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2012-12-26 11:36 AM
in reply to: #4548241

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 7:36 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 9:18 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:05 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 8:58 AM

Hey, if I'm a burglar, I'm happy to see that list posted!!!  Laughing 

You can't fix stupid.

Exactly! So why are gun owners up in arms about this? Ohhhh pun intended. Seriously, though, why are gun owners upset about this? I thought they'd want everybody to know they have a gun so the bad guys won't come to their houses because everybody knows if a bad guy knows you have a gun, he won't mess with you,which, of course, is why police officers never get messed with. And if owning a gun is so cool and awesome and you're such a badass for having one, why would anybody care? Isn't it a deterrent to crime?

Actually, if I was a burglar I'd be sitting around waiting for them to leave.......so I could go get their guns.  If you are a permit holder chances are you have more guns too.  Guns are easy to get rid of and bring good money for heroin junkies where I am. 

I realize I look at things a bit differently than you, Tony, I just know what I deal with every day...it's never as black and white as you'd like to think.

When did I say it was black and white? I am asking a serious question. All the gun owners on here are proud to announce what kind of gun they have in a very public forum and on facebook my friends keep posting things like `That door was locked for YOUR protection, not mine.' with a picture of a big gun. Yet when someone actually knows they have a gun, it's `Don't tell anybody!' Why? Because you're afraid someone is going to steal your gun? So you're saying that owning a gun isn't a deterrent to crime, it's just a deterrent to a certain type of crime and instead makes you more vulnerable to another type of crime?

So Tony, you should be able to tell me what I own based on what you said. So what do I own?

Just more bigoted views tony, disgusting!



2012-12-26 11:44 AM
in reply to: #4547960

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published

Other than throwing gas on the fire, what is the purpose of publishing the map? As a semi-liberal (I hate these labels) am I supposed to start flailing my arms about the evil gun owners?

When they can publish a map of all the ILLEGAL guns, then I'll care.

2012-12-26 11:44 AM
in reply to: #4548425

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 11:19 AM



Eventually Congress and the president will hear us and be all `Those guys over at BT sure know their stuff. Let's hire them.'


That won't happen. Biden is in charge of the task force.

So......

We'll end up with a 2,700 page report on GUM control and be told that we "just have to read it to find out what it says"


2012-12-26 11:45 AM
in reply to: #4548439

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published

GomesBolt - 2012-12-26 11:27 AM I find it a little strange that people don't ask the questions that JMKBrooklyn asked earlier about what guns people have and how they're secured when their kids are visiting.

For the record, mine are in a keypad safe that my wife and I know the combo to.

I've got two safes.  One is a fireproof floor safe that has all our important legal documents and lots of ammo.  The other is a stand up corner tactical safe that has a finger combo lock on top with both a loaded shotgun/handgun at the ready.  I can get to both in about 3 seconds if necessary.

My other handgun is either on my person or locked in one of the safes.  I never leave them unattended.

I do have one .22 rifle that is locked in a rifle case high up in the closet.  The ammo is locked separately and it has a trigger lock on it.  So, if we were to be broken into there is a risk of the .22 walking away, but that's about the only risk.  I do have full HD security camera's on every entrance of the house so there's a decent chance I'll catch any idiots that do try to break in. 

I will say that all this discussion about people stealing other peoples guns and committing crimes has changed my thoughts a little on the home safe subject.  I've always just done it, but it's more along the lines of my wife not letting me buy more if they get stolen (our insurance has a $5k deductible).  However, I'm really glad that I do have them locked in a safe now. 

Over Christmas we went to a few relatives houses who had the standard glass gun cabinet out in the living room with a dozen or more guns on display.  At a couple of them they had the key hanging in the lock on the cabinet, so nobody would even have to break the glass.  Tony will be happy to know I actually felt a little judgmental at them, thinking they should do a better job of securing their guns. 

2012-12-26 11:46 AM
in reply to: #4548460

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
crusevegas - 2012-12-26 11:36 AM

mr2tony - 2012-12-26 7:36 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 9:18 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:05 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 8:58 AM

Hey, if I'm a burglar, I'm happy to see that list posted!!!  Laughing 

You can't fix stupid.

Exactly! So why are gun owners up in arms about this? Ohhhh pun intended. Seriously, though, why are gun owners upset about this? I thought they'd want everybody to know they have a gun so the bad guys won't come to their houses because everybody knows if a bad guy knows you have a gun, he won't mess with you,which, of course, is why police officers never get messed with. And if owning a gun is so cool and awesome and you're such a badass for having one, why would anybody care? Isn't it a deterrent to crime?

Actually, if I was a burglar I'd be sitting around waiting for them to leave.......so I could go get their guns.  If you are a permit holder chances are you have more guns too.  Guns are easy to get rid of and bring good money for heroin junkies where I am. 

I realize I look at things a bit differently than you, Tony, I just know what I deal with every day...it's never as black and white as you'd like to think.

When did I say it was black and white? I am asking a serious question. All the gun owners on here are proud to announce what kind of gun they have in a very public forum and on facebook my friends keep posting things like `That door was locked for YOUR protection, not mine.' with a picture of a big gun. Yet when someone actually knows they have a gun, it's `Don't tell anybody!' Why? Because you're afraid someone is going to steal your gun? So you're saying that owning a gun isn't a deterrent to crime, it's just a deterrent to a certain type of crime and instead makes you more vulnerable to another type of crime?

So Tony, you should be able to tell me what I own based on what you said. So what do I own?

Just more bigoted views tony, disgusting!



There's a thread about new gun purchases and and in several threads people talk about what guns they own.

And calling me bigoted is not constructive. Yes, I have strong feelings about it just as you do. Because my opinions are different than yours, I'm hypocritical and you're, what, righteous? You think everybody should share your view of the world and when they don't, they're bigoted?
2012-12-26 11:47 AM
in reply to: #4548467

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published

bradleyd3 - 2012-12-26 12:44 PM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 11:19 AM Eventually Congress and the president will hear us and be all `Those guys over at BT sure know their stuff. Let's hire them.'
That won't happen. Biden is in charge of the task force. So...... We'll end up with a 2,700 page report on GUM control and be told that we "just have to read it to find out what it says"

Haha this is EXACTLY what Congress needs



Edited by BrianRunsPhilly 2012-12-26 11:47 AM


2012-12-26 11:47 AM
in reply to: #4548467

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
bradleyd3 - 2012-12-26 11:44 AM

mr2tony - 2012-12-26 11:19 AM



Eventually Congress and the president will hear us and be all `Those guys over at BT sure know their stuff. Let's hire them.'


That won't happen. Biden is in charge of the task force.

So......

We'll end up with a 2,700 page report on GUM control and be told that we "just have to read it to find out what it says"




I thought it would be on GNU control. Or lack thereof.
2012-12-26 11:57 AM
in reply to: #4548439

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published

GomesBolt - 2012-12-26 11:27 AM I find it a little strange that people don't ask the questions that JMKBrooklyn asked earlier about what guns people have and how they're secured when their kids are visiting.

For the record, mine are in a keypad safe that my wife and I know the combo to.

Oh.....hell no!!! Laughing

2012-12-26 12:01 PM
in reply to: #4548486

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 12:57 PM

GomesBolt - 2012-12-26 11:27 AM I find it a little strange that people don't ask the questions that JMKBrooklyn asked earlier about what guns people have and how they're secured when their kids are visiting.

For the record, mine are in a keypad safe that my wife and I know the combo to.

Oh.....hell no!!! Laughing

I know!!! What was she thinking giving him the combo????  Laughing

 

2012-12-26 12:07 PM
in reply to: #4548471

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:46 AM
crusevegas - 2012-12-26 11:36 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 7:36 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 9:18 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:05 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 8:58 AM

Hey, if I'm a burglar, I'm happy to see that list posted!!!  Laughing 

You can't fix stupid.

Exactly! So why are gun owners up in arms about this? Ohhhh pun intended. Seriously, though, why are gun owners upset about this? I thought they'd want everybody to know they have a gun so the bad guys won't come to their houses because everybody knows if a bad guy knows you have a gun, he won't mess with you,which, of course, is why police officers never get messed with. And if owning a gun is so cool and awesome and you're such a badass for having one, why would anybody care? Isn't it a deterrent to crime?

Actually, if I was a burglar I'd be sitting around waiting for them to leave.......so I could go get their guns.  If you are a permit holder chances are you have more guns too.  Guns are easy to get rid of and bring good money for heroin junkies where I am. 

I realize I look at things a bit differently than you, Tony, I just know what I deal with every day...it's never as black and white as you'd like to think.

When did I say it was black and white? I am asking a serious question. All the gun owners on here are proud to announce what kind of gun they have in a very public forum and on facebook my friends keep posting things like `That door was locked for YOUR protection, not mine.' with a picture of a big gun. Yet when someone actually knows they have a gun, it's `Don't tell anybody!' Why? Because you're afraid someone is going to steal your gun? So you're saying that owning a gun isn't a deterrent to crime, it's just a deterrent to a certain type of crime and instead makes you more vulnerable to another type of crime?

So Tony, you should be able to tell me what I own based on what you said. So what do I own?

Just more bigoted views tony, disgusting!

There's a thread about new gun purchases and and in several threads people talk about what guns they own. And calling me bigoted is not constructive. Yes, I have strong feelings about it just as you do. Because my opinions are different than yours, I'm hypocritical and you're, what, righteous? You think everybody should share your view of the world and when they don't, they're bigoted?

I didn't call you a bigot, I said you were expressing views that were.

Take a deep breath tony and go back and look at your first post on this thread.

I think the difference in views you and I have is that I'm comfortable with people who don't want to own a firearm, you appear on the other hand feel comfortable in labeling everyone with a firearm as paranoid and would like to see their right to own them stripped.

2012-12-26 12:25 PM
in reply to: #4548501

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
crusevegas - 2012-12-26 12:07 PM

mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:46 AM
crusevegas - 2012-12-26 11:36 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 7:36 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 9:18 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:05 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 8:58 AM

Hey, if I'm a burglar, I'm happy to see that list posted!!!  Laughing 

You can't fix stupid.

Exactly! So why are gun owners up in arms about this? Ohhhh pun intended. Seriously, though, why are gun owners upset about this? I thought they'd want everybody to know they have a gun so the bad guys won't come to their houses because everybody knows if a bad guy knows you have a gun, he won't mess with you,which, of course, is why police officers never get messed with. And if owning a gun is so cool and awesome and you're such a badass for having one, why would anybody care? Isn't it a deterrent to crime?

Actually, if I was a burglar I'd be sitting around waiting for them to leave.......so I could go get their guns.  If you are a permit holder chances are you have more guns too.  Guns are easy to get rid of and bring good money for heroin junkies where I am. 

I realize I look at things a bit differently than you, Tony, I just know what I deal with every day...it's never as black and white as you'd like to think.

When did I say it was black and white? I am asking a serious question. All the gun owners on here are proud to announce what kind of gun they have in a very public forum and on facebook my friends keep posting things like `That door was locked for YOUR protection, not mine.' with a picture of a big gun. Yet when someone actually knows they have a gun, it's `Don't tell anybody!' Why? Because you're afraid someone is going to steal your gun? So you're saying that owning a gun isn't a deterrent to crime, it's just a deterrent to a certain type of crime and instead makes you more vulnerable to another type of crime?

So Tony, you should be able to tell me what I own based on what you said. So what do I own?

Just more bigoted views tony, disgusting!

There's a thread about new gun purchases and and in several threads people talk about what guns they own. And calling me bigoted is not constructive. Yes, I have strong feelings about it just as you do. Because my opinions are different than yours, I'm hypocritical and you're, what, righteous? You think everybody should share your view of the world and when they don't, they're bigoted?

I didn't call you a bigot, I said you were expressing views that were.

Take a deep breath tony and go back and look at your first post on this thread.

I think the difference in views you and I have is that I'm comfortable with people who don't want to own a firearm, you appear on the other hand feel comfortable in labeling everyone with a firearm as paranoid and would like to see their right to own them stripped.



That's incorrect.

What I propose (and have proposed in another thread) is that we make punishments for people who are in legal possession of a gun a deterrent. If you're caught with an illegal weapon, you go to jail for a very long time. What we have right now is a joke. Also, set guidelines that say if you're an irresponsible gun owner and your gun is used in a crime or your kid accidentally shoots the neighbor because you didn't lock it up, then you will face some sort of punishment. As it's been said, there are punishments for people who leave their guns unlocked in some states, but not all. And make the punishments stiff so as to deter gun owners from being irresponsible. That should be a given, but it's not. Also, make it so people with felonies on their records can never own a gun. I honestly thought that was also a given, but it's not. Felons can own guns. Does that not seem crazy to you?

I've never said anybody shouldn't be allowed to buy a gun as long as they prove they're legally allowed to carry one and they're responsible enough to keep it. Yes, I advocate stricter gun control laws, such a banning assault weapons and 100-round magazines because I personally believe nobody other than the military should be carrying something with so much destructive power.

As for your assertion that I'm not comfortable with people who want to own a firearm, that's simply not true. I have no problem with it. My brother has an arsenal at his house. I went to Christmas Eve dinner at a house of a person with a Tommy Gun for crying out loud. I am perfectly comfortable around those people. My question, though, is why people feel they need it. When people say `To be ready in case I'm attacked' or `home protection' or `to fight the government in case they get out of hand.' then yes, I would say those people are paranoid because, as I ask my brother all the time, `When was the last time your home was invaded or you were robbed on the mean streets of Omaha?' His response is `Well, never, but you don't know!!!' I would contend that having such a variety of weapons in his house doesn't make him safer, that in fact it makes his home a target for people looking for guns. This thread kind of proves my theory.

You don't have to like my opinions, and you rarely do, and I'm OK with that. But don't say they're bigoted or disgusting just because they don't jive with yours.


2012-12-26 1:00 PM
in reply to: #4548520

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published

mr2tony - 2012-12-26 11:25 AM  That's incorrect. What I propose (and have proposed in another thread) is that we make punishments for people who are in legal possession of a gun a deterrent.

I'm not sure what that means. I think it's a typo.

If you're caught with an illegal weapon, you go to jail for a very long time. What we have right now is a joke.

Do you know what those penalties are? They are felonies. Prison time. Harsh mandatory sentences have not seemed to slow down drug use. I'm not saying no penalties... but how much do you really think it will help to make those willing to break the law...less willing?

Right now if I get into a fight, I will not get a permit. I know that. If I do get one I will lose it. If I have a weapons or violence charge against me, that is a big problem with employers. I can have 3 DUIs, but a DV charge or a violence/weapons charge... I hope you like working in fast food. All I am saying is I have a lot of reasons right now to not do something stupid because I will loose rights and money and possibly my freedom.... if that does not work for other people already... then I'm not sure what more will do.

Also, set guidelines that say if you're an irresponsible gun owner and your gun is used in a crime or your kid accidentally shoots the neighbor because you didn't lock it up, then you will face some sort of punishment. As it's been said, there are punishments for people who leave their guns unlocked in some states, but not all. And make the punishments stiff so as to deter gun owners from being irresponsible.

How well has criminal punishments work at fixing stupid? I'm sincerely asking Tony... the idea that my gun might be used to possible kill a child on my street... I'm not sure I would ever recover from such a tradgedy... A law does not make it "worse". And obviously those that are just stupid... well again, hard to fix that. but last year what you talk about killed ~850 people... everyone of them should still be with us... but we are not talking wholesale slaghter on our streets from those that were "irresponsible".

As far as your gun being used ina crime... well they broke into my secured hose. They stole my possesions. Then they went and committed agrivated robbery.... what again was my responsibility in that? What you say is a wonderful talking point... just like politicians that get up in an election year and say they are going to get "tough on crime".... but then do nothing. Your feel good law does nothing for me bing victimized and then another person making their own decision to victimize someone else.

That should be a given, but it's not. Also, make it so people with felonies on their records can never own a gun. I honestly thought that was also a given, but it's not. Felons can own guns.

No they can't. There are felons that can have their rights reinstated. they have to go through a process, apply, have records sealed, get a lawyer, and keep you nose clean for a long enough period of time for someone to put their signature on a line saying your are safe. Not many willing to do that. But there is no automatic thing that happens... and you can forget about it if you have violence on your record. I happen to know somebody that did it. White collar crime, 15 years ago, cost him a good chunk of money to get it approved. I think it took a couple of years.

 

...

2012-12-26 1:06 PM
in reply to: #4548520

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 10:25 AM
crusevegas - 2012-12-26 12:07 PM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:46 AM
crusevegas - 2012-12-26 11:36 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 7:36 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 9:18 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:05 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 8:58 AM

Hey, if I'm a burglar, I'm happy to see that list posted!!!  Laughing 

You can't fix stupid.

Exactly! So why are gun owners up in arms about this? Ohhhh pun intended. Seriously, though, why are gun owners upset about this? I thought they'd want everybody to know they have a gun so the bad guys won't come to their houses because everybody knows if a bad guy knows you have a gun, he won't mess with you,which, of course, is why police officers never get messed with. And if owning a gun is so cool and awesome and you're such a badass for having one, why would anybody care? Isn't it a deterrent to crime?

Actually, if I was a burglar I'd be sitting around waiting for them to leave.......so I could go get their guns.  If you are a permit holder chances are you have more guns too.  Guns are easy to get rid of and bring good money for heroin junkies where I am. 

I realize I look at things a bit differently than you, Tony, I just know what I deal with every day...it's never as black and white as you'd like to think.

When did I say it was black and white? I am asking a serious question. All the gun owners on here are proud to announce what kind of gun they have in a very public forum and on facebook my friends keep posting things like `That door was locked for YOUR protection, not mine.' with a picture of a big gun. Yet when someone actually knows they have a gun, it's `Don't tell anybody!' Why? Because you're afraid someone is going to steal your gun? So you're saying that owning a gun isn't a deterrent to crime, it's just a deterrent to a certain type of crime and instead makes you more vulnerable to another type of crime?

So Tony, you should be able to tell me what I own based on what you said. So what do I own?

Just more bigoted views tony, disgusting!

There's a thread about new gun purchases and and in several threads people talk about what guns they own. And calling me bigoted is not constructive. Yes, I have strong feelings about it just as you do. Because my opinions are different than yours, I'm hypocritical and you're, what, righteous? You think everybody should share your view of the world and when they don't, they're bigoted?

I didn't call you a bigot, I said you were expressing views that were.

Take a deep breath tony and go back and look at your first post on this thread.

I think the difference in views you and I have is that I'm comfortable with people who don't want to own a firearm, you appear on the other hand feel comfortable in labeling everyone with a firearm as paranoid and would like to see their right to own them stripped.

  What I propose (and have proposed in another thread) is that we make punishments for people who are in legal possession of a gun a deterrent.

 

Hugh?

*************************

This from your first post is a bigoted statement "All the gun owners on here are proud to announce what kind of gun they have in a very public forum" 

2012-12-26 1:12 PM
in reply to: #4548580

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
crusevegas - 2012-12-26 1:06 PM

mr2tony - 2012-12-26 10:25 AM
crusevegas - 2012-12-26 12:07 PM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:46 AM
crusevegas - 2012-12-26 11:36 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 7:36 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 9:18 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:05 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 8:58 AM

Hey, if I'm a burglar, I'm happy to see that list posted!!!  Laughing 

You can't fix stupid.

Exactly! So why are gun owners up in arms about this? Ohhhh pun intended. Seriously, though, why are gun owners upset about this? I thought they'd want everybody to know they have a gun so the bad guys won't come to their houses because everybody knows if a bad guy knows you have a gun, he won't mess with you,which, of course, is why police officers never get messed with. And if owning a gun is so cool and awesome and you're such a badass for having one, why would anybody care? Isn't it a deterrent to crime?

Actually, if I was a burglar I'd be sitting around waiting for them to leave.......so I could go get their guns.  If you are a permit holder chances are you have more guns too.  Guns are easy to get rid of and bring good money for heroin junkies where I am. 

I realize I look at things a bit differently than you, Tony, I just know what I deal with every day...it's never as black and white as you'd like to think.

When did I say it was black and white? I am asking a serious question. All the gun owners on here are proud to announce what kind of gun they have in a very public forum and on facebook my friends keep posting things like `That door was locked for YOUR protection, not mine.' with a picture of a big gun. Yet when someone actually knows they have a gun, it's `Don't tell anybody!' Why? Because you're afraid someone is going to steal your gun? So you're saying that owning a gun isn't a deterrent to crime, it's just a deterrent to a certain type of crime and instead makes you more vulnerable to another type of crime?

So Tony, you should be able to tell me what I own based on what you said. So what do I own?

Just more bigoted views tony, disgusting!

There's a thread about new gun purchases and and in several threads people talk about what guns they own. And calling me bigoted is not constructive. Yes, I have strong feelings about it just as you do. Because my opinions are different than yours, I'm hypocritical and you're, what, righteous? You think everybody should share your view of the world and when they don't, they're bigoted?

I didn't call you a bigot, I said you were expressing views that were.

Take a deep breath tony and go back and look at your first post on this thread.

I think the difference in views you and I have is that I'm comfortable with people who don't want to own a firearm, you appear on the other hand feel comfortable in labeling everyone with a firearm as paranoid and would like to see their right to own them stripped.

  What I propose (and have proposed in another thread) is that we make punishments for people who are in legal possession of a gun a deterrent.

 

Hugh?

*************************

This from your first post is a bigoted statement "All the gun owners on here are proud to announce what kind of gun they have in a very public forum" 



GAH! ILLEGAL POSSESSION!

And how is that bigoted? I was referring to the people who proudly announced in other threads the guns they owned. Bigoted means to be of a strong, unbending opinion. It may have been argumentative, but it wasn't bigoted.
2012-12-26 1:38 PM
in reply to: #4548595

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 11:12 AM
crusevegas - 2012-12-26 1:06 PM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 10:25 AM
crusevegas - 2012-12-26 12:07 PM

  What I propose (and have proposed in another thread) is that we make punishments for people who are in legal possession of a gun a deterrent.

 

Hugh?


GAH! ILLEGAL POSSESSION!

Freudian slip?

Even with that that corrected here in my state is where I have a problem with it. I can openly carry a firearm in full view loaded. Now lets say I want to ride my bike to desert to go shooting. I put my unloaded gun in one back pack and my ammo in my friends back pack and guess what. I am now facing a possible felony. 

In your earlier post and I do appreciate your clarification, explanation and for the most part rational explanation of your stance.

2012-12-26 1:50 PM
in reply to: #4547960

Master
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Houston, TX
Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published

So for a moment of levity......

I bought my 5 yr old a BB gun for xmas.  Air rifle, whatever you want to call it.  I figure it's time to start teaching him about gun handling and safety etc......  So he opens it and we talk about it and I start telling him the rules of gun handling in terms that he'll understand.

Rules

1) Never shoot anyone

2) never point it at anyone (only up or down)

3) Never shoot anyone

4) only shoot at Targets

(as he understands and remembers these I'll teach him more but this will work for now).  So today they boys were talking about it with their uncle (my brother in law) and he asked them the rules and they answered:

1) Never shoot anyone

2) never point it at anyone (only up or down)

3) Never shoot anyone

4) only shoot at Walmart

 



2012-12-26 1:51 PM
in reply to: #4548520

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Veteran
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Arden Hills, MN
Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published

So what exactly are you hoping to accomplish by banning "assault rifles" and high capacity magazines?

I don't mean to be a douche here but when you say 'I personally believe nobody other than the military should be carrying something with so much destructive power' you seem to be displaying your ignorance of firearms.

There is nothing particularly powerful or destructive with the AR 15 platform.  The assault rifle ban that was in place for 10 years banned "assault rifles" based on some rather silly cosmetic type items like collapsible stock and flash suppressors - things that really have nothing to do with a weapons destructive capability. 

Do you propose reinstating that ban?  If so, what evidence do you have that it prevents gun vilolence?   If not, how exactly would you define an "assault rifle"? 

In Columbine Eric Harris fired 96 rounds from thirteen 10 round magazines from a 9mm carbine rifle that was manufactured and sold while the assault weapons ban was in place - in other words it was not an "assault rifle".  He also fired a 12 gauge shotgun 25 times.  

You can ask why I feel the need to own what I own all day long and I'll politely tell you to go pound sand all day long.   

 

2012-12-26 1:56 PM
in reply to: #4547960

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published

My response.  I heard Jews are next on the list to be published.  Get the picture?  Let's think of more fun list to publish now we are headed down this raod with it being ok and all, since it's a public record. (sarcasm intended)

That old response, if you hit a hornets nest don't act susprised when you get stung.  Good luck to the Editor.  Why do I find it ironic in thinking the Editor is probably walking around with a CC himself and probably with a bodyguard right now, armed.

What's worst, I wasn't sure just how dumb people were about guns, uses, and types, until recently.



Edited by hrliles 2012-12-26 1:57 PM
2012-12-26 2:02 PM
in reply to: #4547960

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
gr33n - 2012-12-26 12:01 AM

And so the backlash begins. As a non gun owner I'd be interested to see how gun owners feel about this please.

http://us.cnn.com/2012/12/25/us/new-york-gun-permit-map/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Back to the OP, I don't know what positives it provides and it sounds as though they may be losing some add revenue.

They have the legal right to do it but as with many things we have the right to do, it doesn't make it the right thing to do.

I think those that say it puts the homes without a "permit holder" at risk for criminals who want to avoid an armed homeowner have a point and those who say that say the permit holders could be a target for criminals specifically targeting firearms is also a possibility.

I don't think you would ever see a criminal actually file a FIA for the purpose of targeting either since they would be on record for the request.

2012-12-26 2:12 PM
in reply to: #4548652

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
hrliles - 2012-12-26 1:56 PM

My response.  I heard Jews are next on the list to be published.  Get the picture?  Let's think of more fun list to publish now we are headed down this raod with it being ok and all, since it's a public record. (sarcasm intended)

That old response, if you hit a hornets nest don't act susprised when you get stung.  Good luck to the Editor.  Why do I find it ironic in thinking the Editor is probably walking around with a CC himself and probably with a bodyguard right now, armed.

What's worst, I wasn't sure just how dumb people were about guns, uses, and types, until recently.



Why do you think he would need to be armed and have a bodyguard? If the only names he published are the names of people with the legal right to own their guns (i.e., not criminals) and legal owners of guns are responsible, law-abiding, non-violent folk, what need should there be to protect himself? Why would you need to wish him good luck?

I'm being deliberately facetious here, but you do understand how your post, on a lot of levels, contradicts what Left Brain, Powerman, GomesBolt, and lot of other pro-gun people here have been saying about people who legally own guns? In fact, LeftBrain posted a while back something like (and I'm paraphrasing) "The people with legal guns/permits aren't the ones you have to be afraid of". You seem to feel differently. Why is that?

Edited by jmk-brooklyn 2012-12-26 2:17 PM
2012-12-26 2:16 PM
in reply to: #4547960

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
Honestly, it never occurred to me to ask about guns in the home of any of the kids that my son hangs out with, nor has anyone ever asked me. Given the recent facebook postings by most of those people I think it's a pretty safe bet that there aren't any guns in their homes.

Again, I think it speaks to the difference between a culture where guns are commonplace and one where they're practically non-existant.


2012-12-26 2:21 PM
in reply to: #4548645

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
jgaither - 2012-12-26 1:50 PM

So for a moment of levity......

I bought my 5 yr old a BB gun for xmas.  Air rifle, whatever you want to call it.  I figure it's time to start teaching him about gun handling and safety etc......  So he opens it and we talk about it and I start telling him the rules of gun handling in terms that he'll understand.

Rules

1) Never shoot anyone

2) never point it at anyone (only up or down)

3) Never shoot anyone

4) only shoot at Targets

(as he understands and remembers these I'll teach him more but this will work for now).  So today they boys were talking about it with their uncle (my brother in law) and he asked them the rules and they answered:

1) Never shoot anyone

2) never point it at anyone (only up or down)

3) Never shoot anyone

4) only shoot at Walmart

 



He's going to need something a lot bigger than an air rifle to take down the average Wal-Mart shopper.
2012-12-26 2:31 PM
in reply to: #4548569

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
powerman - 2012-12-26 1:00 PM

mr2tony - 2012-12-26 11:25 AM  That's incorrect. What I propose (and have proposed in another thread) is that we make punishments for people who are in legal possession of a gun a deterrent.

I'm not sure what that means. I think it's a typo.

If you're caught with an illegal weapon, you go to jail for a very long time. What we have right now is a joke.

Do you know what those penalties are? They are felonies. Prison time. Harsh mandatory sentences have not seemed to slow down drug use. I'm not saying no penalties... but how much do you really think it will help to make those willing to break the law...less willing?

Right now if I get into a fight, I will not get a permit. I know that. If I do get one I will lose it. If I have a weapons or violence charge against me, that is a big problem with employers. I can have 3 DUIs, but a DV charge or a violence/weapons charge... I hope you like working in fast food. All I am saying is I have a lot of reasons right now to not do something stupid because I will loose rights and money and possibly my freedom.... if that does not work for other people already... then I'm not sure what more will do.

Also, set guidelines that say if you're an irresponsible gun owner and your gun is used in a crime or your kid accidentally shoots the neighbor because you didn't lock it up, then you will face some sort of punishment. As it's been said, there are punishments for people who leave their guns unlocked in some states, but not all. And make the punishments stiff so as to deter gun owners from being irresponsible.

How well has criminal punishments work at fixing stupid? I'm sincerely asking Tony... the idea that my gun might be used to possible kill a child on my street... I'm not sure I would ever recover from such a tradgedy... A law does not make it "worse". And obviously those that are just stupid... well again, hard to fix that. but last year what you talk about killed ~850 people... everyone of them should still be with us... but we are not talking wholesale slaghter on our streets from those that were "irresponsible".

As far as your gun being used ina crime... well they broke into my secured hose. They stole my possesions. Then they went and committed agrivated robbery.... what again was my responsibility in that? What you say is a wonderful talking point... just like politicians that get up in an election year and say they are going to get "tough on crime".... but then do nothing. Your feel good law does nothing for me bing victimized and then another person making their own decision to victimize someone else.

That should be a given, but it's not. Also, make it so people with felonies on their records can never own a gun. I honestly thought that was also a given, but it's not. Felons can own guns.

No they can't. There are felons that can have their rights reinstated. they have to go through a process, apply, have records sealed, get a lawyer, and keep you nose clean for a long enough period of time for someone to put their signature on a line saying your are safe. Not many willing to do that. But there is no automatic thing that happens... and you can forget about it if you have violence on your record. I happen to know somebody that did it. White collar crime, 15 years ago, cost him a good chunk of money to get it approved. I think it took a couple of years.

 

...



1. Typo. I meant ILLEGAL possession of a gun.

2. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but are you saying that we shouldn't have laws or perhaps we should have light sentences for people who are caught with illegal weapons?

Laws are put in place to deter people from doing something that could harm them or others, right? Speed laws are put in place to keep people at or under a certain speed limit so they don't go 120 miles an hour into another car. Sure, people speed all the time. In fact they break laws everyday, so should we just do away with speed limits? What about murder? Should we just say `Well murderers are going to murder, so why have laws against it?' I don't understand your argument that laws don't prevent crime.

And yes, I do think having harsher penalties for possessing an illegal firearm would do more to deter people from owning illegal weapons than lighter penalties.

3. You can't regulate stupid but you sure can jail and fine people who do stupid things like leave out their gun for their kid to shoot the neighbor. Again, knowing they may face significant jail time and a fine if the neighbor kid gets ahold of his gun and mows down 20 people may be enough of a reason for people to lock up their guns. Your `Let's not punish people who do stupid things that result in someone's tragic death.' theory doesn't quite sit too well with me. We do it with parents who provide alcohol to minors who are subsequently involved in accidents. Why not with guns?

4. If someone steals your gun out of your locked safe from your locked house, then you won't have liability because you performed due-diligence and didn't just leave it sitting out for anybody to take. If you leave your guns sitting on your kitchen counter, then, well, that's irresponsible if you ask me, and you deserve to be punished for your stupidity.

5. Felons can own guns again after a short period of time, depending on the state's laws.
2012-12-26 2:41 PM
in reply to: #4548701

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 3:31 PM
powerman - 2012-12-26 1:00 PM

mr2tony - 2012-12-26 11:25 AM  That's incorrect. What I propose (and have proposed in another thread) is that we make punishments for people who are in legal possession of a gun a deterrent.

I'm not sure what that means. I think it's a typo.

If you're caught with an illegal weapon, you go to jail for a very long time. What we have right now is a joke.

Do you know what those penalties are? They are felonies. Prison time. Harsh mandatory sentences have not seemed to slow down drug use. I'm not saying no penalties... but how much do you really think it will help to make those willing to break the law...less willing?

Right now if I get into a fight, I will not get a permit. I know that. If I do get one I will lose it. If I have a weapons or violence charge against me, that is a big problem with employers. I can have 3 DUIs, but a DV charge or a violence/weapons charge... I hope you like working in fast food. All I am saying is I have a lot of reasons right now to not do something stupid because I will loose rights and money and possibly my freedom.... if that does not work for other people already... then I'm not sure what more will do.

Also, set guidelines that say if you're an irresponsible gun owner and your gun is used in a crime or your kid accidentally shoots the neighbor because you didn't lock it up, then you will face some sort of punishment. As it's been said, there are punishments for people who leave their guns unlocked in some states, but not all. And make the punishments stiff so as to deter gun owners from being irresponsible.

How well has criminal punishments work at fixing stupid? I'm sincerely asking Tony... the idea that my gun might be used to possible kill a child on my street... I'm not sure I would ever recover from such a tradgedy... A law does not make it "worse". And obviously those that are just stupid... well again, hard to fix that. but last year what you talk about killed ~850 people... everyone of them should still be with us... but we are not talking wholesale slaghter on our streets from those that were "irresponsible".

As far as your gun being used ina crime... well they broke into my secured hose. They stole my possesions. Then they went and committed agrivated robbery.... what again was my responsibility in that? What you say is a wonderful talking point... just like politicians that get up in an election year and say they are going to get "tough on crime".... but then do nothing. Your feel good law does nothing for me bing victimized and then another person making their own decision to victimize someone else.

That should be a given, but it's not. Also, make it so people with felonies on their records can never own a gun. I honestly thought that was also a given, but it's not. Felons can own guns.

No they can't. There are felons that can have their rights reinstated. they have to go through a process, apply, have records sealed, get a lawyer, and keep you nose clean for a long enough period of time for someone to put their signature on a line saying your are safe. Not many willing to do that. But there is no automatic thing that happens... and you can forget about it if you have violence on your record. I happen to know somebody that did it. White collar crime, 15 years ago, cost him a good chunk of money to get it approved. I think it took a couple of years.

 

...

1. Typo. I meant ILLEGAL possession of a gun. 2. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but are you saying that we shouldn't have laws or perhaps we should have light sentences for people who are caught with illegal weapons? Laws are put in place to deter people from doing something that could harm them or others, right? Speed laws are put in place to keep people at or under a certain speed limit so they don't go 120 miles an hour into another car. Sure, people speed all the time. In fact they break laws everyday, so should we just do away with speed limits? What about murder? Should we just say `Well murderers are going to murder, so why have laws against it?' I don't understand your argument that laws don't prevent crime. And yes, I do think having harsher penalties for possessing an illegal firearm would do more to deter people from owning illegal weapons than lighter penalties. 3. You can't regulate stupid but you sure can jail and fine people who do stupid things like leave out their gun for their kid to shoot the neighbor. Again, knowing they may face significant jail time and a fine if the neighbor kid gets ahold of his gun and mows down 20 people may be enough of a reason for people to lock up their guns. Your `Let's not punish people who do stupid things that result in someone's tragic death.' theory doesn't quite sit too well with me. We do it with parents who provide alcohol to minors who are subsequently involved in accidents. Why not with guns? 4. If someone steals your gun out of your locked safe from your locked house, then you won't have liability because you performed due-diligence and didn't just leave it sitting out for anybody to take. If you leave your guns sitting on your kitchen counter, then, well, that's irresponsible if you ask me, and you deserve to be punished for your stupidity.

Excuse me how exactly is having someone breaking into my locked house me leaving a gun sitting out for anybody to take?

Shall we prosecute anyone who leaves their car in the driveway to have it stolen and used in the commission of a crime?

 

5. Felons can own guns again after a short period of time, depending on the state's laws.



Edited by trinnas 2012-12-26 2:41 PM
2012-12-26 3:00 PM
in reply to: #4548719

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
trinnas - 2012-12-26 2:41 PM

mr2tony - 2012-12-26 3:31 PM
powerman - 2012-12-26 1:00 PM

mr2tony - 2012-12-26 11:25 AM  That's incorrect. What I propose (and have proposed in another thread) is that we make punishments for people who are in legal possession of a gun a deterrent.

I'm not sure what that means. I think it's a typo.

If you're caught with an illegal weapon, you go to jail for a very long time. What we have right now is a joke.

Do you know what those penalties are? They are felonies. Prison time. Harsh mandatory sentences have not seemed to slow down drug use. I'm not saying no penalties... but how much do you really think it will help to make those willing to break the law...less willing?

Right now if I get into a fight, I will not get a permit. I know that. If I do get one I will lose it. If I have a weapons or violence charge against me, that is a big problem with employers. I can have 3 DUIs, but a DV charge or a violence/weapons charge... I hope you like working in fast food. All I am saying is I have a lot of reasons right now to not do something stupid because I will loose rights and money and possibly my freedom.... if that does not work for other people already... then I'm not sure what more will do.

Also, set guidelines that say if you're an irresponsible gun owner and your gun is used in a crime or your kid accidentally shoots the neighbor because you didn't lock it up, then you will face some sort of punishment. As it's been said, there are punishments for people who leave their guns unlocked in some states, but not all. And make the punishments stiff so as to deter gun owners from being irresponsible.

How well has criminal punishments work at fixing stupid? I'm sincerely asking Tony... the idea that my gun might be used to possible kill a child on my street... I'm not sure I would ever recover from such a tradgedy... A law does not make it "worse". And obviously those that are just stupid... well again, hard to fix that. but last year what you talk about killed ~850 people... everyone of them should still be with us... but we are not talking wholesale slaghter on our streets from those that were "irresponsible".

As far as your gun being used ina crime... well they broke into my secured hose. They stole my possesions. Then they went and committed agrivated robbery.... what again was my responsibility in that? What you say is a wonderful talking point... just like politicians that get up in an election year and say they are going to get "tough on crime".... but then do nothing. Your feel good law does nothing for me bing victimized and then another person making their own decision to victimize someone else.

That should be a given, but it's not. Also, make it so people with felonies on their records can never own a gun. I honestly thought that was also a given, but it's not. Felons can own guns.

No they can't. There are felons that can have their rights reinstated. they have to go through a process, apply, have records sealed, get a lawyer, and keep you nose clean for a long enough period of time for someone to put their signature on a line saying your are safe. Not many willing to do that. But there is no automatic thing that happens... and you can forget about it if you have violence on your record. I happen to know somebody that did it. White collar crime, 15 years ago, cost him a good chunk of money to get it approved. I think it took a couple of years.

 

...

1. Typo. I meant ILLEGAL possession of a gun. 2. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but are you saying that we shouldn't have laws or perhaps we should have light sentences for people who are caught with illegal weapons? Laws are put in place to deter people from doing something that could harm them or others, right? Speed laws are put in place to keep people at or under a certain speed limit so they don't go 120 miles an hour into another car. Sure, people speed all the time. In fact they break laws everyday, so should we just do away with speed limits? What about murder? Should we just say `Well murderers are going to murder, so why have laws against it?' I don't understand your argument that laws don't prevent crime. And yes, I do think having harsher penalties for possessing an illegal firearm would do more to deter people from owning illegal weapons than lighter penalties. 3. You can't regulate stupid but you sure can jail and fine people who do stupid things like leave out their gun for their kid to shoot the neighbor. Again, knowing they may face significant jail time and a fine if the neighbor kid gets ahold of his gun and mows down 20 people may be enough of a reason for people to lock up their guns. Your `Let's not punish people who do stupid things that result in someone's tragic death.' theory doesn't quite sit too well with me. We do it with parents who provide alcohol to minors who are subsequently involved in accidents. Why not with guns? 4. If someone steals your gun out of your locked safe from your locked house, then you won't have liability because you performed due-diligence and didn't just leave it sitting out for anybody to take. If you leave your guns sitting on your kitchen counter, then, well, that's irresponsible if you ask me, and you deserve to be punished for your stupidity.

Excuse me how exactly is having someone breaking into my locked house me leaving a gun sitting out for anybody to take?

Shall we prosecute anyone who leaves their car in the driveway to have it stolen and used in the commission of a crime?

 

5. Felons can own guns again after a short period of time, depending on the state's laws.



As not to rehash the age-old gun vs. car debate that seems to only pop up when it's convenient, I will just say that it's my opine that leaving your gun unlocked in your house is plain stupid, and if you don't have enough sense to lock it up, then you should face harsh penalties if you don't take best practices to store it responsibly, it's stolen and used in the commission of a crime. If you do lock it up in a safe and lock your house, then someone steals the safe and gets the gun, then uses it, then you wouldn't be held liable.

It just doesn't seem to be that controversial to me to actually have penalties for people who are in possession of a gun illegally or are irresponsible with their guns. It seems people are so FOR guns that they actually forget that owning one is a big responsibility. I had coffee on Saturday with my buddy Louis, who's a member of CPD SWAT and he said `People often forget how much responsibility goes with carrying a gun.' He said he's not worried about people owning guns because he's not a lawmaker and assumes ``everybody has a gun,'' but he agreed that there should be stricter penalties for people who are illegally possessing them. And he said felons should NEVER be allowed to have a gun since they're the ones he usually has trouble with.
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