JohnnyKay and Fred Doucette's HIM/IM focused Mentor group-CLOSED (Page 44)

bryancd - 2011-05-24 2:58 PM Creepy log stalker... Yes, I ride pretty much 100% of my rides at around 85-88% of my bike LT based on HR as I don't have a PM, but you get the general idea. Bike LT is in the low 160's bpm's. So long rides or a 90min weeday ride will be done at that effort ot higher if it's a tempo/interval day. In general I am a big proponent of riding at IM effort or better all the time as opposed to really low effort rides.

I like the instensity of your rides and the idea of riding at or above IM effort at all times. Since this is the way that you ride do you skip rides if your tired for the day or do you just slog through it? Or do you have the ability to recover fast from such hard effort rides?

I have found in the past and plan on it again this year to do any interval ride that is less then 90 minutes on the trainer. Especially now that I have moved and live in an area with minimal roads that are "flatter". I feel that riding on a trainer you can control your HR better, not deal with wind, or major elevation changes, stop signs, etc. I guess many pro's as well are switching to trainer rides too, Andy Potts says he rides mostly on the trainer now. The only problem with this for me is that we have winter for so long here in Wisconsin that once it's nice out it's really hard to set the trainer up again until its freezing again.

chasingkona - 2011-05-25 9:07 AM

bryancd - 2011-05-24 2:58 PM Creepy log stalker... Yes, I ride pretty much 100% of my rides at around 85-88% of my bike LT based on HR as I don't have a PM, but you get the general idea. Bike LT is in the low 160's bpm's. So long rides or a 90min weeday ride will be done at that effort ot higher if it's a tempo/interval day. In general I am a big proponent of riding at IM effort or better all the time as opposed to really low effort rides.

I like the instensity of your rides and tahe idea of riding at or above IM effort at all times. Since this is the way that you ride do you skip rides if your tired for the day or do you just slog through it? Or do you have the ability to recover fast from such hard effort rides?

IM intensity really isn't all that hard.  It's just not 'easy spinning'.  Think about it.  If you you are riding at an effort level that should allow you to get off the bike after 4-7hrs and run a marathon, the effort on the bike can't be too high.  Once you have a reasonable amount of bike fitness, you should pretty much be able to ride IM effort day after day after day...

One thing to note.  Since Bryan is getting off his bike faster than most athletes, his IM effort is actually somewhat higher than many people's.  There's an advantage to being faster in that you can push a little bit harder (relatively to your threshold) and still have enough energy to run well.

For example, while he desn't use a PM, I would hazard a guess that his intensity is near 75% for IM.  Mine is closer to 70%.  So when Bryan says he is riding at IM effort or better, he's already pushing into the lower end of many people's HIM effort.  That's what they would have to target to be doing the same amouint of work as he is.  If they targeted their own IM effort, they would be doing less work.

Hope that all made sense and helps some.

I never thought of it this way, but it makes great sense. Another reason why the better you are on your bike the better you can run off and to your potential.

What is the formula for conducting your TSS?

TSS = duration (in hours) * IF^2 * 100

It's simply a normalized score that gives a measure of training stress.  So, theoretically, a 5hr ride at 70% would be 'equal' in training stress to a 3hr ride at 90%.  It combines duration and intensity so you can have a better measure of total training load.

Fred Doucette - 2011-05-25 8:54 AM

bryancd - 2011-05-25 9:49 AM

Fred Doucette - 2011-05-25 7:45 AM

Good thread:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=253630&posts=33#M3517632

Feel free to chime in Bryan, for that fact everyone.

My comments are on page 1. I haven't continued as the conversation has been focusing on power and I have no context to put it in rgearding my own training/racing. But it's very interesting!

It has relevance for pacing as a % of HR/LT etc.

That is a great thread and it the estimated/predicted finish time goal is the million dollar question for all of us.  It seems Nate is making a pretty solid goal for himself to finish in 4:30.  I do think it is aggressive based on his training, but that is the whole purpose of having something to accomplish.  I really think his biggest obstacle will be conditions and whatever weirdness may present itself on race day.  What we also don't know are his training conditions versus the terrain of the course.  In other words is he training in the hills and this course is incredibly flat?  If that's the case, my money now leans more towards him accomplishing that goal.  From my perspective it seems like he will be pretty darn close regardless and the deciding factor will be conditions on race day.  Go Nate!

Very interesting thread.  I've also tried to crunch as many numbers as I could based on my estimated FTP, other race results, training, etc.  But I have recently given up.  I have no experience with the HIM distance, and furthermore, I have no experience racing past 9am.  Lump in the fact that while I do train on Oahu...Oahu is nothing compared to Kona as far as heat...not even close...and Oahu tri courses are all flat...like Florida flat.

I've come to realize that the HIM distance is more about managing effort for me.  For races like 5ks, 10ks, or even sprints...I think it's great to have time goals...so you can use those goals as a carrot during your race to help push your body beyond it's comfort levels.  I don't think that applies nearly as much for a HIM distance where the "blow up" factor is huge.  If you pace a 5k, 10k, or sprint tri too hard...you just jog to the finish...no big deal.  Not so much in a HIM I presume.

I plan to just go by effort and my time is what it is.  At the end of the race, I'll look back and see if I managed my effort properly, and where I can improve...but I doubt it will come down to..."man, if only I had set a different time goal I would have done so much better."

That being said...my guess is I'll coming in around 5:45...but I'm not going to race shooting for that time.

Fred...I also agree very much with your point about testing vs. racing or previous race results.

In my experience, I test very well on the bike...but I don't seem to race to my "testing potential" after I swim.  

I think that's the best approach for most.  You should have an idea of what kind of time is reasonable to expect based upon your training.  But race day conditions (either external, like the weather, or internal, like under-the-weather) can cause wide variations and hanging onto a specific time goal (or, for that matter, HR level or power level) can lead to 'disaster'.  Execute the race as best you can and the time for the day (and position relative to others) wil be what it will be.  Enjoy the experience and use what you learn to make improvements in pacing next time.

The solution for that is to improve swim fitness. 

I thought the solution was to sit on my bucket for 5 minutes in T1 to catch my breath.