Terri Schiavo (Page 5)
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2005-03-29 11:09 AM in reply to: #135196 |
335 | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo Some levity was certainly needed here. Whew! :=) |
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2005-03-29 11:16 AM in reply to: #135190 |
Expert 948 Mount Vernon, Iowa | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo sharonnagy5 - 2005-03-29 9:53 AM Whatever was Terri - her mind, her soul - has been gone for 15 years. Her husband shouldn't have to give up the rest of his life. Imagine just for a second that these two people really did love each other and wanted the best for each other. What if Michael is telling the truth about her wish not to have her life extended by artificial means? What if Terri would have wanted to see her husband have the chance to have a family rather than sitting by her bedside for the rest of his life? The only way her family can make its case appealing is by making Michael out to be a monster. His case can be true and right without attacking anyone - it can be a love story. Maybe that's why I tend to sympathize with him. |
2005-03-29 11:28 AM in reply to: #135201 |
335 | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo I agree somewhat with what you're saying; I see both sides. Here's my issue with all of this--I don't understand why he has been with someone else for so long, has a new family basically, (children) and doesn't divorce her. I have often wondered what his children think of all this. It's sad to me. Just plain old sad--all the way around. I said I wouldn't comment anymore...and now I really won't. haha Have a nice day, all.... |
2005-03-29 11:33 AM in reply to: #135190 |
Pro 3906 St Charles, IL | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo sharonnagy5 - 2005-03-29 9:53 AM I am not judging by the way-- I am not casting stones... ~Sharon Methinks thou dost protest too much. |
2005-03-29 11:35 AM in reply to: #132794 |
Pro 5153 Helena, MT | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo I appreciate the way this site brings people together, and tends to steer away from controversial subjects. But I just feel too strongly about this issue.... Well, I think we've discovered why we steered away from controversial subjects... |
2005-03-29 11:39 AM in reply to: #135192 |
Elite 2733 Venture Industries, | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo Sharonn: I don't presume to know the mind of God. With the feeding tube Terri Schiavo could have existed for an indefinite period of time. How long should we keep her lying in that hospice bed without any higher brain activity? She's been there 15 years, another 10, another 20, another 30? Is that also what God wants. For a woman that would die without the feeding tube, a woman that has no higher brain functions, to simply exist because we keep her alive? I don't know? The Bible is void of any reference to feeding tubes or artificial means of life support. Additionally, your statement that it's the Schindlers that truely love her adds to my argument, that the pro-life movement has to cast Michael as a person that doesn't care, doesn't love, is cruel is a narcissist. Perhaps, just perhaps, he's doing this out of love for Terri because 1) It's what she would have wanted, 2) He can't stand seeing a once vibrant woman lying there incapapable of any thoughts and 3) He feels that by her death she will be released from her Earthly bounds and will go to Heaven. But of course, to the pro-life movement Michael cannot be acting out of love, he can only be acting out of selfishness or malice or evil intent. All I know is that if I'm in that situation I would hope that my wife loved me enough to take out the feeding tube. And if anyone prevented her that she fought to her last breath, out of love, to ensure that I didn't simply exist. |
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2005-03-29 11:39 AM in reply to: #135212 |
335 | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo Amen to that. We all have varying degrees of opinions, and sometimes opinions look like judgements. But, they are merely thoughts on this case. We could talk about the Robert Blake verdict if you all like? haha JUST teasing. ;+) |
2005-03-29 12:04 PM in reply to: #135217 |
Elite 2458 Livingston, MT | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo PAUSE Costello: All I'm trying to find out is what's the guy's name on first base. Abbott: No. What is on second base. Costello: I'm not asking you who's on second. Abbott: Who's on first. Costello: One base at a time! Abbott: Well, don't change the players around. Costello: I'm not changing nobody! Abbott: Take it easy, buddy. Costello: I'm only asking you, who's the guy on first base? Abbott: That's right. Costello: Ok. Abbott: All right. PAUSE |
2005-03-29 12:12 PM in reply to: #135217 |
Pro 5153 Helena, MT | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo No, I really think people are passing judgement on each other and people they don't know at all. One side is demonizing the Schindlers, the other is demonizing Michael Schaivo. We don't know all the circumstances or what these people are like. An argument on the politics and laws surrounding this case is completely in bounds for this argument, in my opinion (not that I make the rules or anything). But anyone who assumes to know what's in the heart of any of the "normal people" in this sad scenario is talking out their bum. |
2005-03-29 12:27 PM in reply to: #132794 |
Pro 4206 Los Angeles, CA | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo I will keep my personal opinions out about what I think is the "right" thing to do, but I'd just like to say that only God can ultimately judge who is right or wrong. From a legal standpoint, if her husband has the legal right to make the decision as a husband, then let him make the decision. If it's 'wrong,' he will surely find out on judgement day. |
2005-03-29 12:27 PM in reply to: #135206 |
Extreme Veteran 596 ma | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo sharonnagy5 - 2005-03-29 11:28 AM Here's my issue with all of this--I don't understand why he has been with someone else for so long, has a new family basically, (children) and doesn't divorce her. I think this point has been explained earlier in the thread. That is, that Michael is seeing to his wife's wishes to "the end". If he divorces her, then her wishes would not be carried out. His rights as her husband cease. So, it would seem, that it is with great care, devotion and staying power that he is taking this stance. I have been following this thread and so many have spoken quite eloquently and articulated much of what crosses my mind. In particular, the abuse of power by the president and (his)right wing interests. We are recently informed that Tom DeLay joined in the decision to disconnect his father from life support and yet, here he is advocating the Shiavo case as pro-life and to keep her connected, as such. An amazing sad display of using people as puppets. Carl Rove must be having some mighty fine deep belly laughs right about now. peace |
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2005-03-29 12:34 PM in reply to: #135249 |
Pro 4206 Los Angeles, CA | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo Talk about who runs this country, the puppet master himself. nikki - 2005-03-29 9:27 AM Carl Rove must be having some mighty fine deep belly laughs right about now. |
2005-03-29 12:37 PM in reply to: #135238 |
Elite 2733 Venture Industries, | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo I agree with you. The Fla. courts followed the procedures as set out in Florida statute for instances where there is no written advanced medical directives aka "a living will". They took testimony from numerous experts, some hired by the Schindlers, some hired by M. Schiavo and neutral court appointed experts. the court appointed a guardian ad litem pursuant to Fla. law, a neutral trained individual that is a representative of Terri, not of the Schindlers and not of M. Schiavo, and not of the Court. There have been numerous appeals, and numerous court proceedings at both the Federal and the State level. And despite all of the evidence that was presented to the Court, and despite the courts well reasoned rulings, finding as a matter of law, that Michael Schiavo had in fact demonstrated what his wifes wishes were/are, he is somehow a monster for carrying them out. Judge Greer has gotten death threats over his ruling! He has been asked to leave his church because of his ruling. People have called for the impeachment of Judge Whitemore because of his ruling. I don't demonize the Schindlers. I think they are parents that want their daughter back. They are agonizing over the eventual and inevitable and imminent death of their daughter. I just wish that the pro-life right would give Michael the same benefit they give the Schindlers. But, there just doesn't seem to be room for that in the radical rights characterization of this issue. You either agree that life is sacred and should be saved at all costs or you're a bad person acting out of some type of malice, like Michael Schiavo, Judge Greer or judge Whitemore. The radical right seems to have taken a possition that doesn't allow for any middle ground. i would love to debate the improprieties of Congress' actions in this case. And the danger of that action on both a Federal seperation of powers issue and a state's rights issue. i would love to debate the merits of Judge Greers decision and the subsequent merits of judge Whitemores decision. |
2005-03-29 12:46 PM in reply to: #135259 |
Buttercup 14334 | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo auto208562 - 2005-03-29 12:34 PM Talk about who runs this country, the puppet master himself. nikki - 2005-03-29 9:27 AM Carl Rove must be having some mighty fine deep belly laughs right about now. Did you ever notice his resemblance to Homer Stokes, Servant of the People, who ran for Gov'nuh (and KKK Grand somethin' or anuthuh) in "O Brother Where Art Thou?" "Is you is, or is you ain't, my constituency?" |
2005-03-29 12:54 PM in reply to: #135268 |
Expert 948 Mount Vernon, Iowa | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo ASA22 - 2005-03-29 11:37 AM i would love to debate the improprieties of Congress' actions in this case. And the danger of that action on both a Federal seperation of powers issue and a state's rights issue. i would love to debate the merits of Judge Greers decision and the subsequent merits of judge Whitemores decision. No kidding. I think what the radical right is really all about is undermining the rule of law in this country. Don't like judges' rulings? Get rid of them! Threaten them! Declare that law is less important than what your preacher is shouting in the pulpit every Sunday! The so-called politicization of the judiciary is another way of saying that certain factions don't like the law, don't like the Constitution, and are ready to get ugly with anyone who upholds them. That's what this is really about. Not long ago, Justice Scalia declared that governments derive their authority from God. Interesting, I thought that in our democracy we believed that governmental authority derived from THE CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED! A few of my ancestors fought a revolution for that principle. I tell ya, some days I'm fixin to fight too. Edited by CLLinIA 2005-03-29 12:57 PM |
2005-03-29 12:58 PM in reply to: #135217 |
Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo What follows is not a stand in the Shaivo issue, it is what I have been considering as a result of my growing awareness to end of life issues. It's personal to me, and I am only sharing because, hell I do not know why I am sharing. I guess it's because we are like family here :-). We can fight, and still carry on, I hope! My husband had better let his mom and family know his wishes, because if he told me to pull his plug, and then his mom (or sister or a brother) came along and said, I'll care for him, pay for him, etc, etc., I am just not ready to let my son/brother go. I wouldn't "pull the plug". His family will have to be ready before I could carry out his "voiced only to me" wishes. I have already told him this. (As it as been mentioned ad nausem, I told him that if he wants it any other way, PLEASE PLEASE, PLEASE get that living will in order and TELL everyone in your family BEFORE the moment of truth arrives. ) And I really really do love my husband very much. I have accomplished things in my life that others (and sometimes myself) have not thought possible, I have decided that I will survive a life-threatening injury (I am a police officer and I have considered and mentally determined that, if injured, I WILL NOT DIE) I believe this mind set will kick in even in an illness that could occure to me. So if I make that effort and succeed not to die, than damn it, don't EVEN consider pulling my plug. I will be do everything possible to recover and my family and my doctors better do everything possible to aid that recovery. This is for ME, it is not the course of action I expect of my husband, my kids, or anyone here to take. In fact it is not the course of action I even think the Schindlers or Michael Shaivo have to take. It's a personal decision, but it affects more than just one person. This issue can bond a family or it can destroy it. I hope that more of us will explore this issue for the well-being of our loved ones. Edited by zagagirl 2005-03-29 1:26 PM |
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2005-03-29 12:59 PM in reply to: #135280 |
Pro 5153 Helena, MT | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo Honestly, in this case, it seems like the Democrats are acting like Republicans (the good kind) and Republicans are acting like religious fanatics. Line up traditional Republican values with how those with an (R) behind their names these days and you'll find a huge discrepancy. |
2005-03-29 1:03 PM in reply to: #132794 |
Elite 2706 Hurst, Texas | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo I know I will get bashed for this comment, but the fact that I still can't get past is that while many people are saying how Michael Schiavo has shown so much "love, care, devotion, dedication, etc" by carrying out Terri's wishes, no one wants to face the fact that he STARTED ANOTHER FAMILY with another woman. If he wanted to see this through to the end with Terri, he should have done so. I think once he decided to "move on" and have kids with someone else, he should have turned Terri's care over to her parents. |
2005-03-29 1:15 PM in reply to: #135290 |
Buttercup 14334 | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo I can tell you that I would not want my husband to throw his life away while I'm in a vegetative state, having no consciousness or awareness, no hope of ever having a life with him again, no hope of having children. I would want him to have a LIFE, which includes happiness, joy, a partner who loves him and children. I would not want to deny him of this. I would not ask him to sacrifice his life; it's bad enough that my aware, engaged life had ended. If I were only in a coma for 10 years, I would want him to have a life besides caring for a wife who could not be a wife/ partner/ friend/ playmate to him. I would not want him to sacrifice his entire life to me. Life is for the living - he should live it as fully as he can. And, if my parents were trying to block my wishes, I would want my husband to fight for what I told him I wanted. If he divorced me while I was brain-dead, he would be essentially washing his hands of any legal responsibility for me. For that, I would be angry (which, of course, I wouldn't be because I would have no awareness, but IF I had awareness... you get my meaning). I see no problem with Michael starting a family with another woman, except it has opened him up to wide-spread stone casting (which, I suspect, he would be a victim of regardless of how maritally devout, self-sacrificing he was). Do we really need him to be a selfless, self-sacrificing husband to believe he is doing what his wife would have wanted? Not in my book. The man has suffered enough. Edited by Renee 2005-03-29 1:17 PM |
2005-03-29 1:20 PM in reply to: #132794 |
Elite 2706 Hurst, Texas | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo You do make some good points, Renee. It is just my personal opinion that he needs to choose one or the other. Either stay by her side, PERIOD (and wait to start the new family) or go ahead and start the new family, but let her parents take over her care. Like I said, this is a personal opinion only, and that plus a dollar cents will get you a crappy cup of coffee at best. |
2005-03-29 1:25 PM in reply to: #135290 |
Elite 2458 Livingston, MT | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo OldAg92 - 2005-03-29 10:03 AM I know I will get bashed for this comment, but the fact that I still can't get past is that while many people are saying how Michael Schiavo has shown so much "love, care, devotion, dedication, etc" by carrying out Terri's wishes, no one wants to face the fact that he STARTED ANOTHER FAMILY with another woman. If he wanted to see this through to the end with Terri, he should have done so. I think once he decided to "move on" and have kids with someone else, he should have turned Terri's care over to her parents. People for whatever reason won't personalize what they are saying. All of my comments so far have been in an effor to do just that. Going by what you are saying OldAg92, you would want your spouse to live a lonely depressed existence while you are in a vegetative state with no hope of recovery. Seems cruel and pointless. |
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2005-03-29 1:34 PM in reply to: #135290 |
Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo I won't bash you. It seems as though he has found a wonderful person to be with and they have two beautiful children together. Maybe he did not think he would have had to hang in with this situation for 15 years. He committed to it, but didn't know how tough Terri could be. |
2005-03-29 2:04 PM in reply to: #135290 |
335 | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo OldAg92, Amen. I agree. If you want to move on, go for it...but move on completely. No one would fault anyone for that. I just don't see the rush here. Look at all of the evidence, and then make the decision. This has NOT gone on for 15 years. This has gone on since 1997, shortly after Schiavo won that malpractice lawsuit, and thus became her POA for that trust fund. That's a fact, not my opinion. But, after reading some of these posts, I realize that I have no right to judge this man. I know that if something "wrong" was done here, God will bring justice to the appropriate parties. My opinion doesn't change that a woman is starving to death, nonetheless. Sharon |
2005-03-29 2:43 PM in reply to: #135342 |
Expert 948 Mount Vernon, Iowa | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo sharonnagy5 - 2005-03-29 1:04 PM My opinion doesn't change that a woman is starving to death, nonetheless. There are conscious, full-of-potential children starving to death as we speak. There are children in the U.S. who don't have enough to eat and can't get basic health care. I'd like to see Congress meeting in special session and the religious right screaming bloody murder on their behalf. I suspect the Schiavo issue is getting so much air time and jawboning because it doesn't require anyone to do anything tougher than pushing a button on their remote. |
2005-03-29 2:54 PM in reply to: #135367 |
335 | Subject: RE: Terri Schiavo True, and there are a myriad of charitable organizations trying to help those individuals. (if they are able) Although this is one case, and although these decisions happen all the time, this case brings us to attention, with regards to our own lives, and what's important to each of us. Does anyone on here feel that standing by and watching a woman starve to death is inhumane? I'm not talking about the legal ramifications...I'm not talking about the laws...I'm not talking politics....I'm talking about your personal view. I said I would stop commenting on this three hours ago....ugh! |
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