You all do base work too slow!!!!!!! (Page 4)

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2009-01-16 11:13 AM
in reply to: #1911047

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Subject: RE: You all do base work too slow!!!!!!!
bryancd - 2009-01-15 10:02 PM

ChrisM - 2009-01-15 6:18 PM

bryancd - 2009-01-15 4:12 PM I look at this thread like a P.S.A. for solid IM athletes who use 'Base" as an excuse to slack off and still convince themselves they are training. I see that a lot. Denial is not a river in Egypt.

I'm sorry, I just can't take you seriously with that avatar, I keep trying to read what you write but my eyes are curiously drawn to the left.  Then I start wondering what's on the bridge screen causing him so much surprise.  Klingons??  Green skin lady???

Scuse me, I gots to go swim some base yardage tonight



LOL Chris! It's a screen capture from the classic original series episode "Turnabout Intruder" when Kirk switches bodies with an angry woman named Janice Lester. I laugh evertime I look at it too, you gotta love The Shat!


Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd now we know why triathletes are call FIT NERDS


2009-01-16 11:22 AM
in reply to: #1911556

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Subject: RE: You all do base work too slow!!!!!!!
JorgeM - 2009-01-16 6:00 AM
ChrisM - 2009-01-15 2:36 PM

Have you? no idea. 

However, the idea that one training style is the best for every individual has been suggested, at the very least, if not outright stated.  I think that is unreasonable.  If you posted that, then the answer is yes.  If you didn't, the answer is no.

But I am no coach, so please feel free to rip that opinion apart.

The way I interpret this thread is exactly to debate why believing the ‘one size fits all’ approach for tri training can be misleading.

So here's the conundrum.  "One size does not fit all."  I agree. 

The title of this thread is "you go too slow."  How do you sqyare that with your philosophy?  How is the philosophy that "you should train faster" any different than the one that says "you should go Z1"?  They are both blanket statements that do not take into account circumstances that may make one, or both of them, inapplicable 

Perhaps, for certain people, going slower rather than going faster allows them to put in more consistent miles without getting hurt.  I believe Fred posted that.  Maybe they don't get as fast as they would if they trained faster......  but they sure get faster than they would sitting out with an injury.  That is the point of my post.  To make a blanket statement that going slower is always a "bad thing" without any conrtext, to a bunch of non-Kona qualifying AGers, makes no sense.

Now, if your goal is to Kona qualify?  have at it.

ETA - I know bryan's "you should" statement was to stir the pot a bit, but come on, we all know bryan, and we all know he believes it.

I am not advocating one position over the other.   I am just in this for the post ride coffee. 



Edited by ChrisM 2009-01-16 11:23 AM
2009-01-16 1:21 PM
in reply to: #1912206

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Subject: RE: You all do base work too slow!!!!!!!
Well, I did title the thread, Jorge didn't. And I know and acknowledge I was generalizing to get things cooking and I did QUALIFY my comments that I am really addressing this to people with experience who are looking to be competetive at Ironman. And yes, I do believe it but that doesn't make me right, it makes me right for my circumstance...and a few others..
2009-01-16 1:42 PM
in reply to: #1912582

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Subject: RE: You all do base work too slow!!!!!!!

bryancd - 2009-01-16 11:21 AM Well, I did title the thread, Jorge didn't. And I know and acknowledge I was generalizing to get things cooking and I did QUALIFY my comments that I am really addressing this to people with experience who are looking to be competetive at Ironman. And yes, I do believe it but that doesn't make me right, it makes me right for my circumstance...and a few others..

We all know what you really wanted to say:  "I am faster than all of you."  And it ain't bragging if it's true.

2009-01-16 2:07 PM
in reply to: #1912661

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Subject: RE: You all do base work too slow!!!!!!!
LOL! No, it really isn't that. I started a similar thread last year, so it's perennial.

I hear a lot of talk, discussed on tri related podcasts, read on forums and blogs, a lot about the really low intensity training people do during a base period and I think for someone new or prone to injury, it's a good protocol. To be more competetive and a world where we have limited time, I think a training session should be training and it's likely to feel a bit uncomfortable. That doesn't include recovery or stuff you just do for fun during an off season. That's all good. I'm talking about base training done at intensities which, for the kind of athlete I am addressing this towards, provide very little benefit and I am challenging that thinking.
2009-01-16 2:21 PM
in reply to: #1905597

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Subject: RE: You all do base work too slow!!!!!!!
Then your opinion and my HRM will make a very happy couple this weekend as I drag my fat arse up some hills


2009-01-16 6:58 PM
in reply to: #1912582

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Subject: RE: You all do base work too slow!!!!!!!
bryancd - 2009-01-16 2:21 PM

Well, I did title the thread, Jorge didn't. And I know and acknowledge I was generalizing to get things cooking and I did QUALIFY my comments that I am really addressing this to people with experience who are looking to be competetive at Ironman. And yes, I do believe it but that doesn't make me right, it makes me right for my circumstance...and a few others..


Link please to where you qualified your comments that I am really addressing this to people with experience who are looking to be competetive at Ironman.
2009-01-16 8:21 PM
in reply to: #1913195

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Subject: RE: You all do base work too slow!!!!!!!
RBRMIKE - 2009-01-16 6:58 PM

bryancd - 2009-01-16 2:21 PM

Well, I did title the thread, Jorge didn't. And I know and acknowledge I was generalizing to get things cooking and I did QUALIFY my comments that I am really addressing this to people with experience who are looking to be competetive at Ironman. And yes, I do believe it but that doesn't make me right, it makes me right for my circumstance...and a few others..


Link please to where you qualified your comments that I am really addressing this to people with experience who are looking to be competetive at Ironman.


"Also note I am addressing this to more experienced athletes who have been in the game a while and have a few solid seasons under their belt." Post#1906433

"I am a big advocate of Zone 3 work for IM for anyone who wants to be very competetive. If you can make Zone 3 a level of intensity you can hold for the duration of an IM, you should be going pretty quick. This is why I started this thread, to have this discussion, which has been so expertly summarized by Jorge above." Post#1907051

"And I know and acknowledge I was generalizing to get things cooking and I did QUALIFY my comments that I am really addressing this to people with experience who are looking to be competetive at Ironman." Post(#1912582

"To be more competetive and a world where we have limited time, I think a training session should be training and it's likely to feel a bit uncomfortable. That doesn't include recovery or stuff you just do for fun during an off season. That's all good. I'm talking about base training done at intensities which, for the kind of athlete I am addressing this towards, provide very little benefit and I am challenging that thinking." Post#1912721

..and that was in this thread alone. Try reading the thread first before wasting my time, I have a lot of Star Trek to watch...

Edited by bryancd 2009-01-16 8:34 PM
2009-01-16 9:01 PM
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2009-01-19 3:23 PM
in reply to: #1907087

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Subject: RE: You all do base work too slow!!!!!!!
stchase34 - 2009-01-14 12:26 PM

  • ..he has you mostly in Zone 2 which is 75-85% of your max....


    • I thought Zone 2 was 65-70%....I'm guessing there are different definitions.

    Can anyone source the "approved" Zone percentages of Max?

    thanks....great thread.

    Dave
    2009-01-19 4:16 PM
    in reply to: #1916719

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    Subject: RE: You all do base work too slow!!!!!!!

    dpeeples - 2009-01-19 4:23 PM
    stchase34 - 2009-01-14 12:26 PM ...he has you mostly in Zone 2 which is 75-85% of your max....
    I thought Zone 2 was 65-70%....I'm guessing there are different definitions. Can anyone source the "approved" Zone percentages of Max? thanks....great thread. Dave

    Great point, I know on training peaks there is 4 or 5 different ways to calculate zones by different peoples scales.

    Maybe Jorge or someone could jump in and give more clarification on zones. I have seen 4 zone scales, 5 and even 7 or 8. Why can't this just be universal Yell

    2009-01-19 5:02 PM
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    Subject: RE: You all do base work too slow!!!!!!!
    Actually, this is the whole problem with HR training, all the protocols are different! For me, at the end of the day, I focus less on Zones as percentages of max HR or even those I go from VO2 testing. Instead I break Zones into various race pace efforts, Ironman, Half IM, Olympic, open Marathon, ect.

    And again, when I say, tongue somehwat implanted in cheek, you are all training base too slow, it's less zone based, more a challenge to the concept that SUPER easy training has any real benefit besides just "getting out there".

    Edited by bryancd 2009-01-19 5:04 PM
    2009-01-22 10:39 PM
    in reply to: #1916907

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    Subject: RE: You all do base work too slow!!!!!!!

    i'm so phat, when i wash myself with a rag on a stick, im in zone one.

    CP2K

    2009-01-23 1:39 PM
    in reply to: #1905597

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    Subject: RE: You all do base work too slow!!!!!!!
    So your telling me Mark Allens advise on low heart rate training in the first couple months of the year is wrong? I think its very very important to build your aerobic base before you start grinding away Feb 1st. I mean if you want to build the house without a concrete base its your choice to do so, but I feel confident saying that even the pros are not out killing it right now (Although I could be wrong)
    2009-01-23 4:31 PM
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    Subject: RE: You all do base work too slow!!!!!!!
    KeepOnTriN - 2009-01-23 1:39 PM

    So your telling me Mark Allens advise on low heart rate training in the first couple months of the year is wrong? I think its very very important to build your aerobic base before you start grinding away Feb 1st. I mean if you want to build the house without a concrete base its your choice to do so, but I feel confident saying that even the pros are not out killing it right now (Although I could be wrong)


    Consider joining the discussion after reading the thru the thread.
    2009-01-23 7:19 PM
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