been a good conversation.

I lied. 

Actually, just to clarify, there are drafting benefits on the bike in a regular triathlon (and it's not insignificant even if it's less than ITU-style drafting). 

Again, a different format is sure to shuffle the ranks as you'll change the dynamics of the race.  I don't think an ITT format would be very compelling, or fair (start position does matter, conditions change, etc.).  But that's just my opinion.

Yes that's exactly what I meant.  I guess you could call it "hanging tough" (on your own) vs real "hanging on" (depending on others at least in a small way).

I'm not even sure if that's a signifcant difference - just explaining what it is about ITU tris that nags at the back of my mind.

Of course you're right on the swim (JohnnyKay) - I missed that.  Edit - and I'll give you a little on the bike.

Good on you!

Again, I haven't seen where people dimish the level of talent of these guys, they just don't like the format.  What would make you happy?  Should people start saying these guys are awesome, the best, etc, etc before every "critic"?

Dude, again, we get it.  Its hard and these guys are awesome, the best!  Spend the check wisely. 

Luck or strategy?  Maybe both.  But had Kona been draft legal,  Macca and Crowie would have kept things a little tighter wouldn't you think? 

However, since he was out of the water with three others and I was alone, I probably wouldn't have caught him unless another pack caught up with me...

One Word: Burritos...perferably heavy on the refried beans.  Buoyancy in the water, keeps the backdraft area all clear on the bike, and and makes you step lively to the finish/porta-john on the run.  You can even get Old El Paso to sponsor you. 

You said that the OLY example ended the debate.  It does not as I stated. 

But since you want to add another race to the "debate" then fine.  The '07 winner, Henning, had the 5th fastest 40k of the race, The runners with the 1st and 2nd fastest runs came in 2nd and 3rd respectively.  I wouldn't say the 5th(of 53) fastest run split is one of the "slower runners" would you?

Not much of an example where the "stronger" runner(S)" don't come out on top. 

As far as examples go.  Why don't you give me the statistical analysis of all ITU races instead of cherry picking a few events.  Or how about an example where a winner ran out side the top 15~20% run times. 

BTW, how did Reed do against Kemper in the OLY? 

I guess I can't stay away. 

I don't really want to get into this "show me" argument (again, I think it misses the point entirely), but...

show me ANY triathlon where the winner runs outside the top 15-20% of run times!  It may have happened, but I'd be impressed (or perhaps not, since the rest of the field would seemingly have had to have been pretty poor swimmers & bikers)!