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Evondo's Group - CLOSED! (Page 5)
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 2009-12-16 9:45 AM in reply to: #2561885 |
Master  1318   Houston |  Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED!All of Justin's points are valid but I won't say it's not important  Everyone has a more natural side to breathe on and yes in races we'll all tend to favor that side which is completely fine. That is until you have wind coming in from that direction and waves in your face, which has happened to me a few times and in that situation it's good to have options. Or in the case where you swallow a nice mouthful of water on your favorite side, instead of stopping and coughing up a lung you can just quickly rotate to your weak side and get your air. When breathing to your right it sounds like your left arm is trying to provide leverage for you to reach for your breath causing your neck/shoulder pain. Instead try to focus on rotating your body to get air and keeping one goggle (left one in breathing to right case) in the water. Trin2bfast - 2009-12-16 9:09 AM KeriKadi - 2009-12-16 8:47 AM In other words just tell me breathing bi-laterally isn't important and I can simply breathe only on my left for the rest of my swimming/tri career and I won't have any neck/shoulder issues to show for it, k? EvD may say differently, but.... it isn't important! see, now that was easy. Ha Ha! Swim on! But then again, that's why I am not a swim coach either. Seriously though, I have tried the bilateral breathing thing in training and can do it in a training environment... but you put 100+ fellow swimmers around me and that all goes out the window. I know it helps balance your stroke, swim muscles, and can help when you get into swim situations where breathing only to your left is blocked by wind, waves & other swimmers. BUT ~ if it is causing discomfort & fatigue... you are likely not going to continue it under fire. Keep focusing on the other aspects of your swim technique and revisit that as you become more effecient elsewhere in the swim. |
| 2009-12-16 9:46 AM in reply to: #2561801 |
Master 1318 Houston | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! There are indoor and outdoor heated pools ya know! KeriKadi - 2009-12-16 8:48 AM evondo - 2009-12-16 8:46 AM In addition to asking for questions... Please post what a normal swim workout is like for you including sets if you do them and speeds if you know them. I tried to look for workouts on some of your TLs but some of you haven't been in the water in a while You're calling me out already? It's only day TWO! And, and, and it's cold outside! |
| 2009-12-16 9:56 AM in reply to: #2561901 |
Master 1318 Houston | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! I always recommend a couple private lessons if you can find/afford a masters/high school coach. Betsy in this group was in a very similar starting situation as you, I don't think she could do a full 25 without stopping. She now does 2000+ yd workouts and has a great stroke because she spent the beginning time worrying about technique. To help you in the meantime, get a pair of fins... it'll take your kick out of the equation and when you kick your speed will be much faster helping your body position and should help your breathing. Of course you can't do the tri with fins so the plan would be to use them more in the beginning to help with stroke technique and work your way off using them as you feel you're improving. I would recommend focusing more on getting your head in the water and not crossing your legs. Crossing the legs will cause your hips/legs to drag more which is not what you want, no need to resistance training in the water loeber - 2009-12-16 9:16 AM Swim... last one was good. I am not focusing on stroke or breathing, just get the distance in, All is done head out of the water, one less thing to focus on. the first 2 lengths are just arm frontcrawl with my legs crossed. then whip kick to rest and catch breath with 25m of sculling before going through it again. My kick and breath are what I feel are my weakest areas, any pointers would be great.
Dan. |
| 2009-12-16 10:09 AM in reply to: #2558074 |
Master 1591  San Diego, CA | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! I have spent the last season working on my stroke and have seen huge improvements. My only problem is my kick is inefficient and I can't seem to keep the pace up on kick sets. Is it worth working hard to improve the kick? If so, what can I do to improve efficiency and power? |
| 2009-12-16 10:10 AM in reply to: #2561989 |
Master 1318 Houston | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! Running form - make sure your center of gravity is above your landing foot. If it's behind, try shortening your stride and lean slightly forward. Are you able to run on a soft surface? Dirt, gravel, trail? Also, avoid running down steep hills. kcarroll - 2009-12-16 9:45 AM Last flare up was in November just prior to a planned half. I must admit though I was slacking on the strength training. I now ice both knees after every run. Previously ice bathed after runs longer than 9 miles. I have a foam roller but haven't used for this. Any advice is very welcome. |
| 2009-12-16 10:13 AM in reply to: #2558074 |
| Triathlete Nation ~ Texas! | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! KimC ~ well it looks like you have the diagnosis/treatment plan in order. It is good that you have a solid sports med doc to meet with. Especially being a runner ~ he gets it I would guess. I would revist strength training (maybe lunges, light weight calf raises, work the hip flexors - maybe some pilattes ~ that type of approach to reinforce the muscular structure for the entire leg) What about your run cadence/stride length? Maybe see about a gait analysis. Or try a shorter stride, with a little quicker foot turnover. A run cadence of 95+ steps per minute. Just a thought. Best of luck ~ keep us posted. |
| 2009-12-16 10:13 AM in reply to: #2562073 |
Master 1318 Houston | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! Just so everyone knows, if you have an idea or comment about a question someone posted please reply and let us all know. No one knows everything and I have learned quite a few tricks from people that I would have never thought of otherwise.... |
| 2009-12-16 10:15 AM in reply to: #2562073 |
Extreme Veteran 689 | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! I'm reading Chi Running and they go through some techniques that help you do exactly what Eric is saying. I'm not close to done finishing the book but I find it helpful. evondo - 2009-12-16 11:10 AM Running form - make sure your center of gravity is above your landing foot. If it's behind, try shortening your stride and lean slightly forward. Are you able to run on a soft surface? Dirt, gravel, trail? Also, avoid running down steep hills. kcarroll - 2009-12-16 9:45 AM Last flare up was in November just prior to a planned half. I must admit though I was slacking on the strength training. I now ice both knees after every run. Previously ice bathed after runs longer than 9 miles. I have a foam roller but haven't used for this. Any advice is very welcome. |
| 2009-12-16 10:17 AM in reply to: #2561792 |
Pro 4482 NJ | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! evondo - 2009-12-16 9:46 AM In addition to asking for questions... Please post what a normal swim workout is like for you including sets if you do them and speeds if you know them. I tried to look for workouts on some of your TLs but some of you haven't been in the water in a while evondo - 2009-12-16 8:39 AM My background generally attracts quite a few swim questions so lets get to it... what questions do you have about swimming? Technique, training, problems whatever is on your mind... I swim 2x week with a masters group and the coach provides the workout, which always includes sets on the clock. (She breaks us into groups by ability and I am in the slowest lane  so our 50's are on 1:30, 1:20 then 1:10. I really struggle to keep up and can't maintain form on these. As I pick up pace, my spl increase fairly significantly. I try to get at least one or two additional swims on my own as I was told twice a week maintain, 3-4 will see improvement. On those, I admit I just get in the pool and swim for an hour, usually trying to focus on one thing ie breathing, stroke, head position etc. I did pick up a tempo timer (you'll soon realize I'm a gadget girl) but haven't really figured out the best way to use it. |
| 2009-12-16 10:23 AM in reply to: #2562089 |
Pro 4482 NJ | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! trying1 - 2009-12-16 11:15 AM I'm reading Chi Running and they go through some techniques that help you do exactly what Eric is saying. I'm not close to done finishing the book but I find it helpful. evondo - 2009-12-16 11:10 AM Running form - make sure your center of gravity is above your landing foot. If it's behind, try shortening your stride and lean slightly forward. Are you able to run on a soft surface? Dirt, gravel, trail? Also, avoid running down steep hills. kcarroll - 2009-12-16 9:45 AM Last flare up was in November just prior to a planned half. I must admit though I was slacking on the strength training. I now ice both knees after every run. Previously ice bathed after runs longer than 9 miles. I have a foam roller but haven't used for this. Any advice is very welcome. Stan, thanks for the reminder on Chi Running. I have the book as well and will dust it off. I wish I could find a soft surface. I usually just take off from the driveway and run around town, preferring asphalt to sidewalk whenever possible. Will see if I can find a trail, at least for the long runs. |
| 2009-12-16 10:23 AM in reply to: #2558074 |
Extreme Veteran 689 | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! In regards to swimming and breathing. I used to compete in swimming in HS (only senior yr) and no matter what I practiced in terms of breathing it didn't hold true for me during races. I found this to be true for me in tri races too. The adrenalin alone changed my breathing and for tri's it's just the whole environment. Currently during practice I only bi-lateral breath but during races I only breath on my right or left but on every stroke, if i don't I feel like I don't get enough air. Eric can you recommend some sighting techniques or drills? |
| 2009-12-16 10:26 AM in reply to: #2562073 |
| Triathlete Nation ~ Texas! | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! Running form is so often overlooked. It all leads to better effeciency and less stress to the body. I have heard good things about the Chi running. Become more of a mid-foot to fore-foot striker will lead to better effeciency as well. But for most runners, it requires your form to change to what Eric has described. (strengthening calf & foot muscles/tendons) Something else to consider is Newton brand shoes, they are supposedly designed to assist in this change of form as well. I have not tried them, but I have seen a bunch of runners sporting them. Does anyone use them? (proper shoe fit and/or shoe choice is a very important part of the run equation) evondo - 2009-12-16 10:10 AM Running form - make sure your center of gravity is above your landing foot. If it's behind, try shortening your stride and lean slightly forward. Are you able to run on a soft surface? Dirt, gravel, trail? Also, avoid running down steep hills. kcarroll - 2009-12-16 9:45 AM Last flare up was in November just prior to a planned half. I must admit though I was slacking on the strength training. I now ice both knees after every run. Previously ice bathed after runs longer than 9 miles. I have a foam roller but haven't used for this. Any advice is very welcome. |
| 2009-12-16 10:48 AM in reply to: #2558074 |
Master 1623 | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! Well as I've said I can't swim until after Christmas break  which will be January 5th or 6th depending on when I head back up to college, but I definitely could use some advice on swimming. Usually my swimming consists of alternating 5 laps (25m each) backstroke with one lap freestyle. I can't do anymore than 1 lap right now because I get so out of breath. Any suggestions for drills or how to improve my breathing is greatly appreciated! Also I know there's a lot of books out there about swimming. Are there any that you think are really good and would be helpful for me right now? |
| 2009-12-16 11:02 AM in reply to: #2558074 |
| Triathlete Nation ~ Texas! | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! I have a copy of Total Immersion (video), and would be willing to copy it and send it out to whom ever would like one. Since many do not have direct access to our uber swim mentor... this may provide some good insight and help with learning good techniques to work on. I will copy it & mail it at no charge, I would just need a mailing address. I did this in the last mentor group I was in (Dangremond's) and it seem to help some of the folks there. Warning - it is not the most exciting video to watch... lol! You can PM or email me your address and I'll get working on that. (however, I am experiencing some computer issues at home right now, but I am hoping to have this resolved asap, so I apologize in any delay initially). |
| 2009-12-16 11:04 AM in reply to: #2560195 |
Extreme Veteran 380 Houston | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - OPEN! Trin2bfast - 2009-12-15 12:46 PM I have ridden with him Kel... he's a freak (lol!)... built kinda like Eric and can climb hills like a skinny dooood! Sickening! (Not that EvD isn't skinny - but the two of them got way to much muscle to be climbing mountains!) haha! BTW, Ken I fixed JP's name for ya.... KelliD - 2009-12-15 12:24 PM WOW!!!! That is seriously impressive!!! The bike is hands down my limiter, so hearing things like this is sooo motivating! I KENOTT swim - 2009-12-15 1:09 PM I have already changed Justin to Justine in my phone to remind me to NEVER let you live this down. WELCOME! Justine and his neighbor Larry are the reasons I went from new bike to my 1st century ride in 6 weeks. They were my unoffical bike coaches. I got really good at drafting. I can break the habit if I must during a race. Kelli - Don't let Justin Case fool you. He can ride me off the road with a puppy in his jersey for 20 miles. I am not sure if you have ever tried to draft off a bike with a puppy passenger at 24 MPH through the hills - too much fun! It was a ride I will never forget. |
| 2009-12-16 11:07 AM in reply to: #2562233 |
Master 1318 Houston | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! A friend just sent me this, a little long but worth it. http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5749137/ In the spirit of this video and xmas right around the corner are there any fun tri purchases coming up? I'll let my previous mentor group give you my suggestions |
| 2009-12-16 11:13 AM in reply to: #2558074 |
Champion 12759 Chicago | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! Hi everyone, I am really intimidated by the group....wow the experience!!!! I can't wait to learn. I am really passionate and ambitious and promise to give a 100%. The next couple of weeks of my life are just chaotic....so i will be under the radar till the new year, I'll pop in when I can! I have no clue what I am doing but can definitely provide you with some good banter and laughs! I am still trying to figure out this whole site and will work on adding you all as friends this week! |
| 2009-12-16 11:13 AM in reply to: #2562063 |
Pro 4824 Houston | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! jezzieswims - 2009-12-16 10:09 AM Here's an example of a typical workout. I wouldn't mind doing drills if I knew what they were. I know what the 400 free is, the rest is Greek! Is there a place I can watch what a pull is? By kick do you mean with a kick board? I also don't get the whole 2 beat kick thing - I just kick my feet, too busy trying to breathe, not sink and work on my form than count what my feet are doing  When I started the side-stroke was my friend and I used that more than half of my first tri (I was passing gals freestyling) and it helped with the whole panic thing. I worked up from doing mostly side-stroking to mixing in some free to doing all freestyle. All this swim talk makes me want to get in the pool (assuming their hours didn't suck) the hard part is getting OUT when it is COLD! |
| 2009-12-16 11:16 AM in reply to: #2562063 |
Master 1318 Houston | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! For triathletes there's not really a point to improve kicking speed. Most important thing is to use the legs as little and most efficiently as possible which is a 2-beat kick. 2-beat kick is just to aid in body rotation and is one kick per arm pull. Also, part of efficiency is only bending slightly at the knee. jezzieswims - 2009-12-16 10:09 AM I have spent the last season working on my stroke and have seen huge improvements. My only problem is my kick is inefficient and I can't seem to keep the pace up on kick sets. Is it worth working hard to improve the kick? If so, what can I do to improve efficiency and power? |
| 2009-12-16 11:20 AM in reply to: #2561773 |
Extreme Veteran 380 Houston | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! evondo - 2009-12-16 8:39 AM My background generally attracts quite a few swim questions so lets get to it... what questions do you have about swimming? Technique, training, problems whatever is on your mind... Where would you start? Technique is more important to me than distance or speed (I think). I think if I start out aiming for technique the rest will come together with practice??? The winter pool hours at our 'Y' suck but I should be able to figure out a time to get a few laps in some weekends. I do not plan on going to 288 until I can complete a few consecutive laps in the pool without dying. At this time of year and this point in my training I don't see me purchasing a wet suit (I will have one for next winter if I don't drown first). My guess is I will be at 288 in March. |
| 2009-12-16 11:22 AM in reply to: #2562094 |
Master 1318 Houston | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! That's very good to know. There's a 'drill' called swim golf that you should try. Swim a 50, count your strokes and note your time. Add those two #s together and repeat trying to get as low of a score as possible. Doing this will help you find the right turn over rate that optimizes your speed/efficiency. The tempo timer is meant to tell you when to pull, set the beeping to the point where you think man that's way to long and give it a shot. Nearly all beginners tend to turnover their arms to fast. Focus more on body rotation and going smooth and relaxed your stroke count will decrease by quite a bit. kcarroll - 2009-12-16 10:17 AM evondo - 2009-12-16 9:46 AM In addition to asking for questions... Please post what a normal swim workout is like for you including sets if you do them and speeds if you know them. I tried to look for workouts on some of your TLs but some of you haven't been in the water in a while evondo - 2009-12-16 8:39 AM My background generally attracts quite a few swim questions so lets get to it... what questions do you have about swimming? Technique, training, problems whatever is on your mind... I swim 2x week with a masters group and the coach provides the workout, which always includes sets on the clock. (She breaks us into groups by ability and I am in the slowest lane so our 50's are on 1:30, 1:20 then 1:10. I really struggle to keep up and can't maintain form on these. As I pick up pace, my spl increase fairly significantly. I try to get at least one or two additional swims on my own as I was told twice a week maintain, 3-4 will see improvement. On those, I admit I just get in the pool and swim for an hour, usually trying to focus on one thing ie breathing, stroke, head position etc. I did pick up a tempo timer (you'll soon realize I'm a gadget girl) but haven't really figured out the best way to use it. |
| 2009-12-16 11:28 AM in reply to: #2562246 |
| Triathlete Nation ~ Texas! | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! evondo - 2009-12-16 11:07 AM A friend just sent me this, a little long but worth it. http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5749137/ In the spirit of this video and xmas right around the corner are there any fun tri purchases coming up? I'll let my previous mentor group give you my suggestions Hmmmmm.... this is tough! Let me think... oh yeah, POWER TAP, POWER TAP, POWER TAP.... No you can't make me! ha ha! I am looking to pick up a new front wheel... but EvD keeps pressuring me (et. al.) to spend the money on a power meter instead. We'll see! |
| 2009-12-16 11:29 AM in reply to: #2562109 |
Master 1318 Houston | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! Softer surface might make a huge difference, people react differently. I'm a wuss when it comes to asphalt/concrete. 2-3 days of running on that and I'm aching everywhere. Normally after races I'll have joint pain since it's higher intensity but it's after the race so I don't really care kcarroll - 2009-12-16 10:23 AM trying1 - 2009-12-16 11:15 AM I'm reading Chi Running and they go through some techniques that help you do exactly what Eric is saying. I'm not close to done finishing the book but I find it helpful. evondo - 2009-12-16 11:10 AM Running form - make sure your center of gravity is above your landing foot. If it's behind, try shortening your stride and lean slightly forward. Are you able to run on a soft surface? Dirt, gravel, trail? Also, avoid running down steep hills. kcarroll - 2009-12-16 9:45 AM Last flare up was in November just prior to a planned half. I must admit though I was slacking on the strength training. I now ice both knees after every run. Previously ice bathed after runs longer than 9 miles. I have a foam roller but haven't used for this. Any advice is very welcome. Stan, thanks for the reminder on Chi Running. I have the book as well and will dust it off. I wish I could find a soft surface. I usually just take off from the driveway and run around town, preferring asphalt to sidewalk whenever possible. Will see if I can find a trail, at least for the long runs. |
| 2009-12-16 11:38 AM in reply to: #2562262 |
| Triathlete Nation ~ Texas! | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! NRG42 - 2009-12-16 11:13 AM Hi everyone, I am really intimidated by the group....wow the experience!!!! I can't wait to learn. I am really passionate and ambitious and promise to give a 100%. The next couple of weeks of my life are just chaotic....so i will be under the radar till the new year, I'll pop in when I can! I have no clue what I am doing but can definitely provide you with some good banter and laughs! I am still trying to figure out this whole site and will work on adding you all as friends this week! Don't be... We are all here to provide advice, support, and encouragement. New to Tri's is only one element to the equation... your experience & strengths will be just as important, as we all will continue to learn and improve through each other and this forum. Oh and the good banter & laughs is always welcome... that is what builds a good coheasive group! |
| 2009-12-16 11:40 AM in reply to: #2562024 |
Extreme Veteran 599 Houston, TX | Subject: RE: Evondo's Group - CLOSED! Dan - you and I are two peas in a pod! I understand what you are going through. Swimming is all about technique though. I would highly highly highly recommend getting a few private lessons as soon as possible. That way you are learning proper technique in the beginning. You don't want to be creating bad habits because then it is harder to un-do the bad habits. And yes, fins are my BFF! I still struggle in the OW atmosphere as well. (That and my nerves generally get the best of me on race day!) I have yet to freestyle an entire OWS but that is a goal. evondo - 2009-12-16 9:56 AM I always recommend a couple private lessons if you can find/afford a masters/high school coach. Betsy in this group was in a very similar starting situation as you, I don't think she could do a full 25 without stopping. She now does 2000+ yd workouts and has a great stroke because she spent the beginning time worrying about technique. To help you in the meantime, get a pair of fins... it'll take your kick out of the equation and when you kick your speed will be much faster helping your body position and should help your breathing. Of course you can't do the tri with fins so the plan would be to use them more in the beginning to help with stroke technique and work your way off using them as you feel you're improving. I would recommend focusing more on getting your head in the water and not crossing your legs. Crossing the legs will cause your hips/legs to drag more which is not what you want, no need to resistance training in the water loeber - 2009-12-16 9:16 AM Swim... last one was good. I am not focusing on stroke or breathing, just get the distance in, All is done head out of the water, one less thing to focus on. the first 2 lengths are just arm frontcrawl with my legs crossed. then whip kick to rest and catch breath with 25m of sculling before going through it again. My kick and breath are what I feel are my weakest areas, any pointers would be great.
Dan. |
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