Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group CLOSED! (Page 4)

I feel like my interval training on the bike is half hazard.  

Welcom Joe

I'm not meaning to pick on you here, but can you give us a little more background on your running.  Moving from 15 mpw to 30-35 mpw is a pretty big jump and sort of brought up a reg flag in my eyes.  Some people with prior running backgrounds may be able to get away with it, but it just caught my eye and was wondering if you wanted to discuss your approach to increasing run volume/fitness.

ETA: I'm sorry, I reread your post and noticed you were working on getting towards 32-35 mpw over 10-12 weeks.  That's definately doable, but it may be a good topic of conversation for the group on the some of the ways to go about this.  I know Fred and I are fans of the BarryP 3-2-1 approach.

Welcome Leon.

What type of interval training are you doing now?  Outdoors?  Trainer?

There are two main keys that I find useful for working hard on the bike. 

1.  Group rides with stronger riders.  There is nothing more motivating than simply trying to hang on to the group.

2.  Intervals with some sort of metric.  This could be power, virtual power, HR, strava segments, or just a plain old stop watch. 

After that...it's 90% mental.  Just know that if you're struggling with intervals...you're supposed to.  They're HARD.  Doesn't matter if you're a newbie or a pro...intervals are designed to turn yourself inside out and make you want to quit early.  It's just a matter of if you give in or not.

Hey Jason,

My plan is to increase by about 2 miles per week until I reach my goal, and yeah keep it at or near a 1:2:3 ratio.  So mapping it out: this week I'm (by Tue/Wed/Thur/Sat) 4/2/4/6, next week I'll probably go 5/2/4/7, then 5/2/5/8, then 5/3/6/8, then 6/3/6/9, then 6/3/7/10, then 7/4/7/10, then 8/4/7/11, then 8/4/8/12.  That's 9 weeks including this week, and I'm assuming life will get in the way during one of those weeks so I'll have a recovery week thrown in, making it 10.

ETA: 8/4/8/12 is 32, and I'd like to go over the 13.1 once or twice before the HIM, so between reaching 32 and actual race day I intend to have one or two long runs of 14.  I could either just keep the rest of the week normal during that week, or to make for adding two miles to long day I could take two miles away from another day.

With all the gear I've purchased, I think I'm living out this mid-life crisis in the most expensive possible way!

I absolutely loved my first half. I'm not a strong swimmer, and I've historically finished in the bottom 1/3 on the swim leg, but i finished almost exactly at 50% after training myswim pretty hard the past six months. I kind of liked the chaos of the mass start and seeing bodies all around on every stroke. But I was very grateful that I went the day before and swam in the lake ahead of time. I have little OWS experience and (as with my first OWS race) I got a little anxious in the water the first 100m or so--not stroking right, not breathing right--just kinda flailing through the water. But then I settled into a good rhythm and was fine. During the race, I didn't experience that at all.

I didn't know what kind of time to expect on the bike course because I train with a power meter, I've been indoors almost all winter, and the course was going to include a lot of firsts: first really hilly ride, first ride with the my race wheels (sub9 disc in the back and nimble crosswind tri-spoke in the front), first ride with an aero helmet, first race intensity ride at this distance, etc.....I finished about top 5% on the bike, which was awesome, and my power was close to where I wanted to be (averaged 189 watts; goal of 180-185).

I blew up on the run (which started out with about 5 miles uphill), but I think it was a nutritional problem--I didn't eat the way I had trained/planned. I was still top 1/6 in run time, but I was 15-20 minutes slower than my goal.

Some things I learned:

I need to get in more OWS and get more comfortable with that aspect.

I need to be more consistent with my nutrition--race what I practice (and practice what I intend to race).

I need more "long" days. Due to time constraints, my long bike rides are rarely over 40 miles. Even though stomach issues were my main limiter on the run, my legs were a little more tired than I had anticipated. I'm generally a strong runner, but it didn't show in my last race. I don't have time right now, but sometime I'll ask for input on heart-rate training for running as I look for ways to build my run strength.

I'm going to be fairly blunt in saying this, but unless you already have prior experience running 30-35 mpw consistantly in the past, this seems rather risky.  I would not recommend increasing 2 miles every week for 10 weeks if you're constantly hitting mileages that you've never run before.  If you have run 30-35 miles before in past training, then I'd be more on board with you, but I'd also recommend that you spread your mileage out over more days. 

Running improvements take a lot of patience and time.  And running injuries can be season enders.  Just be careful, listen to your body, and check your ego in at the door.  This applies to all running plans.

One of the reasons I love this sport is it allows me to game plan, evaluate, and make adjustments to my training.  I make my own training plans and I'm always making tweaks here and there based on how things are going.  I know what it's like to set up plans that are aggressive, but later realize it was not such a great idea.  The key is to be flexible if things don't quite work out (not saying that your plan won't work for your).  Best of luck.

Joe - You're on the right track if you can be flexible.  I always write up my plans initially with "best case scenario" thinking.  Just know that running injuries tend to fester themselves about 2-3 weeks before they actually pop up.  So being on the cautious side never hurts.

There's a general saying that goes..."You keep running more and more until you get injured, then you back off, adjust, and repeat till you get injured again."  It's somewhat of a joke, but it's actually pretty true.  Basically saying that we will never know what is too much until we get injured and figure it out for ourselves.   And it will likely take a lot of trial and error and experimentation to find out what our limits are.

The key though is identifying the signs of injury early so we can make those changes early on before injuries become worse.  A conservative approach helps this process.

Jason: So then my question would be, how much and how often?

Currently, TR 2 times a week, and that is basically my interval training for now.

One longerish ride of 2 hours on weekends, on a somewhat hilly course. (I'm not sure if the hills help  with speed or not)

Name: Philothea0806/ Stacie

Location: Bryan, Texas


Story: Never really thought I would get into triathlons.  I started running last year when I was trying to lose weight and was enjoying what little I could do, then I noticed my right foot was bothering me.  Went to the doctor and after x-rays and MRI was diagnosed with sesmoiditis. Told to take it easy and no running, but I could swim and bike (stationary).  Never got better, ended up in a walking boot all last summer and while it is a little better it can still flare up so surgery was my last option and lay off the running. So I figured that since I was already swimming and biking if I added some running then I would be able to manage. So triathlon’s seemed to make sense.  I was an archer in college (including a summer at the Olympic Training center in Chula Vista, CA.)

Just finished my first super sprint and I enjoyed it. Still learning about the sport but it is something new each day, which I like. I want to built up to 2x’s day workouts (which I do some days now) but I know I am prone to overtrain, so finding the balance will be the hardest part.

Not training related, I have a full time job and also what I call a ‘microfarm’ (large garden, chickens and meat rabbits) and I sell at the local Farmer’s Market on Saturday mornings (only
leaves Sunday mornings for long rides in the summer – too hot in this part of Texas in the afternoon.) I figure short rides will have to be before work.

Family Status: Single, family is in CA and NV.

2013 races: (? = not sure)

Armadillo Dash 5k – March 3 (81/110 AG)

Girls just wanna have fun 5k – March 23 (19/27 AG – not all chip timed)

Bucket list tri (super sprint/pool) April 28 – 12/29 in AG as first tri (1/29
in bike split)

Trigirl (Super Sprint/OWS) – May 12

? Tejas Tri  (sprint/OWS)– June 2

? Freedom Tri (sprint/pool) – June 30

Tri Aggieland (sprint/pool)– July 14

Tri Rock Austin (olympic) – Sept 2

10k race – Sept 28^th

Austin 70.3 – October 27

Five and Dime (10 mile) – Nov 2

Santa’s Wonderland 5k – TBD (nov)

Turkey trot 5K – Nov 28

BCS Half Marathon – Dec 8

Weight Loss:  Tyring to get 15 lbs off.  I lost 85 lbs in 2012 and this is the last 15
lbs to make it an even 100. Plus it would help my running a lot.

Current Training:  Just finished a
12 week sprint training program and seemed to pull a hamstring this past Sunday
(not during my tri but later in the afternoon mowing the lawn!) so I am taking
it easy till my next super sprint (May 12^th) and will look over
different plans in the next few weeks.

My weakest area is running (Avg on a good day is 10min/mile)
mainly due to the foot issue limiting training. I don’t run two days in a row.

My other weak area is swimming and that is mainly due to form issues (currently
taking swimming lessons) and bursitis in my left shoulder that I have to be
careful not to aggravate.

My strongest sport would be the bike (1^st in my AG in my first tri
and 3^rd in all females). I have a tri bike that I got off Craigslist and I just got a trainer (Cycle Ops fluid) so if the weather is really bad I can still train.

I have never been in a mentor group and with all my issues I figure
I can use all the help I can get!

This is really good stuff!  I think the suggestion of increasing mileage by spreading it out over more runs (5 if you can, 6 is even better) is a great way to do it.  I can sound a bit daunting at first to run that often but once you do it, it is great and very effective.  You can and should just make those extra days really short (I started at 15-20 mins) and really easy.

I agree that two TR sessions and a longish ride is a pretty good plan for most people.  The key then becomes maximizing those rides with proper intensity.  TR is a great tool for tracking your workout with virtual power and also comparing how you did on previous workouts. 

Again...don't be afraid to push yourself.  Your body and mind will scream no...that's normal. 

If you still have a spot open I'd love to join your group. My bio is:

Name: Steve Elmshaeuser

Self Employed - attorney

My story: I got married in 2010 and weighed approximately 275. My wife and I both started getting healthy by cleaner eating and calorie counting. I am down to around 202 now with about 15 more pounds to go to get to my ideal weight. I started running to lose weight after hitting a plateau and just kept going. Then I tried a triathlon and I was hooked.

My "A" race for the year is Ironman Boulder 70.3 in August. I have not done a half ironman before so the distance is the first challenge as well as the altitude. Last year I ran 3 marathons as well as a lot of 5k and 10k races. This year I've done 1 10k, 4 5k and a half marathon, did one indoor triathlon and just finished the O'Rourke Memorial sprint triathlon. I have the Colfax marathon in 2 weeks in Denver and then Bolder Boulder 10k on Memorial day. My wife had a partial knee replacement in December and is feeling so good we are both doing the BRAN (Bike Ride Across Nebraska) the first week of June. Then I have an Olympic triathlon on July 13 as a training run for Boulder August 4.

My biggest weakness is swimming. I'm not fast but can swim the entire 1.2 miles in under an hour without stopping. I'm working on my technique whenever I can get to a pool, since the closest indoor pool is 75 miles away. Once summer gets here in Nebraska I'll be hitting the outdoor pool as often as possible, at least 5 days a week to make up for the lack of swimming now.

My goal race is Beach to Battleship full distance in 2014. I had looked at trying to do the HITS Palm Springs full in December but I don't think I am ready for that right now.

Steve