or if you may, it can be sin, just as lust, lies, adultry, hate, etc etc, of which we can all be forgiven.

Isn't it funny how seldom these modern day pharisees (tv preachers) talk about covetous(sp) greed, worldly possessions,etc

But Jim do you know what really frosts my A$$?

A snow cone about this high. (Hand at waist level)  bwahahahahahahahahaha

Also, someone wrote that "Christianity is easy..."

I understand what you meant, but Christianity is not easy and the first sentence of that first quote could be torn apart for hours.  It seems like most of the viewpoints (all well thought out and presented intelligently-I love BT!) I've read here are the viewpoints of intelligent, reasonable people filtering ideas and beliefs they have learned through their various mores/belief systems.  I emphasize, I used the word "reasonable".  This thread is convoluted enough so I'll skip the details, but if you spend some time studying the differences between the different denominations of Christianity, you'd find that there are some HUGE differences in them and the leaders of these denominations tend to be among the most unreasonable in terms of accepting what seems to be rational, or reasonable thought to the rest of us.

Now take all of that tangled up mess and throw it into the culture of America, where we are taught that we can be anything we want to be, do anything (legal), achieve anything and say anything and you have such a wide range of "allowed" behavior that the thing that began this thread, the political pressure put on Ford, doesn't seem all that surprising, does it?  Sure it sucks, but it's their right.  What am I going to do about it?  Put out my flag and thank my God that I live in America, warts and all, every day of my life.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am a Lutheran who drove a blue Subaru, was raised so republican I had an elephant phone and is disgusted by the current administration's policies.  Now I drive a black Jeep.

This is what I was getting at earlier, and I'll try to tie it back to Jim's original point in this thread.  There is a HUGE difference between the beliefs of the average member of most Christian denominations, and their leaders/authority figures.  Who says scripture must be read strictly literally?  There are several denominations that do, and they bristle at those of us who do not.  Another example of this (and I'm afraid of the response this might get me) is the Pope.  The Catholic Church as an organization contends that the Pope communicates with God, more directly than other people.  Do most Catholics really believe that?  I don't know, but I would guess that most either don't or figure they don't know and it doesn't affect them.  Anyway, the point is that with the group that Jim has a problem with calling for a Ford boycott is being led by people whose beliefs/motivations are probably far different from those of the average member.  I think that this whole issue is less about the religious right's view of homosexuality than it is about the use of religion as a tool to organize and motivate political power. 

I believe that there are only two things that people ever go to war over.  Land (representing power/wealth) and religion (representing beliefs/ideas).  Of the two of those, land came first.  Everything else is a means to an end. 

As a republican, I'm embarrassed at the use/abuse of religion for the purposes of amassing and wielding power.  But we hardly invented that technique.  As an intelligent, rational person I am proud of those of us who are able to think for ourselves and decide what's good for us without following blindly like lemmings.

Chris I never got Shakespear until I read his work and studied it and had it taught to me. How can you be born into a sinful world and not be a sinner? As for "dirty rags" , not my words but the Bibles, it demonstrates how God views our efforts as men. It teaches us that without his grace and without faith we are hopelessly lost in sin. And God cannot look upon sin. Hence "dirty rags". But you know the last thing I want to do here is to appear holier than thou or righteously uppity. Man I'm just like you, I just believe that Jesus provides a way for all of us and I choose to follow. I hope everyone will do the same. Study the "Good News" Chris, there's nothing like it on this earth. Really.